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Why is it that more Democrats don't see that Obama is trying to destroy America?

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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-26-11 06:12 PM
Original message
Why is it that more Democrats don't see that Obama is trying to destroy America?
I mean, Michael Hudson says Obama is a "demagogue" who is "delivering his constituency to his campaign contributors on Wall Street"

Krugman says the "cult" of centrism is destroying America and that Obama is a "centrist president actually a moderate conservative president."

Why aren't more Democrats aware of the danger that Obama represents?

Or are these two full of shit?

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lamp_shade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-26-11 06:15 PM
Response to Original message
1. They both come here to get their talking points.
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monmouth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-26-11 06:15 PM
Response to Original message
2. We have you to make us aware. We're so lucky....n/t
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-26-11 06:17 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. Was that sarcasm?
If so, here's a thought. Don't click on links you 'might' find bothersome. Easy!
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DFab420 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-26-11 06:31 PM
Response to Reply #6
13. +1 but but then how will we get to post snappy cheeky comebacks if they don't click??
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jaxx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-26-11 06:15 PM
Response to Original message
3. Those two are full of shit.
K&R
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Fire1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-26-11 06:26 PM
Response to Reply #3
9. True dat!! n/t
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Kahuna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-26-11 06:36 PM
Response to Reply #3
21. +1
:hi:
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arcane1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-26-11 06:16 PM
Response to Original message
4. He *is* a centrist president
It's hard to argue about that.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-26-11 06:19 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
DFab420 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-26-11 06:29 PM
Response to Reply #7
12. It's so clear now, how could I miss it!!?!?
I mean except for his actions on DADT, Economic Recovery, Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, immigration, foriegn policy and hate crime laws he is EXACTLY in between Reagan and Bush II!!!!

...

:rofl:
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Fire1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-26-11 06:35 PM
Response to Reply #12
19. Cause if this is what a centrist looks like, I'll take it! n/t
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DFab420 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-26-11 06:36 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. NooOO!OO! If you take it you will DESTROY AMERICA!!! AHHH!
How could you!!! :cry: :cry:


:rofl:
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Fire1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-26-11 06:28 PM
Response to Reply #4
11. He never said he was anything else! He self identifies as a
"new democrat!" What's the problem?? :shrug:
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treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-27-11 01:39 AM
Response to Reply #4
50. Speak to a right winger
Who claim the President is a socialist or even a communist.

I envy DUers who live surrounded by liberals but then I see that they wind up apart from reality.
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Cosmocat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-27-11 07:10 AM
Response to Reply #4
51. He would not have vetoed universal coverage ...
He is moderate in some ways, no doubt ...

He can only go as far left, however, as congress is capable of going.

You think he would have vetoed full out universal coverage?

He signed the bill congress BARELY got him.

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Liberal_Stalwart71 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-27-11 06:41 PM
Response to Reply #4
68. Right! And he never presented himself otherwise. If you supported
him without knowing or choosing to ignore this fact, that's your fault, not his.
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Akoto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-26-11 06:17 PM
Response to Original message
5. As I've said before, Krugman's opinion chages with the wind. n/t
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Ikonoklast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-27-11 03:51 PM
Response to Reply #5
65. Not really. He still loves the Clintons.
If Hillary was president, and had done the exact same things Mr. Obama has done, Krugman would be over the moon fawning over her achievements.

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Enrique Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-26-11 06:24 PM
Response to Original message
8. because they have fallen for the Obama brand n/t
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-26-11 06:34 PM
Original message
So you're saying he is trying to destroy the country
Edited on Tue Jul-26-11 06:34 PM by ProSense
and people are too blind to see it?

What exactly has he destroyed?

Krugman says:

"Once again, health reform his only major change to government was modeled on Republican plans, indeed plans coming from the Heritage Foundation"

There it is again, Krugman's support for health care reform.

Health care reform the "only major change," not the CFPB, ending DADT, not this or his two SCOTUS appointments, only health care reform.

Krugman's past quotes on health care reform:

"Guys, this is a major program to aid lower- and lower-middle-income families. How is that not a big progressive victory?"

Healthcare: victory for America's soul

So the plan that was "modeled on Republican plans" also delivered "a big progressive victory"?

Didn't Krugman use the "cult" word during the primary also?
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Enrique Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-26-11 06:37 PM
Response to Original message
22. you added "trying"
I can't read his mind. I don't know what he's trying to do, but i thought the Bush tax cuts were destroying the country when Bush did them, and I think they are destroying the country now. Right now, this debt they're talking about, came from the Bush/Obama tax cuts.
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DFab420 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-26-11 06:40 PM
Response to Reply #22
25. Umm.. I'd say it's squarely on Bush's shoulders this time around
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-26-11 06:42 PM
Response to Reply #22
28. Yeah,
the Bush tax cuts were a bad idea and 15 Democrats in Congress voted against changes to the deal, which included things that were important to the President: expanding Medicaid funding, extending unemployment and the EITC, and providing other aid.

I suspect praise for killing the tax cuts would have lasted long enough for his persistent critics to formulate a meme that he cut Medicaid, unemployment benefits and raised taxes on the middle class, you know, breaking a promise!

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Liberal_Stalwart71 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-27-11 06:49 PM
Response to Reply #8
69. Actually, he was a huge Hillary supporter and something closer to a PUMA
from the beginning which is baffling! He rails against centrism and Blue Dog conservatism and yet supports the Clintons, the very embracers of the DLC philosophy. That shows me two things: One, Krugman is generally smart but is full of shit when it comes to Obama. And two, Krugman has no clue about governing. He has never held political office and is naive about how government works!

I still like Krugman, but I often feel that he is disingenuous when it comes to the president. Also, his opinion changes like a finger held to the wind after being licked.
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DFab420 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-26-11 06:27 PM
Response to Original message
10. I'll take full of shit for $200 Alex...
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Speck Tater Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-26-11 06:32 PM
Response to Original message
14. It's Tuesday. "Deadliest Catch" is on. Ask me again tomorrow. nt
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CakeGrrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-26-11 06:32 PM
Response to Original message
15. I keep asking why the Primary challenge savior is taking so long to emerge
if that's true.
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flamingdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-26-11 06:33 PM
Response to Original message
16. Die zwei sind voll von Scheisse! nt
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flamingdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-26-11 06:34 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. Estan repleto de mierda, los dos nt
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-26-11 06:34 PM
Response to Original message
17. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Kahuna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-26-11 06:38 PM
Response to Reply #17
23. You forgot to add...
:tinfoilhat:
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DFab420 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-26-11 06:38 PM
Response to Reply #17
24. Perhaps it isn't coordinated? Perhaps it's that post sarcastic satirical posts
that sound hyperbolic is just a way to point out how sometimes, any side of an argument, can get a bit silly...

I mean a whole column about how Centrists are a cult out to destroy to fabric of America deserves a bit of incredulity and sarcasm...
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CreekDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-26-11 06:40 PM
Response to Reply #24
26. that's fine, but that column is not where most Obama critics on the left are
certainly not this one. :shrug:
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DFab420 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-26-11 06:42 PM
Response to Reply #26
27. Ok, so then you know that this post, as well as the OP wasn't directed at you then...
I mean, if it isn't your opinion, why are you upset someone has a sarcastic point of view about it ya?
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CreekDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-26-11 06:46 PM
Response to Reply #27
30. because i've been talked to as if i believed things like that
right here in River City.

so while it shouldn't have been aimed at me, i have good reason to think it probably was anyway.
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Wait Wut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-26-11 06:59 PM
Response to Reply #17
31. Is that a problem?
I realize "your side" never uses sarcasm to attempt to prove a point, but we just enjoy it so. Not only that, but our contract specifies that we must use sarcasm daily in order to remain a member of "The Club".

Oops. I forgot the first rule of "The Club". :hide:
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CreekDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-26-11 07:06 PM
Response to Reply #31
35. there's nothing wrong with it
i'm simply curious.
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killbotfactory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-26-11 07:01 PM
Response to Reply #17
34. "Are you being sarcastic, dude"
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-26-11 06:46 PM
Response to Original message
29. Deleted sub-thread
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-26-11 06:59 PM
Response to Original message
32. Plenty of Democrats are aware of it - thus, the many threads on DU.
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killbotfactory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-26-11 06:59 PM
Response to Original message
33. The "professional left" is looking more and more like a fifth column
"Hey, I know! Let's fight the republicans, a well funded, organized, and ruthless political enemy, by petty infighting, nitpicking and discounting the actions of damn near every powerful democratic politician, and discouraging the left from participating in politics altogether with blind lazy cynicism directed solely at the only political party that is able to stand up to them! Yeah, that's the ticket!"
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flamingdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-26-11 11:48 PM
Response to Reply #33
43. +1
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-27-11 01:10 AM
Response to Reply #33
47. +1
It's hilarious really.
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JoePhilly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-27-11 11:43 AM
Response to Reply #33
58. +1
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Ignis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-27-11 03:27 PM
Response to Reply #33
63. So you're accusing Maddow, Olbermann, et al. of treason?
Can I get some of that shark-jumping blend you're smoking? :smoke:
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killbotfactory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-27-11 05:56 PM
Response to Reply #63
66. Where'd you get treason from what I said?
Anyway, no, I smoked it all.
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Ignis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-27-11 06:18 PM
Response to Reply #66
67. You do understand what "5th column" means, right?
You're not accusing the "professional left" of acting as they do out of clumsiness, or ignorance, or ideology. You're accusing them of deliberately lying, rat-fucking, and subverting the democratic process of the United States.

Is that what you really intended to do?
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killbotfactory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-27-11 07:35 PM
Response to Reply #67
70. I think a lot of them are subverting left wing causes, yes
Edited on Wed Jul-27-11 07:36 PM by killbotfactory
Some through ignorance, some to sell papers, or books, or drive up rating for their website, some because they are tied to right wing interests and encouraged to do specifically that.
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killbotfactory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-27-11 07:43 PM
Response to Reply #67
71. Anyway...
fifth column
n
1. (Historical Terms) (originally) a group of Falangist sympathizers in Madrid during the Spanish Civil War who were prepared to join the four columns of insurgents marching on the city
2. any group of hostile or subversive infiltrators; an enemy in one's midst
fifth columnist n

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elleng Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-26-11 07:06 PM
Response to Original message
36. Hate to say this about Krugman because I've admired him in the past,
but he's wrong to fault President Obama.

As for being a 'centrist' president, if he were so, I would not find fault. (Sorry, DUers) Its just logical, the center is where its at, and expecially in these divisive times, a leader must appeal to the center. 'Cult?' I don't understand that. Think about it, how many people do each of us know who are at or near an extreme?
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Number23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-26-11 07:09 PM
Response to Original message
37. Who the hell is Michael Hudson?
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yellowcanine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-27-11 11:18 AM
Response to Reply #37
57. And why do we care what he thinks?
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indepat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-26-11 08:03 PM
Response to Original message
38. BHO isn't trying to destroy America: he is trying to solve America's problems with RW solutions that
heretofore have only largely served to: exacerbate the concentration of wealth among a precious few; further widen the inequality of income; increase Federal largess to the already uber-wealthy and large highly profitable corporations; promote a cozy relationship with Wall Street banksters who precipitated the almost complete financial meltdown which was stemmed only by the Federal government's infusion of trillions of dollars to stabilize the system; keep a bogey man ever-present to swell MIC funding as two wars continue in seeming perpetuity; and in a period when America has fallen to the bottom/near the bottom in almost all quality-of life ranking factors, offer trillions of dollars in cuts in social security, Medicare, and Medicaid, tantamount to funding his own tax cuts for the uber-wealthy who have sucked mightily at the public teat for most of the last 30 years. BHO is not trying to destroy America, but if his budget deficit proposals become law, a sizable chunk of the New Deal and the Great Society will have been eviscerated. In the meantime, almost everything this Congress has done exacerbates the dire unemployment situation and nothing is being overtly done to reduce the near-depression levels of unemployment as large corporation sit on approximately $2 trillion in cash and pay an overall minuscule effective income tax rate. :patriot:
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-27-11 12:47 AM
Response to Reply #38
46. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
rasputin1952 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-27-11 08:37 AM
Response to Reply #46
53. Let's see...
Harding, Coolidge, Reagan, Andrew Johnson, bush were somehow than president Obama?

Read a little history before making statements like this please.

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boppers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-27-11 09:36 PM
Response to Reply #38
72. Dayum. If you had just added "running dog" in there somewhere, I'd have a bingo.
Maybe next time.
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MadMaddie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-26-11 08:54 PM
Response to Original message
39. Um Pat $500 for those two are full of shit...
What is their alternative? Crazy Ass Bachmann, Pat Buchanan, Boehner, Rick Perry?

These two are idiots...

Yawn, what have those two done to help the Democratic cause? Sit on their asses and bitch and whine...why don't they run for office...what?
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Phx_Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-26-11 09:43 PM
Response to Original message
40. They sound like emos and they're full of shit.
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Liberal_Stalwart71 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-26-11 11:05 PM
Response to Original message
41. I love Krugman, but I've noticed two things: First, he was pretty much a PUMA
during the primaries. He went in hard on Obama even when it was unclear that O would beat Hillary. The second thing that pisses me off about Krugman, who again, I love, is that he has no clue about the governing process. It's so easy to sit down and write op-Ed's about what should have happened, but that's NOT how it happens here in D.C. I've lived in this city now for nearly 20 years! That's how it works!!!
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flamingdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-26-11 11:47 PM
Response to Reply #41
42. For a supposed brainiac he is an IDIOT 51% of the time nt
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rury Donating Member (629 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-26-11 11:58 PM
Response to Original message
44. They're full of shit
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craigmatic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-27-11 12:02 AM
Response to Original message
45. Alot of us are caught up on party labels instead of actual policy positions or clear ideology.
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Union Scribe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-27-11 01:12 AM
Response to Original message
48. Original commentary isn't your strong suit.
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treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-27-11 01:38 AM
Response to Original message
49. This Krugman person is weird
Or illogical. Every country is run by its centrists. Why are extremists better, just because they are extreme? Is the Tea Party better than the "centrists."

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TheKentuckian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-27-11 02:22 PM
Response to Reply #49
62. "Centrists" are not at the center of the political spectrum but rather an ideology
seemingly devoted to corporate empowerment, right wing fiscal policies, an whatever the polls say on social issues as long as public opinion does not cross the will of corporate sponsors.

I see no evidence that they have any inoculation from extremism.
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VeryConfused Donating Member (725 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-27-11 07:14 AM
Response to Original message
52. One has to be blinded by extreme unthinking ideology to see
what's not there.
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Mass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-27-11 08:45 AM
Response to Original message
54. K&U
I have not read Hudson and suspect I would dislike it, but you are distorting Krugman's argument because he does not bow to Obama 100% of the time.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-27-11 11:13 AM
Response to Reply #54
56. "but you are distorting Krugman's argument "
Krugman spends most of his articles labeling the President as part of the problem. Here he says centrism is a "moral failure" that's destroying the country. Then he labels the President a centrist, worse a "moderate conservative."

He then says:

"You have to ask, what would it take for these news organizations and pundits to actually break with the convention that both sides are equally at fault? This is the clearest, starkest situation one can imagine short of civil war. If this wont do it, nothing will."

If he intended to make the case that both sides are not at fault, he failed. Instead, he fed it, and he used the President to do it.

Centrism is Bill Clinton's thing, the DLC. It isn't associated with Republicans. Basically, he is saying that both sides are the same. The DLC is Hillary Clinton's thing, and he supported her, something he references often. Would he ever say that Hillary Clinton, who was a member of the DLC leadership, is a part of a cult that is a "moral failure" or even imply it? Has he ever?

It's patently absurd to claim that the President is a "moderate conservative," even to make a point about the media pushing for a more centrist President.


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Mimosa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-27-11 11:06 AM
Response to Original message
55. Krugman's commentary made sense
Krugman did not say Obama wants to destroy America. I didn't bother reading the other commentary since I've got things to do.

For you to imply Krugman said Obama is 'destroying' America is disingenuous. What he did say is nuanced. Obama is compliant with the agenda of America's corporations and Wall Street. He seems to believe in 'trickle down' economics. Krugman doesn't.
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sudopod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-27-11 12:56 PM
Response to Original message
59. I blame the Illuminati and the Shriners. nt
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zacherystaylor Donating Member (97 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-27-11 01:19 PM
Response to Original message
60. Because those that do see are no longer Democrats?
Perhaps those that think for themselves became independents and choose to vote for people that represent the public even if they don't collect the appropriate amount of bribes, often refereed to as campaign contributions. The problem is that there aren't too many of these people; either that or the Mass Media is badly misrepresenting the way people vote.

Regardless of why I gotta laugh when I see an ad for Barack Obama in your post which I'm sure you didn't choose to put there. :rofl:
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-27-11 01:27 PM
Response to Original message
61. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
creon Donating Member (723 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-27-11 03:43 PM
Response to Original message
64. We will get by
This is not the first time that someone has said that US is being destroyed.

Obama does seem to have a lot of enemies. I wonder if he is losing sleep over it.
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Lil Missy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-11 07:02 AM
Response to Original message
73. He's trying to destroy America? Really?
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Jakes Progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-11 09:09 AM
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74. Why is it that fewer and fewer Democrats are jumping on the all-praise, whatever bandwagon.
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