Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

"In Defense of Bradley Manning!" (This is NOT Glenn Greenwald)

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » General Discussion: Presidency Donate to DU
 
KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 06:51 PM
Original message
"In Defense of Bradley Manning!" (This is NOT Glenn Greenwald)
http://rethinkafghanistan.com/blog/2011/02/tomgram-chas... /

Why Bradley Manning Is a Patriot, Not a Criminal
An Opening Statement for the Defense of Private Manning
By Chase Madar

Bradley Manning, a 23-year-old from Crescent, Oklahoma, enlisted in the U.S. military in 2007 to give something back to his country and, he hoped, the world.

For the past seven months, Army Private First Class Manning has been held in solitary confinement in the Marine Corps brig in Quantico, Virginia. Twenty-five thousand other Americans are also in prolonged solitary confinement, but the conditions of Mannings pre-trial detention have been sufficiently brutal for the United Nations Special Rapporteur on Torture to announce an investigation.

Pfc. Manning is alleged to have obtained documents, both classified and unclassified, from the Department of Defense and the State Department via the Internet and provided them to WikiLeaks. (That alleged is important because the federal informant who fingered Manning, Adrian Lamo, is a felon convincted of computer-hacking crimes. He was also involuntarily committed to a psychiatric institution in the month before he levelled his accusation. All of this makes him a less than reliable witness.) At any rate, the records allegedly downloaded by Manning revealed clear instances of war crimes committed by U.S. troops in Iraq and Afghanistan, widespread torture committed by the Iraqi authorities with the full knowledge of the U.S. military, previously unknown estimates of the number of Iraqi civilians killed at U.S. military checkpoints, and the massive Iraqi civilian death toll caused by the American invasion.

For bringing to light this critical but long-suppressed information, Pfc. Manning has been treated not as a whistleblower, but as a criminal and a spy. He is charged with violating not only Army regulations but also the Espionage Act of 1917, making him the fifth American to be charged under the act for leaking classified documents to the media. A court-martial will likely be convened in the spring or summer.

MUCH MORE AT:
http://rethinkafghanistan.com/blog/2011/02/tomgram-chas...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
Mimosa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 06:59 PM
Response to Original message
1. Very thoughtful points, KoKo
There are people who don't remember the My Lai massacre, but the points raised in the article reminded me of it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Lai_Massacre

I don't care who tells us about wrongdoing done 'in our name'. I believe we need to know about war crimes.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 07:49 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. I just wish more folks here would read "other evidence." It's mounting up..
but, thank you for reading. So, many folks don't read "other opinions" these days, and we are the worse off as a society because of this. We cannot fight with each other anymore. We need to READ, READ and READ! But, then...I know I'm "old school" about reading everything you can get your hands on..and that there's no time for much with all of us working 24/7 ...just to keep afloat and ahead of the "Bill Collector.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DeSwiss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 07:03 PM
Response to Original message
2. And Obama "owns" this. K&R - n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
doc03 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 07:03 PM
Response to Original message
3. The ends don't justify the means. If he released classified
documents he is a traitor. Do you know that there weren't some of our military killed as a direct result of his actions? Our government has to keep some things secret and it is not the job of a lowly PFC to decide what is important. If he is found guilty of the charges he should be shot period, that's what traitors get.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Tarheel_Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 11:20 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. He didn't need to do it the way it was done. He could have asked for
whistle blower protection. It was premeditated, and malicious. And I hope you're wrong, I hope no one was killed as a result.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NavyDem Donating Member (284 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-26-11 12:39 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. The way it should have been done...
Title 10, U.S.C Section 1034

The act protects a military service member who makes a "protected communication" regarding a violation of law or regulation. The superiors of these service members are prohibited from retaliating against the service member making the protected statements.<2> The Congressional statute is implemented by Department of Defense Directive 7050.06 (July 23, 2007), which protects:
(1) Any lawful communication to a member of Congress or an Inspector General. <3>


(2) A communication which the Armed Forces member reasonably believes evidences a violation of law or regulation, including sexual harassment or unlawful discrimination, mismanagement, a gross waste of funds or other resources, an abuse of authority, or a substantial and specific danger to public health or safety.<4>

But the communications must be made to one of the following:



(1) A member of Congress, an Inspector General, or a member of a Department of Defense audit, inspection, investigation, or law enforcement organization, or


(2) Any other person or organization (including any person or organization in the chain of command) designated under Component regulations or other established administrative procedures to receive such complaints.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Raine1967 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-26-11 08:56 AM
Response to Reply #8
22. That very interesting info, could you give a link to it?
This is the closest I could find: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode10/usc_sec...

Thanks.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NavyDem Donating Member (284 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-26-11 07:17 PM
Response to Reply #22
40. Link
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Azathoth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-26-11 12:40 PM
Response to Reply #8
38. The problem is that only pertains to actual whistleblowers, and Manning isn't a whistleblower
He didn't even read what he was stealing. His goal was to stick it to the man, so obviously "proper channels" were not a viable option for him.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NavyDem Donating Member (284 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-26-11 07:17 PM
Response to Reply #38
39. This is WHY Manning is not a whistle blower.
He could have gone outside his chain of command to report any instance that he thought was a war crime. You are right though, proper channels and none of the other conversations happen IMO.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tekisui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-26-11 07:54 AM
Response to Reply #7
12. No one has been killed, no one is at trisk of being killed.
That is propaganda bullshit to protect the criminals
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tekisui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-26-11 07:53 AM
Response to Reply #3
11. The blood thirst is strong with this one.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
krabigirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-26-11 10:12 AM
Response to Reply #3
27. He is a hero to me. Nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 07:16 PM
Response to Original message
4. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 07:51 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. It's sad what you say..but it's probably the truth of it.
Our Country and it's Morals have declined so badly we think "Peace is War" and "Torture is Justice."

I don't really know how to navigate through stuff like that. I refuse to give into such weird stuff, though.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Azathoth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-26-11 07:03 AM
Response to Original message
9. Calling Manning a "whistleblower" utterly demeans and impoverishes the term
Manning was not "blowing the whistle" on anything. He was a malcontent who was basically forced to enlist in the army by a father who was fed up with his behavior/attitude problems. Instead of shaping up, his attitude got the best of him and he eventually decided to get even with the mean people giving him orders. So he walked in to work one day and indiscriminately downloaded every document with a "classified" stamp he could find from every department he could access and he handed everything over to Wikileaks. And then he hopped on a chat server and boasted about how he had stuck it to the man.

Calling him a "whistleblower" demeans all those men and women who sacrificed their careers and risked jail in order to actually blow the whistle on something important.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tekisui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-26-11 07:55 AM
Response to Reply #9
13. He exposed crimes he knew about. Sounds like a whistle blower to me.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Azathoth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-26-11 07:59 AM
Response to Reply #13
14. Really? Which crime did he "expose" that he knew about?
And if he intended to expose that particular crime, why did he steal half a million documents not related to it?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tekisui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-26-11 08:03 AM
Response to Reply #14
15. Because he knew more crimes were in there.
Edited on Tue Apr-26-11 08:03 AM by tekisui
And there are. More lies and criminal acts are released everyday. Good on Manning for the exposure.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Azathoth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-26-11 08:06 AM
Response to Reply #15
16. How did he know there were more crimes "in there"? He didn't even read the files.
Edited on Tue Apr-26-11 08:07 AM by Azathoth
Hell, even Wikileaks hasn't read most of them, by their own admission.

What you meant to say is "Good on him for trying to indiscriminately undermine the United States government!"
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tekisui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-26-11 08:08 AM
Response to Reply #16
17. Whatever it takes to end an empire. Little by little.
This is one piece of that. Exposure of crimes and lies. He knew how they operate, he knew there would be crimes. More to come!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Azathoth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-26-11 08:10 AM
Response to Reply #17
18. Well, at least you're honest about it. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tekisui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-26-11 08:16 AM
Response to Reply #18
19. I love my country, but hate its imperialism and never-ending war.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Azathoth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-26-11 08:33 AM
Response to Reply #19
20. I would submit that there are better ways to cure cancer than indiscriminately stabbing the patient
nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tekisui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-26-11 08:41 AM
Response to Reply #20
21. Shit, if you have some ideas, lay them on the table. Nothing else has
worked. For what it's worth it isn't stabbing the patient, but rather taking taking steps to hold the liars and criminals at the top accountable.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Azathoth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-26-11 08:57 AM
Response to Reply #21
23. I'm all for accountability
Any day a government employee blows the whistle on some kind of corruption or crime or malfeasance is a good day for me. Sadly, Manning's actions had nothing to do with accountability.

In the meantime, the only way to meaningfully reduce the "empire" is to reduce the defense budget. We're not there yet, but I think the horrendous economy is finally starting to prod a lot of people into reconsidering out national priorities.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sudopod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-26-11 09:46 AM
Response to Reply #9
24. Thank you Dr. Freud. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Azathoth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-26-11 09:56 AM
Response to Reply #24
25. Hmm...when did reported facts become psychoanalysis? n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sudopod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-26-11 10:14 AM
Response to Reply #25
28. Since when does some reporter's psychoanalysis become fact? nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Azathoth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-26-11 10:25 AM
Response to Reply #28
30. When did reporting the words of Manning and his father become psychoanalysis? n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sudopod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-26-11 10:26 AM
Response to Reply #30
31. I guess it happened when you went from "bad father-son relationship"
Edited on Tue Apr-26-11 10:30 AM by sudopod
to "everything he does is because he has daddy issues, his point is invalid and PS he deserved what came to him"

That way, you don't have to defend anyone from accusations of unjust punishment or anything.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Azathoth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-26-11 10:32 AM
Response to Reply #31
32. When did I suggest he had "daddy issues"?
I said his dad forced him into the military because he had attitude problems. This comes from his dad.
I said he was angry at the military and the US government and wanted to hurt them. This comes from him.
I said his indiscriminate theft of every document he could get his hands on belies any claim that he was trying to "expose" something specific or be a whistleblower.

Where is the psychoanalysis?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sudopod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-26-11 10:38 AM
Response to Reply #32
33. Here
Edited on Tue Apr-26-11 10:41 AM by sudopod
Manning was not "blowing the whistle" on anything. He was a malcontent who was basically forced to enlist in the army by a father who was fed up with his behavior/attitude problems. Instead of shaping up, his attitude got the best of him and he eventually decided to get even with the mean people giving him orders. So he walked in to work one day and indiscriminately downloaded every document with a "classified" stamp he could find from every department he could access and he handed everything over to Wikileaks. And then he hopped on a chat server and boasted about how he had stuck it to the man.

The part about the chat server is still in question, since Mr. Lamo isn't exactly a grade A witness, and text files aren't so hard to "enhance," but we can let that slide.

And none of that, even if 100 percent true, would excuse his treatment or those who have ordered it. It's much easier to swallow it and say "he had it coming" if he's a little whiny malcontent getting even with dad though, isn't it.

I think in your heart of hearts, you know better, but, as I said to the barf guy below, whatever helps you sleep at night.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Azathoth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-26-11 10:44 AM
Response to Reply #33
34. His father was fed up with his attitude problems. He was a malcontent (almost by definition)
Edited on Tue Apr-26-11 10:46 AM by Azathoth
He was angry with the government (i.e. the people giving him orders) and wanted to hurt them. None of this is in dispute. So far no heavy psychoanalysis yet...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sudopod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-26-11 10:46 AM
Response to Reply #34
35. As I said before, Mr Daemon Sultan, whatever helps you sleep at night. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Azathoth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-26-11 10:48 AM
Response to Reply #35
36. Daemon Sultans don't sleep. They gnaw hungrily for all eternity. Or something. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Azathoth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-26-11 11:06 AM
Response to Reply #33
37. Hmm...I missed part of your message
I never said he "had it coming". I do think he's a malcontent who was trying to get even with the government (not his dad). As for his treatment, I can't say I'm an enthusiastic supporter of making him sleep naked. However, he did bring that on himself by making jokes about committing suicide with his underwear.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-26-11 07:34 AM
Response to Original message
10. Deleted sub-thread
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
dionysus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-26-11 10:12 AM
Response to Original message
26. manning is the little baby jesus.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sudopod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-26-11 10:24 AM
Response to Reply #26
29. and Jesus was a space alien. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Fri Jul 25th 2014, 02:03 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » General Discussion: Presidency Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC