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AzNick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 03:13 AM
Original message
Would being a birther qualify someone as an idiot to you?
This is a scenario, nothing based on true events (I swear). I had this idea today.

Say for instance you are in a hiring positions and the background checks on several candidates include their political allegiance (yes, background checks can include that if you request it).

Say several are republicans. You would still consider them for the position because everyone is entitled to his own opinion.

But if for instance you googled one of the candidates and realized he was a birther, would you disqualidy this candidate, not because he has an opinion you disagree with, but because obviously his opinion that Obama was born in Kenya obviously shows that he is too much of an idiot for the job?

Personally I am a split. On the one hand I respect everybody's position. On the other hand, the guy is obviously a moron and I know he would not be a good fit.

What say you?
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hlthe2b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 03:16 AM
Response to Original message
1. Would a female physician who supported Palin in 2008?
I struggle with this, as I know many people just don't pay much attention to politics. But, in answer to your question, I would be hard pressed not to think someone was a real idiot for believing that (or a racist that CHOSE to believe it OR an opportunist, like Trump, who believed there was a benefit to come from stating his "belief" in it).

As for my friend who supported Palin, well, I don't know if she still does. (I've been afraid to ask)... :shrug:
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Cal33 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 09:25 AM
Response to Reply #1
16. I find the distinctions you've made to be reasonable and clear. We
Edited on Mon Apr-25-11 09:26 AM by Cal33
shouldn't try to make one tool fit every occasion. This usually creates more problems.
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phleshdef Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 01:15 PM
Response to Reply #1
22. Supporting a dumb conservative is one thing. Declaring thoroughly debunked nonsense, conspiracy
...to be true is an entirely different thing.

As much as I would instinctively look down on someone who thinks Palin is even close to Presidential material, that doesn't compare at all to the level of stupidity and voluntary ignorance someone has to engage in to buy into birtherism.
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era veteran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 03:18 AM
Response to Original message
2. Yes, I am sure it either means racist or dumb ass or both
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dmr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 03:33 AM
Response to Original message
3. I'd be concerned with their critical thinking skills, or
worried about their character.

I would want someone who could think things through & not someone who goes along to just get along.

I would want someone I could trust. I'd worry about bigotry showing itself in my company toward my other employees or customers.

I wouldn't want an opportunist that would stoop that low to get ahead.

It's a good question you asked. Tomorrow, after thinking about this, I might have a different answer, but off the cuff, I'd be hard pressed to hire someone like this especially if there were other candidates in which to choose.
:hi:
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Keith Bee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 03:43 AM
Response to Original message
4. Once they see the plain truth and deny it?
Yeah!
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Drunken Irishman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 03:44 AM
Response to Original message
5. Yes...
If someone told you the moon was made out of cheese and seriously believed such a thing, would you not think they were probably dumb as dirt?

There are tolerable theories and then there are idiotic theories. Someone believing in aliens, or at least the possibility of aliens, seems tolerable to me because we can't disprove such a theory, right? Unless someone has visited every corner of the universe (impossible), the answer is unknown.

But this is different. This is beyond just rational conspiracy theory. It's been proven false. Time and time again.

I could never accept someone as being smart if they continually refuse to believe in the truth.

If someone walked up to you and told you John F. Kennedy was a robot spy built by the Soviets to infiltrate the U.S. government and was only assassinated by CIA operatives who knew of this and wanted to put an end to his Red Reign, you'd look at them like they were batshit insane.

Well you know what? That's how I look at birthers.

They're no different than those dumb fucks who believe the earth is flat or that the sun revolves around the earth.
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BlueMTexpat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 05:00 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. I'm with you, but you said it much better than I ever could! nt
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kiranon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-26-11 03:13 PM
Response to Reply #5
43. Agree. n/t
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Proud Liberal Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 06:55 AM
Response to Original message
7. I wouldn't disqualify somebody over strange political beliefs
any more than I would support a Republican being able to fire (or refuse to hire) an Obama supporter, for instance. Politics shouldn't/wouldn't even enter into the equation. My concern would be whether or not they could do the job, not whether or not they happen to hold a nutty conspiracy theory.
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mwb970 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 07:27 AM
Response to Reply #7
10. But birtherism isn't just a "strange political belief".
Wanting the US to return to the Gold Standard is a strange political belief. Believing in birtherism, a known falsehood, shows a tendency toward groupthink, an inability to think critically, and an unwillingness to acknowledge proven truth, all of which could well render the person unsuitable for any given job.
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Proud Liberal Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 08:31 AM
Response to Reply #10
12. I don't know that there is anything unique about "birtherism"
We all sit around and poke fun at them and their ridiculous beliefs here and I think most people (outside of the Republican Party, anyway) believe that they're off their rockers but being a "birther" doesn't necessarily make them mentally or functionally inept, at least not any more so than people whom believe in any other conspiracy theory. What about people whom don't believe we ever landed on the moon? "Truthers"? Are you holding all of them to the same standard and would likewise refuse to hire somebody whom believed in those theories? Why or why not? I really believe that hiring (or refusing to hire) people on the basis of political ideology and/or whether or not they subscribe to the "right" kind of thinking is ridiculous. Hiring decisions should IMHO be based on whether or not a person has the necessary skills and mental capacity for a given job. Anything else is discriminatory and runs afoul of the law. :shrug:
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mwb970 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 08:39 AM
Response to Reply #12
14. But I didn't say I would "refuse to hire" them.
I said that their birtherism would call into question their critical thinking skills, which could be a factor in some jobs.

:shrug: back at you!
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lunatica Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 06:56 AM
Response to Original message
8. Once I find out someone is a birther, climate change denier,
or viscerally anti-union I need no further proof that they're unable to think critically or for themselves. I drop them if I can and if I can't do that I just don't engage them. So no, I wouldn't hire them, but it would be because every such person I've met who is like that is toxic and pushes their opinions on everyone. They compensate by putting people down and being aggressive about their views.
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GoCubsGo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 07:23 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. Yep, that's been my experience,too.
If people do their jobs well, AND keep their outside beliefs to themselves, I generally don't give a shit what they believe. The workplace is for getting one's job done, not espousing one's political and religious beliefs. My experience is that fanatics are not capable of keeping their beliefs to themselves. It doesn't matter whether they are political fanatics--right or left, religious fanatics, or anti-science fanatics. They can be the best person in the world at doing the job for which they might be hired. But, if they are toxic to the general work environment, they have no business there. Fanatics ALWAYS crap up the work environment, and birthers are fanatics.
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Abq_Sarah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 12:51 PM
Response to Reply #8
18. I don't consider opposition to my own views
As being evidence of an inability of that person to engage in critical thought.

I once had an employee who was a truther, which I personally consider nutty as hell but he was good at his job and we simply didn't discuss his views at work.
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Bluenorthwest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 07:51 AM
Response to Original message
11. I wildly oppose the entire idea of checking a person's politics
and going down lists to determine employment. That is sort of McCarthy crap. Making lists of those who are in the 'wrong' politics, and denying employment on that basis is shitty. Shitty. Shitty.
A person who would do that is in fact, far worse than a mere Birther. A person like that is a scoundrel.
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Mimosa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 06:41 PM
Response to Reply #11
30. ^ ITA with BlueNorthwest ^
BlueNorthwest you often say just what I'm thinking. Right or left wing versions of McCarthyism we just don't need.

There are so many ways to tell if a person is smart and experienced, as well as having good social skills, that 'investigating political orientation' is irrelevant and intrusive. But you said it better, as usual! :D
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Drunken Irishman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-26-11 12:08 AM
Response to Reply #11
34. It's not a person's politics...
There is a difference between ideological beliefs and believing the president was born in Kenya - they are not related.

Would you hire someone if you found out on their Facebook page they were a member of the KKK and had racist status updates about lynching blacks?

I guess you could consider that a political belief...

But when you're making a hire, you also have to make the hire based on character. I question the character of anyone who considers themselves a birther. I do not, however, question the character of someone who ideologically aligns with the Republican Party. I might not agree with them, but those are two separate issues, IMO.
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ecstatic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-26-11 12:09 PM
Response to Reply #11
40. Don't worry. Once declined, they'll pull themselves up by their own bootstraps,
just as they've advised the rest of us to do. They'll be fine.
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Armstead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 08:34 AM
Response to Original message
13. Depends on their other qualifications and qualities -- and the nature of the job
Most likely it would cause me to be a lot more careful about them, but if everrything else was fine, I might. It would also depend on the nature of the job, and how much their own beliefs factor in.

I might not hire them if it were, lets say a personal assistant who I would have to be spending a lot of time with. Or if it were a position where "critical thinking" related to issues was a factor.

But if I was hiring someone to do yardwork, and I knew they were hardworking and good at it and of good character, I would not care whether they are a birther or Scientologist or whatever.

If I was hiring, say, a teacher, it would be more of an issue -- although not a deal breaker of I was certain they'd keep their political beliefs to themselves, and were not teaching a subject where a idiotic personal beliefs would get in the way.



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Bluenorthwest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 08:52 AM
Response to Original message
15. It is illegal to ask about political afllilitation in an interview
Against the law. If someone asks you, refuse the job and walk away.
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hack89 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 12:45 PM
Response to Original message
17. I would rank them up there with the Truthers
and would not hire either one.
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backscatter712 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 12:53 PM
Response to Original message
19. As an idiot and a racist. n/t
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Fire1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 12:55 PM
Response to Original message
20. Yes! Birthers' do qualify as "idiots." n/t
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GameOn Donating Member (86 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 12:58 PM
Response to Original message
21. when a black man named Barack Hussein Obama runs agains the wife of a former POTUS. Then runs
Edited on Mon Apr-25-11 12:59 PM by GameOn
against the party in charge of the CIA at the time, yes I think any birther is an idiot. To think that someone named Barack Hussein Obama wasn't vetted before being given secrets of this country is just idiotic.

I'm sure Hilary and Bill CLinton had access to many former intel officials who could find dirt on anyone. And then McCain and the GOP had access to the CIA and FBI and they couldn't find anything. That should pretty much put the issue to bed.
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CakeGrrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 01:49 PM
Response to Original message
23. Yes. This person is an obtuse, illogical individual.
Or, they're simply racist and fearful and can't come to grips with the concept of a black man in a high position of power and influence.

Or a combination of the above. Any way you look at it, it's not a positive set of traits they bring to the table.

Trump is an exception. Given who he is, I think he's in it for the attention.
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 04:46 PM
Response to Original message
24. Yes, just as someone being a 9/11 "Truther" qualifies someone as an idiot in my eyes
:hi:
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Ferret Annica Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 04:58 PM
Response to Original message
25. Birther is synonymous to brain death
Yes YES YES YES, an idiot, first class.
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Spinny Liberal Donating Member (120 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 05:36 PM
Response to Original message
26. I think I would DQ
them because I'm willing to bet their views on other issues run contrary to mine. And they're probably racist and think that the moon landing was a hoax.
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Arkana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 05:44 PM
Response to Original message
27. Yes.
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RandomKoolzip Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 05:58 PM
Response to Original message
28. A stupid political belief is no barometer of workplace competence.
I would hire someone on their ability to do their job. Their political beliefs are no business of mine, unless either he/she or I makes it my business. If the shoe was on the other foot, I'm sure we would think a conservative boss dismissing a liberal employee, despite that employee's competence, would be condemnable.
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tledford Donating Member (633 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 06:24 PM
Response to Original message
29. Being a birther proves racism, not idiocy, and I wouldn't hire a racist. eom
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JayceR Donating Member (33 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 06:55 PM
Response to Original message
31. As a Racist, Hypocritical Moron... Hell Yes!
I like how Republicunts are desperately trying to push that they're not racist with the whole "Reverse Racism" bullshit, but then they openly buy in to this birther nonsense. No other president had to show their birth certificate... where did this rumor start? Obama even released his Hawaiian birth certificate to the press, yet they still cling to their racist perception of Obama as a canvas on which can be painted all of their worst fears. (Brown People, Communism, IslamAny other belief than the "TRUE" denominations of Christianity) This whole Birther thing has crushed any chances of Republicans getting minority votes... man I hope so.
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ReturnoftheDjedi Donating Member (839 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 10:32 PM
Response to Original message
32. yes. yes, it would.
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La Lioness Priyanka Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 11:49 PM
Response to Original message
33. If they are an idiot cognitive tests and college scoreswill prove it
And will be easier for one to defend in court, should a discrimination case arise
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Historic NY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-26-11 06:15 AM
Response to Original message
35. If they're willing to hang it out there then it says something doesn't it.
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joe1991 Donating Member (137 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-26-11 06:24 AM
Response to Original message
36. it's similiar to religious beliefs
Many competent prople believe in invisible cloud gods with no evidence.

I find most conservatives base their politics on uninformed "gut feelings" also.

Those of us who live in "red states" see it every day, smart people who work using science, facts, and reality; then have the most insane beliefs in their private lives.
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CakeGrrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-26-11 11:23 PM
Response to Reply #36
45. Not really the same. This isn't a subjective issue.
Obama has just as much proof that he was born in the U.S. as any other citizen.

This isn't an "is there or isn't there a God" type question. We know the answer, and some people are choosing to ignore that. The 'why' behind that is the only thing at issue.
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Balbus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-26-11 08:10 AM
Response to Original message
37. Yep. That and those "stolen election" nutters.
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Azathoth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-26-11 08:28 AM
Response to Original message
38. How does he present his arguments?
Sometimes, analyzing how a person attempts to advocate an unpopular or "crazy" point of view tells you more about them than watching them take a position you already agree with. The racism factor notwithstanding, I would have a great deal of respect for someone who could rationally argue the birther case without inventing facts or sounding like a paranoid lunatic.

Of course, I have yet to encounter such a person, so...
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ecstatic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-26-11 11:54 AM
Response to Original message
39. I would not hire such a person
The first strike was being a republican. Second strike being a birther. Third strike, blogging about it.
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ZombieHorde Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-26-11 12:53 PM
Response to Original message
41. They may be deluded, so are people who believe authority is a quality of the government.
We all have our delusions.
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struggle4progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-26-11 01:25 PM
Response to Original message
42. I'd try to stick tight to job qualification considerations. I've met all kinds of people
with crazy ideas over the years -- by which I mean Whoa! I hope I never ever understand how this person thinks about such-and-such, because I'm afraid I might go bonkers too then

Lawyer who thought putting magnets in his hat made him smarter: talented successful lawyer, too

Very pleasant, concerned, active and effective woman -- who takes horoscopes absolutely seriously. I really enjoy doing volunteer work with her -- but I somehow manage not to talk horoscopes with her

Did some stuff with a fellow who has a successful career in workplace education for his company: they fly him all over the country doing training seminars. He's smart and energetic. Don't talk to him about evolution though: he's rabidly anti!

These folk, and many others I've met, have some ideas that clearly qualify them as "idiots" according to my understanding of the world. But in other ways they're not idiots at all. I expect they all could make some real hard-hitting observations about me, if I wanted to hear such -- which, of course, I don't. Meh



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Zoeisright Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-26-11 11:00 PM
Response to Original message
44. Yes.
That's a good litmus test. If they believe that shit, they have no critical thinking skills and no reasoning ability. So yes, an idiot.
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