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Not only is the progressive blogosphere at odds with Obama its at odd with 80% of Democrats. . .

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wndycty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 11:00 AM
Original message
Not only is the progressive blogosphere at odds with Obama its at odd with 80% of Democrats. . .
. . .and as I see all of these sanctimonious proclamations about not supporting Obama, about him abandoning his base, etc. It seems we are talking about 20% of Democrats (Gallup), 1/5 of the party who disapprove. 80%, 4/5 of Democrats approve of the job he is doing.

I am glad we don't walk in lockstep, I am glad we are not afraid to criticize, but I should also point out that while it is popular in the progressive blogosphere to bash President Obama, he remains very strong with his base.

Don't let the negative echo chamber driven by 1/5 of Democrats discourage you, they are the minority.

Don't you forget it.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/116479/barack-obama-presiden...
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Exilednight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 11:01 AM
Response to Original message
1. 85% of all polls are made up. n/t
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young but wise Donating Member (760 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 11:05 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. LOL
Keep telling yourself that.
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Exilednight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 11:13 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. I was looking at one of these polls the other day. There were 787
respondents. That equates to just over two people per congressional district.

You need a much wider sample than that to come up with a trustworthy opinion poll.
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JuniperLea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 11:16 AM
Response to Reply #4
9. Which one of "these" polls are you referring to?
Gallup gets a much larger sampling than that. Perhaps discussing the actual poll the OP refers to is the way to take this.
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Exilednight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 11:18 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. It was a daily gallup tracking poll. n/t
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JuniperLea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 12:26 PM
Response to Reply #10
21. Ah... one which you can't link... eom
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Exilednight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 02:15 PM
Response to Reply #21
24. I looked at it a couple days ago. I'm not even sure what day the poll was taken
Edited on Wed Apr-06-11 02:37 PM by Exilednight
on. I just ran through the numbers to see what was what. Even if you poll 10,000 people, it's not indicative of 300 million.

I'm not wasting my time to go back and look for it.
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jenmito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 02:27 PM
Response to Reply #24
27. Here's Gallup's website. Whatever Gallup poll you're talking about should be there:
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lindalou65 Donating Member (56 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 07:51 PM
Response to Reply #24
43. Random Sampling
Actually, random sampling is very accurate and the sample size is typically small and is very indicative of the larger population.
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Exilednight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 09:18 PM
Response to Reply #43
51. Not always, especially in political polling. MOE is often understated. When corporations
do market research, they gear their questioning to a set demographic, thus the reason they have such good results.

On the other hand, policy polling is often misrepresented. Questions are tailored to derive the desired result, and often fail to reflect true feelings.

If called and asked if I support President Obama's policy compared to that of Republican policy, my answer would be yes, I support Obama's policy over his counterparts, but that doesn't mean I agree with his policy or believe that his policy is the right one.
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SpartanDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 04:43 PM
Response to Reply #4
38. Take a statistics class
and you'll learn what you said is completely false
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Exilednight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 05:30 PM
Response to Reply #38
39. I have taken a statistics class.
I aced it. Easiest class I ever took.
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Exilednight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 05:30 PM
Response to Reply #38
40. Self delete: Double post.
Edited on Wed Apr-06-11 05:30 PM by Exilednight
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ProudDad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 09:33 PM
Response to Reply #1
52. In a manner of speaking you're entirely correct (n/t)
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cottonseed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 11:12 AM
Response to Original message
3. They're spending their time right now fantasizing about a Kucinich primary challenge.
That'll probably go on until the day after the convention. It's going to be a long year.
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Exilednight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 11:14 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. I'd prefer Sanders. His speech on the Senate floor is enough to win my vote. n/t
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wndycty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 11:14 AM
Response to Reply #3
6. Even after Kucinich endorses Obama. . .LOL
:kick:
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ReggieVeggie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 02:14 PM
Response to Reply #3
23. I don't need Kucinich to run
he's shown himself to be ineffectual

SOMEONE besides the standard corporate ass-kissing, establishmentarian capitalists that we seem to end up with every cycle whether they win or lose
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pmorlan1 Donating Member (763 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 11:04 PM
Response to Reply #3
61. I didn't support Kucinich
You have a bigger problem than just Kucinich voters my friend.
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sudopod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 11:15 AM
Response to Original message
7. They, them, etc.
Why are you trying so hard to define a new out group? What do you hope to gain by branding people as "the other?"
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carolinayellowdog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 11:38 AM
Response to Reply #7
12. That is normally a midterm phenomenon; bad timing now
Time to pretend that all Obama voters are one big US, until after the 2012 election. After that the progressive-bashing can resume without shame.
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wndycty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 11:45 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. Well considering I AM A PROGRESSIVE, its not progressive bashing, its push back. . .
. . .against people I agree with on numerous issues.

I would dare say many folks who identify themselves as progressives stand in strong support of President Obama.

So calling out a minority of progressives is not progressive bashing.
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 12:14 PM
Response to Reply #13
18. Define 'progressive'.
Hillary used to call herself 'progressive' - despite being a leading light of the DLC corporate wing, pro-war Democrats.

If you don't support unions, you are not progressive.
If you are anti-choice, you are not progressive.
If you are anti-gay, you are not progressive.
If you think privatizing the public schools is 'reform', you are not progressive.
If you think that guaranteeing that private insurance is the final word in healthcare reform, you are not progressive.
If you are against transparency in government, you are not progressive.
If you think the concentration camp at GITMO is legitimate, you are not progressive.
If you think military tribunals are a worthy substitute for our judicial system, you are not progressive.

If you believe any of these things, and tell Gallup you self-identify as a progressive, you are a liar.
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wndycty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 12:39 PM
Response to Reply #18
22. Well this is what I believe and I believe this makes me a progressive
I am pro-choice
I am pro union and belong to the Illinois Education Association/National Education Association (since 1999)
I support gay marriage and any laws that protect the LGBT community
I support single payer health care
I support decriminalization of marijuana
I want GITMO closed
I want terrorists tried in federal courts
I support reparations for slavery
I support the repeal of the Bush tax cuts
I think military spending should be cut
I think going to war should always be our last option
I support adequate funding for public education
I support equal pay for women
I believe that affirmative action needs to stay in place until there is full equality in the US
I believe we need to invest more into renewable energy
I believe we need to protect the environment
I believe there needs to be greater diversity in media ownership
I am against the death penalty

BUT, I TAKE OFFENSE TO ANYONE WHO HAS TO AUDACITY TO THINK THEY ARE MORE PROGRESSIVE THAN I, AND THAT TO BE CONSIDERED PROGRESSIVE I MUST FALL IN LOCKSTEP* WITH OTHER PROGRESSIVES AND BASH PRESIDENT OBAMA TO BE CONSIDERED PROGRESSIVE, FURTHERMORE I ALSO UNDERSTAND THAT I CAN'T GET EVERYTHING I WANT AS A PROGRESSIVE AND THAT THE PRESIDENT IS NEITHER A DICTATOR OR A UNITARY EXECUTIVE WHO CAN ACT WITHOUT CONGRESS

* I think its funny that some in the progressive movement like to complain that those of us who support President Obama want every Democrat to walk in lockstep with him, however they do the exact them when it comes to their individual progressive agendas.
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frylock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 02:16 PM
Response to Reply #22
26. you support ALL of those things..
yet you can't tolerate any criticism of obama because of his:

attacks on the teacher's unions
not going to the mat for single payer health care
continued federal raids of medical cannibis facilities
lackluster support for repeal of bush tax cuts for the wealthiest americans
continuation and expansion of the wars
inadequate funding for public education
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wndycty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 02:36 PM
Response to Reply #26
28. I can tolerate criticism, but much of the criticism is not constructive its meant to insult. . .
. . .it is often uninformed and counterproductive.
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pmorlan1 Donating Member (763 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 11:15 PM
Response to Reply #22
62. Wow
If these are things you support it's odd that you would support a candidate who does the opposite on so many of them. Perhaps you take such great offense at others questioning you because you see the logic of their criticism and it's easier to get mad at them than to explain the inconsistency in what you say and what you do?
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wndycty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 08:54 AM
Response to Reply #62
68. Obama is not a unitary executive and he must deal with Congress, you can talk all that shit. . .
. . .but in reality you should know better.
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democracy1st Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 11:57 PM
Response to Reply #18
64. you kicked his @$$!
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Armstead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 11:16 AM
Response to Original message
8. Sigh -- It's not either/or.....You are setting up a phony dichotomy
Edited on Wed Apr-06-11 11:17 AM by Armstead
1) There are varying degrees of "support." If a pollster called me I'd say I support Obama. However I am also very disappointed and angry at many things he has done or not done.

2)Depends on the damn issue. A person might agree with Obama very strongly on one thing, and disagree with him on something else....Or a person might have mixed feelings or agree on goals but disagree with strategies.

3)THERE IS NO MONOLITHIC "BLOGOSPHERE"....Technically you and I are both members of the left blogosphere, but obviously do not see eye to eye on this.

Your divisive simplistic characterizations are a classic example of shooting ourselves in the foot. Defend Obama all you want -- That's fine. But please don't try to set up these little enclaves of "for us or against us" with people who are ultimately on the same side.
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Vattel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 12:05 PM
Response to Reply #8
17. nice post
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paulk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 09:54 PM
Response to Reply #8
54. well said
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RandomKoolzip Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 09:56 AM
Response to Reply #8
70. I recommend this post. I am so tired of binary thinking.
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carolinayellowdog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 11:20 AM
Response to Original message
11. Democratic Party ID is at a 22-year low
Edited on Wed Apr-06-11 11:22 AM by carolinayellowdog
I identify as Independent and would not be surprised if a large portion of the "progressive blogophere" does so for and the same reason: disgust with the Democratic Party. And like most progressive bloggers, my hatred for the Republican Party would preclude ever voting R! That doesn't mean I won't vote for Obama again, but rather than congratulating themselves on his approval among Democrats, the party leaders should be asking why so many fewer people identify as such. Unfortunately, the answer they seem to prefer is "because we ought to become even more like Republicans."

http://www.gallup.com/poll/145463/democratic-party-drop...
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derby378 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 06:40 PM
Response to Reply #11
41. It's simple - we need President Obama to act like a DEMOCRAT
What makes a Democrat a Democrat? Commitment to labor, to the working class.

Democrats are not the women's party or the African-American party or the GLBT party or anything like that. We are the party of labor. It just so happens, however, that women, blacks, gays, Muslims, Jews, Hispanics, etc. all work for a living - they don't have anything handed to them on a silver platter, but have to fight for everything they have.

And that's what we've been waiting for Obama to do: fight.

He hasn't fought for healthcare reform. He hasn't fought for union workers. He hasn't fought for the end of military kangaroo courts in Gitmo. That is not acceptable, and that's not helping those of us who support the working guy.
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ProudDad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 09:17 PM
Response to Reply #41
50. Preferably an FDR Democrat -- NOT a Clinton democrat... (n/t)
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quiller4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 10:59 PM
Response to Reply #11
60. Actually it was at a 22 year low last November but has increased
substantially since according to both Pew and Gallup.
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Nydari Donating Member (74 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 08:48 AM
Response to Reply #11
67. Well said..
Out of all the progressive/liberal people that I know, very few identify themselves as Democrats for the reason you stated; disgust with the party.

Of course, due to the playing field we almost always vote D, but still... not a single left-leaning person I know is happy with Obama. The closest I see are people arguing that at least he has been better than McCain/Palin would have been.
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wndycty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 08:56 AM
Response to Reply #67
69. Not a single left leaning person you know is happy with Obama, well meet me. . .
. . .I am happy with him and I am sure if you met a few more left leaning people you would find him to be popular with a lot of them.
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demosincebirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 11:52 AM
Response to Original message
14. I've never agreed with anyone on everything. Same goes with the Dems, which
I've been a life long member of,
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frylock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 12:00 PM
Response to Original message
15. if it's in the bag, then why the need for the constant call-outs?
you either need the disgruntled left, or you don't. you can't ignore a group of people and simultaneously scapegoat them.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 12:05 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. Deleted sub-thread
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
dionysus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 02:15 PM
Response to Reply #15
25. the "disenchanted" folks get to say how much the dems suck every single day. at least be consistent.
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wndycty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 09:34 PM
Response to Reply #25
53. Exactly. . .
:kick:
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Life Long Liberal Donating Member (120 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 12:14 PM
Response to Original message
19. I think some of us might of had too high of expectations.
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damntexdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 12:23 PM
Response to Original message
20. And what's new about that?
We are, after all, not Repukes.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 02:48 PM
Response to Original message
29. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
frylock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 03:51 PM
Response to Reply #29
33. yet it will be that 3% of the electorate that will be responsible for the downfall of the party
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wndycty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 04:38 PM
Response to Reply #33
37. And unfortunately they relish that role
:kick:
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derby378 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 06:42 PM
Response to Reply #37
42. You want to win in 2012 or not?
It's that simple. We have a list.

Just because I'm supporting Democratic candidates in 2012 doesn't mean that all of my fellow progressives will unless they believe that the candidates are actually listening to them. What happened in November should have taught you that - and I did vote in November.
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frylock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 09:04 PM
Response to Reply #37
48. like relish on a hot dog?
i like hot dogs. do you like hot dogs?
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pmorlan1 Donating Member (763 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 11:19 PM
Response to Reply #37
63. lol
Evidently you relish the role of driving them off. lol
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wndycty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 10:09 AM
Response to Reply #63
71. I am driving off people who have already indicated they will not support him, so why waste time. . .
. . .trying to make them happy when they are sitting in the corner with their arms folded determined to be unhappy?
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vroomvroom Donating Member (496 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 02:53 PM
Response to Original message
30. Re-Election will REQUIRE those remaining 20% nt
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ClassWarrior Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 03:19 PM
Response to Original message
31. The bloggers may be more universally progressive, but Dems hold those same values.
Maybe not everybody holds all of the same ones, and maybe not all in the same proportions. The point is, to talk down those progressives and the values we all share only undermines ALL OF US, by lending credence to RADICAL RW VALUES.

(Not to mention the fact that that 20 percent includes many of the very people Obama needs to knock on doors and make phone calls.)

But go ahead, embrace the mythological "center."

NGU.

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treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 03:23 PM
Response to Original message
32. Rec'd, and some disapprovers are from the conservative side
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ReggieVeggie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 03:54 PM
Response to Reply #32
34. disapprove of what, exactly?
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Ramulux Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 04:20 PM
Response to Original message
35. Do you honestly think....
the democratic party can survive without a fifth of its voting block? Thats a huge percentage.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 04:37 PM
Response to Reply #35
36. Deleted sub-thread
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 08:04 PM
Response to Original message
44. wndcty....If the numbers don't add up...maybe you are getting Numbers from
a Source..that doesn't "add up ...to what you are going with?" :shrug: What else can I ask?
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livetohike Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 08:17 PM
Response to Original message
45. K &R
:kick:
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Logical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 08:44 PM
Response to Original message
46. I think the only thing Obama will lose is the excitement we had in 2008.
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 08:48 PM
Response to Original message
47. That's OKAY! America is a DEMOCRACY...FOLKS DIFFER...It's what It's ALL ABOUT!
Don'tcha THINK?
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ProudDad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 09:14 PM
Response to Original message
49. 4 out of 5 Democrats are sheep
Edited on Wed Apr-06-11 09:16 PM by ProudDad
95% of USAmericans are politically illiterate and vote according to the last ad they saw...

80% of White people in the South used to think Segregation was right...

99% of the Pharisees in Jerusalem thought Jesus should be nailed to a cross...

Just because a majority is wrong doesn't make it a good thing...
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HooptieWagon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 09:56 PM
Response to Original message
55. Obama can't win without the Progressive vote.
And he and his administration have been outright hostile towards progressives... and progressives are just fuckin' tired of hearing "Well, who else you gonna vote for?" If Obama wants the Progressive vote, he better start <earning> it.
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wndycty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 10:00 PM
Response to Reply #55
56. Here is what you and others don't get. He has the progressive vote. I am a progressive and . . .
. . .the majority of the Democratic party that makes up his 80% approval rating are progressives.

Those who dislike the President are not the only progressives in the party and this sanctimonious shit about losing the progressives is BULLSHIT, I and a bunch of other progressives still support the President.
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HooptieWagon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 10:08 PM
Response to Reply #56
57. He's repeatedly caved to the rethugs and corporatists.
He caved on HCR before the debate even started. He caved on tax cuts for the wealthy. He caved on ending the wars. He caved on closing Gitmo. OK, he ended DADT - but I'm not voting for him based on a single issue, when he's done so much against my beliefs.
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wndycty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 10:09 PM
Response to Reply #57
58. Go ahead, take your ball and go home. . .
. . .we will find more votes. . .
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eilen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 06:04 AM
Response to Reply #58
65. I'd prefer the administration earn them.
Bipartisanship blows. Fight for what you believe in.

If what you believe in is war, spying on your own citizens and unchecked executive power. Fuck you.
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wndycty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 08:46 AM
Response to Reply #65
66. They will earn them. . .trust me
:kick:
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frylock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 10:47 PM
Response to Reply #56
59. i'm a ninja..
just because i said so.....
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