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Of course he'll win. Is that really the point?

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rug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 06:13 PM
Original message
Of course he'll win. Is that really the point?
What he does with the power is more important.

He's looking so strong, and the republicans so clownish, what he actually does and plans is far more telling than polls and campaign emails.
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jefferson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 06:15 PM
Response to Original message
1. His winning is the only way we continue the march of *progress*.
I can't understand why people are acting so flummoxed. It's simple, really.
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rug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 06:20 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. That's not true and it's been more of a crawl than a march, often in the wrong direction.
It's simple only if you believe electoral politics is the only vehicle for progress.
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DCBob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 08:42 PM
Response to Reply #3
19. I think a slow steady crawl is the only way to more forward given the circumstances.
The hardcore conservative elements of this country are still very strong and will not go down easily or quickly.
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rug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 08:55 PM
Response to Reply #19
22. That's assuming a progressiive agenda is contrary to the interests of most people and that
most people are stupid.

I assume neither.

Given a clear focused choice, the right will be rejected.

If you truly espouse progress and change, the time to use that power is when you have it, not squandering it on cynical, calculated election strategies.
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DCBob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 09:01 PM
Response to Reply #22
24. Perhaps if given a clear focused honest choice but that is not happening..
There are powerful forces against us.. Faux news, RW media/talk shows, religious leaders, corporate money/influence, etc. We have to take small steps or we just bang our heads against a concrete wall.
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rug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 09:08 PM
Response to Reply #24
26. I think it can. In the meantime I see little cause for enthusiasm.
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ReturnoftheDjedi Donating Member (839 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 11:09 AM
Response to Reply #3
34. if Obama doesn't win then a Repuke does. and progress comes to a screeching halt.
then we head back in the other direction.

Whether you like it or not, Obama will be the Democratic Nominee.

How do you see any progress being made if he is not reelected?
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 05:23 PM
Response to Reply #3
40. You didn't support this President even before he moved a foot
as President......
so what else is new?
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Exilednight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 07:06 PM
Response to Reply #1
8. One step forward, two steps back. Yep, that's progress - in the wrong direction.
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DCBob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 08:39 PM
Response to Reply #8
18. This country is far more progressive than it was 3 years ago.
Edited on Mon Apr-04-11 08:39 PM by DCBob
If you cant see that you are blinded by ignorance or bias or both.
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Exilednight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 05:10 PM
Response to Reply #18
38. The country is far more progressive than it was three years ago, I just wish our president was. n/t
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DCBob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 06:11 PM
Response to Reply #38
42. Our President has supported all the progressive changes that have occurred.
Why is it some people like you blame Obama for all the bad things that have happened but never give him credit for the good things? Pathetic.
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Exilednight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 08:24 PM
Response to Reply #42
46. Credit is given where credit is deserved. Obama's failed to delivered on his most sweeping
promise that he spoke of. He wanted to be a transformational president, but has failed to transform the country into a more progressive country in the same manner that Reagan pushed the country to neo-conservatism.

It's one thing to support progressive change, it's quite another to be in the front and loudly fight for it.
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DCBob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 05:25 AM
Response to Reply #46
49. Actually I think you are mistaken on what candidate Obama meant about being "transformational"
When I heard him say those words in campaign speeches I never thought he was only talking about making the country more progressive or liberal. I understood transformational to mean he wanted to move this country away from the Bush/Cheney hard-core partisan "in-your-face" style of government and move towards a more unified less-divisive human-friendly country. Although clearly that has not happened, he certainly gets credit for giving it his best shot. However, if he wins another 4 years, he might just pull it off.
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Exilednight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 07:18 AM
Response to Reply #49
51. Best shots don't count. Results are what matter. n/t
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DCBob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 05:43 PM
Response to Reply #51
52. President Obama has probably accomplished more than any other President in their first 2 years..
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

What he has not be able to do is make any progress on reducing divisiveness and hyper-partisanship in this country but that may be an impossible task given the circumstances we are in now. But if he is re-elected and things go the right way, who knows what he may be able to accomplish.

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lindalou65 Donating Member (56 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 06:23 PM
Response to Reply #52
53. Indeed he has accomplished more than he is given credit
I totally agree--I think the USA is more divisive that ever and with the economy in shambles, there is just so much that can be done in a certain amount of time. Having to reverse 8 years of Bush is itself a tall order. As progressives, we must realize that most of the rest of the nation does not support a progressive agenda. That is just the way it is. I wish it was not but we can't move mountains---change takes time.
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derby378 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 06:27 PM
Response to Reply #18
54. Tell that to Arizona, Wisconsin, Ohio, Texas, etc.
Where's the progressive movement in any of those states, pray tell me?
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DCBob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 11:29 PM
Response to Reply #54
55. I am talking about from a national level..
There have always been and always will be pockets of RW/conservatives areas in this country.
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ReturnoftheDjedi Donating Member (839 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 11:11 AM
Response to Reply #8
35. tell that to the gays in the army, or the kids getting healthcare, or the people getting jobs
just because you are too shortsighted to recognize progress,
doesn't mean it isn't happening.
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Exilednight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 05:14 PM
Response to Reply #35
39. Gays in the military was going to happen no matter which Democrat won the White House. Same with
kids getting health care.

As far as jobs go, well the only jobs being created are these - http://www.newser.com/story/115618/mcdonalds-hiring-50k...
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Solomon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 06:16 PM
Response to Reply #39
43. As always, he gets no credit for anything. "It was going to
happen anyway." LOL
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Exilednight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 08:26 PM
Response to Reply #43
47. Out of the people who ran for the Democratic candidacy, which of them would not have supported
gays serving openly, had they won the office?

It's not like Obama was out in front line over this issue, he was pushed and prodded by the left.
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vi5 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 06:19 PM
Response to Original message
2. To far too many, yes that is the point.
It's power as an end rather than a means. And far too many are being duped into accepting that as "victory".
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enough Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 06:30 PM
Response to Original message
4. So glad you said that. I fully expect him to win, but as you say, that's not the point. (nt)
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xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 06:34 PM
Response to Original message
5. I'm not 'for' neoliberalism - coming in a mild form from dems
Or more draconian from repukes.

It all ends up in the same place.
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SkyDaddy7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 06:57 PM
Response to Original message
6. Obama will not win in 2012...
With a sizable chunk of folks who claim to be Liberals sitting out & the money that will be poured into buying a Republican the WH...Obama will probably not win. It is a shame but I think the Republicans will have full control of the Government for a long time to come!

This will make a lot of so-called Liberals very happy because then they can brag about how they took down Obama for not doing what they want...For a little while anyway then they will be pissed like the rest of us. Oh well.

Seriously, the GOP could nominate Bachman & she will probably get elected...My point is it will not matter who the GOP nominates I think that person will be the next President.

I hope like HELL I am wrong!!
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rug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 07:03 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. Don't worry, you are.
Feel free to discuss his policies during the next year and a half.
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Pisces Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 08:05 PM
Response to Reply #6
14. You are so wrong it's laughable.
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SkyDaddy7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 09:51 AM
Response to Reply #14
33. I HOPE SO!
PLEASE share why you are so confident Obama will win in 2012? I need some HOPE!!

And tell me what part if all of what I said is wrong...PLEASE!
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RichGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 07:28 PM
Response to Original message
9. I can't imagine anyone...
With a minimum of active brain cells and an ounce of common sense trying to decide whether to go with Obama, who has disappointed them OR the republican OR Michelle Bachman.

Obama is a centrist....but nobody can say he's like a republican. The republicans today aren't like republicans, not true republicans, they are batshit crazy!

He's running against crazy and crazier!

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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 07:29 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. Think idiot son in 2004; I didn't think that was possible either. nt
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RBInMaine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 07:41 PM
Response to Original message
11. Certainly it is the point. Politics is a zero sum game. And Obama is GOLDEN compared to the RePUKES
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rug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 07:50 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. It's not a game at all unless you reduce it to a track meet.
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ReturnoftheDjedi Donating Member (839 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 11:13 AM
Response to Reply #12
36. until you get your ass kicked. then it feels like you lost a game.
if not Obama, the who?

Please enlighten us all with your Great White Hope.
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rug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 07:35 PM
Response to Reply #36
45. Are you trapped in a metaphor?
Shall I summon help?
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Phx_Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 07:56 PM
Response to Original message
13. Yes, it is absolutely the point.
The fact that progressives are never happy, doesn't make his very long list of substantial accomplishments any less impressive.
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rug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 08:12 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. A list is not a legacy. A President should not be a list maker.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 08:18 PM
Response to Original message
16. What's the OP's point:
that in a contest between Obama and the GOP nominee, Obama winning is not the point?

In the GE, it is the damn point.

Republicans look clownish until they win and appoint Supreme Court justices (Alito, Roberts, Scalia and Thomas).

Supreme Court Allows Tax Credit for Religious Tuition

By ADAM LIPTAK

WASHINGTON The Supreme Court on Monday let stand an Arizona program that aids religious schools, saying in a 5-to-4 decision that the plaintiffs had no standing to challenge it.

<...>

Justice Elena Kagan, in her first dissent, said the majority had laid waste to the doctrine of taxpayer standing, which allows suits from people who object to having tax money spent on religious matters. The courts opinion, Justice Kagan wrote, offers a road map more truly, just a one-step instruction to any government that wishes to insulate its financing of religious activity from legal challenge.

The decision divided the court along the usual ideological lines, with the three other more liberal members Justices Ruth Bader Ginsburg, Stephen G. Breyer and Sonia Sotomayor joining the dissent.

<...>

Awarding some citizens a tax credit allows other citizens to retain control over their own funds in accordance with their own consciences, Justice Kennedy wrote for himself, Chief Justice John G. Roberts Jr. and Justices Antonin Scalia, Clarence Thomas and Samuel A. Alito Jr.

more


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rug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 08:35 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. Does the point elude you?
The re-election is a done deal. Rest easy, SCOTUS is safe.

The realistic threat is not a Republican defeating him. The more likely threat is a continued rightward drift from now through his next term.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 08:47 PM
Response to Reply #17
20. "The re-election is a done deal. Rest easy, SCOTUS is safe."
Does he know he can skip the campaign?

So what are you worried about: that he wins and remains President?

"The more likely threat is a continued rightward drift from now through his next term."

Ah, so the point isn't related to winning (that's an aside), it's about your opinion that Obama is moving to the right?

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rug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 09:00 PM
Response to Reply #20
23. Yes, sadly he does know.
But it's easier - and safer - to campaign than to force change.

So, carry on with your bkue links and republican bogeymen because you still miss the point.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 09:04 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. "So, carry on with
Edited on Mon Apr-04-11 09:05 PM by ProSense
your bkue links and republican bogeymen because you still miss the point."

I get the point: Obama announced his re-election bid and the new outrage is the fact that he's President and plans to raise $1 billion for his re-election. Republicans aren't the ones to fear, it's the Obama "bogeyman."

Pretty silly stuff.


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rug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 09:18 PM
Response to Reply #25
27. Perhaps you could rewrite that post, without distortion this time.
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Armstead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 08:54 PM
Response to Original message
21. You hit on an important point -- The perpetual campaigns is destructive
The jockeying for points has become like an endless sporting event and info-mercial that overshadows the fact the people we elect are supposed to actually govern.
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quaker bill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 10:00 PM
Response to Original message
28. Winning is the point
Edited on Mon Apr-04-11 10:01 PM by quaker bill
but it is more than that. If we want to win, we have to sideline a lot of tea baggers and some regular cons too. Obama would sign progressive legislation, we are the ones who need to get it on his desk.
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Safetykitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 11:09 PM
Response to Original message
29. Those clownish republicans. The underestimating begins.
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rug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 11:23 PM
Response to Reply #29
30. Boo!










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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 05:24 PM
Response to Reply #29
41. Oh, I'm sure you don't underestimate them.....
which is why you trash Pres. Obama at everyturn....

but in reality, according to you, they don't need the help
you give them daily.
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last_texas_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 06:39 AM
Response to Original message
31. To a small, post-heavy contingent here, I'm pretty sure that's the only point.
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Keith Bee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 07:56 AM
Response to Original message
32. Don't blame Obama.....
...for the fact that our political system has been fucked to a standstill over the past 20+ years.
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zalinda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 11:27 AM
Response to Original message
37. I remember almost the exact same words
spoken about Bush and Kerry. Kerry is so strong and intelligent and Bush is a dumb clown. How did that work out?

zalinda
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rug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 07:33 PM
Response to Reply #37
44. I'm sure you realize that Bush was a sitting president in 2004
as opposed to

A Representative

An out of office governor

An out of office Speaker

A toupee holder

etc
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zalinda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 01:55 AM
Response to Reply #44
48. Of course, and I argued that point
I said don't get so cocky, you can't count out Bush yet. Nope, they didn't listen. Just about everyone thought that Kerry was 'in like Flynn'.

If a sane sounding repub gets put up against Obama, there in no telling what might happen. You NEVER assume that it's going to be an easy peasy election.

zalinda
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Liberal_Stalwart71 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 07:05 AM
Response to Original message
50. Yes, it is if we really care who is on the Supreme Court and blocking all
the abortion bills coming out of the House.

It most definitely IS the point.
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