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Rep. Cleaver on Obama and Wisconsin: "Let's sue him for breach of promise and move on."

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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-27-11 03:42 PM
Original message
Rep. Cleaver on Obama and Wisconsin: "Let's sue him for breach of promise and move on."
Edited on Sun Feb-27-11 03:58 PM by ProSense
Meet the Press demonstrated clearly why Republicans and the media want to inject President Obama into Wisconsin.

First, Gregory and others hit on every RW talking point: "no collective bargaining at the federal level," "political contributions by unions," "not a winning issue for Democrats" and trying to inject the President into the protests. Video:

<...>

MS. STRASSEL: Well, as the governor says, he needs to have a pair of shoes on picketing around Washington, D.C., because federal workers are not allowed any of these collectively bargaining rights that he's talking about there. Look, one of the problems here is that I think the problem for Democrats and unions in this is that it's not necessarily a winning issue here. What's going on in the states is a microcosm of the federal debate, and that is about fiscal responsibility right now. What these governors are saying -- and it's Chris Christie in New Jersey, it's Scott Walker in Wisconsin, it's John Kasich in Ohio...

<...>

MR. TRUMKA: But this isn't about President Obama.


This is why they want to inject President Obama into the debate: to shift it from a state issue to a federal issue so they can ignore the protestors and hold the President responsible for them. Listen to Gregory try to hold Trumka responsible for "Hitler" signs.

Video Emanuel Cleaver:

<...>

REP. CLEAVER: Let's sue him for breach of promise and move on. I mean, let's -- you know, the reality is that the, the, the president needs to be in Washington dealing with a plethora of issues around the world, not the least of which is Libya. But I want to go back to something that, that you said actually twice, Governor, and, and that is you said, you know, this is -- would be a one-year agreement. The governor was just elected. He'll still be governor in a year. And, you know, the, the, the agreements that we have were not made by Gadhafi. They were made by people who sat down in a room and worked out a, worked out an agreement. And I think labor unions are saying, and, and public sector employees are saying, "OK, you know, maybe things have gotten out of balance. We'll, we'll, we'll reduce some things." The governor is saying, "I don't care." You know, "I want to crush the union."

<...>



More Trumka on Meet the Press: "Well, first of all, this isn't about the budget crisis"

<...>

MR. RICHARD TRUMKA: . Let's look at how this -- his arguments migrated. First he said it was -- the budget crisis was caused because workers were paid too much in Wisconsin. We now have studies that show they're not overpaid, they're underpaid. In fact, people with a degree in Wisconsin get 25 percent less than their private sector things. Then he said it was about the pension. Now we find out that his pension plan, unlike a lot in the country, is almost fully funded. The assets match the liabilities. And then the employees said, or the members out there said, his workers said, "We'll accept your cuts." And he said, "No. We won't accept your accepting our cuts." And the most outrageous thing that he did, and he talked about this, was he's now saying to them, "You either have to accept a loss of your rights or I'm going to lay you off." Now, no person should have to face the right of their loss of their job or the loss of their rights. I know Governor Barbour would never say to his employees, his people down there, "You either have to give up your rights or you have to give up your job."

<...>

MR. TRUMKA: Well, public employees do take responsibility for it. And those governors that are willing to sit down and work with their employees can actually work out problems. They -- we can solve them. But that's not what Governor Walker is doing. He's saying, "I won't talk to you. I'll talk to all my, my big contributors." He talked to the Koch brothers, he thought. "But I won't talk to employees." Look, the five countries -- or the five states in this country that prohibit collective bargaining by state employees have a collective debt right now of $220 billion. This isn't about employees. This is about the economy.

<...>


Edited to add full roundtable discussion: Part 1 and Part 2

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Sky Masterson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-27-11 03:48 PM
Response to Original message
1. Cleaver is my Rep.
Edited on Sun Feb-27-11 03:52 PM by Sky Masterson
I thought he did a wonderful job on MTP
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-bDmbQSdUs
http://www.youtube.com/user/a34straz608df#p/a/u/0/JVrA_3Zh0RA
part2
Here is another link to the entire segment.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-27-11 03:58 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Thanks, added to OP. n/t
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Sky Masterson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-27-11 04:00 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. You are welcome.
:)
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jenmito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-27-11 04:04 PM
Response to Original message
4. K&R. It was SOOO obvious that Gregory was trying to get every Dem. to say
something bad about Obama on the subject. I like how they handled it.
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great white snark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-27-11 04:31 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. Ugh, just like here...it has to be all Obama while the Republicans get a pass.
A free fucking pass. Excuse my language but Repubs not held accountable and our state Dems getting no credit is a friggin' shame on a Democratic forum.
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jenmito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-27-11 04:43 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. Yup...
it's pathetic.
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66 dmhlt Donating Member (935 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-27-11 04:25 PM
Response to Original message
5. David "Dances-With-Rove" Gregory is an Asshole
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-27-11 04:52 PM
Response to Original message
8. DGregory neglected to point out that Gov Teabagger created much of the budget deficit
with tax cuts for special interests and that the exempted unions was a quid pro quo for their endorsement of him.

Again I can't help but feel Rachel Maddow would be a better MTP host.
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LiberalFighter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-27-11 05:13 PM
Response to Original message
9. Are Republicans saying that federal government employees don't have collective bargaining rights?
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former9thward Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-27-11 06:22 PM
Response to Original message
10. Now you have declared 'no bargaining at the federal level' is a RW talking point.
So to be in favor of federal workers being able to bargain for wages/benefits is RW to you. I wonder why.
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Armstead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-27-11 06:25 PM
Response to Original message
11. In my opinioin that is WHY the Democratic Party leaderts and Obama should Stand Up
Edited on Sun Feb-27-11 06:27 PM by Armstead
I saw MTP. More of the same.

The GOP Corporate CONservative Oligarchs and their minions are going to throw out lies, distractions and phony analysis abpout these things 'til the cows come home.

With a strong, clear and unambiguous message in support of a contrary liberal/progressive position on Collective Bargaining and Workers Rights (or insert many other issues here), it is possible for the Democrats to counter the distractions and fallicies of the right wing.

However, without that clear message of conviction(or if Democratic Party is afraid to go up against the Washington Corporate Concensus) as we have seen too many times, our side is reduced to a perception of blubbering like Ralph Cramden (hammana hammana hammana).

"Well, I suppose maybe those workers deserve something, but gosh we have these awful budget deficits and gee, everyone has to sacrifice but we don't support raising taxes on the wealthy or corporations either, so gosh we're not really sure what to say here, and we certainly don't want to offend any Republicans or contradict those bankers who know everything or offend those corporations who in their benevolence might create some jobs if we're nice to them.....blah,blah, blah.")
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Arkana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-27-11 06:56 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. Yes, because clearly what we need is for the national Democratic Party
to inject itself into the debate and capitalize on the protestors for political gain.

I mean, it's not like our shitty media would dutifully spin it as "BIG GUMMINT DEMOCRATS INTERFERIN' WITH STATES RIGHTS". Nope. No chance.

And no one--NO ONE--has said anything remotely resembling what you describe. Stop shitting down the throats of people who don't deserve it.
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Armstead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-27-11 07:00 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. So we should be afraid to do or say anything for fear of the Big Bad Media?
Obviously my little statement there was an exaggeration. But too too often they parrot the same message as the GOP with a few minor amendments.

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Arkana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-27-11 07:03 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. No, what we should do is not give them unnecessary talking points.
The protestors have done just fine without Obama's or the DNC's help--and when they win, it won't be because of them.
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Armstead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-27-11 07:41 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. In other words national Democrats are harmful to progress? So they should never do anything?
I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

I happen to believe that Obama and the national Democratic Party can and should have an active and constructive role in issues.

That does not mean "interfering" in the state, but giving them clear and unambiguous national backing. I believe we need more national back up in these issues.

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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-27-11 08:47 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. Deleted message
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Clio the Leo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-27-11 10:04 PM
Response to Reply #12
19. and that is the heart of the issue....
.... anyone who demands that the President of the United States make a blatant, aggressive show regarding a matter involving a STATE budget may have forgotten a few things about the history of this country and the role of the Federal government.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-27-11 07:03 PM
Response to Original message
15. Deleted message
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Clio the Leo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-27-11 09:48 PM
Response to Original message
18. It's the perfect wedge issue for the GOP....
Edited on Sun Feb-27-11 09:49 PM by Clio the Leo
.... by using the same issue, the GOP has the power to make both the left and right mad at the President.

If he does: "Obama is using the unions to control state budgets!" If he doesn't: "Obama is abandoning the Unions!"

It's a stretch, but if the right can convince unions that Obama is no friend of theirs, then they might have a chance at beating him.

Help them out on that if you (all) so choose. I'd rather not.


(this is obviously a general statement, not directed at you Proey)
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Armstead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-27-11 11:52 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. Oh Noes! A wedge issue! Duck!
Every issue of importance is a wedge issue.

us being afraid them is how the other side wins.

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Clio the Leo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-28-11 11:05 AM
Response to Reply #20
22. A wedge issue is how those in power play the electorate...
... play them for a fool with a false outrage.

If you want to think it's a battle cry, that's unfortunate.
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Armstead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-28-11 10:34 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. Gay rights is a wedge issue. Does that mean it is not worth it?
The right wing/GOP have long used gay rights as a wedge issue. it divides the electorate, and is used to manipulate the electorate.

Does that mean it is not an issue worth standing up for?

That is my point. We cannot run away or ignore issues if they are divisive, and can be used by the other side I. A. Attempt to divide and manipulate.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-28-11 05:28 AM
Response to Original message
21. Deleted message
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