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cottonseed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-18-10 12:31 PM
Original message
President Obama corrects Bill and Hillary's greatest mistake!
Edited on Sat Dec-18-10 12:32 PM by cottonseed
Thank you Mr. President for your unwavering commitment to the long fight in repealing DADT!

And thank you for doing it the right way. We all owe you a huge debt of gratitude!
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Lyric Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-18-10 12:32 PM
Response to Original message
1. Hillary? Don't you mean Bill and Newt Gingrich?
Any chance to bash, I guess.

:eyes:
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Freddie Stubbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-20-10 03:11 PM
Response to Reply #1
59. Gingrich was House minority whip when DADT was passed.
Edited on Mon Dec-20-10 03:12 PM by Freddie Stubbs
Democrats controlled both chambers of Congress at the time, and it passed with mostly Democratic support:

http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/r...

http://clerk.house.gov/evs/1993/roll565.xml

As you can see from the House roll call, Gingrich voted against it.
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vaberella Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-18-10 12:33 PM
Response to Original message
2. Hillary's was more of a failure to change health care.
He did however fix BC's fail.
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TheWraith Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-18-10 12:36 PM
Response to Original message
3. That's a little unfair. Clinton didn't really have much choice.
He was backstabbed by Congress which reaffirmed the 1982 ban in statute law, and the DADT guidelines were the best deal he could cut. They were originally supposed to be a lot more protective, allowing servicemembers to do as they liked with their personal lives, but that ended up getting undercut as well.
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vaberella Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-18-10 12:41 PM
Response to Reply #3
9. Yeah...he was in a bind on that one. It was this or no gays at all. n/t
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Starry Messenger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-18-10 12:37 PM
Response to Original message
4. Hillary? What about Colin Powell, Sam Nunn?
What a strange post.
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dbonds Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-18-10 12:38 PM
Response to Original message
5. I read the subject and though Obama pulled out of NAFTA
Edited on Sat Dec-18-10 12:41 PM by dbonds
Yeah, DADT repeal is a great thing. But it is diminished by the 'compromise' deal which sells the future of the US. And NAFTA was Clinton's biggest mistake.

I really didn't see Obama fighting for the repeal. I think the kudo's go to the congress.
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Lilyeye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-18-10 05:00 PM
Response to Reply #5
33. Yet when congress fucks up....its all Obama's fault.
:eyes:
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dbonds Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-18-10 05:07 PM
Response to Reply #33
36. You really think that?
Because if you are implying I said or think that you are wrong. Where would you get a crazy idea like that?
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jberryhill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-18-10 12:38 PM
Response to Original message
6. Think in steps much?

Prior to DADT it was unlawful to be gay and in the military.

DADT legalized military service for gay folks.

It's called a "compromise". It is a step along the way. Like getting from the Constitution as written to the 14th Amendment.

You seem to have lost the point about how we got DADT in the first place, as if repealing it is an end in itself.

If we actually "repealed" DADT, then we would be at a point where being gay in the military was unlawful.
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ProudDad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-20-10 10:21 PM
Response to Reply #6
63. And it ignores the giant Elephant in the room
The "Permanent War Economy(tm)" that's bleeding what's left of USAmerica dry...
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TwilightGardener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-18-10 12:38 PM
Response to Original message
7. I don't blame Clinton for DADT. It was an incremental step in a long journey.
It took the military in the right direction, at the time.
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Phx_Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-18-10 01:59 PM
Response to Reply #7
22. I think that's exactly right.
Big changes don't happen overnight in this country -- it takes incremental steps. Just like HCR is an incremental step to a public option down the road (and hopefully not too far down).
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msongs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-18-10 12:40 PM
Response to Original message
8. it is not repealed "no strings attached" or otherwise yet nt
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vaberella Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-18-10 12:42 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. But we leaped abut 20 steps closer. n/t
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TheKentuckian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-18-10 12:42 PM
Response to Original message
11. That would be deregulation and "free" trade as a tie.
DADT was a shitty compromise but an effort to prevent an outright ban.
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Ozymanithrax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-18-10 12:43 PM
Response to Original message
12. It is a good time to note that until DADT was passed being gay sent you to prison.
in the military.

It was supposed to be a temporary measure.
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tularetom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-18-10 12:44 PM
Response to Original message
13. Bill Clinton made many mistakes
but DADT wasn't one of them.

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Vincardog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-18-10 12:50 PM
Response to Original message
14. I thought NAFTA or the WELFARE to Work fiasco was Big Bills greatest mistake/ or Maybe a blue dress
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Still a Democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-18-10 01:00 PM
Response to Original message
15. DADT was progress at the time
It was that or a ban at the time. DADT was the liberal position. It was a step, and continued to build the case gays served honorably and well.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-18-10 01:04 PM
Response to Original message
16. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Safetykitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-18-10 04:11 PM
Response to Reply #16
29. True, amazing twofer.
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jberryhill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-18-10 01:04 PM
Response to Original message
17. Fail

DADT made gay service legal, with restrictions.

It is those restrictions which are being ended.

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Jennicut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-18-10 01:08 PM
Response to Original message
18. Mistake? At least Clinton had the guts to try and take in on in the first place. 18 years later
Edited on Sat Dec-18-10 01:09 PM by Jennicut
attitudes have changed. Obama had all of the Dem party behind him in the Senate on this, Clinton did not. Do I need to remind anyone of Byrd (whom I loved) was an idiot on this issue back in the early 90's? Clinton and Obama both get my thanks. Repubs never tried to get this changed. They are obviously bigots.
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Pisces Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-18-10 01:09 PM
Response to Original message
19. Go away today. We are celebrating, no use for muckrakers!!
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w4rma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-18-10 01:40 PM
Response to Original message
20. IMHO, their greatest mistake was terminating Glass-Stegall and promoting 'free' trade. (nt)
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mtnsnake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-18-10 01:49 PM
Response to Original message
21. AFAIC, what you are doing is not any different than what Rush Limbaugh does because
you are spinning nonsense for the sake of being divisive. What is even worse is that you are sowing the seeds of hatred towards arguably two of the finest Democrats in our Party, both of whom have thrown their support behind President Obama. It's obvious that you would like to get people to hate the Clintons for sake of building up Obama.

Posts like yours that are geared against the Clintons in a manner such as this are a symptom of a chronic disease that still runs rampant throughout this forum and probably always will.
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egoclothes Donating Member (110 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-18-10 02:04 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. Well said. Thanks for the post.
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Aramchek Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-18-10 02:44 PM
Response to Reply #21
24. you do the same thing except your target is Obama
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mtnsnake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-18-10 03:02 PM
Response to Reply #24
26. You have been following me from thread to thread lying about me like a useless little twit
always saying how I never supported Obama before. Well once again, here is the evidence that you are full of it up to your eyeballs:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
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ProudDad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-20-10 10:22 PM
Response to Reply #21
64. Geez...
If Obama and Clinton are the best what's left of the Democrats can do... :eyes:
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Top Cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-18-10 03:01 PM
Response to Original message
25. k&r
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Liberal_Stalwart71 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-18-10 03:06 PM
Response to Original message
27. Actually, not acting on Rwanda was in my mind Bill's biggest foreign policy
mistake. Repealing Glass-Steagall and NAFTA were his biggest domestic policy mistake.

Not hair to include Hillary in this.
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Autumn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-18-10 04:08 PM
Response to Original message
28. Hillary? I must have missed her term as President,
Damn I hate it when that happens.
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ClarkUSA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-18-10 04:13 PM
Response to Original message
30. K&R... Obama is correcting many of Bubba's worst legislative mistakes.
Edited on Sat Dec-18-10 04:14 PM by ClarkUSA
:toast:
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Nite Owl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-18-10 04:28 PM
Response to Original message
31. Hillary was not an elected official at the time
so there is absolutely no reason to include her. President Clinton presented having gays serve publicly in the military right after he was in office. I don't think he expected to firestorm he got. It was also 18yrs ago so things have changed in public opinion in that time. Some who serve today weren't born or were barely walking at that time.
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Dokkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-18-10 04:57 PM
Response to Original message
32. Repealing Glass - Stegall (sp)
to me was his worst mistake. DADT no matter how bad it is did not cause a recession. Dont forget NAFTA (aka the big sucking sound)
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Lilyeye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-18-10 05:02 PM
Response to Original message
34. It's unfair to include Hillary. Her husband was the President, not her.
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-18-10 05:23 PM
Response to Reply #34
38. Fair? She at one time claimed her husband's experience as her own.
It's understandable that people would think it's fair she share the blame too. :shrug:

link: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/03/14/bills-excounse...

Greg Craig, former counsel to Pres BClinton: "When your entire campaign is based upon a claim of experience, it is important that you have evidence to support that claim. Hillary Clinton's argument that she has passed "the Commander- in-Chief test" is simply not supported by her record."

- snip

"The point that I am making is that her claims of the nature of that experience are overstated. The fact is she did not sit in on national security meetings. She did not have a security clearance. She did not attend meetings in the situation room. She conducted no negotiations. She did not manage any part of the national security bureaucracy. She did not have her own national security staff. That's the fact.

Now the experience that she did have -- watching and sometimes sitting in the room where discussions were going on and also meeting heads of state and foreign ministers -- that is good experience, and it's invaluable to understanding how the world works when it comes to international organizations as well as international negotiations."
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StevieM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-18-10 07:02 PM
Response to Reply #38
39. Well, if you're saying that Obama (and his supporters, like Greg Craig) said that she did and then
they won the election, and history is written by the winners, then I guess you've made your point. Beyond that, not so much.

Hillary never said that her husband's experience was her own. She discussed her own experiences, including things she did as first lady that she felt were relevant to her service.

Steve
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-18-10 07:15 PM
Response to Reply #39
40. Greg Craig was an assistant and Special Counsel to President BClinton, n'est-ce pas?
The rest is primary rehash which I'm not interested in relitigating.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-18-10 07:32 PM
Response to Reply #40
41. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-18-10 07:36 PM
Response to Reply #41
42. Greg Craig was also foreign policy adviser to Ted Kennedy and SOS Madeleine Albright.
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ruggerson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-18-10 09:52 PM
Response to Reply #41
47. +1
n/t
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-19-10 10:01 PM
Response to Reply #47
52. Hmm, not so sure what was so controversial about that post...
...just pointing out the truth.
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StevieM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-18-10 08:11 PM
Response to Reply #40
43. Yes, I do. And I consider that fact completely irrelevant, just like I did when Obama
kept pointing out that some supporters of his (Craig, Reich, etc) once worked for Bill Clinton.

First of all, Hillary isn't Bill, so right there the conversation is over.

Second, I wouldn't even expect people who worked for Bill to be totally on his side forever. The people who worked for Bill Clinton were Democrats. The Democratic president is going to have some connection to countless Democrats, some at very high levels. That doesn't mean that they will support him forever, and always be on his side (let alone his wife's).

Chris Dodd and Bill Richardson ran for president against Hillary; Gary Hart managed McGovern's campaign--before running against him 12 years later; Robert Reich opposed Al Gore's nomination. That was their right, and it wasn't a huge shock. If Bill Clinton was allowed to run again, I suspect that some of these people would have supported Obama over him. For whatever their reasons, they liked Obama more, so they supported him--end of story. And it's a pretty boring story at that.

The way the media treated it like it was shocking news--the sign of a collapsing political machine--is a good example of the type of bias that Hillary faced during that primary.
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-18-10 08:27 PM
Response to Reply #43
44. You have missed the point entirely.
Edited on Sat Dec-18-10 09:09 PM by AtomicKitten
Craig was responding to this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o10lQUm5gKM

HClinton's claims of experience relied heavily on her husband's experience and fibs like Tuzla (let's agree to disagree on this, k?). The point is that in doing so you can't pick and choose, and that's probably why people have a tendency to lump them together. I understand you don't think that is fair. My point was explaining why it happens.
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The Straight Story Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-18-10 05:04 PM
Response to Original message
35. So before Clinton gays could serve? I missed that (nt)
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Petrus Romanus Donating Member (44 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-18-10 05:09 PM
Response to Original message
37. Obama ended NAFTA? nt
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former9thward Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-18-10 09:47 PM
Response to Original message
45. Still fighting the primaries? After two years?
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Starry Messenger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-18-10 09:50 PM
Response to Original message
46. Why is this still open?
The bizarre reference to the First Lady of many years ago should be reason enough. It's like calling out Mrs. Obama for escalation in Afghanistan. Well, just one of those puzzling things in life I guess.
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JohnnyLib2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-18-10 10:03 PM
Response to Reply #46
48. Agreed. Bizarre, inaccurate, provocative.
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Beacool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-20-10 11:40 AM
Response to Reply #46
55. Why is it still open?
Because it's an attack on a Clinton, which around here is just par for the course.

:eyes:
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AndrewP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-20-10 12:39 PM
Response to Reply #55
56. It's par for the course, and it's damn sickening
I guess most of the critics weren't living in 1994? Because considering the environment at that time, DADT was a step in the right direction.

**sigh** I shouldn't even bother, should I?
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Beacool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-20-10 09:57 PM
Response to Reply #56
62. Most of the critics have little historical perspective.
They act as if the political and cultural climate of the 90s was the same as it is today. Clinton put his neck on the line in 1993 trying to get the military to accept gays in their ranks. I guess that some forget the kind of crap he took over it from the Republicans and even from some Democrats in Congress. Ditto for DOGMA. Many forget that this compromise came to be because the Repugs wanted to make it unconstitutional for gays to get married. Nothing occurs in a vacuum.

:-(
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Lisa D Donating Member (317 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-20-10 03:11 PM
Response to Reply #55
58. This is the new DU
You can trash the Clintons or President Obama or any elected democrat, even if the content is false.
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donheld Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-18-10 10:56 PM
Response to Original message
49. I can see someone doesn't know what they're talking about.
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OhioBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-18-10 11:27 PM
Response to Original message
50. Disagree with the premise for several reasons
1. I don't think we can pin DADT on the former first lady
2. I disagree that DADT was Clinton's biggest mistake - he did what he could at the time to actually make progress - I think NAFTA was the biggest mistake - for many reasons.
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Beacool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-19-10 09:20 PM
Response to Original message
51. Is there a point to this thread, other than being divisive, that is.............
First of all, DADT was the best compromise that Clinton could get at the time.

Second, Hillary was neither the president or a member of Congress.

Other than the usual trashing of the Clintons on this board, what is the purpose of all this B.S.?

:shrug:
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-20-10 10:59 PM
Response to Reply #51
66. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
niceypoo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-19-10 10:34 PM
Response to Original message
53. DADT was state of the art at the time
And it wasn't called 'Dont ask dont tell' at the time. It was called 'Dont ask dont tell DONT PERSUE' which was a gigantic leap from where we were before.
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Dr Morbius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-20-10 06:49 AM
Response to Original message
54. As many others have written, President Clinton made bigger mistakes than DADT.
Like the repeal of Glass-Steagal and NAFTA, and failing to act in Rwanda. I think his biggest error was the Telecommunications Act of 1994, which has severely jeopardized freedom of the press.

But President Obama did indeed act to repeal this particular bad law, and he deserves some kudos. I think he also deserves something else, something very few Americans are willing to give him: a little patience. Give the guy some more time, like about two more years, and then judge him objectively. Grading Presidents in the first place is something with which I disagree, but doing so halfway through their terms seems to me quite unfair. Barack Obama has not accomplished everything we have wanted; I am sure he hasn't accomplished everything he wanted, either. But he has gotten some things done, and when compared to other Presidents has a damned impressive work ethic and a record of accomplishments which is stunning. Be patient with him; I think in the end he will not disappoint.
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Freddie Stubbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-20-10 03:08 PM
Response to Original message
57. DADT wasn't a mistake, it was a step in the right direction
Before DADT gays were forbidden from serving at all. DADT was a necessary step toward equality.
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krawhitham Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-20-10 04:57 PM
Response to Original message
60. This thread should be about NAFTA
With a headline like that
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Honeycombe8 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-20-10 06:59 PM
Response to Original message
61. It wasn't a mistake. It was an advance at that time. It was all that was possible at that time.
Maybe you're too young to remember. It was considered far reaching, far left, and an advancement in gay rights at the time. It was anything but a mistake.
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mitchtv Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-20-10 10:46 PM
Response to Original message
65. Hillary?
there goes your credibility
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