Good riddance to BashthePresident Underground...

[TreasonousBastard]

where there is rarely any good news, and even then every silver lining must have a cloud. A dark and stormy cloud. Lightning, thunder, and huge hailstones.

Where it's OK to bash Obama at every turn and whine and complain at every little thing, but posts complaining about it get deleted. And where it's always the fault of Democrats in Washington when anything goes wrong or we didn't get our ponies.

There's real work to be done, and it doesn't get done posting on a board. Much less a board that spends all its time complaining and proposing no solutions.

(I'll check back to see how long it takes for this to disappear.)

[hobbit709]

1. whatever you say.

[DevonRex]

2. Those of us who just check in every now and then know how you feel.

[Bluerthanblue]

5. yes-

[tekisui]

3. Reality sucks, huh?

[jefferson_dem]

35. If by "reality"...

you mean the focus and demeanor of some on this board... Yes, that does suck.

[Andy823]

4. K&R nt.

[Scurrilous]

6. I know how you feel.

Good luck.

[stopbush]

7. Yep. I'm about to take a long break from DU myself.

I deleted my DU bookmark months ago. At this point, the bash Obama crapola rivals Freeperville.

I've been at DU pretty much from Day One. I guess I'm getting too old for the relentless assault on our president and anybody who agrees with him. From the look of things, long-time DUers are ready to bolt en masse.

[No Passaran]

10. Since 2001

here.. I think it's time for a long break

[No Passaran]

8. Too many trolls have taken over this site

Just like that fake "black person not voting for Obama" thread.

[Scurrilous]

19. You mean the one with the stock baby pic that everyone was cooing over?

[No Passaran]

26. exactly

They can post a picture of Palin and her moronic family and say something like "Obama doesn't care about regular American families" and morons would gush over it and comment on how beautiful and traditional that poor family is.

[11 Bravo]

9. K&R. To the Greatest, (at least until the usual suspects knock it back down).

[Davis_X_Machina]

11. Hear, hear! Well said, the man!. As Lenin teaches us...

...the proletarian can always vote with his feet.

[frylock]

12. i thought this place was bushpolicyisnowgood underground?

i guess one's POV is entirely dependant upon where you stand.

[niceypoo]

14. Supplysideunderground

[Name removed]

13. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[No Passaran]

15. "we"

who?

[niceypoo]

20. Do your accept Obama's walk on the supply side?

If you do, you are not amongst 'we.'

'We' = traditional Democrats

[No Passaran]

22. you don't wanna go there

[niceypoo]

30. Yes I do

I want to go there

[Bluerthanblue]

54. your attitude betrays you-

"lib·er·al (lbr-l, lbrl)
adj.
1.
a. Not limited to or by established, traditional, orthodox, or authoritarian attitudes, views, or dogmas; free from bigotry.
b. Favoring proposals for reform, open to new ideas for progress, and tolerant of the ideas and behavior of others; broad-minded.
c. Of, relating to, or characteristic of liberalism.
d. Liberal Of, designating, or characteristic of a political party founded on or associated with principles of social and political liberalism, especially in Great Britain, Canada, and the United States.

[stopbush]

36. I guess "traditional Ds" traditionally hang the unemployed out to dry

by not accepting any legislation that isn't a pure as the driven snow.

They also like to cherry pick their data, like the threads here yesterday screaming "taxes will go up under the Obama compromise!!!", while failing to note that they will go up even higher if there is no compromise.

I'm a lifelong D who cast his first presidential vote in 1972. I've never missed a presidential election. I've been a union member (Teamsters; AGMA). I've raised $ and donated $ to D causes for decades. I'm as traditional as it gets when it comes to being a D, and one of the traditions that Ds USED to have was SUPPORTING THE PRESIDENT WHEN HE WAS A MEMBER OF OUR OWN FUCKING PARTY.

To see this compromise only through the prism of the giveaway to the rich through a two-year extension of the tax cuts is not only embracing a flawed strategy, it is embracing a strategy that has a high collateral damage component.

I don't like the giveaway to the rich, but that giveaway is the smallest part of the compromise. To toss out all of the good progressive incentives in that legislation to make a purist point - while insuring that we'll get nothing in return or WORSE once the Rs take over the House - is naive at best, stupid at worst.

You can whine all you want about what traditional Ds feel. This one isn't buying it.

[struggle4progress]

51. +

[No Passaran]

57. hear hear

[RaleighNCDUer]

62. How about the coming privitzatioin of SS? You want THAT shit sandwich?

The 'payroll tax holiday' has been proposed by REPUBLICAN for decades, because it blurs the distinction between SS and the general funds, making it easier to go there again in the future while at the same same underminding the solvency of the program. That's real progressive. How about that 'progressive' estate tax, which would have reverted to Clinton era $1 million exemption and a rate of 55% - now it's going to be $5million exemption and 35% - removing BILLIONS from the revenue while doing NOTHING for the middle class (much less the poor).

So worried about the unemployed? What about the 99ers, who get NOTHING from this?

This package siphons off billions for the rich, does nothing to reduce unemployment or creat jobs, and will untimately INCREASE unemployment as the rich have even more funds to invest in overseas enterprises.

You didn't watch a single minute of Sanders' floor speech, did you.

[stopbush]

70. I watched some of Sanders' speech.

I'm glad he made it. Someone has to lay it out there.

But nobody in the Senate - D or R - is going to follow Bernie's lead on anything.

I could have done without the stretching of the truth. For instance, when Bernie produced his chart showing how much money the Walton's of Wal*Mart would make if the bush tax rates were made permanent. WTF? Nobody is saying to make them permanent in this compromise. Why not paint a picture if ALL taxes were eliminated while you're at it, Bernie? These kinds of "arguments" aren't at all helpful because they're as make believe as religion.

As far as SS, there's a reality that you're ignoring, and that is that SS is currently treated as a slush fund for the general fund because SS takes in more than it spends right now. BY LAW, that overage goes into the general fund where it is spent on all kinds of things, while the SS fund is handed an IOU that nobody in their right mind believes will ever be paid back.

So, if there's a tax holiday for a year or two that basically eliminates part of the overpayment to SS, what's the big harm? That money wasn't going to be sitting in the SS trust fund anyhow. The holiday means that there is less to borrow for the general fund.

As far as the 99ers getting nothing, you're right there. But your "solution" seems to be to reject the deal and get nothing for ANYBODY on unemployment, 26ers along with the 99ers.

As far as the Estate Tax - more than one commentator has pointed out that that is in there as a bargaining chip, a chip that the Rs are willing to forgo if it means securing the tax cuts for the wealthy. But even if it stays in, it's not only temporary, it's part of the sausage making that is the legislative process.

I'm sorry, but the Congressional Ds brought much of this on themselves by not dealing with these tax cuts when they could have, by running away from Obama's legislative victories and by not forcing the hand of the Rs in the two years they had with majorities in both houses.

Obama is doing triage here -trying to get SOMETHING for those who actually need it before the Rs take over and the needy get nothing.

You and the other purists are hell bent on seeing that happen.

[high density]

16. Endorsing the Bush Tax Cuts is not a "little thing"

This comes after Obama's campaign platform where the idea was to let the tax cuts expire for the rich. He probably said it in nearly every campaign speech. Now, instead of negotiating taxes before the election when we had some power, we wait for the lame duck session and witness massive capitulation.

[niceypoo]

40. It makes Obama a 'Neodem'

Neodems vs Traditional Democrats

[otohara]

56. Exactly - As Biden Would Say

"it's a big fucking deal"

I was blindsided and now we're not supposed to be pissed?

Huge fucking deal IMO!

[John Q. Citizen]

17. i danced in the streets when Obama won, and now I have to take responsibilty and stop the attack

on Social Security.

If you want to start up "Obama Underground" be my guest.

This place is a whole lot bigger than Obama.

But your site can worship Obama, if you want to. Let us know the url when you get it going in case some of us get a hankering to worship.


You know, I love Obama the man. i just don't agree with many of his pro-corporatist anti-people policies.


When he does stuff I like, I praise him long and loudly. When he does stuff that are against my interests, I stand up for my interests.

i think you need a website that only allows people with your own exact opinion to belong as registered members, you would be a lot happier.

personally, i'm glad that their are a lot of differing opinions on this site, because I learn things.

[stopbush]

21. "This place is a whole lot bigger than Obama." That's delusional.

The man has his finger on the trigger simply by virtue of being president, and you think a blog is bigger than him?

Again, delusional.

[No Passaran]

24. so true n/t

[Cant trust em]

27. I think the point was that this blog is more about the party as a whole.

The party and movement shouldn't be just about the president.

[stopbush]

53. I've got news for you - when your Party controls the WH, the Party IS the WH.

Rs get that, which is why they have basically ruled the WH for 20 out of the past 30 years.

Ds don't get that, which is why they are so quick to turn on a president of their own party, labeling him a sellout after only two years in office, and enforcing a RW narrative about the president AND the Party that has the RW dancing in the aisles at our knack for self-immolation.

The attacks on the president IGNORE everything he accomplished in the first two years. They IGNORE that FACT that the Senate under Harry REID got almost nothing done when compared to the House, that THEY kicked the bush tax cut can down the road for two years, even though Obama asked them to make it a campaign issue this year.

So, Obama gets backed into a corner by his own party, and when he's basically forced to extend the tax cuts for the rich to get unemployment benefits extended, to extend the Earned Income and Child tax credits, and to get a major stimulus package through, those same Ds who didn't have the FUCKING POLITICAL GUTS to do something about it when it might have actually made a difference in the midterms are now outdoing themselves in how they can dis Obama the most for their own lack of vision.

And people at DU are rushing to 1. defend these spineless Congress critters while 2. embracing the RW mantra that "deficits are everything" while 3. reinforcing every bad thing the Rs have said about Obama since the campaign of 2008, by buying the RW memes hook line and sinker because, "it's more about the Party as a whole?"

WTF????

[Cant trust em]

72. Good luck getting people to believe that it's the president who tells people what to think

The president should be taking his stances from voters in the party, not the other way around.

The white house can represent the party obviously, but I would rather have that representation be accurate for what the base thinks. We shouldn't just be forced to go along with it because its politically expedient for now. How else are we to expect our leaders to represent our ideas if we're not able to hold them accountable? Why should it be only republicans who get to have their base represented, while we should always play to the middle?

[dave29]

64. it extends well beyond the party

at this point

[RaleighNCDUer]

46. "This place" = a site that is representative of Democratic party ideals

programs and platforms, and opposed to Reagan/Bush supplyside economics and the politics of fundamentalism. DU is a microcosm of the party, and the party BETTER be bigger than the president that it elected - otherwise, we are venturing into some pretty weird territory.

When the 'Democratic' president backs RW, Republican fundamentals (supply-sideism, deconstructing SS, a 'constant war' economy & foreign policy) as being his 'compromise' positions, it is up to the party to rein him in or replace him.

[sammytko]

65. yea, that was pretty funny - DU bigger than Obama - never

[Bluerthanblue]

I do not "worship" Pres.Obama- But there are

many MANY posts here that attack the Pres. on all kinds of levels- equating him to a "wife-beater", doing arm-chair psychology claiming that it was his lack of a father that makes him adverse to conflict- calling him a Republican, all sorts of other ofensive crap.

THAT isn't constructive criticism. That isn't criticising his policies or actions- that is the politics of character assisination- something that doesn't do anything except harm ALL of us who belong to DU.

Is your sarcastic and flippant suggestion that the OP create a site for 'worshiping Obama' an example of how you "stand up for your interests" ?

You don't OWN DU- any more than any of us do.

If you are truly glad that there are alot of "differing opinions on this site" then you'd encourage people to STAY- not leave.

There is a VAST difference between criticism and bashing and there's been a hell of a lot of bashing going on here lately.

[RaleighNCDUer]

52. And you have just defined the difference between critics and trolls -

and for those who refuse to discriminate between them, I say 'good riddance'.

As I also say to those who claim that Sanders or Kucinich are "working for the Republicans" due to their votes against Obama sell-out policies being equated with Republican votes that come from a diametrically opposite direction.

It's very simple - if you support the President as he is supporting Republican policy, you are supporting Republican policy.

A shit sandwich will always be a shit sandwich, no matter who is serving it up.

[Bluerthanblue]

68. I'm not opposed to the criticism of policy- that's healthy AND often

times helpful-

It's the character assassination. It's not new to DU as I know you know- But it's been legion here lately.

I was really impressed by the way that Dennis Kucinich came out to urge passage of the Health Care Reform bill- and I know it wasn't easy for him. He had clearly put lots of agonizing thought into it- and there were many here who said terrible things about him as a result.

That- is wrong. Criticize the action, or the policy all you like. Leave the person AND their family alone. imo.

[ProudDad]

58. If it smells like a duck, and walks like a duck, and swims like a duck... (n/t)

[Bluerthanblue]

71. nice idiom.

it doesn't fit however.

Criticizing a policy is NOT the same as destroying a person's character.

The first is acceptable, and often helpful. The second is childish, cowardly and rude.

[lunatica]

18. Isn't it Assangeisatraitor democratic underground?

[Cant trust em]

25. How can he be a traitor if he isn't American?

He has no allegiance to the US.

[lunatica]

29. I know. That's why I posted it hoping I wouldn't need the sarcasm gif

Because just today I've seen both sides lamenting how the other side won't let them post anything. That's patently ridiculous. Everyone here is free to post. And I've also seen posts where people still support Obama yet are deeply disappointed.

[Cant trust em]

32. Honestly, I don't have much to say about the Wikileaks controversy.

You mean to say that the US Government is up to some shady shit? Really?

Assange shouldn't be the one to take the heat, but rather the people who are leaking the information in the first place.

[lunatica]

39. Daniel Ellsberg agrees with and supports Assange on this

The people leaking these things are also called whistleblowers. As far as I know they aren't getting rich with the leaks. What could be their motivation then? I think it might just be patriotism and doing the right thing.

[Cant trust em]

44. Whistleblowers is usually a corporate term.

State secrets typically are a different category with a different set of punishments and consequences. Sometimes you play with fire and get burned. I hope they think its worth it if they are willing to take the chance on getting caught.

Again, this isn't something I'm passionate about.

[RaleighNCDUer]

48. Or, perhaps, the people doing the shady shit to begin with. nt

[Cant trust em]

66. That is a completely plausible explanation. nt

[Cant trust em]

23. I love the President, but if he doesn't like getting bashed by the left...

then he should do more to support its issues.

I'm on the more supportive end on the spectrum around here, but I don't in any way support people around here taking their foot off the gas. While there are some unfair criticisms of him around here and other unwise talking points, I support their ability and need to voice their disapproval. We just have to find a way to maintain our big tent.

That being said, I also don't like the less supportive side trying to call out the more supportive side for being unthinking republican wannabes.

[lunatica]

31. I agree with you

And I still hold out hope that maybe circumstances will force Obama to act differently. Sometimes the times are what make people great.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

28. Well

Many of the same people who are the loudest in opposing Obama and disrespecting anybody who deigns to defend him are the same people who were the loudest in supporting Obama and disrespecting anybody who dared to oppose him during the primaries.

It's an authoritarian mindset which reminds me of Il Duce who went from being a socialist to a fascist but retained the same fervor.

[Scurrilous]

34. LOL

[Warren Stupidity]

33. Every turn? No. Only when we are betrayed.

This was a complete betrayal. Deal with it. Leave if you must. I refuse to cheerlead Republicanism no matter who is advocating it.

[GreenPartyVoter]

37. +1,000,000

[Name removed]

38. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[struggle4progress]

41. I know this feeling all too well

[mtnsnake]

42. Did you have the same sense of outrage when it was BashHillary Underground a few years ago?

There's real work to be done, and it doesn't get done posting on a board. Much less a board that spends all its time complaining and proposing no solutions.

I will agree with you on that 150%, and then some.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

47. See Post Twenty Eight

.

[mtnsnake]

61. Good post.

thanks for pointing it out.

[KansasVoter]

43. Door....Ass....you get it.

[Bluerthanblue]

49. is this an example of a 'true progressive attitude'?

If so, we clearly don't agree.

[KansasVoter]

50. Sorry, tired of people whining. If you don't like the DU then leave. No need for drama.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

55. At Least Kansas Isn't Saying To Execute Him Which Is How They Normally Handle Apostates

But how can a Democrat supporting a Democratic president on a Democratic board be an apostate.

The irony...

[Name removed]

59. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Lyric]

45. Yawn.

Yet another hypocritically whiny, GBCW thread about people who refuse to think and do what YOU want them to. If you wanna take your toys and go home because *gasp* other Democrats have opinions that vary wildly from your own, well then...by all means...

[ZombieHorde]

60. DU would be boring if we all agreed. nt

[JackRiddler]

63. Rec for wrong.

[That Guy 888]

67. I'd be happy to see an end to New Democrat Coalition - Democratic Leadership Council Underground n/t

[bowens43]

69. later........ nt

[CJCRANE]

73. Stick around. Add your voice.

The thing I've learned about DU is that you can't win every argument but at least your opinion is in the mix.

[rasputin1952]

74. Locking...

This OP discusses DU policy and questions should be directed to ATA.