It's happening: Obama is making a bee-line for Social Security and Medicare

[brentspeak]

From his interview with NPR yesterday:

http://www.npr.org/2010/12/10/131949362/transcript-obam...

INSKEEP: Won't Republicans argue — and, in fact, won't reality argue that any cuts will have to be even deeper because this package that you're pushing for now will mean there's even less government revenue?

OBAMA: Actually, I think that if you talk to economists, both conservative and liberal, what they'll say is the problem is not next year. The problem is, how are we dealing with our medium-term debt and deficit, and how are we dealing with our long-term debt and deficit? And most of that has to do with entitlements, particularly Social Security and Medicaid.

We've made some progress as a consequence of my health care bill in identifying areas where we can start bending the cost curve on health care. But we're going to have some more work to do across the budget.

But there are very few people who think that we would be better off if we've got a contracting economy or economy that's growing very little over the next year — that that somehow is going to be good for our deficit.

So, according to Obama, the problems with our long-term debt and deficits aren't due to useless wars and lopsided trade imbalances and skewed-to-the-rich tax policies, but rather to the "entitlement" programs (Obama's choice of word) which have their own separate funding.

It's beginning.

[polichick]

1. I've been warning Dems in the real world about this for months...

They don't want to believe it, but say they won't stand for it - so we'll see.

[Enrique]

2. it's all in your mind

take your meds, they told me, when I drew the same conclusion from the same interview.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

[brentspeak]

4. Thanks, I didn't see your thread

And yup, the same characters are out in force to shout down everyone who can see what's happening.

[louslobbs]

66. Just a note

The people who told you to take your meds, just forgot to take theirs.
Lou

[StarsInHerHair]

77. since people PAY into Social Sec WITH THEIR OWN $ it is NOT an entitlement

nt

[cpwm17]

100. It is an entitlement

We're entitled to the money because we paid for it. The word entitlement has been distorted for political reasons. It's been turned into a synonym to welfare.

[StarsInHerHair]

103. that's why I pointed out the difference

nt

[QC]

3. Only Nixon could go to China....

[rug]

9. +1

[Citizen Worker]

70. ...and only Bill Clinton could ram through NAFTA, GATT, WTO and "end welfare as we know it." And so

it will be with Obama killing Social Security. Something Bush tried and could not do. Leave it to a New Democrat, DLC, Third Way, No Label nominal democrat to do what others have tried and failed.

Is it time for a second political party or are we all going over the cliff with the business parties?

[Cherchez la Femme]

88. I would love to see

where the Democratic Party would be if DLC was never created... probably still true to its (modern) roots.

Personally I think it's their direct influence for the cowardice extant in the Democratic politicians these past few decades...

[Scurrilous]

5. Fancy that!

[NorthCarolina]

6. The payroll tax holiday is just the poison pill needed to get it done too.

Take one annually until all signs of Social Security disappear.

[sasha031]

7. I smell Cat food

[NorthCarolina]

24. from the Dented Can Store. nt

[jaxx]

8. Obama backs boosting revenue for US Social Security

WASHINGTON | Thu Oct 14, 2010 6:33pm EDT

WASHINGTON Oct 14 (Reuters) - President Barack Obama said on Thursday he favored raising more revenue for Social Security to prolong the solvency of the U.S. retirement fund, rather than just cutting benefits or making people work longer.

Obama told a televised youth town hall event that he thought the best approach was to increase the amount of income subject to Social Security taxes above the current cap set around $106,000, but he did not rule anything out.

"I have said that all options are on the table. I think we've got to look at how we preserve it for the next generation," he said.

"I do think that the best way to do it would be to look at the fact that right now, you only pay Social Security taxes to about $106,000, and after that you don't pay any Social Security tax," he said. "That could be modified or changed in a way that would help extend the solvency of Social Security."

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSN1415068220101014

The President says raise the ceiling on SS taxes.

[Life Long Dem]

12. Don't you know some here would rather be fortune tellers?

They would rather paint a picture of the sky falling.

[jaxx]

15. Yeah I know, but I'm sick of their storybook predictions.

[Life Long Dem]

28. Same here.

They've been doing this for 2 years now.

[Hydra]

59. You mean like the ones that happened already?

Like how the Gulf is fine and we got our Public option?

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

84. I agree with raising(actually, removing) the cap.

Now predict how this passes the House/Senate.

Non-storybook answer: It won't.

[Cherchez la Femme]

90. What's storybook worthy?

That the Pres has caved & had back-room meetings/agreements with Repuglicans only?
Those are facts.

Or believing what Obama avers but consistently delivers the opposite of?

--that's the very definition of insanity: expecting a different outcome from the same exact, static and well-proven parameters

From unfortunate experience, what belongs in a story book is where Obama's actions match his rhetoric.

[DJ13]

18. rather than JUST cutting benefits or making people work longer

It sounds like he wants to increase the tax, AND lower the benefits.

[jaxx]

21. No, it doesn't.

[emulatorloo]

26. Agreed - His push with HCR was to reduce Medicare FRAUD. ( from Vendors.)

That;s what he referenced in this context. It is a big leap to claim he is going to destroy Social Security from a paragraph about government efficiency

Note that all Republicans claimed he was killing Medicare, when he was working to get rid of fraud.

[dgibby]

31. He also said he was for the public option,

then he said he never campaigned on the public option(even though there's video of him doing just that, but never mind our lying eyes and ears), but the one thing he said that I believe you could take to the bank is this:

"I AM A NEW DEMOCRAT."

I must admit that I was remiss when he said that, in that I did not thank him for putting his cards on the table and telling us exactly where he was coming from and what he stood for.

I'm so happy he did that. Now I don't have to waste time or energy trying to figure out his next move or what he really thinks about progressives and liberals. It's been very liberating to not have to hope for change anymore.

[jaxx]

33. Change is Happening.

It's going to continue.

[niceypoo]

36. More supply side will boost revenues, right?

[ProudDad]

39. Wish he'd make up his mind...

Oh, that's right, he already has...

"What's good for Big Business is good for America."

Gee, now where did I hear that before...?

[Exilednight]

56. Obama, also, said that he would eliminate the Bush tax cuts for those making over 250k. Those .....

that don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

[Cherchez la Femme]

89. Suuurre... I'm sold!

Obama's words always match his actions...

[oasis]

101. Add that one to the long list of policies the President "favors".

But when it comes down to acting on them it becomes a totally different story.

[laugle]

104. I just don't

believe a damn word he says anymore...........he no longer has any credibility. And we have already seen that he lacks the courage of his convictions and the ability to fight!

very sad................

[ladjf]

10. Obama is turning out to be the the "Republicans Greatest Dream". nt

[laugle]

105. And the saddest

part is--he doesn't even realize they are out to destroy him........hell old turtle face Mitch put it bluntly; "were out to make him a 1 term president!" Can't get any clearer than that.

[Vicar In A Tutu]

11. there are many ways of reading that

If the programs can be operated more efficiently without people who need them losing out, that's worth looking at. If there's evidence of wanton slashing and the non-wealthy penalised, I'll agree with you then.

[ProSense]

13. Or it could mean this

THE PRESIDENT: Yes. Here’s the situation with Social Security. It is actually true that Social Security is not in crisis the way our health care system is in crisis. I mean, when you think about the big entitlement programs, you've got Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid. These are the big programs that take up a huge portion of the federal budget. Social Security is in the best shape of any of these, because basically the cost of Social Security will just go up with ordinary inflation, whereas health care costs are going up much faster than inflation.

It is true that if we continue on the current path with Social Security, if we did nothing on Social Security, that at a certain point, in maybe 20 years or so, what would happen is that you start seeing less money coming into the payroll tax, because the population is getting older so you've got fewer workers, and more people are collecting Social Security so more money is going out, and so the trust fund starts dropping.

And if we did nothing, then somewhere around 2040 what would happen would be a lot of the young people who would start collecting Social Security around then would find that they only got 75 cents on every dollar that they thought they were going to get. Everybody with me so far?
All right. So slowly we're running out of money.

But the fixes that are required for Social Security are not huge, the way they are with Medicare. Medicare, that is a real problem. If we don't get a handle on it, it will bankrupt us. With Social Security, we could make adjustments to the payroll tax. For example -- I'll just give you one example -- right now, your Social Security -- your payroll tax is capped at $109,000. So what that means is, is that -- how many people -- I don't mean to pry into your business, but how many people here make less than $109,000 every year? (Laughter.) All right, this is a pretty rich audience -- a lot of people kept their hands down. (Laughter.) I'm impressed. (Laughter.)

No, look, what it means is basically for 95 percent of Americans, they pay -- every dollar you earn, you pay into the payroll tax. But think about that other 5 percent that's making more than $109,000 a year. Warren Buffett, he pays the payroll tax on the first $109,000 he makes, and then for the other $10 billion -- (laughter) -- he doesn't pay payroll tax.

So -- yes, somebody said, "What?" (Laughter.) Yes, that's right. That's the way it works.

So what we've said is, well, don't we -- doesn't it make sense to maybe have that payroll tax cut off at a higher level, or have people -- maybe you hold people harmless till they make $250,000 a year, but between $250,000 and a million or something, they start paying payroll tax again -- just to make sure that the fund overall is solvent.

So that would just be one example. That's not the only way of fixing it, but if you made a slight adjustment like that, then Social Security would be there well into the future and it would be fine. All right? (Applause.)

link

Senator Sanders:

<...>

“If we are serious about making Social Security strong and solvent for the next 75 years, President Obama has the right solution. On October 14, 2010, he restated a long-held position that the cap on income subject to Social Security payroll taxes, now at $106,800, should be raised. As the president has long stated, it is absurd that billionaires pay the same amount into the system as someone who earns $106,800.

<...>

[Name removed]

16. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[slipslidingaway]

22. "Medicare, that is a real problem. If we don't get a handle on it, it will bankrupt us. "

Exactly, it was the perfect time to talk about this with the American people during the HC non-debate instead of silencing SP advocates. Even if the votes were not there, the discussion could have been advanced by including them, instead they were pretty much left out.

Same thing for negotiating Medicare prescriptions with the drug companies, but that promise was forgotten when Obama made a deal with Billy Tauzin.

And we leave the profitable customers, who do not use the HC as much, to the private companies.

[ProSense]

29. Yeah, that's a statement made

before the President signed health care reform into law, addressing the issue.

Krugman: Bending The Curve

[ProudDad]

40. As he took the ONLY effective method "off the table"

The ENTIRE Civilized world has taken the profit out of provision of Health Care and have better results at lower cost..

AND PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE DON"T GIVE ME THAT 60 VOTE BULLSHIT AGAIN!!!!

[slipslidingaway]

62. Exactly, just as in 1993 - It's Time for a Real Debate on National Health Insurance - by Jeff Cohen

More links ...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Single-payer was marginalized and taken off the table during the Clinton health reform debate. We are repeating the same mistakes in 2009 by ignoring the polls which say that the majority prefer a government run, national health insurance, system similar to Medicare.


It's Time for a Real Debate on National Health Insurance

May 12,1993

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Norman_Solomon/Violen...

"...Instead, they gathered in front of the New York Times building, and their demand was simple: "Stop rationing health care news!" The protesters are angry over the fact that the newspaper's reporting routinely downplays a popular proposal-endorsed by 12 of New York City's 14 members of Congress-to overhaul the American health system: a singlepayer system of publicly-financed health care.

Poll after poll has shown that most Americans favor tax-financed national health insurance. But at the New York Times and other national media, proponents are kept at the periphery of the health care debate. They include 58 members of Congress who, on March 3 <1993>, introduced a bill-"The American Health Security Act"-to establish a Canadian-style, single-payer system.

...Critics dismiss managed competition as a bureaucratic hoax that should be renamed the "Insurance Industry Preservation Act." They warn that the freedom to choose one's own doctor would be eroded. They say it's absurd to leave "reform" to the Jackson Hole group of special interests who profit from the inefficient status quo.

...Managed competition was the subject of a lengthy MacNeil-Lehrer NewsHour discussion on May 5 <1993>..."


Extra! July/August 1993

Healthcare Reform: Not Journalistically Viable?

http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=1519

"In an October 1992 editorial, the New York Times proclaimed that "the debate over healthcare reform is over. Managed competition has won." This outcome, the Times announced (10/10/92), was "delicious" and "wondrous."

...The media slant in favor of managed competition seen before the 1992 election (see Extra!, 1-2/93) continues. While the phrase "managed competition" appeared in 62 New York Times news stories in the six months following the 1992 election, "single-payer" appeared in only five news stories during that period--never in more than a single-sentence mention.

...The justification media managers give for the imbalance of attention is that while managed competition is supported by the Clinton administration, a single-payer system is not "politically viable." What this means is that news judgements are based on elite preferences, not on popular opinion: The New York Times' own polling since 1990 has consistently found majorities--ranging from 54 percent to 66 percent--in favor of tax-financed national health insurance..."

[ProudDad]

41. And Enhanced and Improved Medicare for All

would have done the job...

But that was "off the table" from the beginning thanks to another major back-room deal he made with the corpo's...

The fix was in with the health insurance mafia and Big PhRMA before Obama even took office...

[hulka38]

27. And then again, it might not mean that.

Obama was citing upping the payroll tax as one example and that there are other ways of making SS solvent. It doesn't sound like he's advocating for that method strongly but rather just suggesting that it could be done that way.

"So what we've said is...'doesn't it make sense to maybe have that payroll tax cut...'"
And the Republicans are going to answer, "Hell no. It doesn't make any sense to us at all. Agree to big cuts or we'll...."

[ProudDad]

42. And he hasn't done shit since then about ACTUALLY DOING IT!

[704wipes]

97. So he should have got the CAP raised in return for payroll cut

And he didn't get that. So he is still a great negotiator playing some invisible 3D chess strategy, right? Right.

[slipslidingaway]

14. Entitlement reform - Obama in 2009 ...

Obama Pledges Entitlement Reform
http://demopedia.democraticunderground.com/discuss/dubo...


Obama targets "entitlements" Social Security/Medicare to Reduce $1.2 Trillion Budget Deficit
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

"Changes in Social Security and Medicare will be central to efforts to bring federal spending in line, President-elect Barack Obama said Wednesday, as the Congressional Budget Office projected a $1.2 trillion budget deficit for the fiscal year.

“We expect that discussion around entitlements will be a part, a central part” of efforts to curb federal spending, Mr. Obama said at a news conference. By February, he said, “we will have more to say about how we’re going to approach entitlement spending."


WE DON'T NEED CUTS IN ENTITLEMENT SPENDING!

http://upload.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard...

"I'm disgusted at the headlines I'm seeing that say, "Campaign to cut entitlement spending growing in U.S."

People are screaming about fiscal responsibility and our maddening national debt. But the REASON we have this debt is because

A. We're paying for two unfunded wars, neither of which have any end in sight,
B. Billionaires in this country don't pay taxes because they sock it away in the Caymens and Switzerland.
C. Billionaires in this country are crooks who cheat and steal to make their fortunes while
D. Our jobs are being sent overseas by corporations who also don't pay taxes, and
D. We were tricked into following Wall Street toward a cliff, and then getting shoved in front when we got to it.

And how do we fix it? Well according to the right, we need to take money from people who receive welfare, social security and Medicare. WHAT IS WRONG WITH THIS GODDAMN PICTURE!!??
......"

[sasha031]

20. K&R

[dgibby]

32. +1 n/t

[ProudDad]

43. That Obama even uses the bullshit right-wing word "entitlement"

Instead of the (now antique?) Democratic language "Safety net"...

Shows where his REAL interests lie...

[StarsInHerHair]

78. WAR BONDS may help, they worked before, but hey, what do I know?

nt

[John Q. Citizen]

17. Yep. As of Friday, my 2 Dem Sens have no position, and now we are hearing a vote on Monday? This is

being hustled through and we aren't being given any choices. It's bend over.


Play time is over and they are going after everything our parents, uncles and aunts and grandparents fought and died for.

[democracy1st]

19. K & R for later

[Dinger]

23. KIck & Rec & Bookmarked

To see how this plays out.

[emulatorloo]

25. He referenced HCR, which cut Medicare FRAUD. not benefits,--> FRAUD

You are word parsing and over-reaching, IMHO.

[zalinda]

30. The problem with this thinking

is that Social Security IS NOT FUNDED BY THE GOVERNMENT. Payroll SS payments go into a separate account (or should) and has nothing to do with the deficit. Using 'entitlements' is a Republican meme. Either Obama is stupid or he really believes this crap.

zalinda

[boppers]

52. The Social Security Trust fund invested in US government T-Bills.

As a result, the amount owed in the future is part of the debt, and deficit (ongoing costs to service the huge debt).

It's a pretty screwed up system.

[zalinda]

67. So what you are saying is

we have to cut what we pay into social security, so we can cut the deficit? Or we pay less to those who paid into SS in good faith, because investing in the government T-bills caused the deficit? Like paying for a large pizza, but only getting a medium one because the pizza parlor would have to borrow more money?

Screwed up is a tame term for this theft.

zalinda

[boppers]

80. That's not what I'm saying.

I was saying that the two are related, despite claims to the contrary.

As far as theft goes, it's a bit like the US investing SS funds into, oh... housing. Since there's no guarantee that housing will always be worth more in ten years than it is now, the money was essentially gambled with.

In less words: "Investments should not be used for investment purposes", because there is no such thing as a "sure thing".

[niceypoo]

34. The CBO says otherwise

The CBO says ending all of the Bush tax cuts will BALANCE the budget by 2014

WTF is wrong with this guy? Why does he care what supply siders think?

[polichick]

35. What kind of Democrat makes a bee-line for Social Security and Medicare? nt

[bvar22]

37. It actually began with the Health Insurance "Reform".

Medicare was de-funded by $500 Billion to help "pay" for the "subsidies" which WILL be handed over directly to the For Profit Health Insurance Cartel.

[democracy1st]

44. good call

[ProudDad]

46. Medicare wasn't "defunded"

That was the republican propaganda frame...

The over-priced Medicare Advantage (republican) giveaway to private insurance corporations was cut...

In order to shovel that same money and MUCH MORE into the coffers of the health insurance mafia...

Bizarro world, eh?

[slipslidingaway]

60. Extra Payments to Medicare Advantage Plans - only a portion of the savings ...

from Medicare that is to be used to finance HC reform will come from Medicare Advantage.

Medicare will see enrollment grow from 46 million to 79 million in the next two decades when the baby boomers move from private insurance to Medicare.

One would think that most savings from MA plans, fraud and improvement from efficiencies remain in the Medicare plan to help with the expected rise in enrollment.

Links here, but this is from last year...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

[ProudDad]

87. It was NOT a "health care reform" bill...

It's was a 'forcing inadequate for-profit "health insurance" on 30 million of the 60 million "uncovered"' Bill...

Almost NO health care reform was in the "health insurance corporation and Big PhRMA Stimulus Act of 2010"...


The excess payment for Medicare Advantage IS the $400 billion being discussed though...

[GinaMaria]

95. It was also about transferring costs to the middle class

How did open enrollment look for those of you with employer benefits?

Are you paying a larger chunk of the premium costs? With a much higher deductible? With higher co-pays? And lower reimbursement %? = more cost to you. We are looking at a tremendous amount out of pocket over the next year. My husband and I will likely deplete what we have in savings and still not be able to pay for health care. We are trying to figure out how to reduce his medications so that we can lower our costs. It will negatively impact his health but we don't have the same insurance we had before the dems "fixed" the system. It either negatively impacts his health or we go bankrupt and live in a cardboard box.

Expect about 50% of employers over the next 3-5 years to drop healthcare coverage for employees. The individual policies are where the profit is for Insurance Companies and this deform incentivized just that. Oh and when our employers drop healthcare coverage, don't expect more money in your paycheck. IOW, your total compensation has been reduced. Good luck affording health care with the same amount you take home now. This crap just made a lot of us poorer. By the middle of 2011, my family will no longer be middle class. Plus my tax dollars help pay subsidies that go right back to this corrupt system.

We were better off before anyone tried to make it better. Making healthcare accessible without making it affordable is the biggest failure of the ACA (Affordable care act my a$$)

I cannot and will not vote for anyone who supported this garbage. They took the pills right out of my husband's mouth. Voting these worthless employees out of office will not hurt them any where near the way they have hurt us, but it's all we've got.

[Name removed]

38. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

45. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ProudDad]

47. He shouldn't be allowed to characterize our Safety Net

as "Entitlements" -- that's for god damn sure...

Since when is an allegedly Democratic pResident given a free pass for spouting right-wing talking points?

[Name removed]

48. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Truth2Pwer]

49. This is not good...not at all

[Autumn]

50. Yes he is

and that has been made very clear.

[TBF]

51. It has been in the works awhile -

I wrote an OP on it earlier this week: http://journals.democraticunderground.com/TBF/26

The DLC has wanted this for a long time.

[dflprincess]

53. If the word "entitlement" had not been give such a negative image, Obama would be right

Social Security & Medicare are entitlements. We are entitled to them because we contribute to them in the form of the payroll tax all our working lives.

If Obama wants to run his reelection campaign on a Republican platform I wish he'd do us all a favor and announce he's switching parties now so we could run a Democrat in 2012.

[felix_numinous]

54. Legal tax evasion is the best example of an entitlement!!

Having access to our own retirement and health care is the difference between life and death for millions of people--this was money taken out of our paychecks. Are we so stupid that we cannot tell the difference???

[Faryn Balyncd]

55. K&R

[golfguru]

57. FDR must be turning in his grave

[craigmatic]

58. At some point he's going to go after the teachers. Mark my words.

[Starry Messenger]

63. That's been ongoing, actually. n/t

[craigmatic]

69. True but the dems in congress limited what he could do. Now nothing is going to stop him.

[budkin]

61. Who the fuck is this guy??

[EmeraldCityGrl]

64. We are in so much fucking trouble.

The statement in the OP is in complete opposition to what he has said publicly in the
past when he has claimed SS might need some tweaking ( my words ) but nothing major.

The tax bill was negotiated without consent from congress. One of the things the House is
angry about is that they were left out of the process. If we have a president that supposedly
is a constitutional scholar bypassing congress except for their rubber stamp at the last minute
while the clock is timing out, what is he capable of when it comes to SS, their pot of gold.

If he goes after SS, I will no longer qualify to be on this forum because I will become a raving
anarchist. I feel confident in saying that will be the final straw for most people.

[undergroundpanther]

73. Hmm

I'm already an anarchist. black diaper baby.
And what is happening to this country at the hands of these suited sociopaths has got me furious and I have so much hate inside, I await the day I can let the people who CAUSED this mess feel the burn,for themselves.

How many times will the people let the traitors stab them in the back?

[EmeraldCityGrl]

76. I feel your pain, more and more and more.

[BlueIris]

75. I feel confident in saying the final straw for many was healthcare.

Tax cut compromise was the last for most who remained. He's out of straws.

[KoKo]

92. Exactly so. What if he does a secret deal with Repugs and with

New Congress...it will be even easier. No Pelosi to stop it or at least try to throw a wrench in it. And, with Harry Reid...OMG... He's the best Repug we've had in the Senate Leadership. Schumer is a Wall Streeter (who when asked by reporter about Left of the Party being angry...said "when they push we push back!"} and that was over the Public Option not being included last year.

[Odin2005]

65. IT'S A TRAP!!!

[jeanpalmer]

68. He has a blind spot for his wars

And his references to medium-term and long-term mean he will be cutting entitlements not next year or the year after but in the outer years. That's because this tax bill with its two-year horizon is nothing more than a down payment on his own re-election. That's clearly what he's focused on.

[Lorien]

71. "Entitlements": nice Reagan term, Mr. "democrat"

Sorry Mr. Obama, they are SOCIAL PROGRAMS THAT WE"VE ALREADY PAID FOR, unlike your beloved war and tax breaks for the rich. THOSE "entitlements for the wealthy" require a multi-trillion dollar LOAN.

[undergroundpanther]

72. If he cuts my ability to survive..

I'll have to Hate Obama like I hated reagan& despise all the bush family and hate cheney and hate hillary and the DLC third way assholes and every corporate pig banker & sociopath .

If he does this to the poor the old,the disabled he deserves a BIG..FUCK YOU!!

And if DU can't handle that,out of me now,maybe they should wait because this cutting game obama seems to want to do will work it's way up...Then will du allow posters to tell him fuck you too?

Obama so far has NOT acted like a real democrat he has been very disappointing to me and others here. Is DU a cult of personality political flavored fan club or is it about REAL DEMOCRACY?

Only time will tell I guess..

[earth mom]

74. So pissed off I could spit. I've known the truth about Obama since the primaries,

but I didn't think he'd stoop so low and spew the same sort of bullshit that * did about Social Security.

[FlyByNight]

79. Way to parrot R talking points...

...again.

"Entitlements": money and services for the people.

Necessities: endless wars/occupations and empire maintenance, "free trade" agreements, rigged tax structure, bailouts, avoidance of war crimes investigations, etc.

[Creative]

81. Actually, I believe it's the mathematicians and accountants that are making the bee-lines...

You know--people who can count.

[harun]

82. It's part of his surge in the war against the Middle Class.

[GinaMaria]

98. Yep see post 95 for more

[harun]

99. Thanks! They passed Health Insurance Reform not Health Care Reform.

As you note, the system is hurting a lot of people.

[Laelth]

83. Vomit. Medicare and SS are NOT the problem. n/t

-Laelth

[mikekohr]

85. It's Reality he's pointing to and he wants to raise the income limit on SS to stabilize it.

nt

[KoKo]

91. Wait until you see the final bill and what's in it before you are so sure.

[mikekohr]

93. Back at ya -nt-

[and-justice-for-all]

86. The continued evasion of the actual problem...

the DoD and the middle east occupations.

[Skittles]

94. can I say I TOLD YOU SO yet?????

FUCK

[Occam Bandage]

96. There's nothing wrong with calling them "entitlement" programs. That's the correct word. nt

[yurbud]

102. Don't both have their own separate taxes and therefore revenue streams?

so it is dishonest to lump them in with stuff like defense?

Of course one of the reasons they like to lump it in is it makes defense look smaller.