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Armstead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-10-10 11:57 PM
Original message
This is getting so predictable
Edited on Fri Dec-10-10 11:58 PM by Armstead
We all basically agree on what we' like to see.....public insurance, tax break for the middle class,.....Stop kowtowing to the rich, etc.

And our Democratic leaders say they Share those goals.

But then, the "centrist" Democrats --- including President Obama -- always manage to screw it up, and cave in on the most important goals. And give up the fight before the first round.

"Sorry we can' t get it done. You have to be realistic."

And then erupts the circular firing squad, and "the left" is told to play along because there is no choice. It happens on the large canvas of DC and in smaller ones like Democratic Underground.

And inevitably we get a "compromise" which is unproductive or even counterproductive.


It's really tiresome.



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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 12:01 AM
Response to Original message
1. DU is what's predictable.....
Where the answer to everything is "pounding on the table, and breaking some heads"
to get to 60 votes.


Watch Sen. Sanders still not have close to 60 votes in the Senate after his time spent
on the floor doing Tweet record breaking C-Span TeeVee!


:eyes:
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Armstead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 12:03 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. Nor is the answer giving up at the starting gate
There is a big difference between pounding on the table and hiding under it.

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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 12:17 AM
Response to Reply #2
5. Starting gate has been moved up using goalpost.
Obama wanted this done pre election, it wasn't.

The house finally passed a measure in the lame Duck session
knowing the votes weren't there in the senate.

The senate, as predicted, failed to pass two measures on same.

Obama came in with a compromise that is quite decent, considering
that it didn't even look like he liked it much.

So it only appears as the "starting gate" to those who dont want to
understand politics very well at this time, conveniently.
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Armstead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 12:22 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. Despite your condescending tone, I half agree with you
The Democrats screwed the pooch by noy forcing the issue by holding similar votes before the election....

It would have gotten the ball rolling and forced the GOP to show their true colors earlier.

Obama is not solely to blame for this latest fiasco. But the fact that this pattern keeps getting repeated is. a problem.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 12:30 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. Its not the same pattern......
Edited on Sat Dec-11-10 12:43 AM by FrenchieCat
its simply the politics of our sides not having as many votes in one of the houses as they need to pass measures that are real progressive.

It's politics where the media decides what's gonna happen, what will be reported and how, and what polls will be touted to sway the masses.

It's politics where during the HCR, the President was criticized for not taking enough of a lead,
and when he takes the lead when nothing is getting done by congress on both the tax and the UI issue, he's criticized for doing it alone...like Dems were themselves gonna come up with something better than what Obama negotiated....Sure (rolling my eyes). I'm sure if he would have done something else, while he was trying, he would have been criticized for whatever.... fill in the blank.

It's politics when folks who actually do know better pretend not to in order to criticize pretty much the only thing that stand between us and the whole fucking country becoming a facist ass piece of shit as it did under Bush...

and I guess, it's the politics of activist to just sit on the side line making snarky coments with their foot up Obama's ass about every fucking thing! (did you hear he left the Presser with WJC early, going against the command of those who like to think they are there to tell him what to do about everything?)

So yeah...it's predictable.

Starting in January, it will become even harder,
and I guess that means that feet will be that much deeper
up Obama's ass.

Great! Can't wait to watch us defeat ourselves,
and blame one man. :eyes:



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PurityOfEssence Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 01:13 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. Mere mortals have to stand to account for their actions
Deities, apparently, get to skate.

Forcing one's opponents to deploy and making them work to get compromise is a good deterrent. Now that he's repeatedly pre-compromised on so many subjects, he just makes intolerant jackals like our current reactionary politicians laugh and press even harder.

After the ultramoderate bungling and timidity, one of the few real hopes for not getting our group ass kicked in the next few years is the habitual hubris of the right that causes them to overreach.

Consider it simple reciprocation: some will risk all of our futures just to preserve the shopworn image of transcendent perfection of one man, and some of us will point out this silliness.
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progressoid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 01:31 AM
Response to Reply #7
9. Not all of us are blaming just one man.
Actually, a lot of us did blame Reid et. al. for dragging their feet before the election. However, if the President actually wanted this to happen before the election, as the leader of the party, he could have made it happen. It only took him a couple days to do it.


It often seems that the President is always blamed. That's probably because we tend to hold the leaders of the party account abe for their actions. And the head honcho of our party is...well...the President.
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The Magistrate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 12:08 AM
Response to Original message
3. And, Sir, Against a Back-Drop Of People Being Systematically Stripped Of Livelihoods And Prospects
It is positively infuriating....
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saracat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 12:08 AM
Response to Original message
4.  I am too disgusted to care any more. Bernie is a hero. The rest, not so much.
Edited on Sat Dec-11-10 12:10 AM by saracat
I am tired of the DC Dems hurting us all locally and hurting the interests of the average American. That is NOT what they were elected to do. They are supposed to be better than this. Obama is definitely supposed to be better than this. The best of the Senate, Bernie , isn't even a Dem, and that says a lot. I applaud the Congress and hope they stick to their guns. Power to the people. We are the ones that count!
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 01:38 AM
Response to Reply #4
10. LOL!
Politics ain't easy....
even Sen. Sanders knows that.

Guess the President could kick some ass....
but not really. Anything he does is scrutinized by not only
the sideline commentators who do nothing but analyze his every move,
but also by the mediawhores, and the armchair netroot.

Here's a clue:





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TheKentuckian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 01:48 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. Why do you think giving the opposition what they want and taking anything as a boon
is brilliant, hard, or the right thing to do?
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Faryn Balyncd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 01:54 AM
Response to Original message
12. They are playing us for fools.



k and r
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 01:57 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. I think some don't need to be played with......
cause there already there....
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saracat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 03:57 AM
Response to Reply #13
14. It's "they're" and you are correct but the fools aren't who you think they are.
Edited on Sat Dec-11-10 04:19 AM by saracat
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jefferson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 06:22 AM
Response to Original message
15. Stop with the "caving" nonsense.
Fact is, the Dems (President Obama included) all agree but that's not good enough to ram legislation past the Repuglican roadblocks. You know this, don't you? The Dems have (only) 58 Senators at present. With the new 112th Congress, they will have (only) 53. It takes 60 to end a filibuster. Got it?
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Armstead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 07:26 PM
Response to Reply #15
24. I just have one question...
Why is it that when the Repugs are in the majority they get what they want. And when Dems are in the minority, the GOP keeps the Dems from getting what they want?

It often seems like the one thing politically the Dems are better at is making excuses.
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hulka38 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 10:49 PM
Response to Reply #24
29. When Republicans are in the minority they still get what they want.
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Pistarkle Donating Member (123 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 06:46 AM
Response to Original message
16. Dont Cry For Me Argentina!
I hate the thought of having to compromise on the tax cuts, but no compromise is only in your corner when YOU have the upper hand. Right now the Republicans HAVE the upper hand more than enough no votes in the Senate to keep tax cuts for the wealthy in ANY compromise. If Democratic candidates campaigned on tax cuts for the wealthy during the 2010 Campaign as the President suggested, perhaps 90% rather than 40% of eligible voters would have voted in the midterms and the Democrats would have the upper hand regarding the tax cut controversy, but thats past history.

Because of the midterm results, Republicans will be in charge of the House and the 60 vote filibuster-proof Senate on the side of Democrats will be out the door come January 1st. At least now a compromise will benefit the middle class, the poor, and the unemployed and small businesses. The President HAD TO FIGHT for the extension of unemployment benefits, tax cuts for the middle class, payroll tax cuts, and incentives for small businesses to create jobs. The Republicans ONLY wanted tax cuts for the wealthy. Its not the best of both worlds, but its better than nothing at all. After January 1st when the Republicans are in charge of the House, you can be guaranteed that those benefits will be gone with the wind.

WE criticized the President and Democrats when we didnt get the public option but WE didnt fight for it. We let the Tea Party and health insurance industry do ALL of the squawking and we didnt start raising Cain until after the fact. WE must deliver the upper hand. WE must speak out in ONE voice. WE must shame the Republicans into ending those tax cuts THROUGHOUT the next two years. WE must hold local rallies. WE must fight for our rights in local AND national newspapers, internet, radio and media outlets. WE must email, fax and call Republican Congressional offices EVERY DAY. We must let Tea Party-backed Republicans know that if they continue to fight for the wealthy and ignore the middle class, the poor and the unemployed, WE WILL vote them out in 2012 and WE must mean it!

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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 10:38 AM
Response to Reply #16
19.  Pistarkle...welcome to DU...but you are wrong about what Dems did on HC Bill


We Democrats (activists) fought hard for it. Peititions calling, faxing our Dem Reps for months. We had progressive lobbyists on the Hill trying to get a Public Option in...trying to revise what the Repugs kept putting in. I don't know if you weren't aware of what we did because you are a New DU'er...but if you'd been here then you would have seen what the Dem Net Roots tried to do and it was AWESOME. It was not DU doing this but Progressive Dem Groups and other blogs led the fight for action.

Anyway, Welcome to DU.
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Pistarkle Donating Member (123 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 12:14 PM
Response to Reply #16
23. Thanks for the update AND the fight...
I emailed and called GOP legislators and blogged my fingers to the bone on TV Alley and Organizing for America on the issue, but was so discouraged when all I saw on television were Health Care Forums gone wrong on the Tea Party side without an equal balance on the Democratic side. If you ever need another poster to fight for one of your causes, I'm in!
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kentuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 10:32 AM
Response to Original message
17. Read this post from August 24th...
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Armstead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 07:30 PM
Response to Reply #17
25. Looks like your prediction will come true...But at least some have shown spine
It' just a shame that those who standing up for principles are going to get railroaded yet again.

Part of that predictable pattern.

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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 10:36 AM
Response to Original message
18. But centrist Dems - including the prez - don't really screw it up...
Edited on Sat Dec-11-10 10:41 AM by polichick
They do what they mean to do - it's all theater.
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ncteechur Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 11:40 AM
Response to Original message
20. can you count to 60? Cause that is what you need. 60 6. 0. sixty
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jenmito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 11:46 AM
Response to Original message
21. What's getting so predictable is threads like this getting so many recs, even though they
Edited on Sat Dec-11-10 11:53 AM by jenmito
put the blame in the wrong place. Put the blame where it belongs-on the Conservadems in the Senate who refuse to give Obama what he wants. Obama wanted tax cuts for the middle class only but the Senate only got 53 votes for it (and since you need 60 for everything nowadays, it's not good enough). Obama couldn't do anything about it BUT get this deal-and he got a better deal than he'll EVER get in Jan.

Not to mention wanting Gitmo closed, but the Dem.-controlled Senate failed to get him the funding needed to close it and to allow prisoners to come to prisons HERE.
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Armstead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 07:32 PM
Response to Reply #21
26. There's enough blame to go around.....as I said this is a perennial pattern
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OhioBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 11:40 PM
Response to Reply #21
32. +1 n/t
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Dinger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 11:53 AM
Response to Original message
22. I Was Thinking The Same Thing (nt)
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Rosa Luxemburg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 07:33 PM
Response to Original message
27. we haven't got 60 votes is an excuse
surely fighting to the bitter end pushing and pushinng until the GOP submit is more what Dems should be made of? It would seem that they shy away.
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tblue37 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 08:26 PM
Response to Original message
28. It is another form of hostage-taking. The Dems say, "If you don't go along
with whatever we say, you will get a Republican, which is so much worse." Well, yes, a Republican is so much worse, but that is like saying, "Give me all your money or I will shoot you." Yes, being shot is worse than losing all your money, but that is still forcing someone to tolerate a terrible outcome to avoid a worse one.
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budkin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 10:56 PM
Response to Original message
30. I think it's because Dems are scared of being called "liberal."
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slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 11:18 PM
Response to Original message
31. knr nt
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