Many of us passionate Obama supporters share the frustrations of his critics on the left but. . .

[wndycty]

. . .we find it hard to voice the frustrations or to stand with critics on the left who call him a traitor, sell-out, corporatist, etc. Additionally, many of us know and privately acknowledge his shortcomings but can't stand with or work with folks who won't acknowledge his accomplishments or diminish those accomplishments as not far reaching enough or watered down.

While the Obama administration can be held accountable for raising expectations on the campaign trail his critics on the left need to acknowledge the challenges his has to face in meeting those expectations. Be it the mainstream media that has been negligent in its duties and they way they cover stories, Republicans who vow to destroy him or independent minded Democrats who don't fall in line like we would like them to, Obama's critics on the left who don't acknowledge these challenges are either ignorant to the way things work or willfully ignoring the challenges the president faces in order to bash him.

Between now and 2012 the Republicans are unified in taking down the President and Democrats, where as the President has to fight both the Republicans and those on the left who won't do anything but attack him.

[young but wise]

1. Beautifully said.

[bettyellen]

2. honestly the conspiricy theories here have ruined the place. it;s all becoming a dungeon.

[ProudDad]

30. There's no conspiracy...

Just a congruence of interests...

[JAbuchan08]

130. I've been saying the same thing (less articulately) for years eom.

[stray cat]

3. Many of us are disappointed but prefer Obama to giving up and electing the GOP

[woo me with science]

114. I guess it depends on your definition of "giving up."

For others, "giving up" means capitulating to and ceasing to hold accountable representatives who are betraying much of what we stand for, just because they have a "D" after their name.

It's to be expected that we have hardcore disagreements about Obama and his policies here. It's a natural reflection of the tension between wanting very much to support a Democratic administration and being appalled by what the administration is actually doing.

True to form, though, DU can't tolerate strong arguments about Obama and the policies for very long. We always end up carping about each other.

[derby378]

4. "Fall in line?"

Sorry, that's the Republicans' job.

Our job is to constantly tell the White House that it still isn't good enough, that Americans deserve better, that their elected officials can do better. Intelligent dissent is the highest form of patriotism.

[wndycty]

6. Well considering I was talking about Ben Nelson, Joe Lieberman, Blanche Lincoln, Mark Pryor. . .

. . .you are right.

[derby378]

8. Duly noted

And Lieberman isn't a Democrat anymore, anyway.

I have Democratic friends who have supported some of the candidates named above. I know of some of their reasons for doing so, but the end result still does not bode well for our efforts.

[Name removed]

16. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Aramchek]

37. I guess you would rather fall on your face. Enjoy!

[MadMaddie]

105. "Intelligent dissent is the highest form of patriotism"

Yes, that is the way it should be. What we have seen is nothing but blatent destructive attacks against President Obama not constructive Intelligent dissent.

[wndycty]

106. Yup we are not getting intelligent dissent, we are getting over the top dramatic knee jerk reactions

:kick:

[derby378]

135. If Obama is able to serve the needs of America, he's got my support

I like Barack Hussein Obama as a person, and I want to support him as President. But if some Democrat comes around with a better playbook for 2012 and beyond, that candidate at least deserves a little consideration. If Obama comes up with a better playbook than what he's been using lately, then he'll be in much better shape for the 2012 elections.

[Schema Thing]

5. Exactly. The word "progressive" comes from "progress", not...

..."fully formed policy that in one fell swoop destroys and eliminates all right and center-right influence in America".

[Exilednight]

100. The problem is that no progress is being made .............

You can argue it six ways 'til Sunday, but he has to make progress against any of the core issues.

Progress in Iraq is not pulling out 50,000 soldiers and replacing them with 50,000 private contractors.

Progress in HCR has to being with addressing the core issue which is sky rocketing prices. It's not mandating that everyone buys insurance from for profit corporations.

[RandomThoughts]

7. Sometimes it seems that way.

Might be perception. I figure most people do more good then bad. As far as being attacked, I got kicked around for years and years before getting any help, then started noticing all the help that was around during those tougher times that I didn't see at that time.

I figure he is doing fine, and if people are voting for tax cut for the rich, it shows how much things need to be corrected anyways. If it is not correction, it is evidence for future correction. So really hard to lose, if you are in the correct thoughts.

It could be argued that any tax cut for an American would be for a rich person, but that does not change the imbalance within the taxation versus distribution inside the USA at this time. So within the subset of American wages there still is an imbalance without a more progressive distribution to correct flaws in the system.

[BeFree]

9. Actually

It is just anti-establishment. Obama just happens to head up the establishment.
So........ Obama makes a damn fine target for the anti-establishment frustrations.

Yall need to quit yer whining about Obama. He's a big boy, he can take it.
Really, it is getting old.

[wndycty]

10. I'm not worried about Obama's feelings, I'm worried about the movement. . .

. . .and a lot the shit said about Obama is counterproductive to the movement.

At some point you need to understand that a lot of the criticism directed at Obama isn't going to move him more to the left, but is going to help the folks on the right, especially if it depresses folks who support Obama/Democrats/progressives.

[pscot]

17. I've been bitching at the President

since he appointed Summers and Geithner, but I'm starting to feel really uncomfortable with the hate talk that's going around right now, all of which seems to be coming from us white guys. The fact is, we can't elect a Democratic president without the strong support of black voters. And right now, the black community have got to be hearing this talk, some of which is mean as hell, and thinking what the fuck. I will make a prediction: if Mr. Obama is primaried successfully, the nomination will be worthless, because black voters will turn their backs on the Democrats.

[wndycty]

18. Exactly, I'm African American who would support whomever is nominated however. . .

. . .the passion I have for the party would be gone.

[wndycty]

20. You made another important statement:

"but I'm starting to feel really uncomfortable with the hate talk that's going around right now"

You hit the nail on the head there is difference between constructive criticism, and hate talk, and a lot of the stuff coming out from the left is hate talk.

[ProudDad]

34. And you have examples of this "hate talk" right? (n/t)

[pscot]

79. Open your eyes

People are posting some really scurrilous comments about the President: as rough as anything that was said about Bush. I think black folks take it personally. They see a lot of it as racially motivated. I think they're right. The point I'm trying to make here is that we are playing with live ammunkition. People will get hurt and there will be collateral damage. I'm not the only one who has noticed. We are being trolled heavily now by outside agitators who are trying to pour gas on the flames. I wish we could just calm down a bit and at least drop the name calling and character assassination.

[wndycty]

88. Spot on with the point about character assassination. . .

. . .that is driving a lot of the criticism.

[ampad]

97. It really is simple

Scroll through a couple of pages and read the locked threads. One of the most recent locked threads was about the man's dead mother. A couple of days ago there was an entire sub thread deleted because the poster stated "let him starve" The OP was about the president being too thin. Over in GD there is a post up with Cenk calling the president stupid. Last I checked it had at least two recs. There was a post here a week ago in regards to the president crying while signing the HCR bill. Oh that thread has some real good ones.

For those that believe that the AA community is not aware of the hate coming from some on the left they are fooling themselves and yes many of us do take it personally. Much as many take their disappointment of this president personally. I will hand it to DU because it does seem that the admin is trying to clear the air here. Sometimes I feel sorry for the mods.

[lillypaddle]

120. Actually, it seems to me

that the new rules have made the hate directed at this President even worse.

[ProudDad]

137. I don't read that kind of crap

or, it's usually gone before I get there...

I stick with policies and actions and the basic motivations that drive those policies and actions...

I believe that almost all human beings have the seeds of redemption within them and try to refrain from attacking the individual as an individual human being...

[ProudDad]

136. I guess I don't visit "those threads"

I have seen very little (actually can't think of one example) of any name calling of Obama just for the sake of name calling.

Or maybe those trolls and racists are on my ignore list :)

I've indicated that in my opinion he's a corporatist and a creature of the upper classes and that he was captured by the generals and bought into the permanent war paradigm hook line and sinker...

But personally I "like" him, he's refreshingly articulate and has a wonderful sense of humor and quick wit...

I'm just saddened that his gifts are not applied to the right causes...

[bettyellen]

78. I have seen the hate talk too, and the utterly unrealistic expectations and I'm over it too.

you see more and more RW talking points echoed here, and a lot of good people have disappeared from this site because of it. some really great progressive ativists who still do what they do but stay away from here now. There;s a lot of defeatism, and a lot of childish and angry talk coupled with much less evidence of any progressive activisim. maybe it's Obamas fault that all these youngsters thought a turn around would be quick and effortless. but most more mature dems I know, who have been politically active for years maybe disappointed but they are not stupid enough to think there's no difference between the two parties. and that kind of crazy talk is all over here, all the time now,

[ampad]

95. Yes the AA community is taking notice

All one needs to do is lurk on an AA forum and or blog.

[johnlucas]

103. I'm Black & the Democrats (including Obama) are dead to me

I'm Black & the Democrats (including Obama) are dead to me.

Obama was my last hope for believing in this system & he's a fraud.
From my very first time voting for a President in 1996 (Clinton by the way), I have always had suspicion of the actuality of the voting process.
Seemed like a game to me, like magic tricks...smoke & mirrors.

In 2000, I hated Gore. Didn't trust that phony as far as I could throw him.
Was headed for Nader but then I didn't want to take a chance on Bush getting in there so I reluctantly voted for Gore.
In 2004, Kerry was nothing to me. He wasn't going to change anything once he was in office.
But even moreso than last time I wanted to keep that idiot Bush out of office so I reluctantly voted for Kerry.

I wasn't going to vote at all in 2008 because of the wimpy weak will of those Democrats who got in there in 2006.
Nothing ever changes. That so-called conservative ideology housed within the shell called Republican should be a fringe belief at best but actually has sway in this supposed country.
The Democrats don't have the guts to eradicate that other party & shred that belief system. They just go right along with everything.
How can a nation of poor & working class people EVER stand in line with the mentality the Republicans spew out?
It's because the Democrats are an ineffective impotent party, that's why. A party that won't fight for the cause of the people who really make this country run.

I put my last tiny bit of hope into Obama hoping he could single-handedly reform the Democratic Party.
His "mic skills" could energize the public which in turn can make them put pressure on any Democratic Congress-person who won't follow suit.
If the old Democrats didn't change, 2010 would have washed in a NEW WAVE of Democrats who will fight formidably for the cause of the poor & working class people in this land.
All Obama had to do was say the right things, say 'em with passion, & have his agenda aim for those things. An advocate for The People.
The nation would have had his back with the power of his bully pulpit.

It would be so commonsense that only fools would fight against it. They too would suffer from challenging Obama when 2010 rolled around & THEY would be washed out for the new blood.
When the plans actually prove themselves to work, then it only makes Obama speeches that much stronger & he could push for anything he wanted.
If he put as much into Main St. as Wall St., then backed it up with policies punishing those who have gamed this country into ruin, nobody could stop him.
After awhile his words wouldn't be just words, they would be truth. Words backed up with action. A REAL Change.

But that didn't happen.
And now I know 100% what I did 99% before...
...Politics is a Joke.

So to hell with the Democrats & to hell with Obama.

Some Black folks are still awed by the Obama family but not me anymore (I suspect there are more Blacks like me).
This is one Black who's waiting on the only thing that will truly bring change...
...The Revolution.
John Lucas

[MadMaddie]

110. JohnLucas I am Black too...

However; I did not set unrealistic expectations on President Obama. I am not awed by him and I am not glammed by him. I know that he walked into a screwed up situation.

You say
<snip>
I put my last tiny bit of hope into Obama hoping he could single-handedly reform the Democratic Party.
<snip>

If reforming the Democratic Party were his only task in his Presidency then I might give you some support on this idea. However, with the worst recession since the Great Depression, 2 Wars, record unemployment - 750,000 jobs lost per month before he took office, let's see what else......And you expected him to fix the Democratic Party. Actually that wasn't his job that was Tim Kaine's job. You do know who he is right?
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2009/01/obama-kaine-1.html

This is what I do know....The Southern Strategy which was created by the Republicans and Nixon in the 60's was to divide the country between Blacks and Whites. In the 50's and 60's it was outright violence and murder. Today it's Faux, Beck, Palin and most of the MSM attacking President Obama at every turn.

Your expectations appear to be that once he walked into office, politics as this country has known for the last 30 years was supposed to miraculously change into a Utopian form of Democracy.

You ask
<snip>
How can a nation of poor & working class people EVER stand in line with the mentality the Republicans spew out?
<snip>

I will tell you how, just like your grandparents, parents along with mine stood against the German Shepperd's and hoses in Selma. Just like MLK stood tall in the face of the racists the spit on his children and wife. You sit there and you opine that you weren't going to vote, the people that I mentioned above lost their lives so you could vote. You lament that the world is not perfect, well you don't have to walk into the back of buildings anymore. You don't have to drink out of black water fountains anymore.

You say the nation would have his back...really? Did you forget about the Blue Dogs that were in the House and Senate? His efforts were damaged by these so called Dems and most of them got kicked out of office in this last election.

What exactly have you done to change the political landscape in your community, city and state. Have you run for a position in your city council? Have you identified someone who you think could run and be successful?

If you are angry that things are changing as fast as you want perhaps you should direct your anger toward the Republicans. They are r they are responsible for the demise of this country. President Obama wasn't there when this started......he is there and he is attempting to do the right thing. It's not going to be fixed in 2 years.

I would say to you and others, this is no time to quit. The fight is just getting under way. I believe you and others have fallen victim to the economy and the dismal outlook that the country appears to be in.


Everyone here is stronger than that!

[johnlucas]

115. I'm not cutting him any more excuses

He knew what he was getting into when he vied for that office.

He was a Black man, more correctly a Mixed man Black & White, with the name Barack Hussein Obama II.
He had a Black wife...with dark skin to boot.
He went to a church headed by the outspoken bombastic fiery Rev. Wright.
A Reverend who spoke truth to power. A Reverend who married him to his wife. A Reverend who baptized his damn kids.
This Reverend's words even found their way into HIS words: The Audacity of Hope.

He's from Hawaii & has encountered diverse cultures unencumbered by the poisonous mindset of White supremacy.
His mother struck a dagger in that sickening phenomenon when she married his father in a time of legal ethnic segregation.
Not only a Black man but a Kenyan from Africa itself! The Blackest of Black men in the 1950s & 60s.
He witnessed the White world, the Black world, the Asian world, and all worlds inbetween.

When he left Hawaii & he came to Chicago of all places, one of the Blackest cities in America, & went to work on those streets as a community organizer.
Driving a hoopty! Something equivalent to a brown Ford Pinto.
But of course he ran into a brick wall working on those streets. The problems could not be adequately solved from his position so he had to ascend.

He played the Harvard game & became a law professor/civil rights attorney.
This was what he needed to get the gravitas to enter the political stage where he could affect some of these ignorant laws that plagued those streets & this nation.
Laws that allowed his mother to die from cancer.

He became an Illinois State Senator & got his first taste of the controls behind the curtain.
There he learned to play the political game in order to ensure his ascension.
He then became a U.S. Senator for Illinois & it was only one more step before he could get behind the ultimate controls...
...The Presidency.

All this ascension was to perform on a national level what he did on a local level in the 1980s.
He would be organizing those proverbial streets all over the nation. All the hoods of this country.

So when he cut short his 6-year Senate term to make that run for 2008, he knew it was his only chance to make that ultimate ascension.
Bush was so bad that even some of the Republicans couldn't stand him. Katrina helped some of that out.

Obama KNEW when he ran for President that this was STILL a racist country that wouldn't tolerate him at the apex of power.
He KNEW that there was risk for assassination both by character & physical.
He KNEW that if he didn't try in 2008 when Bush's stupidity woke enough of the public up, he would never get to the top.
And once there he KNEW that he couldn't go in half-hearted & half-measured if he still was beholden to those Chicago streets he met over 20 years ago.

He KNEW his past & the prevailing view of The African, the Black people in this country would make it difficult for him to ascend to that ultimate office.
He had to do what ALL of us Blacks have to do in this country, he had to put on that public face while holding the true self inside his soul.
This place ain't ready for Rev. Wrights telling it like it is. Too scared for that. Can't handle the damn truth.
Of course he had to separate publicly. Of course he had to downplay & seem non-threatening. Can't be Tupac, you gotta be Will Smith if you wanna get in the door.
They were scared of Michelle's high-arched eyebrows for God's sake!! God forbid she let her hair grow "nap-tural".
The Obamas give dap & all of a sudden it's a terrorist fist bump.
The New Yorker cover made out Michelle to be some Black Panther revolutionary with fatigues on with Obama in "Muslim" garb.

He took a big chance & surrendered a lot of himself just to get inside that office.
But then...HE GOT IT!!!!
A MIRACLE!!! It had Jesse crying for God's sake!
HE MADE IT!! And now it was time to unleash the original mission.

What did he do? He hired a bunch of old Clintonites into his Cabinet. OK fine. They serve at the pleasure of the President.
Just so long as the top guy barks the orders those suckers will have to follow.
But no, he started compromising before anything got done.
Bipartisanship???? Are you shitting me? All these decades of this bullshit & you're talking about bipartisanship???

The people voted you in to find a new way. They took a big gamble on you & expected you not to follow old traditions & old routines.
That was fine while you were in the ascension but now you have ascended & it is time to fulfill your agenda, the agenda of the poor & working class people you championed in Chicago.

We didn't elect you to be an incremental step. You WERE supposed to be the game-changer. You were supposed to oversee a national political shift that would reorient the talking points of the nation for decades to come. That shift would have washed away the old Republican party & that ignorant conservative bullshit they have been peddling for the past who knows years.

MadMaddie, it hurts me especially when I see my people. And they wear Obama hats & Obama shirts proudly with their heads held high. I almost didn't vote for Obama in 2008 because of FISA but when I saw the hope in my people's eyes when they talked about the Obama family entering that White House, I couldn't go against him. I knew him attaining that office would be so much psychological comfort for us. Not some Alan Keyes sucker but the RIGHT kind of Black family in that White House. One aligned with the interests of the everyday man & woman. And that image would reverberate out to the entire world & the world's image of The African would change. You would hear no more talk from supposed Nobel Prize winners like James Watson calling us inherently inferior.

He would change the image of the African within this land most of all & with him reforming the weak & impotent Democratic party into a real force for social & economic justice, his time in office would be legendary & would change the entire landscape of this nation. They would say an Obama Democrat 40 years into the future & reflect on how his 8 years in office turned back some of the most devastating destruction to our nation leading to the road of prosperity. His time in office would change international policy & kill off these colonial imperial wars exploiting others people's labors. His mom was dedicated to eradicating the poverty in the land of Java where his sister came from.

MadMaddie, he was elected to be a wholesale REFORMER.
He KNEW this when he ran for office. He KNEW this when he ascended through the ranks all those years. He KNEW that the first Black President had very much riding on his shoulders because if he screwed up, it would be the end for our political say in this country. The Voting Rights Act is still just an act. It has to be renewed. What if they don't renew it? If he fails, they will never elect another Black, maybe not an Hispanic or Asian & perhaps not a woman to office. We don't make up enough numbers nationally to put anybody in office by ourselves. It's up to the others to work with us.

And when I think of this knowing how much hope my people have still have wearing his hats & shirts, I get doubly angry!
He has betrayed them!! He has taken centuries of long-wished hopes & dreams & toyed with them as a bauble while he aids in furthering the destruction of his predecessors all the way back to slaveholder Washington!!

He killed it, MadMaddie. My last hope for this political system went with him.
I didn't expect him to have it finished in 2 to 4 years but I expected him to be headed in the right direction. That's not happening.
Now, I can only wait for that Revolution which will force justice out of their greedy callous selfish hands. That's the Change I need.
John Lucas

[johnlucas]

116. One more thing: My history with The Vote

It was precisely BECAUSE of those lost lives in Selma & everywhere else that I voted all of these years.
I always thought about those sacrifices & pushed myself to the voting booth even when I was in near total disbelief of the effectiveness of this ritual.
I couldn't disrespect their struggle for equality. I couldn't disrespect what they gave up just so we could be treated like everyone else in this land.

I have ALWAYS kept that in mind & it ultimately pushed me to vote for Obama when I saw that hope in my people's eyes.
All that struggle & sacrifice would finally pay off. 45 years ago they were being spat at & sprayed with fire hoses with vicious German shephards on the leash. Today they get to see a Black man become President. Not an Alan Keyes or J.C. Watts type. But a TRUE Brother connected with The Struggle. One who connected with those Chicago streets where opportunities were bare & hope was lost as the gangs & drugs took over. Like so many streets in America.

I was proud of Obama & patient. I knew it wasn't gonna be easy but I had hope that he would begin the massive reforms necessary to change how this system operates. Through the power of his voice he would have the people's support. And the people would target those so-called Democrats who opposed the sound measures he would propose. If they defied Obama when his plans made sense, then they would suffer in the polls & challengers would be ready to take their places.

What have I done to change the political landscape in my community? By staying true to myself & my convictions, speaking the truth to others around me.
It doesn't take place in an office. Laws are just silly ink on paper. Fruitless useless words if not backed up by the gun.
WE have the power. We have ALWAYS had the power. But we are too divided amongst ourselves to be useful. Thanks in part to that Southern Strategy that goes way beyond 1964.
I'd say it should more properly be called the American Strategy.

I am already angry at the Republicans. That's old news. I have been angry with them all of my 34 years of living. I grew up with the bullshit of Reagan & Bush. I was there when Newt put that Contract out on America. And I have just come out of 8 years of Bush: The Sequel.
I KNOW they suck.

But I'm more angry at the Democrats for not putting a stop to these ignorant F'ers. They have been weaklings all of my life. The 1980s, the 1990s, the 2000s. Reagan & Bush couldn't have gotten away with as much as they did if that Democratic Congress laid the smack down like they should have.
They got another chance in 2006 & they were even weaker than they were before!

No insult to my ancestors but voting is a waste of time. Politics is a waste of time.
We got what we got because of numbers. The sheer force of a people walking & standing united scared the government into concession.
If they attacked us when we were following Martin, then that would have shown us unequivocally who our enemy was. It only woulda energized us.
We would have followed Malcolm & then we'da had some serious Panther Parties up in this mother.

They knew that Blacks had their fill of the centuries of abuse & when you have a common enemy it's easy to unite folks.
The Blacks would have leagued up with other abused groups in this country & America would have had a Revolution on its hands that made that so-called 1700s Revolution look like Candy Land.
Nat Turner times 10,000.

That same numbers thing is why the government conceded a social safety net in the 1930s. The same reason why child labor laws & food safety protections were put in place.
When the people KNOW unequivocally that their rulers don't give a crap about them, they are willing to throw caution to the wind & go for broke. Ready to ride or die.

And the rulers & their sycophants know they are outnumbered. They know they can't destroy them all. That is the purpose of all this PR crap they call politics & why they put on this show. This Democrats vs. Republicans game. It is only to maintain the suspension of disbelief in order to stave off the natural conclusion of rampant corruption of a populace...a violent overthrowing revolution.

They killed the Russian Caesar & his whole family. They chopped up Louis & Marie. When The People have had enough, there will be consequences.
Why do you think technology has grown so much in the past 200 years? It's another measure to dissuade The People's violent overthrows. High tech guns & bombs make it hard to storm the castle. But even that won't stop millions when they got nothing to lose.

I tried the system's way & it doesn't work.
Now it's time to try to REAL way. But I can't do it alone. Not until all people realize that they've been had will the Revolution start.
John Lucas

P.S.: As I say often on here, the majority are neither the Democrats nor the Republicans. It is the people who do NOT vote. And there's a reason for that.

[wndycty]

131. I would think that we Black folk, just like anybody else don't agree on everything. . .

. . .you will most like see the majority of Black folks are bothered by the way Obama is treated, and you will see some African Americans who happened to be hardcore progressives being very hard on him as well.

One's opinion of Obama in any direction does not impact someone's "Black" credentials.

[johnlucas]

149. I never said that how one views Obama is a qualifier of Blackness

Wndycty, I don't judge someone's Black authenticity by their view on Obama.
I don't see you as less authentically Black because you still support him.

My point in making that post was to show the person I replied to that all Black folks ain't lockstep with Obama's performance.
They're worried about how the anger towards Obama (justified in my opinion) may alienate the Black vote, a significant sector of the Democratic base.

I wanted to show them that there are Blacks just as angry if not moreso because Obama's bungling threatens the future of our political say in this country.
If he drops the ball, we will be permanent outsiders on the political process. Our concerns will be not heeded because "Geez guys, you just had a Black President. Why are you complaining so much?"

As a populational minority, we are being outpaced by the composite classification of Hispanic.
The various mixes of European/Native American/African/Asian peoples who once belonged to the banner of España Nueva (New Spain).
That's the future & that's where the attention is going.
We're gonna get less representational respect than we already do now. We'll be begging for the lip service we get now, it'll be so bad.

See folks like Alan Keyes & J.C. Watts may be Black ethnically but they're not Black politically.
I don't trust Black Republicans. Black Republicans are out for self. They don't care about The Struggle & helping the larger Black community succeed.
Black Republicans play for the dollars. Just as bad as the Log Cabin Republicans for the gays.
That cross-eyed Ron Christie fool or that Michelle Bernard lady from the so-called "Independent" Women's Forum.

We have to have a Black who is connected to those 'hoods across America. And this Black must make the Whites, Hispanics, Asians, & all others know that solving these problems solves the larger American problems of joblessness, class inequity, health care, human rights, you name it.

The Democratic Party absorbed the Progressive Movement which is about Social Justice & Economic Justice. Intelligent strategies to make the nation better for ALL citizens not just a few.
That's what Civilization is supposed to be about.

Obama's not only wrecking the political stroke of the Black Struggle but he's also wrecking the political future of the Progressive Movement which houses that Struggle among many others.
And that's what makes Whites, Hispanics, Native Americans, Asians, Middle Easterners, and Blacks angry at him.
I wanted to show that they are not alone in their disappointment & disgust & that contrary to what it may seem all Blacks are not blindly supporting Obama.
Some of us are let down because he had the ability to be that game-changer & he's throwing it all away.

He KNEW what he was elected for & it's time for him to do it. You are supposed to be a REFORMER, Obama. Start acting like one.
John Lucas

[ProudDad]

138. If elections could change anything, they'd make them illegal...

After wasting over 30 years of my life trying to believe that change was possible at the ballot box and being constantly disappointed, I gave up after '94 ... when Clinton completely caved...

Since then my only electoral involvement (and it's been considerable -- including active involvement with friends who were working for Obama's election in '08 with my body, mind and art) has been as an organizing and networking tool...

I have not expected ANYTHING from the bogus electoral process since Clinton's ultimate cave-in to the pro-corporate, pro-war forces...

ReLOCALize, rebuild LOCAL communities for resilience and survival if you can but don't expect anything good to come from the corporate-funded "governments"...

[johnlucas]

150. ProudDad, I am proud of YOU

Your posts in this thread are full of truth.
It's gonna be up to us to support us in the end, you're right.

See the problem is that there is no penalty for bad decisions from the lawmakers & law executives.
They have no cause to be concerned from selfish dismissive attitudes towards the public agenda.
The only thing they must do is perform this political theater to lull the populace into a fantasy-filled stupor.
The deals aren't shown on C-Span, I'll tell you that much.

The honest truth is the "rulers" see the "commoners" as merely tools.
Either fodder for the aggressive wars of conquest, components to operate the business machines (offices, warehouses, retailers, etc.), meat for the prisons to become absolute state-owned slaves.

We're just a means to an end to these warped folks. And we only are allowed to exist because technology is not quite able to make fully-adept robots yet.
Once that's done, they'll just exterminate us because we're taking up too much space from them. This is THEIR world after all.

Murder is outlawed not because they care about our safety but because that's one less tool for them to use in making their lives comfortable.
If killing ran rampant, who would do all the grunt work? Besides, all the unchecked bloodlust might make the "commoners" come after the "rulers" & the "commoners" far outnumber the "rulers". 'Elite' still means 'few' at the end of the day.

Why do people think government's so invested in regular people's sex lives? Why are they concerned about birth rates?
They need more fodder to do the grunt work that makes their lives paradise on earth.
Why do people care about what gay folks do? Why is gay marriage such a big deal? Because 2 men or 2 women can't make babies by themselves, that's why.
They have to regulate the "commoners" behaviors because they worry about people doing whatever they want. Maybe without the stigma of 'gay is bad' more people will have gay relations.

They let the immigrants in here because the local birth rate wasn't fast enough for their needs. The immigrants were only allowed in to do the grunt work & help populate the land for more grunts. But they were never to expect to be treated as equals. To the "rulers" they were just renting the place for a few generations.
Give us your tired, your hungry, your poor, they said. Great advertisement on the brochure.
Now it's put up a wall & send the (random ethnic slur) back to where they came from.

Once you put things in terms of The Elites and The People, everything becomes easier to understand.
In reality, we're ALL The People but the ones who consider themselves The Elite saw themselves as better than their fellow human being.
They are greedy, callous & selfish. They think everything belongs to them. They have separated from their humanity & the world suffers for it.

But there's a weakness, they know they are vastly outnumbered. They have to concoct endless strategies to keep the Ultimate Justice at bay.
Weapons that break bones & Psych games that break minds. That is what we have to undo. And once we do, this horrible way of life will end forever.

One of the first steps is to stop worshiping wealth & the wealthy who own that wealth.
ProudDad, seeing my comments here are you as proud of me as I am of you?
John Lucas

[Catherina]

113. The Black community is divided. Get out more. Many of us are very displeased. n/t

[olegramps]

125. Hate talk? I have heard a lot of justified criticism, no hate talk.

[totodeinhere]

148. I don't understand your logic. Progressive criticism of Obama has nothing to do with his race.

There are plenty of racists in the GOP and the Tea Party who oppose Obama for reasons of race. However, criticism of Obama that I have seen at DU and at progressive blogs and websites is not racist. The disagreement is over Obama's policies and tactics, not his race.

So the question I have is, why would black voters turn their backs on the Democrats just because many of us disagree with Obama's tactics and policies? It just doesn't make any sense. Or are you saying that black voters want to support Obama just because he is black regardless of his policies? Personally, I would give black voters much more credit than that.

[ProudDad]

32. If by "movement"

you mean pinning one's hopes on the Democrats, that's delusional...

They are the near-right-wing of the Corporate War Party. There's NO evidence over the last 25+ years to indicate that they are anything but that...

The Movement that needs to be built must be the one that acknowledges that class interest is paramount, that we of the lower classes are LOSING the class war big time, that the Democrats AND Republicans are two sides of the same coin in the Class War (that we're losing, by the way)...

The Movement that needs to be built must be one of secession from the corporate paradigm, rebuilding LOCAL economies and communities, relocalizing food and goods production, moving what assets one has left to LOCAL credit unions, setting up LOCAL financial instrumentalities, etc.

We must JOIN with the tea-baggers, the chicken raisers, the hippy family farmers, the post peak oil community instead of fighting with one another. We must ORGANIZE our communities to fight the class war by seceding from it.

And for GOD'S SAKE, STOP BUYING ANYTHING NOT ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY from ANY large corporation...!!! Starve the Beast!

But, folks, face it, YOU AIN'T GONNA GET ANY HELP FROM THE DUOPOLY!!!

[wndycty]

36. "you mean pinning one's hopes on the Democrats, that's delusional." this the DEMOCRATICUNDERGROUND

. . .so don't be upset if most of the folks here support the Democrats and the Democratic President.

[ProudDad]

41. It doesn't upset me

that so many folks are victims of the Stockholm Syndrome...

It does sadden me though...

Because it means that it's that much harder to build the Movement we need to survive...

[dionysus]

71. you've just stated clearly you have no respect for the democratic party or voters.

so what are you here to do?

[wndycty]

89. Plus 1,000,000

:kick:

[ProudDad]

139. Speak the Inconvenient Truths to those capable of listening... (n/t)

[johnlucas]

119. Stockholm Syndrome is right

How many years can people be willing to stooge for these suckers?
I've seen all I wanted to see from them, the Democrats.
Nearly 3 1/2 decades I've been watching them & they have shown me nothing.

I ain't gonna be Charlie Brown & be sucked into the football gag from Lucy time & time again.
No "AAUUUGHs" from me.
Next time I'm gonna kick Lucy.
John Lucas

[bvar22]

75. K&R Post #32 by ProudDad.

Please allow me to repeat:

"They are the near-right-wing of the Corporate War Party. There's NO evidence over the last 25+ years to indicate that they are anything but that...

The Movement that needs to be built must be the one that acknowledges that class interest is paramount, that we of the lower classes are LOSING the class war big time, that the Democrats AND Republicans are two sides of the same coin in the Class War (that we're losing, by the way)...

The Movement that needs to be built must be one of secession from the corporate paradigm, rebuilding LOCAL economies and communities, relocalizing food and goods production, moving what assets one has left to LOCAL credit unions, setting up LOCAL financial instrumentalities, etc.

We must JOIN with the tea-baggers, the chicken raisers, the hippy family farmers, the post peak oil community instead of fighting with one another. We must ORGANIZE our communities to fight the class war by seceding from it.

And for GOD'S SAKE, STOP BUYING ANYTHING NOT ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY from ANY large corporation...!!! Starve the Beast!"---ProudDad

When the Working Class & The Poor realize we have MORE in common with each other than we have in common with the ruling elite of either political party, "CHANGE" will happen.


---bvar22 & Starkraven :hippie: :hippie:

Producing MORE
"Consuming" LESS
Living well on a low "taxable" income
Wall Street can Live or Die without our money or concern

[ProudDad]

140. Beautiful, beautiful!

LOVE that picture...

I wish I had more room than my little 20 sq. foot garden here in the desert...

thanks :hi:

[frazzled]

126. Take your own advice and get off your computer

Which undoubtedly contains parts from some corporation. The hypocrisy here would be laughable if it weren't so pathetic. I dare you to refuse to make use of your machine, your internet connection, or even this web site, which is filled with corporate advertising and dependent on servers produced by corporations.

Join with the tea-baggers? If you are an example of the left (and I sincerely doubt it), blindness reigns supreme, and the self-professed faux left has aligned itself with the libertarian, populist right.

I can't believe I'm even responding to the lunacy on this board. I can barely stand to look at it anymore.

[ProudDad]

141. This board is a hotbed of logic errors...

Thanks for adding to the noise level... :hi:

[Ikonoklast]

154. You can try to find common ground with racist teabaggers.

Count me out on that one.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

158. Join the teabaggers? Are you insane?

Enjoy soaking up their racism. And last I checked, computers and internet access come from large corporations. You're not starving the beast -- you're shoving food down its throat.

:rofl:

[MH1]

124. They don't 'have' to realize that

just as an alcoholic doesn't 'have' to realize he needs to quit drinking, with help if necessary ... if he actually wants to ever have decent relationships with others again.

just as a chauvinistic jerkwad doesn't 'have' to realize that he needs to cool it ... if he actually wants an intelligent woman in his life and not a doormat.

just as obnoxiously evangelistic 'Christians' don't 'have' to realize that they are turning more people away by their words and actions, and they need to figure out better strategy ... if they actually want to help anyone to a better life, spiritually or otherwise.

The analogies could go on an on but they all have one thing in common ... the person is only going to be interested in the reality of their actions, if they actually WANT what they supposedly want.

False assumption in many cases.

[nckjm]

128. I respectfully suggest however...

there may still be Democrats who support Obama but I feel fairly secure in saying that not many, if any, progressives still support him. I think what those who voted for CHANGE must now squarely face is that on issues most critical for positive change in this country he has failed miserably, consistently and totally....ending two unnecessary wars, ending DADT, affordable healthcare for all, and ending tax cuts for millionaires. It is time to focus on the future. Obama is not the future of the Democratic party or any other party. He had his shot. We have seen his inability to affect change. Our focus must now turn towards working for progressive candidates and pray to God that a progressive leader emerges that we can run in the primaries in 2012. The best way to counter the deep depression caused by the Obama administration is to awaken within individuals the belief that better days are ahead...which they still have the power to create.

[flpoljunkie]

11. He also has to fight those Democrats on the right who might as well be Republicans on fiscal issues.

[theaocp]

13. Indeed.

And where's the fight? Did he fight Blanche Lincoln? Did he fight Lieberman back in the day? Does he call out Baucus, Nelson, or ANY blue dog?

[flpoljunkie]

31. Lincoln did vote today for both the Baucus and Schumer amendments re expiring tax cuts.

The president never calls out anyone by name.

Lieberman, on the other hand, voted no on both amendments. He stands with the Republicans who are holding out for tax cuts for multi-millionaires and billionaires.

[ProudDad]

35. Well, he supported Lincoln against the Progressive who was running against her

in the primary... :shrug:

What does that tell you?

[Uzybone]

44. Halter was a progressive?

Boy what low standards folks have nowadays.

[ProudDad]

49. Comparatively

Obama chose the republican over republican-lite...

[BklnDem75]

155. That he's smart?

Only fools campaign against incumbents in their own party.

[theaocp]

12. The President embraces the corporations and

I'll call him a corporatist. If that hurts someone's feelings enough that they don't want to work with me, that's a sad day for them.

[wndycty]

14. It doesn't hurt my feelings but what it does it makes me not want to have anything to do with you. .

. . .there are a lot of folks who support Obama, are frustrated with him, but still support him and will work together to advance a progressive agenda.

When you resort to the name calling you basically identify yourself as someone we don't want anything to do with. . .

[Peregrine Took]

15. Then you won't want to have anything to do with me either.

P.S. Your link doesn't work.

[ProudDad]

40. And how is "supporting" someone who has completely BLOCKED

the Progressive Agenda be "advancing" a progressive agenda?

No name calling, just close observation to the actions and tone of the Administration... :shrug:

[Recursion]

63. Irrelevant. We're talking about Obama

Obama is not someone who has completely blocked the progressive agenda, so your question is moot.

[donheld]

104. Sigh

[Union Scribe]

19. So you share our frustrations, but we're ignorant haters. Okay.

Real olive branch you're reaching out with there.

[wndycty]

21. Take it how you wish. The reality is the critics on the left are not extending olive branches. . .

. . .and in many ways are not deserving of them either.

[Name removed]

22. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[wndycty]

23. I'm not pretending anything. . .I support this president, I am a progressive and . . .

. . .I'm working toward progressive victory in 2012.

[Bluerthanblue]

86. you may have seen an "eyeful" but your eyeful is not necessarily

accurate. I've been an Obama supporter since the primary here in NH. There are several areas I disagree with him on for example:

how we should deal with Afghanistan

his view that Universal Single Payer Health Care wasn't achievable because of the system that was already in place. He articulated that back during the debates, saying that 'ideally, universal single payer was the way to go' but that it was unrealistic given the present circumstances.

holding individuals from the last administration accountable for actions that I believe were not only immoral but illegal, yet I can understand some of the reasons why he hasn't pursued this. yet.

I believe that:
DADT should be repealed-
the use of predator drones is wrong
capitol punishment should be abandoned,
marijuana should be de-decriminalized
nuclear energy should not be expanded and more than a few other things.

I've never claimed that Pres.Obama has never made a mistake. I think you'd be hard-pressed to find an Obama supporter here that WOULD make that claim- It's interesting that you only see name-calling and sarcasm and incriminations being aimed against what you call "the left and progressives". I've been accused of having drunk the 'kool-aid', blindly following in "lock-step", seeking a Messiah, being mentally ill and unable to think for myself because of my support for Barack Obama the candidate, as well as President.

I've been disappointed on more than a few occasions by decisions that have been made. Expressing disappointment is fine but ranting and raving and encouraging people to give up on this administration and calling those who refuse to foolish names doesn't help anyone, and hurts all of us imo.

You may think that when the President makes a decision that you disagree with that he is clearly wrong- but it IS possible that the mistake is yours. Unless you are infallible. Would you want to be held to a standard that meant you had to please everyone all the time?

NO 'leader' is going to make decisions that you completely agree with, and often, they're going to make decision that even THEY would rather not. That doesn't mean they haven't considered the issues carefully, and made decisions after alot of thought.

I believe that Pres. Obama is a man of integrity whose sincere desire is to do his best for all of us. Sometimes the choices aren't easy sometimes the choices are among "bad" and "worse"- but I do not doubt that he is working hard and trying to remain true to his promises.

Those who call him a "corporate sell-out" or a "republican" or "spineless" are little better than those who stand on the mall with their hate inspired posters portraying him as Hitler or Bin Laden etc. imo.

I forgive your doubts. Everyone deserves to be treated with respect. Everyone deserves to be judged fairly on their actions, and be allowed to hold opinions that I don't share without be clobbered. I think the President should be afforded that respect as well. Do you?

[Union Scribe]

87. The President has squandered my respect

A respect I had for him since before most people knew his name, unless they lived in Illinois. You list quite a few things I agree on disagreeing with Obama about, but unlike you I don't believe that he simply has "yet" to deal with them. Some of those are not matters of time, but fundamental governing philosophy. Such as predator drones. He's not going to stop using those, it's abundantly clear.

And when enough of those sorts of issues, things that aren't a matter of "give him more time" but rather "what the hell is he thinking doing that," stack up to a certain point, I can't any longer support him in good conscience.

So, on some of those things you can say to yourself that he needs more time, but on other issues I don't know what exactly you're waiting for, because those are just how he's chosen to do things.

[Bluerthanblue]

90. the only issue that I intended to imply that might change in time is

the prosecution of Bush and Cheney.

I also believe that he will follow through on his statement that DADT will be repealed before he leaves office.

I do think that unlike many politicians, he is willing to listen to the perspectives of others and tries to keep his mind open to the possibility that he could be wrong. Some people see that as a deficit, I'm not one of those.

He wasn't willing to give up on health care, even if the plan that went through was way less than what even he hoped it could be. He made some pretty big enemies with that, on both sides of the isle, but I do think that if the issue was allowed to fail entirely it would likely have been years and years before another chance to bring it up came- and that I also believe that not only is there room to 'tweak' the program that is in place, I think there are plans to do so. Maybe I'm wrong, but I believe this, and I believe in the end the public will not only realize this, but support meaningful change. If we can stop the mis-information that the right-wing used and the media trumpeted-"death panels" etc.

I'm sorry you feel do disillusioned that you feel you need to oppose Pres. Obama. I'll say again that I believe he really wants to do what is best for everyone, and that it is unlikely that any other viable Democratic candidate would/could have done any better.

And I'd hope that you'd agree that had McCain/Palin been elected, we'd be en even deeper sneakers right now.
Thank you for listening and sharing your perspective.

peace~

[wndycty]

92. I predict DADT will be repealed before the end of the year

:kick:

[Bluerthanblue]

94. I hope it is, but if not, I fully believe it will be before the next

presidential election- I think Pres.O will make sure of that.

:hi:

[ibegurpard]

24. I'm not interested in your motivations

If you support policy I don't agree with you are not my ally.

[wndycty]

25. What policy do I support that you do not agree with?

And more importantly

How many folks support some of the policies you do, but also support some of the policies you don't. Do you have permanent enemies? Permanent allies? Or folks that you work with sometime and work against other times?

[Laelth]

26. +1 n/t

-Laelth

[pscot]

27. That's dumb

We have to quit choosing up sides against one another. We can't possibly all agree on every point. Get real.

[wndycty]

28. Exactly. . .

. . .unlike Republicans the Democratic party and progressive movement has a lot of diversity on the issues/priorities and unless we understand that we hurt our cause.

[dgibby]

38. I think the word your looking for is DEMOCRATIC party, not Democrat,

but I could be wrong.

[wndycty]

43. You are right, but lets not attribute every typo to someone being a wing nut. . .

:kick:

[dgibby]

46. Did I say that?

No? I didn't think so.

[ProudDad]

45. If you'll look closely

or even superficially (like the OP)...

You'll find that the Republicans have the same problem with internecine warfare...

It's because most of the activists in both parties are fighting the wrong war...

It's the Class War, Stupid!

The upper regions of both parties, nearly ALL of the politicians of both "parties" in Congress and the White House are congruent in their world view and work toward the same ends...

And they aren't the same ends we work toward...

So, as I said before, pinning your hopes on either right-wing of the Corporate War Party is delusional...

[ProudDad]

29. Face facts...

Obama IS a corporatist, a capitalist true-believer...so he can't be a "sell-out" since he does the work of his new class.

He IS a sell-out to the working class and the poor though...

The media is OWNED by the Upper Class, run by the Upper Class and operated in the interest of the Upper Class...It is the most effective propaganda machine for Empire ever devised by man...Stalin and Hitler would have plotzed if they had had one as effective...

So don't expect the mainstream media to help out the working classes at ALL...That's not their job...

Between now and 2012 the republicrats, the democans and Obama will be unified in continuing the transfer of wealth from the Commons to the Upper Classes that they were hired to do...

Facts! Face it!

[wndycty]

33. So you can imagine that with an attitude like that I don't see you as an ally or someone I could...

. . .work with, don't you?

If you believe that, why should I believe that you would support this Democratic president?

[ProudDad]

47. If the ONLY way you can see to promote a Progressive agenda

is to support THIS "Democrat" pResident...

Then, yes, we cannot be allies...

I would appreciate it if you could list some of the elements of your "progressive agenda" that supporting Obama could accomplish...

I'll start with some elements of my Progressive Agenda:

As a start, implement the economic policies detailed by Robert Reich in his latest book...(you should get and read a copy if you want to fully understand the current economic collapse - the title is "Aftershock")

End the Empire -- power down for sustainability thus eliminating the need to spend $1.2 trillion per year on the war machine -- the BIGGEST drain on the USAmerican economy...

END THE FICTION OF CORPORATE PERSONHOOD! They COULD have started with the Disclosure legislation but, alas, I'm sure most of the Dems heard from their real constituents -- the uber-rich campaign contributors -- and ignored that piece of legislation...

Sharply curtail the polluting industries -- a hefty carbon tax to start -- and start jailing some of the major polluters...

Change the tax structure to reward the working classes instead of the leeches at the top...to provide funding for relocalizing economies instead of concentrating the wealth in global tax havens for the rich.

After that, recognize that the "economy" exists WITHIN the Natural World, NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND. We must restructure society with a sustainable paradigm that recognizes the rights of Nature as being equal to those of humans -- there will be NO Peace or Justice on a dead planet...

Just off the top of my head...

Any of these we can expect Obama and the Democrats to PROPOSE, let alone accomplish?

However, I'm sure they would ALL resonate with us working class folk if Obama spoke them out loud and hammered on them in the bully pulpit...of course then they'd have to "take him out"...

[wndycty]

48. Good so I know you aren't on the team for 2012. . .no need to waste my time on you

:kick:

[Name removed]

50. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Recursion]

53. Why do you distinguish between "progressive" and "corporatist"? (nt)

[ProudDad]

56. Why can't you see the difference? (n/t)

[Recursion]

57. Because the great progressives I think of like FDR were corporatists too

So I don't see why there's this assumption that you can only be one or the other.

[Jennicut]

98. DU is a board for Democrats. Dems that are usually mostly liberal.

[ProudDad]

143. DU is (or was <shrug>)

Democratic Underground (DU) was founded on Inauguration Day, January 20, 2001, to protest the illegitimate presidency of George W. Bush and to provide a resource for the exchange and dissemination of liberal and progressive ideas. Since then, DU has become one of the premier left-wing websites on the Internet, publishing original content six days a week, and hosting one of the Web's most active left-wing discussion boards.

We welcome Democrats of all stripes, along with other progressives who will work with us to achieve our shared goals. While the vast majority of our visitors are Democrats, this web site is not affiliated with the Democratic Party, nor do we claim to speak for the party as a whole.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/about.html

----------------------

Electing Democrats just because they have (-D) behind their name is hardly a "Progressive goal"...

[Name removed]

39. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ProudDad]

51. You're welcome... (n/t)

[dgibby]

42. Obama describes himself as a New Democrat.

That's DLC, which is Blue Dog, which is ANYTHING but progressive/liberal/left.

[ProudDad]

52. Indeed...

Anyone who self-describes as a "passionate Obama supporter" is supporting a self admitted corporatist...

[Recursion]

55. Yup, just like FDR

Corporatist progressives have gotten great things done.

[ProudDad]

58. FDR was NOT Progressive...

He had a number of people around him who were smart enough to know that if they co-opted a few crumbs from the Progressive agenda they would save Capitalism...

For a while...

"Corporate Progressive" is a world class oxymoron like "military justice"...

[Recursion]

54. DLC is different from the Blue Dogs

For the thousandth time, they are two totally different caucuses; the only member they have in common is Jane Harman.

[ProudDad]

59. Libertarian twaddle... (n/t)

[Recursion]

60. Wait. Neither the blue dogs nor the DLC are remotely libertarian

Or are you calling me a libertarian, for pointing out that the two caucuses only share one member in common?

[ProudDad]

64. Ok, Smoke Screen

strawman...

red herring...

irrelevant post...

Satisfied?

[Recursion]

66. No. It's a simple factual point that I'm right about

The Blue Dog Coalition and the New Democrat Network are two almost completely different groups of legislators and have different goals and priorities. Blue dogs oppose gun control; NDN supports it. Blue dogs are generally pro-life; NDN are pro-choice. Blue dogs oppose free trade; NDN supports it. etc. Blue dogs are more socially conservative and more economically populist than New Democrats.

[Celtic Raven]

133. And he's called himself both

So apparently they share more than just one person in common.

Chris Bowers , Open Left at 4:36 AM on March 12, 2009.

Uh Oh: Obama Calls Himself a New Democrat
Just in case there was any doubt about which wing of the Democratic Party President Obama sides with, he put that to rest yesterday. While he has long resisted ideological labels, President Obama declared himself to be a New Democrat:

President Barack Obama firmly resists ideological labels, but at the end of a private meeting with a group of moderate Democrats on Tuesday afternoon, he offered a statement of solidarity.

"I am a New Democrat," he told the New Democrat Coalition, according to two sources at the White House session.

More at link:
http://www.alternet.org/blogs/peek/131210/uh_oh%3A_obama_calls_himself_a_new_democrat/

Wednesday, December 1. 2010

President Obama: 'I'm a Blue Dog Democrat'
This excerpt from a piece by the New York Times' Matt Bai caught my eye: (emphasis added)

The body of Mr. Obama's writing and experiences before he became a presidential candidate would suggest that he is instinctively pragmatic, typical of an emerging generation that sees all political dogma -- be it '60s liberalism or '80s conservatism -- as anachronistic. Privately, Mr. Obama has described himself, at times, as essentially a Blue Dog Democrat, referring to the shrinking caucus of fiscally conservative members of the party.

The reason the president describes himself this way in private is because if he said it publicly, people would laugh at him -- much in the way most will when they read this excerpt.

Update: Ed Morrissey notes the ever-changing nature of the president's political self-description:

Barack Obama must be having one hell of an identity crisis. He campaigned for office as a post-partisan moderate, but has governed as a big government tax-and-spender. When talking to the New Democrat Coalition in March 2009 -- just after his Keynesian plan to spend $800 billion for economic stimulus -- Obama told them he was a New Democrat. Five weeks ago, Obama told liberal bloggers that he is really a progressive.

More at link:
http://www.theneweditor.com/index.php?/archives/12170-President-Obama-Im-a-Blue-Dog-Democrat.html

So as a Liberal I have a problem with the President being either a New Democrat or a Blue Dog since both caucuses are essentially Republican-lite in their ideology & voting.

[BklnDem75]

157. Still waiting for that quote

Thanks for whenever you find it. I won't hold my breath.

[Mimosa]

61. Disagreeing with Prez policies & attempting to present alternatives is not 'attacking'

I don't call the President names.

[Recursion]

62. No, but saying he's going to be a one-termer is

So is calling him a sell-out, a stooge, a whore, a traitor, and a tool of "corporations". All of which I've seen on this board recently.

[ProudDad]

144. Truth can hurt, can't it? (n/t)

[BeyondGeography]

65. A noble post

:thumbsup:

[CreekDog]

67. I've become a vigorous critic, but never call him corporatist, traitor, etc.

i really don't know what he is.

i just criticize based on what he's done and not done.

he the most powerful person in America and probably the best able to defend and articulate our issues.

but he's not using his power and he's not articulating effectively.

that's inexcusable.

[wndycty]

70. And because you don't call names you are more effective because I'm willing

To consider your points, it makes a huge difference.

[VMI Dem]

68. Centrist appeasers are a dime a dozen.

Nothing special about this President.

[great white snark]

73. So are the serial haters.

:hi:

[Aristus]

69. You know where I stand, wndycty.

I'm stickin'.

:patriot:

[tallahasseedem]

72. Recommended

Very well said!

[great white snark]

74. Kick and Rec.

Thank you wndycty. United we stand.

[saorsa]

76. see here's the problem

if passionate Obama supporters don't raise a fuss with Obama things will continue to get worse. We are watching disasters unfold in front of us day after day, and the democracy is being undermined and degraded, as our leaders are herded to the right, always dancing to the tune of the Right Wing.
It is OUR job, not Obama's to make our future. Meanwhile the Right Wing as always has the reigns in both hands. They control the discourse, because they have had the greatest influence in the mass media for decades, by design, in a strategy of buying up the 'opinion forming' media sources still used by most Americans to get their news. Our own leaders in the Democratic Party did everything possible to make that easier for them. Negligent in it's duties? The main stream media? Please, they have done their duty well, their duty is to their bosses, mostly for money. That's why we call them media whores now.
This has been going on for years and during all that time our Democratic Leaders did nothing to expand the base, to make it strong and to help it to grow. In fact they seem to have deliberately squashed any effort for a permanent structure to accomplish that.
So if there is no bold and courageous action demanded of the person at the top, and there is no ongoing strategy of growth and movement building at the bottom,
what is left that is recognizable as a real opposition to the Republican Right Wing Machine ? Not much. Not much their for the despairing voter to get enthused over. If your margin of victory is those discouraged voters, shouldn't you be doing the things that will encourage them, like fighting for the things they elected you to fight for?
Obama's critics on the left do acknowledge the challenges he faces. I read those acknowledgments throughout the last two years in many articles, perhaps you are not getting a wide enough sample of progressive views from your media sources? Or is your characterization of Obama's critics just the usual shut down device, linking progressive pressure to Republican Strategy ? There is nothing new there, Republicans have always exploited Democratic weakness, and the Democratic Leaderships lack of solidarity with it's own base has always been the greatest weakness that we Democratic voters have had to pay the price for.
These challenges we speak of are exactly the challenges that he ( and WE) signed up for. We are supposed to overcome the challenges and change our situation. Underneath the polite language of this post, is anger and fear, but directed at other Democrats, and in particular progressive Democrats who demand accountability from their elected leaders and their party. We signed on for the principles, all of them. We are tired of waiting decades for our elected officials to serve the people who elected them and fight for the democratic principles they claim to hold in common with us.
Obama does not need protecting from his BASE, ok? That is what we are. We are not Democrats because of Obama. Obama is President because WE are Democrats. We voted for him, no matter whether it was in the sincere expectation that he would honor his campaign promises, or whether it was to prevent the election of John McCain. We are the Democrats, we are the voters, we are supposed to dictate to him that he fulfill his obligation to those who elected him.
That is Democracy. If you don't hold elected officials accountable, then what are you? A serf? Someone who served the purpose of giving one man the most powerful position on the planet but once he gets elected the voter/serf gets only a pat on the back or a kick in the teeth?
For cryin out loud, nobody EVER beat the Right Wing by cuddling it to death. Where do you think the votes will come from if Obama does not honor his base? Who will listen to us when we go out and try to get their votes, and people say to us, Where are the jobs? Where is the openness and inclusion? Where is the justice, where is the defense of our Constitution or our planet's ecosystem, where is the all that stuff? What shall we say, well maybe someday when the Right Wing comes around to our way of thinking.....!
Without accountability, voting has no meaning. We have swallowed too many bitter pills and compromises for too long and it has weakened this party, strengthened the Right Wing, and undermined the very idea of our Republic. Too many Americans simply do not vote. Too many Americans are under or misinformed. Too many Americans who would vote are convinced their votes no longer count, as every time they vote for change, the newly elected or re-elected leadership backs away, off to hide safely in their cushy job for another term. They rock no boats, they practice capitulation and compromise and connivance, and flick off voter complaints like specks of dust because they know that we will be forced to vote for them in the next election in order to avoid Republican victories.
Enough, there is no more time left for this never ending game. We are nearly compromised into oblivion as a party, under the current leadership.
Do your kids deserve the America you want to give them or don't they? I think they do, I think mine do too.

[ibegurpard]

77. excellent response...needs some formatting changes though

I found it difficult to keep my place while reading

[johnlucas]

121. Real talk from saorsa!

You & ProudDad are hitting it out of the park today!

Either the Democratic Party stands up for Progressive principles or they fall to the wayside as a political party.
It's that binary now.

How many more decades of half-measures & quarter-measures will it take for people to get off this bad ride?
They can do better than this & they will do better...or become obsolete.
John Lucas

[ProudDad]

145. Isn't it interesting

that my thread about "Inside Job" and the Obama economic team was locked...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=433x542663

But this one goes on and on... :shrug:

(And look QUICK 'cause this post will probably be deleted soon... :) )

:hi:

[Union Scribe]

129. "nobody EVER beat the Right Wing by cuddling it to death"

Excellent post, I'd gladly reccomend that as its own thread!

[Celtic Raven]

134. Excellent post!

:applause: :applause: :applause:

Thank you.

[Paladin]

142. Eloquent And Absolutely Dead-On. Thank You, Saorsa.

Your post ought to be required reading for every Obama apologist at DU.

[TheKentuckian]

147. Go run and OP that

[yurbud]

80. how often do we have to acknowledge his accomplishments before criticism is valid?

I tell my students all the time about changes to the college student loan program, and acknowledge the good parts of the health care reform law and the appointment of Elizabeth Warren.

Those good things are few and far between though, and the problem with his solutions not being radical enough is that the more tepid, incremental, and down in the policy weeds an action is, the less time it will take for the wealthy to convince us with PR campaigns that it was a bad change and the easier it will be for Republicans to roll it back later.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

81. Good point, but you're wrong when you assert that the attacks are only from the left.

Most of the attacks are from the middle and Independents. As much as we progressives/liberals want to believe otherwise, we can't win elections on our own. We need Independents who are flocking to Republicans.

So the president's hands are tied. And as much as I've been incredibly disappointed and angry with him and the Democrats, they are being pulled from many different directions.

The president/Dems need better messaging. They need to find a way to get this narrative out to the public. With a Corporate Media that allows so much airtime to Republicans and Sarah Palin, I don't see how we can overcome the beast.

Therefore, we're stuck. We're already defeated if we can't do a better job on getting the message out.

So, I see what you're saying, but an overwhelming majority of liberals--85%--still support the president. Liberals are his greatest problem. Independents are.

[wndycty]

82. I appreciate your point

:kick:

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

84. I meant to type that liberals *aren't* his biggest problem. Independents and moderates are.

This is something that I wish people like Ed Schultz and Adam Green understood.

[DemocraticPilgrim]

83. AGREE, what about our bully pulpit. why is it on one mans shoulders to get the message. it??

[ruggerson]

85. People who rationally criticize his policies and strategy are also routinely lambasted here

Some of his supporters like to pretend that all criticism of this administration is "bashing" and "hatred," because then they don't have to address or engage the actual underlying legitimate policy debate.

[Pisces]

91. Very well said Windy.

[political_Dem]

93. K and R.

One gets surprised when witnessing fellow party members show their true colors when voicing these ugly memes and engaging in disgusting name calling.

What is worse is that the policy issues get passed by while the bashing and trash talking becomes more
commonplace--especially without empathy or remorse.

[Raine]

96. Well if I wouldn't accept a stance from the repukes

I will take it even less from someone on my own side that I voted for and I refuse to be silent about it. :mad:

[LittleBlue]

99. So what? Do you want a gold star?

This reminds me of a child who thinks she should get recognition for pooping by herself.

You have an opinion. And it's not the same as another group's opinion. Congratulations!

[JoePhilly]

101. I'm with you ... and if you compare it to tradiitonal warfare ...

which I know will tick off some on DU ...

But the reality is that the Army, Air Force, Navy and Marines are always competing with each other ... they have different priorities, and different short and long term goals. But they NEVER attack each other.

We on the left, divide into camps, and then lose site of the strategic enemy. And rather than fight the actual enemy, we fight each other.

Its dumb.

[wndycty]

102. Plus 1,000,000

:kick:

[CakeGrrl]

107. I think a lot of posters here are beyond reasonable discourse

When he's "despised", when he's called "small", "pathetic", "weak", "wimp", "spineless", when people are ascribing his actions to mental illness or to being a Republican Trojan Horse plant :wtf: - there's no reasoning with those attitudes. And people who say those things or enthusiastically co-sign them should not pretend to being open to reasonable discussion.

[ruggerson]

111. I also see a lot of reasonable criticism here

that is immediately responded to with "hater" or similar limited minded epithets.

So far, at least, this President has not been an enormously partisan, ideologically based leader in the sense that FDR or Johnson were.

Does that mean I hate him? Of course not.

Does that mean I won't vote for him again? Nope. Even a co-opting Democrat is better than a Republican.

It means I would prefer a driven, progressive ideologue who wages a partisan war against the Republicans and risks great failure in a staggering, breathless bid for great success.

[CakeGrrl]

112. There is reasonable criticism, yours being a case in point; however, it

does not negate the epithets I listed and have seen used.

If people could state their dissatisfaction or counterargue at the level you posted, threads would not get locked or posts deleted. But there have been plenty of them that clearly violate the current rules.

People should and probably do know better, but it doesn't stop them.

[johnlucas]

122. Wrong! A co-opting Democrat is NOT better than Republican

See? That's how you guys ended up with this mediocrity in the first place.
You're so hard up for the real deal that you'll take the counterfeit when it doesn't show up.

You're waiting for Pizza Hut stuffed crust, they bring you that tired styrofoam frozen square-shaped pizza from the supermarket, & you eat it up trying to make-believe it's just as good. That cheap frozen shit ain't no Pizza Hut stuffed crust & you know it!

You have had decade upon decade upon decade of co-opting weak-hearted simpering wimpering softshoe Democrats in your government & the result of that is the Republican way taking over time & time again.

So no, a co-opting Democrat AIN'T better than a Republican.
Co-opting Democrats like Clinton pushed Bush Sr.'s NAFTA program which finished off what was left of the manufacturing sector of the U.S.
This so-called Globalism which allows these crooked corporations to supercede national boundaries & labor laws to get cheaper labor.
His so-called protection clauses did jackshit to protect workers & look where we are now. A virtually total service economy.

Then Newt & his boys took over & distracted the populace with BJs from silly starstruck White House interns.

Those co-opting Democrats got behind Bush Jr.'s war & then refused to impeach him for his war crimes. Well how can they? They were just as complicit as he was.

Your co-opting Democrats had the game in the bag & coulda done national health care the right way. Instead we get this watered down tripe trying to pass it off as a success. They didn't need to consult the Republicans. They had the power to push it through if they wanted to. No guts to fight is why it ended up like it did. That beloved bipartisanship they love to talk about.

Gimme that driven progressive ideologue who wages partisan war against the feckless Republicans & risks permanently wiping them off the political map for great success.
I'm tired of the co-opters. That's so yesterday. I want my Pizza Hut stuffed crust!
John Lucas

[ruggerson]

132. I prefer a partisan ideologue myself

but Presidents appoint judges. For that reason alone, we should vote for Obama's reelection. Co-optor that he is, I'd rather have him appointing center/liberal judges than having to deal with more religious rightwing freaks appointed by any hypothetical Republican President.

[Lisa0825]

108. Thank you. K&R

[kentuck]

109. I hear you, wndycty...

But the President and the Democratic Party cannot lose the support of the people. The power is with the people. When the people begin to feel that they no longer matter, that no one is fighting for them, they tend to drift away. This empowers Republicans to pass all kinds of crazy shit that is bad for average working Democrats.

The President needs the people behind him. If he should lose that support, it would be bad for all of us.

The President wants to work with the Republicans. He sincerely wants to do what is best for the country, in my opinion. He is trying to be "post-partisan", I think?

Unfortunately, the Repubs will not permit him to do what he would like to do. They are not a force for good in our politics, in my opinion. The President must recognize certain realities. The Repubs are trying to sabotage everything he attempts to do. Those that criticize him are not necessarily his enemies. They may be the best friends he has?

[Steve_I_Am]

117. The surest way for Obama . . .

and the Democratic party to LOSE everything in 2012 will be for Obama, and the Democrats to continue their unilateral capitulation to the GOP.

The President NEEDS to stand and fight for the middle-class. If he does (even if he loses the battle) he will win back support from those of us on the left. If he does not, he is a one term president, for sure.

[Mimosa]

152. The President NEEDS to stand and fight for the middle-class (and the poor).n/t

[StarsInHerHair]

118. it seems more like Obama and his circle are attacking the Left, not the other

way around. W did just fine with all of the opposition to him.

[Itchinjim]

123. KNR

[olegramps]

127. All I hear is the desire for substantive change and frustration because of gridlock.

I really don't give a damn that the realities of the situation are not conducive for significant changes. Rather than agreeing to compromises that actually make the situation worse I would rather that the president stand on principle and lose. I contend that the so called health care reform worsened the situation since it actually legitimized the health care crooks. If congress passes a bill that extends the tax rip off benefits for the wealthy then veto the damn thing and tell the citizens that you did it to save the nation from bankruptcy and will no longer tolerate the wealthy getting richer while destroying the Middle Class. The time to play nice is over with. This is out and out class warfare and he better chose which side he is on or face the massive abandonment.

[ProudDad]

146. Here's your major problem.

You assume that the political process, elections, Democratic Party/Republican Party, the Congress and the White House are the dog and that the economic system and how it's structured to benefit the upper class is the tail...

You think that if you just "elect" the right man, push for incremental "change" and prevent the OTHER EVIL PARTY from having the "power" that things will get better...

Meanwhile, Democratic Congress or Republican Congress or Democratic pResident or Republican pResident, nothing is substantially changed and things have gotten steadily worse for We the People in all ways...

See, the "SYSTEM" is the dog! The vampire capitalists have ALL of the "Power" because We the People have ceded it to them; in great part by believing in the Kabuki theater that is the "political system" and elections!

I would love to see you good folk who expected so much from Obama realize the truth of our situation and join with those of us who are taking active steps in our local communities to secede from an entirely corrupt system and create our own better lives...

[Mimosa]

151. I try to not be disagreeable when disagreeing. Namecalling is unhelpful.

Unless one calls Repiglicans names. ;)

[Sheepshank]

153. Damn that rec button

I hit unrec by mistake...awesome post.

Frankly I have a hard time giving any critisim because I don't want anyone to think that I support or buy into those extreme negativisms about Obama...I don't, I won't.

[ieoeja]

156. You are absolutely correct. And I am very close to outright opposing an Obama reelection.

But you won't see me hurling insults. That shit just pisses me off and makes a lot of DUers look like petty assholes.

That said, if he continues the tax holiday, I am done with Obama. I have only ever donated directly to one politician, and that was when I gave Obama the maximum allowable by law. But he can kiss that, and, yes, my vote too, goodbye with this tax holiday.