Every dollar we spend in Afghanistan is a dollar we can't spend on the America people

[IndianaGreen]

Cross of Iron Speech

Address by President Dwight D. Eisenhower "The Chance for Peace" delivered before the American Society of Newspaper Editors, April 16,1953.

Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed.

This world in arms in not spending money alone.

It is spending the sweat of its laborers, the genius of its scientists, the hopes of its children.

The cost of one modern heavy bomber is this: a modern brick school in more than 30 cities.

It is two electric power plants, each serving a town of 60,000 population.

It is two fine, fully equipped hospitals.

It is some 50 miles of concrete highway.

We pay for a single fighter with a half million bushels of wheat.

We pay for a single destroyer with new homes that could have housed more than 8,000 people.

This, I repeat, is the best way of life to be found on the road the world has been taking.

This is not a way of life at all, in any true sense. Under the cloud of threatening war, it is humanity hanging from a cross of iron.

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article9743.htm

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

1. A trillion or so redirected.

Every year.

Fact.

[natrat]

2. who cares? more for profiteers

[Th1onein]

3. What gets me is that when Dems are in charge the Pubs start talking about too much spending.

They do this EVERY time power changes hands. When will the idiots wake up and get it?

[Jim Sagle]

4. That's not a bug, it's a feature.

[inna]

5. i wish i could recommend this more than once. nt

[Mithreal]

6. K&R Needs to be posted every day

[boppers]

7. How many World Trade Centers is a bomber airplane worth?

How many Pentagon wings?
How many lives?

[IndianaGreen]

9. How many Afghanis were on the hijacked planes on 9-11?

How many innocent civilians have we killed for every person that died on WTC?

[azul]

11. The answer, my friend, is not blowing in the wind.

It can be figured in dollars spent and lives destroyed vs dollars otherwise spent on ending poverty and injustices and the resulting lives saved and conflicts avoided.

When it makes enough business sense, because real people don't seem to be in charge much nowadays?

[zulchzulu]

10. Ask Bush and his buddies on PNAC. It helped cause two wars that they wanted badly

If you want to believe the story about the hijackers coming from Afghanistan, then that's something you can amuse yourself with.

Ferchrissakes...

[boppers]

29. PNAC was about an IT revolution.

Distorting context fails when the person you are having a discussion with has, uhm, actually read the source documents.

[spiritual_gunfighter]

13. Dick Cheney is that you? n/t

[BrklynLiberal]

19. LOL

:thumbsup:

[reggie the dog]

15. considering the strong possibility that 911 was an inside job

And that our wars in Afghanistan and Iraq actually make recruiting terrorists easier I dont see how bomber planes are worth anything.

[boppers]

30. That's a thought worth considering...

The "planes cost" part (I happen to not be part of the LIHOP/MIHOP crowd).

If we stopped spending on military, and instead absorbed the costs of terrorist as part of life, would we be living better lives?

[Sebastian Doyle]

16. How many dead Americans, Iraqis, and Afghanis is one Bush Crime Family LIE worth?

Apparently not enough yet :evilfrown:

[boppers]

31. Bush, Clinton, Bush, Reagan, Carter, lies....

This game of half truths has gone on long enough.

[Thothmes]

38. Do not forget Lyndon Johnson and Richard Nixon

Same lies, different countries.

[liberation]

23. I dunno, maybe you can answer us how many Afghanis and Iraquis were in the planes hitting the WTC?

[boppers]

33. Do you mean the attackers, or passengers?

How many Russian nationals were part of Castro's puppet takeover of Cuba? None.
How many American nationals were in the Iranian puppet government? None.

The whole "look at the nationality of the puppets" points away from "look who was pulling the strings".

It's cute in magic tricks... but I was raised by a stage magician, so I tend to not be fooled quite as easily.

There are folks who are puppets, and even more amusing, people who *claim* puppetry with no evidence.

[Vidar]

8. K&R.

[avaistheone1]

12. Americans will become ever more impoverished as a result of Obama's wars.

[timeforpeace]

14. Absolutely. K&R.

[quinnox]

17. At least republicans are happy

It was disgusting to see all the right wing republicans line up to defend Obama's war policy, all the republicans love is war and death.

[BrklynLiberal]

18. that is why I cringe when I hear the repukes - who entusiastically back the additional

troops in Afghanistan...moan and groan about the "debt" that would be incurred by the funding of so-called "entitlement programs" and the enactment of health care reform!!

They are such disgusting hypocrites...downright liars!!!!

[Honeycombe8]

20. No wars = no country, no towns, no schools, no freedom, no votes...

Some wars are just and necessary. Would you have us not help free France from the Third Reich? Would you have us not fight Great Britain for America's Independence and representation for the heavy taxation being doled out to our ancestors by G.B.? Would you have us stand idly by and watch genocide in Somalia? Would you have us do what we did in Rwanda...nothing...while hundreds of thousands of people were killed just because of who they were?

You fail to recognize what Obama and many others do: there is a difference between Afghanistan and Iraq. There is also, some believe, a just reason for being in Afghanistan. You disagree. Fine. But there is a genuine argument for it, and many not ordinarily "for" war think that Afghanistan at this time is justified.

You also fail to recognize that we are on the way out of Afghanistan. A plan has been drawn up. It can always change, and only the best plans CAN change.

We are in a final surge of sorts, to force the Afghan government to step up to the plate.

You disagree. Most think it's worth it...to try to prevent the Taliban from taking hold of the Afghan government again. The Taliban are the ones who gave safe haven to AQ and held terrorist camps for the purpose of killing Americans across the globe, including on our own soil. This is real. This is not Iraq. I see it as worth one last try. It's important. It's possible to succeed, although it may not succeed in the end.

If you never fight a war, then you are a sitting duck, waiting to be picked off by those who will gladly take all that you have, and all that you will ever have.

[liberation]

22. LOL War is Peace now...

Some of you need to stop reading 1984 as an instructions manual, sorry to spoil the fun but it was intended to be a dystopian novel.

[mkultra]

21. OBAMA SHOULD INVADE WALLSTREET!!1111

Tehy are the bad!

[Vidar]

35. That would be a war I could support.

[mkultra]

36. I agree. I think we shoud kill all the bankers.

but not the hot tellers. just like account managers and up.

[EmeraldCityGrl]

24. American's are lazy pawns.

They're willing to take whatever the warlords that run this country are willing to dish out.
If we really wanted this stopped it would end. We have no one to blame any longer than
ourselves. So rage against the machine on your computer for all it's worth, it means nothing.

[Goldstein1984]

26. Unfortunately, I think you are correct

Americans are divided, pacified, and afraid.

In some ways, a forum like this can be a method of releasing frustration that might otherwise build until more productive action seems justified.

OR,

A forum like this could be used to discuss issues and create a consensus that leads to productive action.

I've only been here a couple of days. I haven't figured out which it is yet.

That said, war is only justified for defense. I don't believe Afghanistan is justified. Nor was Iraq.

I look at how much the United States spends on "defense"--as much as the rest of the world combined--and it just doesn't make sense to me.

I believe we are going to lose in Afghanistan. I hope we do. We need our agenda and our hubris kicked out of us. Once humbled, maybe we'll become a little more introspective. Probably not, but maybe.

[EmeraldCityGrl]

27. A warm welcome to you.

I hope we lose as well and for the same reasons. We lost the Vietnam war and that did nothing to humble us.
Who would have believed decades later we would make the same outrageous attempt and with a volunteer
force no less.

[autorank]

25. Great post k*r But didn't you get the memo?

They do not give a damn about the citizens of this country.

We are nothing to them.

btw, on edit: Those are fine words by Eisenhower. Unfortunately, when he could do something about it, he failed. He allowed McCarthyism to go on without much complaint. He allowed all sorts of overseas coups under his leadership. He allowed the very buildup that he warns against. He just felt guilty for giving the people such a total screwing. I think this was a weasel worded way out of some guilt rather than a real warning.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

28. the military-industrial complex.

Eisenhower saw the horrors of war first hand, as Supreme Allied Commander in World War II.

[seemunkee]

34. Every gun that is made, every warship launched,

every rocket fired, signifies in the final sense a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed.

[lildreamer316]

32. KICK, wish I could rec.

Truer words were never written.

[mkultra]

37. yup, once a dollar is spent, its no longer usable.

i hate money.