Michael Moore message to Obama: 'Take off your pink tutu'

[Cali_Democrat]

Dupe:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x9551162

[DesertFlower]

1. i agree with michael moore.

my husband who voted for obama just said "he's a wuss -- he's going to do whatever gets him re-elected". we were talking about the tax cuts and him caving.

[Name removed]

2. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[RamboLiberal]

3. Oh geeze - there was a big GD thread about the use of "Pink Tutu"

Guess Michael Moore is under the DU bus with Jon Stewart and quite a few others.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=9553250

[davidinalameda]

7. Moore shouldn't have been called out for using the phrase?

[polichick]

8. Call him out if ya want, but it's a powerful - and colorful - metaphor. nt

[davidinalameda]

13. it's homophobic and sexist

but those things don't seem to matter on here too much

[polichick]

14. I can see how you could take it that way, but I don't think that's how MM meant it...

He was talking about boxing instead of dancing, needing boxing gloves for this particular game.

[davidinalameda]

21. it doesn't matter what he meant

what he said was still homophobic and sexist

[polichick]

22. So had he said, "Take off that football helmet, and put on your thinking cap" ...

...would that be sexist and heterophobic?

[davidinalameda]

24. he didn't did he

it's just a sad day when someone on a message board that claims to be progressive defends comments like this

[polichick]

25. Is that a yes or a no? nt

[davidinalameda]

29. does it matter

or are you just trying to play gotcha with me

[polichick]

57. Simple question - obviously you'd rather whine then think it through. nt

[snagglepuss]

28. Why are you getting all "huffy"?

Just asking.

[davidinalameda]

31. because I'm sick of people on DU

who are either stupid or bigoted that defend crap like this

do you fall into either one of those categories?

[snagglepuss]

35. Give your outrage a rest. There is nothing wrong with the tutu remark.

Might I recommend Jane Austen's admonition not to take offense when none is intended.

[ampad]

37. That is your opinion

Not to be mistaken as a fact. "Might I recommend Jane Austen's admonition not to take offense when none is intended. " Yea you need to blast that all over GD. I wonder how many times you found something to be "outraged" about that was completely false or taken out of context? I wonder

[dsc]

39. so if he had said that Obama needs to put the watermelon down and get back to work

and said I just meant he is eating too much, that would be OK.

[polmaven]

43. +++++++++

Very good comparison.

[karynnj]

51. Does anyone box wearing a tutu - of any color?

[polichick]

59. 'Course not - that's why he said to get out the boxing gloves...

...the issues don't call for dancing.

[RamboLiberal]

63. I've seen some boxing trunks that nearly look like tutus n/t

[polichick]

64. Come to think of it, some of them shimmer too! nt

[karynnj]

50. It is powerful because of the underlying homophobic/emasculating themes

That is why it is offensive and beyond obnoxious. It is also used JUST against people on our side. It also plays in the Republican tendency to have obnoxious undercurrent gay accusations against most democrats.

[polichick]

58. I'd ask you the same question I asked in #31

[karynnj]

68. My answer is that though the grammar is a similar structure, one has a sexist element the other

doesn't. (The best you can do is say it is anti football player suggesting you can't think when wearing a helmet - but that is far fetched.) Note that a danseur ( or ballerino ) would not wear tutu, while a male football player does wear a helmet.

Do you remember the awful photoshops that cluttered DU mostly in 2005? Ask yourself if any of the men depicted would have chosen - even for halloween to dress that way. If you agree with the idea that the person was not fighting enough would you be comfortable holding a sign with that image in front of the person?

[struggle4progress]

4. We can win by analysis and appropriate activism: but mere name-calling will lose

Plus -- maybe folk, who don't have the athletic ability to do brilliant yogic-quality dancework in toe-shoes, shouldn't be sneering "pink tutu" as if it meant "weak"

[polichick]

5. Colorful way to put it. nt

[stray cat]

6. He sounds like the tea party with their man up level of discourse

[impik]

9. Nice. Gotta love the professional left

[ampad]

12. Well he has to get his attention

Just like the rest of them. Gotta say something outlandish and childish in order to get the spotlight. He sure cannot have Ed Shultz and Cenk getting all the attention. Maybe next time he will compare the president to a baby. That will show Obama.

[polichick]

18. I only wish they COULD get his attention - he and the country would...

...be in a better place. He listens to his enemies and ignores those who want him to succeed.

[firedupdem]

26. +1 yup...he makes more money when republicans are in power..n/t

[impik]

34. Maybe he can call him "that one", or say something about his black ass

I mean, by now, what's the difference.

[ampad]

38. Oh I say wait for it

When you reach the level of the tea party anything is bound to happen. I predict that someone on the professional left is gonna goof up on air. Come out with what they call a "Freudian slip" Only thing is that it will not be a slip. Their apologist will be running around like chickens with their heads cut off in order to explain what they really meant. I say wait for it because it will eventually come. Hell I would say this was it but it is obvious we have to go even lower than this. Look at the explanations on this thread. Had this been said about any other male politician DU would be in an uproar. Replace Obama with Kuchinich, oh hell no. Imagine if Moore said that Kuchinich needed to grow a pair or take off the pink tutu which is why he is always gettign stomped in the primaries. You would have to close DU down for a couple of days and Moore would have to walk around with a bullet proof vest. But this is about Obama so that is ok.

[ampad]

10. Maybe he should of researched before using that phrase

I am willing to bet that most professional ballet dancers are as strong as many professional athletes.

[polichick]

11. self-delete

[sally cat]

15. Maybe he's got a book or documentary coming out.

[budkin]

16. Perfectly fitting... this cowardly shit has to end

[davidinalameda]

32. so someone in a pink tutu is a coward?

[Doctor_J]

17. Jesus christ - that whole thread turned into a pissing contest about metaphors

the entire content was obliterated by whining.

[davidinalameda]

41. sorry about whining

us uppity faggots don't have anything better to do

[ampad]

44. Yup you uppity gay folk

Gotta stop whining about those homophobic remarks. That is criticism at work baby get used to it and man up! don't you know that being a manly man is in these days???? You gotta sacrifice a bit of dignity in the name of criticism. That is just how it works these days. Power to the manly man, thou shalt now wear the dreaded pink tutu. :sarcasm:

[Doctor_J]

47. Not at all - congrats

you took a thread that was supposed to be about the prez and his admin fighting back against the teabagger onslaught, and completely hijacked it, turning it into a 200-post flame war about the language used by a devout liberal fighter.

I assume that was your intent, so good on you. This one is turning out the same way.

[davidinalameda]

67. so we're supposed to ignore the language he used

because he's a "devout liberal fighter"?

no one gets a free pass

[karynnj]

49. Because it is a BAD USELESS obnoxious metaphor

[Doctor_J]

52. It is also very recognizable to those who are trying

to get the president to find some intestinal fortitude and fight back, kicking if need be, instead of tip-toeing around in slippers. Did you really need to completely take over two threads?

[karynnj]

55. I did not "take over" even one thread

not to mention, I don't think it is a case of lacking "intestinal fortitude". I suspect it was that he did not think the way you might of approved of had as good a chance of working.

[Kaleva]

19. Any mention of the Olive Garden, fried chicken & pink tutus turns DU into a free for all

[krawhitham]

20. after Michael puts down the doughnut

[JamesA1102]

23. Sexist remark

and either Moore doesn't know how our government works or is purposely misrepresenting how it does in order to bash the president.

[firedupdem]

27. I thought this term was a homophobic no no here? I guess it's okay

if it's used to criticize the president.

[RamboLiberal]

30. I never thought of pink tutu being homophobic

Hell couldn't it just as well reference Cheech & Chong Up in Smoke - Cheech in a Pink Tutu

http://www.spike.com/video/up-in-smoke-trailer/2972898

[karynnj]

48. Rampant posts using this in 2005 referenced a 2008 movie?

Whenever it has been used, what would be the first 5 adjectives that come to mind that you think they are attributing to the politician mocked.

Cheese CHOSE to wear a pink tutu - which is fine. However, in the dominant culture of the US, a man photoshopped wearing a pink tutu is being smeared as less than masculine.

[RamboLiberal]

60. Isn't that a 1978 movie?

Which makes it's reference relevant? I imagine Michael Moore saw it.

[karynnj]

69. I never followed them and saw the date on your clip - and didn't realize that

it referred to a very short version.

It still makes no sense that he would be referring to that movie - as it has nothing to do with anything. Particularly when there was a very prominent use of that term all over the left blogospere used in the extact same context as he did his. Occam's razor, which suggests the most likely explanation is the simplest - is that he used it just as many did here in 2005 - and over time most people stopped doing it.

[ampad]

36. But of course

And some here are falling all over themselves to defend it. That should show you were the level of discourse is coming from. It should also show you that this has gotten to the point that it no longer about policy. Yea it is homophobic and sexist. As someone stated about he could of criticized the president without getting down like that. Oh but he had to, in order to get the attention he was looking for. Childish, outlandish, homophobic and sexist, wrapped up in one.

[Cobalt-60]

33. Agreed: I demand Obama engage the Fascists!

We're about to lose the country to fascists.
I've defended the President for two years. And enough is enough.
I need to see some ardor. Caving to the Republicans turns my
stomach. It's actually more nauseating than Bush*.
Self Respect demands Maximum Payback.
The republican party deserves no less than oblivion for their
behavior since the fascist coup of 2000 AD.
Other prominent Democrats have been all too helpful to the fascists.
That needs to stop too. Now.

[karynnj]

40. Pink tutu terminology needs to go - it is disgusting

The fact is that Michael Moore is to our party what the extreme tea party is to the Republicans. Even when I agree with Moore, I realize that he often is too offensive to really help us win anything.

[TheKentuckian]

42. If you have any thought that Moore is as extreme as even the most "moderate" teabagger

then you are nuts.

What are these "extremist" positions???

Fucking crazy talk from the "sensible centrist" brigade in an effort to make the Democratic party more right wing.

[karynnj]

45. You are misinterpreting what I am saying

Nor am I for making the Democratic party more centrist. The two candidates I was most inspired by from the time I could vote were Kerry and McGovern.

The fact is that the way that Moore states his positions is designed to make news and controversy. He wants to be antagonistic. Here, his comment would be seen as sexist or homophobic if a right winger were to use "pink tutu" to describe a Democrat. Yes, I KNOW that it is the left that spent much of - I think - 2005 posting photoshops and using the term.

It is hard when you are in a progressive bubble to see how things look outside of it. In 2004, I thought Moore was interesting and generally agreed with him and did not understand why he was toxic. Not until a book group that I then belonged to decided to all (independently) see F911 and then discuss it. The entire group could be described as Democratic, liberal and Jewish - as we informally formed at the reconstructionist synagogue we attended. Here you have a group - all of whom were already voting for Kerry. I think all of us were against the invasion of Iraq before it happened - I know most were. There was no one with a positive opinion of Bush.

So, this is a group - more likely than the average population to like the film. The reaction - pretty negative, though some segments like those that spoke of where an how recruiting was done and the impact on Iraq were seen as excellent and powerful. Where did the overall negative view come from? It was the flippant connect the dots segment.

The problem is that while most here see that and see a concise account of the Bush Criminal Family, others didn't. What they saw were huge unsupported leaps in logic that seemed to over reach everything they knew. It did not make the case and for many it likely might have made them reject those attacks on Bush - and later equate valid proven criticisms of what Bush did and was doing.

As it was, this was seen mostly by the already converted - meaning it reached very few people who needed to be won. However, many heard it or saw bits of it via the news. It was among the reasons that people were split on which side had the more negative or nastiest campaign - even though Kerry himself ran a high road campaign.

[polichick]

61. That's the truth! nt

[Doctor_J]

46. You self-contradicted in this banal statement

The fact is that Michael Moore is to our party what the extreme tea party is to the Republicans. Even when I agree with Moore, I realize that he often is too offensive to really help us win anything.

If you can remember back to two weeks ago, the teabaggers helped the repukes win. a lot. we are desperately in need of some outspoken liberalism

[karynnj]

54. I don't believe the tea baggers did help the republicans - they lost them 3 Senate seats that

were theirs for the taking and made the NY Governor's race more a cakewalk than it already was.

The fact is that the economy is awful and the party in power gets blamed. In addition, in case you didn't notice a huge portion of the mass media has been distorting everything for over a year - speaking Republican talking points. That background would cause the House to change as it did. However, it should be noted that we won more seats in 2008 (257) than they will have this year a max of 246 if they get all the ones wikipedia still lists as undecided).

[Doctor_J]

70. They also won seats in FL, WI, IL, IN

and a number of House seats. Even the fucking birthers now have some reps. And it will get worse until we wake up and do something about these psychos.

[GSLevel9]

53. it's a compelling argument. nt

[Beacool]

56. Pink tutu?

Naaahh, it's evident Moore has never danced in his life. Ballet is one of the toughest forms of physical activity one can engage in, it's not for wimps. Hours of practice where every muscle in your body aches and your toes are bleeding. Rahm, a former ballet dancer, is proof of how tough a dancer has to be. It's a very tough business.

;)

[RamboLiberal]

62. Googling pink tutu seems mainstream to me

Lots of pink tutus for little girls. Lots of pink tutus as halloween costumes.

I really don't think it was that huge a slur by Michal Moore. Too bad all the Tea Partiers & Repukes didn't say pink tutu, been enough outrage here to defeat them.

I think it may be more a sexist term than a homophobic. And I doubt if Michael Moore even thought as he said it it was homophobic. I'd love to hear his take on the outrage here.

I think DU needs a bigger bus!

[cottonseed]

65. Ha ha! Obama's a gay little girl.

Good one Mike....

[Scurrilous]

66. @#$% Michael Moore. n/t