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mkultra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 08:04 PM
Original message
Obama's GBLT accomplishments
Reversed an inexcusable US position by signing the UN Declaration on Sexual Orientation and Gender Identity

Endorsed the Baldwin-Lieberman bill, The Domestic Partnership Benefits and Obligations Act of 2009, to provide full partnership benefits to federal employees

Signed the Ryan White HIV/AIDS Treatment Extension Act

Lifted the HIV Entry Ban effective January 2010

Awarded the Presidential Medal of Freedom to Harvey Milk and Billie Jean King

Appointed the first transgender DNC member in history

Issued diplomatic passports, and provided other benefits, to the partners of same-sex foreign service employees

Conceived a National Resource Center for Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual and Transgender Elders -- the nation's first ever -- funded by a three-year HHS grant to SAGE

Testified in favor of ENDA, the first time any official of any administration has testified in the Senate on ENDA

Signed the Matthew Shepard and James Byrd, Jr. Hate Crimes Prevention Act, which expanded existing United States federal hate crime law to include crimes motivated by a victims actual or perceived gender, sexual orientation, gender identity, or disability -- the first positive federal LGBT legislation in the nation's history

Hired and appointed a record number of qualified LGBT Americans, including more than 10 Senate-confirmed appointments

Sworn in Ambassador David Huebner

Named open transgender appointees (the first President ever to do so)

Banned job discrimination based on gender identity throughout the Federal government (the nation's largest employer)

Dispatched the Secretary of Defense and the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff to call on the Senate to repeal Don't Ask / Don't Tell, in the meantime dialing back on discharges

Launched a website to gather public comment on first-ever federal LGBT housing discrimination study

Appointed long-time equality champion Chai Feldblum one of the four Commissioners of the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission

Eliminated the discriminatory Census Bureau policy that kept gay relationships from being counted, encouraging couples who consider themselves married to file that way, even if their state of residence does not yet permit legal marriage

Produced U.S. Census Bureau PSAs featuring gay, lesbian, and transgender spokespersons.

Instructed HHS to require any hospital receiving Medicare or Medicaid funds (virtually all hospitals) to allow LGBT visitation rights.





ALL actual items of accomplishment. Which ones do you want to do without? The outrage doesn't match the facts.
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ClarkUSA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 08:09 PM
Response to Original message
1. President Obama is a friend to the LGBT community while President Clinton passed DADT & DOMA...
Edited on Fri Oct-22-10 08:24 PM by ClarkUSA
... and Hillary, like President Obama, opposes gay marriage.


Thanks for the facts.

Reversed an inexcusable US position by signing the UN Declaration on Sexual Orientation and Gender Identity

Endorsed the Baldwin-Lieberman bill, The Domestic Partnership Benefits and Obligations Act of 2009, to provide full partnership benefits to federal employees

Signed the Ryan White HIV/AIDS Treatment Extension Act

Lifted the HIV Entry Ban effective January 2010

Awarded the Presidential Medal of Freedom to Harvey Milk and Billie Jean King

Appointed the first transgender DNC member in history

Issued diplomatic passports, and provided other benefits, to the partners of same-sex foreign service employees

Conceived a National Resource Center for Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual and Transgender Elders -- the nation's first ever -- funded by a three-year HHS grant to SAGE

Testified in favor of ENDA, the first time any official of any administration has testified in the Senate on ENDA

Signed the Matthew Shepard and James Byrd, Jr. Hate Crimes Prevention Act, which expanded existing United States federal hate crime law to include crimes motivated by a victims actual or perceived gender, sexual orientation, gender identity, or disability -- the first positive federal LGBT legislation in the nation's history

Hired and appointed a record number of qualified LGBT Americans, including more than 10 Senate-confirmed appointments

Sworn in Ambassador David Huebner

Named open transgender appointees (the first President ever to do so)

Banned job discrimination based on gender identity throughout the Federal government (the nation's largest employer)

Dispatched the Secretary of Defense and the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff to call on the Senate to repeal Don't Ask / Don't Tell, in the meantime dialing back on discharges

Launched a website to gather public comment on first-ever federal LGBT housing discrimination study

Appointed long-time equality champion Chai Feldblum one of the four Commissioners of the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission

Eliminated the discriminatory Census Bureau policy that kept gay relationships from being counted, encouraging couples who consider themselves married to file that way, even if their state of residence does not yet permit legal marriage

Produced U.S. Census Bureau PSAs featuring gay, lesbian, and transgender spokespersons.

Instructed HHS to require any hospital receiving Medicare or Medicaid funds (virtually all hospitals) to allow LGBT visitation rights.


ALL actual items of accomplishment. Which ones do you want to do without? The outrage doesn't match the facts.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...


Bookmarked for the future edification of those who never ever will give President Obama any credit for his historic accomplishments during the past two years because they never liked him in the first place (aka. The Perpetually Outraged).
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 08:22 PM
Response to Reply #1
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 09:54 PM
Response to Reply #4
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 10:41 PM
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TheWraith Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 11:03 PM
Response to Reply #1
55. That's kind of an unfair comparison.
The political climate was vastly different and worse it the '90s--DADT and DOMA were certainly not what Bill Clinton would have chosen if he'd been the only one holding the reins, just as Obama would love to scrap both if he didn't have 41 plus idiot senators gnawing on him.
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ClarkUSA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 11:22 PM
Response to Reply #55
65. Just stating a fact. Bill Clinton could've vetoed DOMA and DADT and forced a Senate showdown.
Edited on Sat Oct-23-10 12:06 AM by ClarkUSA
Instead, Bubba caved.

To add insult to injury, Clinton approved of anti-gay ads in 1996 and refused to pull them when confronted by criticism:
http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=cli...

Triangulation all the way, baby.
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Historic NY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 08:11 PM
Response to Original message
2. wow & from postings here you'd never know it.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 08:12 PM
Response to Reply #2
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vaberella Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 08:23 PM
Response to Original message
5. Don't bother. I've been saying that from the beginning.
But on this site he's a homophobe, that's been dragging his feet and done nothing.
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ZombieHorde Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 09:27 PM
Response to Reply #5
28. President Obama openly admits to being a homophobe. nt
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mkultra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 09:57 PM
Response to Reply #28
38. even if that where true
would it matter if got DOMA and DADT repealed? How many people in this world are homophobes huh? ask yourself that? ask yourself this: are you a bigot in any way? do you posses prejudice of any kind? do you let that prejudice cloud your understanding of the need for equality for all people?

your claim doesn't match his actions.
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muffin1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 10:14 PM
Response to Reply #38
47. Ummm...
it would kinda be nice if our President wasn't a homophobe. If he was a racist, would you blow it off so easily?
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mkultra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 11:15 PM
Response to Reply #47
61. i would if he was pushing for civil rights passage
christ! every white person in the 50's and 60's was suspect in terms of some kind of hidden bigotry. I even see it today but people try so i let it go. Bigotry is ingrained in our society, its instinctual and cultural for many. Anyone that overcomes those burdens with intellect has my appreciation.


You do what you want though, in the end, my personal rights are not being oppressed this time so i cant really tell you to what to do. But if it where me, i would damn sure have a better understanding of who my enemies really were.
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ZombieHorde Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 10:28 PM
Response to Reply #38
49. "would it matter if got DOMA and DADT repealed?"
Of course it matters. The POTUS being openly bigoted against a group of people sends a very bad message, especially when contrasted with the recent trend of suicides. Would you really feel the same if a POTUS was openly against interracial marriage?
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davidinalameda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 11:10 PM
Response to Reply #49
56. but he made a video
so that makes all things better, no?

:sarcasm:

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mkultra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 11:20 PM
Response to Reply #56
63. you made my point for me. thanks
people who feel like you do ignore the 300 things he says and does in support but yet focus only on the thimble of negative evidence.
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davidinalameda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-23-10 12:12 AM
Response to Reply #63
123. let's take a look at your list

Reversed an inexcusable US position by signing the UN Declaration on Sexual Orientation and Gender Identity-this is a good start

Endorsed the Baldwin-Lieberman bill, The Domestic Partnership Benefits and Obligations Act of 2009, to provide full partnership benefits to federal employees-he endorsed it? so what-has he made it a legislative priority?

Signed the Ryan White HIV/AIDS Treatment Extension Act-Bush signed the same bill in 2006

Lifted the HIV Entry Ban effective January 2010-this is a very good thing

Awarded the Presidential Medal of Freedom to Harvey Milk and Billie Jean King-he also awarded one to Jack Kemp and Sandra Day O'Connor neither of which are exactly progressive heroes

Appointed the first transgender DNC member in history-actually this was done by Tim Kaine, yet another Obama supporter who opposes same-sex marriage

Issued diplomatic passports, and provided other benefits, to the partners of same-sex foreign service employees-this helps the average gay person how?

Conceived a National Resource Center for Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual and Transgender Elders -- the nation's first ever -- funded by a three-year HHS grant to SAGE-which is a great thing but SAGE only serves New York City; there are an estimated 1 million to 4 million older members of the LGBT community; the grant of $900K averages to less than a dollar for each one; it's a good start but it certainly isn't enough

Testified in favor of ENDA, the first time any official of any administration has testified in the Senate on ENDA-another good thing but what happened to the bill? was it one of Obama's legislative priorities? has it made it out of committee in either house?

Signed the Matthew Shepard and James Byrd, Jr. Hate Crimes Prevention Act, which expanded existing United States federal hate crime law to include crimes motivated by a victims actual or perceived gender, sexual orientation, gender identity, or disability -- the first positive federal LGBT legislation in the nation's history-another good thing

Hired and appointed a record number of qualified LGBT Americans, including more than 10 Senate-confirmed appointments-LGBT Americans? Really? do we know that each of them are qualified?

Sworn in Ambassador David Huebner-who? once again, something that does not affect the average gay person

Named open transgender appointees (the first President ever to do so)-the only one I can find listed on the net came from Raytheon; a military contractor; if she wasn't transgendered, would the administration be publicizing this appointment?

Banned job discrimination based on gender identity throughout the Federal government (the nation's largest employer)-isn't the military part of the federal government?

Dispatched the Secretary of Defense and the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff to call on the Senate to repeal Don't Ask / Don't Tell, in the meantime dialing back on discharges-how's that going? seems to me that the one vote that Reid had on DADT failed

Launched a website to gather public comment on first-ever federal LGBT housing discrimination study-that's good

Appointed long-time equality champion Chai Feldblum one of the four Commissioners of the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission-actually there are 5 members of the EEOC; you need to go back to your source for this cut and paste job and let them know they messed up

Eliminated the discriminatory Census Bureau policy that kept gay relationships from being counted, encouraging couples who consider themselves married to file that way, even if their state of residence does not yet permit legal marriage-good thing

Produced U.S. Census Bureau PSAs featuring gay, lesbian, and transgender spokespersons.-another good thing

Instructed HHS to require any hospital receiving Medicare or Medicaid funds (virtually all hospitals) to allow LGBT visitation rights-this is another good thing that even some conservatives liked

most of these are a good start but he has not been the fierce advocate he promised to be during the campaign

and speaking of the campaign-let's not forget the Donnie McClurkin issue during the campaign and we mustn't forget how the inauguration committee had Rick Warren give the invocation and only invited Bishop Gene Robinson to offer a prayer, which was not part of the broadcasted portions of the ceremony, after GLBT groups protested

also during the campaign, he allegedly refused to be photographed with San Francisco mayor Gavin Newsom. Mayor Newsom is probably best known for allowing gay marriages to proceed in the city back in 2004.

Mayor Newsom says this is true. I have more reason to believe him than anyone associated with the Obama camp.

anyway, the things that he's done like sign the Hate Crimes bill is nothing more than should be expected of ANY Democratic president

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mkultra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-23-10 12:25 AM
Response to Reply #123
134. what i find interesting about this line of reasoning
is that actual material accomplishments are disregarded or devalued while non material accomplishments are completely ignored. This occurs while non material negatives are heralded on high as signs of his true soul. Seems irrational.
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davidinalameda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-23-10 12:32 AM
Response to Reply #134
141. can you translate that into English
what do you consider to be "material accomplishments" and what do you consider to be non-material accomplishments

and what are non-material negatives

and by the way-where did you cut and paste this lovely little list from

I'm always curious about source material for stuff like this



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mkultra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-23-10 01:07 AM
Response to Reply #141
160. sure,
i consider material to be actual legal changes that expand or contract rights. non material would be just speeches or comments and events that do not change law but simply change awareness or perception.
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mkultra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 11:18 PM
Response to Reply #49
62. lol, he has said hundreds of things in support of GBLT equal rights
That is the message he is really sending. do you honestly think the people that need to hear this message ignore 100 things in support and still come to your extreme conclusion? i think not.
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TriMera Donating Member (885 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 11:27 PM
Response to Reply #62
67. Is it 100 or 300? I only counted 20 in your
post and you listed 1 of those twice. Now you see the problem? It's really hard to count all those disjointed little crumbs, isn't it?
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mkultra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 11:55 PM
Response to Reply #67
112. no matter how many, they add up to more than your one imaginary crumb
don't they. You know inside that if you want to drag this into a war of reference regarding times when Obama has spoken in support of GBLT rights vs times when he has spoke against them, i will win hands down.
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Number23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 11:48 PM
Response to Reply #28
105. You have simply GOT to post a link to the President "openly admitting" to being a homophobe.
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mkultra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 11:56 PM
Response to Reply #105
113. i would certainly be interested in seeing that myself.
im sure they are playing seven degrees of that statement though.
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Hekate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-23-10 12:12 AM
Response to Reply #113
122. It's just so much more satisfying to keep repeating the meme, however
... over and over and over...

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ZombieHorde Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-23-10 01:38 AM
Response to Reply #105
183. Really? You never heard candidate Obama speak about gay marriage?
http://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-a&rls=org.m...

I don't know which sources you enjoy, so here, take your pick. Obama was clear in his opposition to gay marriage, which is clearly a homophobic stance.
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vaberella Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-23-10 12:41 AM
Response to Reply #28
146. He does not and is not a homophobe. n/t
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ZombieHorde Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-23-10 01:30 AM
Response to Reply #146
179. He says he is against gay marriage because his god frowns upon it.
Does that not seem like a homophobic stance to you?
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Spazito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 08:31 PM
Response to Original message
6. "The outrage doesn't match the facts."
Exactly! Thanks for posting this, it needs to be repeated time and time again to counter the misinformation that is continuously being published, posted, etc.

Recommended.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 08:47 PM
Response to Original message
7. Thanks mkultra~ So glad we have President Obama
in the White House!
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 11:11 PM
Response to Reply #7
58. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
mkultra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 11:22 PM
Response to Reply #58
64. More than ever before is not crumbs
the most accomplishments to date are something to be thankful off. Only willful ignorance could allow anyone to ignore the facts.
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Unvanguard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 08:48 PM
Response to Original message
8. That is all good. But it is not good enough. n/t
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vaberella Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 08:53 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. No one ever said it was. And the President hasn't said he'd stop either.
Hence the reason he's working to try to repeal DADT and DOMA. However, on this site...people don't even give him credit for what he has done. I'm tired of the people saying that "he hasn't done anything" <---He's done something and several somethings at that. And to be called a homophobe in light of these things he's done is a bit over the top and ridiculous.
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SeattleGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 08:55 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. Absolutely, vaberella!
He hasn't stopped working for equal rights for all, and those who say he has, or worse, who say he hasn't done anything, are being quite dishonest.

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Unvanguard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 09:07 PM
Response to Reply #9
13. Obama is not working to repeal DOMA.
And his work to repeal DADT has been rather lackluster, a "go-slow", cautious approach that has backfired and may well fail to deliver. Any work of his to pass ENDA has been invisible.

Let's not pretend that you don't know what criticisms of Obama on LGBT issues are about. And please don't point to a laundry list of good things he's done as if that somehow excused the failures.
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jaxx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 09:11 PM
Response to Reply #13
18. Failure is when something was tried and lost and put away in the box.
That hasn't happened. Instead it has been a slow, steady progress. This makes some mad, it makes others anticipate more to come.

Failure it isn't.
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Unvanguard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 09:17 PM
Response to Reply #18
21. It is a failure that ENDA has not passed.
It will be a failure if DADT repeal fails to get through the Senate. Neither of those are rectifiable once the Republicans take the House (and a firm filibuster blockade in the Senate), and the time until we have Democratic majorities again may be quite a while.
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SeattleGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 09:18 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. Well, I hope you are planning on voting in this election, and
are encouraging your friends to vote too, so that the Republicans don't take back power.
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Unvanguard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 09:29 PM
Response to Reply #22
29. I prefer insufficient progress to active regress.
Edited on Fri Oct-22-10 09:30 PM by Unvanguard
I will vote (and encourage my friends to vote) accordingly.
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SeattleGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 09:33 PM
Response to Reply #29
32. Excellent!
One of my favorite things to do is to encourage people to vote!
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jaxx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 09:20 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. The failure hasn't taken it off the table.
<snip> ENDA has been introduced in every Congress, except the 109th, since 1994, albeit without gender identity protections, but gained its best chance at passing after the Democratic Party broke twelve years of Republican Congressional rule in the 2006 midterm elections. However, some sponsors believed that even with a Democratic majority, ENDA did not have enough votes to pass the House of Representatives with transgender inclusion, and dropped it from the bill, which passed and subsequently died in the Senate. LGBT advocacy organizations were divided over support of the changed bill.

In 2009, on the heels of the 2008 elections that strengthened the Democratic majority, and after the debacle of the 2007 ENDA divisions, only a transgender-inclusive ENDA has been introduced by House representative Barney Frank. President Barack Obama supports the bill's passage; former President George W. Bush, Obama's immediate predecessor, threatened to veto the measure.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Employment_Non-Discriminat...
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Unvanguard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 09:31 PM
Response to Reply #23
30. I'm not sure what your point is.
Edited on Fri Oct-22-10 09:31 PM by Unvanguard
ENDA has no serious prospect in the lame-duck session, and no prospect whatsoever if the Republicans control either house of Congress. Hence, it is a failure: it is not going to pass until 2013 at the earliest, and then only if the Democrats do very well in 2012. It is for all practical purposes off the table for Obama's first term.
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jaxx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 09:37 PM
Response to Reply #30
33. Your definition of failure isn't mine.
Don't give up so easily. When the 'failure' is based on 'if the republicans' you are accepting what hasn't happened as reality. I don't think the President has given up.
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SeattleGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 09:13 PM
Response to Reply #13
19. And please don't ignore what he HAS done, just so
the anger can continue unchecked.

Saying he has done many things in this area is not wrong, because those things are facts.

And yes, it is also a fact that more needs to be done.

I can acknowledge both things.

Can you?



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Unvanguard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 09:23 PM
Response to Reply #19
25. I don't ignore what Obama has done.
You will never see me suggest anywhere that Obama has done nothing for LGBT rights. I have defended him on this and other issues repeatedly on DU.

But it is tiresome to hear the suggestion that, because Obama has done some good things, somehow... what? We are not supposed to care that gay soldiers are still being discharged, that there remain no nationwide anti-discrimination laws protecting LGBT people, that same-sex couples are still deprived of all rights under federal law? It is no answer to critiques of Obama, even outrage against Obama, on any of those things to merely point out that his record is not entirely bad. "Better than nothing" doesn't cut it, especially not when the status quo is so manifestly unjust.
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SeattleGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 09:32 PM
Response to Reply #25
31. I acknowledge that, and apologize for unfairly characterizing
you. And just so you know, I personally have never said that we should stop caring about the abuses that continue while things are still being worked out.

And I do agree with the status quo is manifestly unjust. I have never in my life understood why some groups of people are treated as "less than" others.

As to pointing out Obama's record, I think one of the main reasons that is done is because there are some people on DU who have said that he has done nothing, which drives me nuts when it's clear he HAS done many things. And yes, I will say again that more needs to be done, absolutely. And he should not rest on what he's done already, but frankly, I don't think he has.

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mkultra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 09:22 PM
Response to Reply #13
24. Obama is working to repeal BOTH of clintons missteps
DADT and DOMA. and has called openly for both to be repealed in congress and has said several times that he supports and will sign the repeals.
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Unvanguard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 09:25 PM
Response to Reply #24
26. How has Obama worked to repeal DOMA?
You are right that he has said he would sign a repeal, but that is compliance with a repeal effort, not sponsorship of one. What has he done?
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mkultra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 09:54 PM
Response to Reply #26
36. exactly how a POTUS can..
He called for the introduction of H.R. 3567 which was introduced by Nadler with 90 co-sponsors.
Nadler himself said:

"The introduction of the Respect for Marriage Act responds directly to a call from President Obama for congressional action on the issue. As the president recently confirmed: 'I stand by my long-standing commitment to work with Congress to repeal the so-called Defense of Marriage Act. It's discriminatory, it interferes with states' rights, and it's time we overturned it,'" the statement said.

As far as the DOJ and its duplcitity:
Justice Department lawyer Scott Simpson filed a brief Aug 17 declaring "With respects to the merits, this Administration does not support DOMA as a matter of policy, believes that it is discriminatory, and supports its repeal."


as far as DADT, he dispatched the Secretary of Defense and the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff to call on the Senate to repeal DADT while at the same time dialing back on discharges.
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Unvanguard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 10:01 PM
Response to Reply #36
39. Jerry Nadler introducing the Respect for Marriage Act is hardly an accomplishment of Obama's.
His words are nice, but it is plain that DOMA repeal is nowhere near the Congressional agenda: there has never been, to my knowledge, any discussion of bringing the Respect for Marriage Act to a vote. Most of the fault for this probably lies in Congress, which would probably fail to pass a DOMA repeal at the moment, but it seems to me misleading to suggest that Obama has somehow been active in trying to secure a repeal of DOMA. He hasn't been.

It's true that Obama brought the Pentagon in line with his DADT repeal plan. The problem is that, because he has been so keen to maintain his compromise with them, we have very nearly run out of time--and he has refused to take any of the steps that might let him have a way out, like refusing to appeal the court ruling or issuing a stop-loss order.
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mkultra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 11:11 PM
Response to Reply #39
57. Its not misleading, its the extents of his power
and he excerised it. His only ability is to as congress for bills, sign them, and speak about those needs. He does ALL of those things.
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vaberella Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-23-10 12:44 AM
Response to Reply #13
147. Obviously you have not been paying attention.
At the same time he brought attention to DADT he has also brought attention to DOMA. Congress and the media unfortunately settled on one rather than the other. And if you look through some of the statements listed in the OP's post you'll recognize things that were indirectly prohibited by DOMA---and even Obama himself had said he had Holder and the DOJ team work to find ways around DOMA in order to provide these benefits but that ultimately he wants to end DOMA. You've obviously not been on top of the news.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7F_BODrAwSE
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Unvanguard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-23-10 12:55 AM
Response to Reply #147
154. I'm aware that he extended federal benefits for LGBT federal employees.
Edited on Sat Oct-23-10 12:57 AM by Unvanguard
Great. My question was about DOMA repeal. Your reply does not answer my question. (You are aware, for instance, that there is presently no Senate equivalent to the Respect for Marriage Act? Hardly a sign of an active repeal effort.)

It is a good thing for Obama to extend federal benefits, but it is also costless for him, and like most costless things it does not go anywhere near far enough when it comes to the inequities lesbian, gay, and bisexual federal employees face.

Thanks for posting that speech. Of course, I watched it live (yes, inattentive little me), so I have heard it already. It's always nice when the President voices yet again his abstract support for a repeal of the Defense of Marriage Act (note how he says that he will end DADT, and makes no such claim about DOMA.) But a willingness to sign a bill that does not exist in one house of Congress and is not even close to moving for a vote in the other is hardly a commitment to repeal likely to bring about results.
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mkultra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 09:01 PM
Response to Reply #8
12. better than ever is the best we have ever had it.
Edited on Fri Oct-22-10 09:02 PM by mkultra
it proves that there is work being done and that his words have action behind them. It means there is more to come and that it gets better.
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Unvanguard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 09:10 PM
Response to Reply #12
16. It's nice that Obama's record is better than the absolutely terrible record of everyone else.
It would be even nicer if it were something closer to "good."
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mkultra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 09:15 PM
Response to Reply #16
20. everything listed is good
i cant believe you think any of those things are petty.
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Unvanguard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 09:26 PM
Response to Reply #20
27. My comment was about Obama's record, not about any of the above items.
My position remains the same as it was in my first post in this thread: they are good, but they are not enough.
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mkultra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 11:28 PM
Response to Reply #27
68. your comments require that you IGNORE the items above
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Unvanguard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 11:31 PM
Response to Reply #68
72. Um, no. Not even remotely.
They just require that I expect more--and rightfully so.

Some of us do not buy into the silly notion that we should just shut up and be content with something, just as long as it's more than nothing. No: not when it is so very far from enough.
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mkultra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 11:41 PM
Response to Reply #72
92. for you to claim no or slow progress has been made DOES require
you to ignore those items. You can still claim that more is needed. I would hope everyone here would agree with that. But with more accomplishments more quickly than any president in history, you claims become false.
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Unvanguard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 11:48 PM
Response to Reply #92
103. I have never claimed that "no" progress has been made.
"Slow" progress is plainly true when you consider that the prospects of DADT repeal are questionable, ENDA (which, by the way, is itself only an incremental measure) is not going to get passed any time soon, DOMA remains on the books, the domestic partnership law for federal employees you mention in your OP has gotten nowhere, the Student Non-Discrimination Act has gotten nowhere, the Uniting American Families Act has gotten nowhere (and will probably be omitted from immigration reform--if that ever happens--due to right-wing religious opposition), and so on and so on.

Next to this, things like appointing gays and lesbians to positions in the federal government, while certainly good and even important, are hardly much of a remedy. Your entire thread presupposes, ludicrously, that there is no room to be outraged at Obama because of the things on the list, as if there were no other important, vital things that have failed to get done, about which criticism might be quite appropriate.
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mkultra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-23-10 12:22 AM
Response to Reply #103
130. actually, my op presupposes that he has done everything a pres can do
and more. Like i said, we can all agree more needs to be done. But the big starts must come from congress. These are things that obama has openly supported and asked for. My op presupposes that the outrage directed at Obama is out of proportion with the facts. perhaps inappropriately placed, but inappropriate to be sure.
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Unvanguard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-23-10 12:46 AM
Response to Reply #130
148. That's not even remotely what your OP suggests.
You don't SAY "Given the political circumstances, Obama has done as best he can on DADT, ENDA, DOMA, etc." You don't argue for this, you don't present evidence for it, you don't mention those issues at all.

That's the problem, and that's why your argument is condescending. Rather than engage on the actual territory of the Obama critics, rather than argue that the specific criticisms they make are wrong, your citing of this list merely suggests, "Be quiet, stop whining, you've gotten your due."

It has become increasingly hard to maintain the notion that President Obama is any kind of "fierce advocate" for LGBT rights, when faced with the realities of his continual hesitations and weakness on DADT, his inattention to ENDA or DOMA repeal (or rollback--e.g. through domestic partner benefits for federal employees--which would have better Congressional prospects), his neglect of LGBT-protective provisions in the health care bill, his failure to make any kind of strong statement about Amendment 1 in Maine, his refusal to support same-sex marriage (at least publicly), his unwillingness to pursue alternatives to a standard legal defense of discriminatory laws in the courts, the general inability of his administration to communicate well with gay people beyond some establishment figures in Congress and the Human Rights Campaign (a phenomenon exemplified by Valerie Jarrett), Rick Warren and his characterization of the LGBT rights debate in the context of defending his choice, and so on. Now, maybe you take issue with some of these criticisms: fine. Then respond to them specifically, without insulting your opponents or pretending that their concerns are mindless Obama-hatred or fact-empty whining. Certainly don't wholly ignore these criticisms, and by so doing suggest that somehow people concerned about the fact that soldiers are still being discharged for their sexual orientation are merely ignorant of all the great things Obama has done for LGBT people.
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mkultra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-23-10 01:05 AM
Response to Reply #148
159. i certainly dont need to address the individual complaints
they have all been addressed repeatedly and the landing of everyone of those discussions is that obama hasn't worked or done anything. This op is a direct proof that not only has he worked and accomplished, but that he has even worked harder and accomplished more than any president in history.

If you wish to focus on the the few occasions in which he has spoken in a way that you feel is inappropriate or has invited some less than savory character, then you MUST also accept the hundreds of occasions in which he has spoke in support or held events that support the cause.

Again, i have no requirement to address these issues directly again to make my point. I backed my position with cold facts. even your individual issues seem pretty much like vague generalizations rather than direct accusations. Show me some material facts in which he has brought material harm and we will talk. Honestly, the only thing i think you can even mention is the actions of the DOJ which have also been refuted by facts repeatedly and again, it always comes down to vague generalizations.
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Unvanguard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-23-10 01:12 AM
Original message
Duplicate. n/t
Edited on Sat Oct-23-10 01:13 AM by Unvanguard
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Unvanguard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-23-10 01:12 AM
Response to Reply #159
165. Then don't bother participating in this discussion.
Really. If you feel the specific criticisms people have made of Obama on LGBT issues have been so thoroughly refuted that there is no need to contribute any more refutations, then why bother?

Certainly don't post something like your OP, which doesn't even bother to gesture at why people are disappointed in Obama's record on LGBT issues--instead simply dismissing it as outrage borne out of ignorance of your list.
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mkultra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-23-10 01:17 AM
Response to Reply #165
171. Its is my op and my discussion
If YOU dont like the terms, you are free to go elsewhere and start your own discussion based on issues you think are pertinent.
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Unvanguard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-23-10 01:22 AM
Response to Reply #171
175. I meant on DU, not in this thread specifically.
And obviously you are free to post where and whatever you like, within the limits of DU rules. I just think it is disrespectful for you to say, "I'm not going to bother addressing your actual complaints because they've been thoroughly refuted, so instead I'll suggest that you're just ignorant and post a list of things that have nothing to do with why you're angry at Obama."
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mkultra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-23-10 01:30 AM
Response to Reply #175
180. i like how you quoted that
as if i actually said that. i think that is telling. The list of Obama's accomplishments are totally and completely pertinent to the wider discussion of Obama's performance on GBLT issues. I have addressed and spoken to these "individual issues" you refer to elsewhere when the discussion merits but, again, am under no obligation to make your case for you.
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Unvanguard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-23-10 01:37 AM
Response to Reply #180
182. I don't think my post could be read to literally suggest that you said that.
And that was (obviously) not the intent.

The list of Obama's accomplishments is simply irrelevant to the facts that the federal government still discriminates against LGBT people in myriad ways and still refuses to protect us from discrimination. It is irrelevant, that is, to the major causes of the "outrage"--which are not, contrary to your suggestion, the idea that Obama has done literally nothing whatsoever to advance LGBT rights. Most of the critics are perfectly aware that he has done some things. The problem is that what he has not done looms larger.
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mkultra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-23-10 01:43 AM
Response to Reply #182
186. and the only thing he hasnt done is the job of congress
which is to repeal DADT and DOMA. He has asked them to do both and reiterated the request.
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Unvanguard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-23-10 01:51 AM
Response to Reply #186
189. That only makes sense in a world where the President has no role in setting the legislative agenda
which would probably require us to go back to the early nineteenth century.
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CakeGrrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 09:11 PM
Response to Reply #8
17. Do you just plug your ears when he says "we still have work to do"?
Not to mention that Presidents get 4-year terms.

When people act as if he's done all that he plans to do, that's where I call 'willful ignorance'.
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ClarkUSA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 09:47 PM
Response to Reply #17
34. +1000
Of course.
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treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 09:51 PM
Response to Reply #8
35. OMG I can't stand people like you
For whom nothing is EVER good enough!

:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

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Unvanguard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 10:03 PM
Response to Reply #35
41. Your failure to pay attention to any of the numerous specific complaints people have about this
Edited on Fri Oct-22-10 10:04 PM by Unvanguard
is your own fault, and has no bearing whatsoever on "people like (me)."
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muffin1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 10:06 PM
Response to Reply #35
42. Would it be "good enough" for you if you were
unable to join the military or marry the person you love? Would it be "good enough" for you if your President didn't think you SHOULD be able to marry?

Suppose the next President announces that he/she is against mixed-race marriages? Would you consider that President to be a racist?
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Sweet Charming Dem Donating Member (207 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 11:13 PM
Response to Reply #35
59. God, I can't stand people who want equal rights
Those ungrateful bastards.

:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:
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muffin1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 10:07 PM
Response to Reply #8
43. +1,000,000
:thumbsup:
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Scurrilous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 08:56 PM
Response to Original message
11. K & R
Thanks. :thumbsup:
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JNelson6563 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 09:08 PM
Response to Original message
14. Always good to see progress.
You'd think this kind of news would merit more coverage here. Odd, that.

Julie
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jaxx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 09:09 PM
Response to Original message
15. That's a very good list of accomplishments
and it is making a difference in the lives of many people. I'm glad President Obama has brought this country forward, against heavy odds, and look for even more advancements.

K&R
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TriMera Donating Member (885 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 10:01 PM
Response to Original message
40. You know, Many of us might agree with
the accomplishments, had you simply listed them. But, the comments are just flame bait at this point.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 10:11 PM
Response to Reply #40
45. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
mkultra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 11:43 PM
Response to Reply #45
95. your bully tactics wont work on me
i posted clear and true facts. For you to claim this as unacceptable is a tactic of a bully.
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mkultra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 11:29 PM
Response to Reply #40
69. the only person trying to incite in this thread is you
welcome to DU newbie.
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boppers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 10:10 PM
Response to Original message
44. Moar Plz. kthxbai.
:evilgrin:
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mitchtv Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 10:14 PM
Response to Original message
46. Baldwin Lieberman provides Full partnership rights?
Edited on Fri Oct-22-10 10:15 PM by mitchtv
all except the main one ,perhaps, healthcare, and
YOU forgot the Easter Egg roll
CRUMBS
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davidinalameda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 11:15 PM
Response to Reply #46
60. the Easter egg thing more than makes up for DADT
sheesh!

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mkultra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 11:31 PM
Original message
and the giant list too huh
don't forget that. i know that ruins your argument though.
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mkultra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 11:29 PM
Response to Reply #46
70. more than ANY president in history.
crumbs you say? the most ever i say.
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struggle4progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 10:15 PM
Response to Original message
48. The wedge-drivers won't notice, of course
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mkultra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 11:32 PM
Response to Reply #48
73. yup, we should be working together
not fighting. Every time someone attacks me on this forum for supporting Obama based on GBLT issues, i have to re-remind myself that we are in it together Frankly i must believe that the divisiveness is intentional.
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struggle4progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-23-10 12:40 AM
Response to Reply #73
145. I'm sure we have the usual internet mix here: some principled disagreement, some
half-baked emotionalism, some immature flamebaiters, some wingnut trolls trying to refine their technique, some crazy-as-a-loon folk ... the works ...
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mkultra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-23-10 12:56 AM
Response to Reply #145
157. true that
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firedupdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 10:47 PM
Response to Original message
51. K&R n/t
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DURHAM D Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 10:50 PM
Response to Original message
52. Oh Great.
The straight people on DU are bullying the gay people again. You are "instructing" us as to what we are supposed to think.

Didn't any of you watch Obama's video? Shame on you.

Stop it. Just stop it.

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muffin1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 10:53 PM
Response to Reply #52
53. It never fucking ends, does it?
:wtf:
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scheming daemons Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 11:26 PM
Response to Reply #52
66. "Listing positive accomplishments" = "bullying".... really?

If so... then literally ANY conversation related to LGBT can be considered "bullying".


The OP listed all the good things that Obama's administration has done for LGBT.


....and you consider that "bullying".



Right.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 11:31 PM
Response to Reply #66
71. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 11:34 PM
Response to Reply #71
76. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
mkultra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 11:34 PM
Response to Reply #76
78. did he really do that???
wow, that is truly duplicitous.
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Metric System Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 11:45 PM
Response to Reply #78
100. No I really didn't. Speaking of duplicitous, remember when you pretended to be a Hillary supporter
and posted comments intended to make her real supporters look bad? Uh huh. Duplicitous is right.
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mkultra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 11:50 PM
Response to Reply #100
107. actually, i was mocking them wildly
i would hope that you could tell the difference. And yes, it was good times. glad to see it still stings.
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Metric System Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 11:54 PM
Response to Reply #107
110. It doesn't sting. It's just proof that you enjoy stirring shit. Oh and scheming daemons retracted
his accusation.
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mkultra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 11:57 PM
Response to Reply #110
114. im here talking about facts and your casting aspersions
Edited on Sat Oct-23-10 12:02 AM by mkultra
who is stirring shit again? and why do i care about his "retraction?"
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Metric System Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-23-10 12:08 AM
Response to Reply #114
119. You cared enough to call me duplicitous based on his accusation.
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ClarkUSA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-23-10 12:15 AM
Response to Reply #119
125. mkultra didn't call YOU duplicitous. He was referring to behavior described by another.
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Metric System Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-23-10 12:21 AM
Response to Reply #125
129. OK, so mkultra described my alleged actions as duplicitous.
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ClarkUSA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-23-10 12:25 AM
Response to Reply #129
135. Whatever. What's your point?
Edited on Sat Oct-23-10 12:26 AM by ClarkUSA
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mkultra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-23-10 12:29 AM
Response to Reply #129
137. you know what
if that's what you inferred then you have my apologies. Someone mentioned that you had done something which i thought sounded "duplicitous" It seems clear it was not you and that you certainly where not being so. I was really commenting on the concept less the person but none the less, if you have found perch in offense, then you have my apologies.
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Metric System Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 11:41 PM
Response to Reply #76
91. YOU have no credibility since you are lying. I never posted in either thread. Feel free to post a
link to back up your claim. You'll come up empty-handed. But facts have nothing to do with smears anyway, right?
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scheming daemons Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 11:46 PM
Response to Reply #91
101. My mistake... I confused you with another poster

... sorry.
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mkultra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 11:34 PM
Response to Reply #71
77. Its factual.
that's probably the bite your feeling.
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TriMera Donating Member (885 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 11:37 PM
Response to Reply #77
84. The bite? Seriously?
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mkultra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 11:44 PM
Response to Reply #84
98. you can try to bully all you want
your still empty of fact in this discussion.
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CakeGrrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-23-10 02:22 AM
Response to Reply #71
207. Comments like this are why any chances at a real dialogue are pretty much over
No one can post anything in favor of what the President has done SO FAR, HALFWAY THROUGH HIS TERM in support of the LGBT community. It gets attacked as the old "sit down and shut up" tactic.

Or people are immediately dismissed as "not getting it" or "not understanding it" or just plain "homophobic".

But if you're totally discontent with the President and consider him a failure with regard to LGBT rights, you're in with the "in crowd" around here. You get to say "you're with us or against us" proudly and self-righteously.

:eyes:

And for some, that includes selective amnesia about who was in office when DADT/DOMA were enacted.
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ruggerson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 11:35 PM
Response to Reply #66
80. He then went on to call gay people "vampires"
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scheming daemons Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 11:37 PM
Response to Reply #80
83. I don't see that anywhere in the OP

Is it in another thread?
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ruggerson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 11:40 PM
Response to Reply #83
89. It just got deleted
go to the top of the thread and read - trimera responded to it
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mkultra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 11:58 PM
Response to Reply #89
115. trimera tried to smear my comment into that
so that they could bully me out of the conversation.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 11:37 PM
Response to Reply #80
86. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
ClarkUSA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-23-10 12:55 AM
Response to Reply #80
153. No, he didn't. mkultra did not make any such comparison. He referenced what I said in Reply #1.
Edited on Sat Oct-23-10 12:56 AM by ClarkUSA
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mkultra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 11:33 PM
Response to Reply #52
75. sorry, but i wont be bullied by you
These are facts and i will not stop saying them just because you want me to hate obama.
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DURHAM D Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 11:55 PM
Response to Reply #75
111. Where did I ask you to hate Obama?
You are just making shit up.
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mkultra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 11:59 PM
Response to Reply #111
116. that is actually a rhetorical device
but thats funny.
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Tarheel_Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 10:56 PM
Response to Original message
54. I gotta say, that's an impressive list of accomplishments. Thanks for the...
reminder.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 11:33 PM
Response to Original message
74. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Behind the Aegis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 11:35 PM
Response to Reply #74
79. +1
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mkultra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 11:36 PM
Response to Reply #74
81. and..
don't bully people who you disagree with like this poster.
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scheming daemons Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 11:36 PM
Response to Reply #74
82. The OP never called anyone "vampires".... the rest of your post is good stuff...

But why start out with a lie?
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ruggerson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 11:37 PM
Response to Reply #82
85. oh yes he did
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mkultra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 11:38 PM
Response to Reply #85
87. actually, i didnt,
and like i told you, i wont be bullied by you.
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scheming daemons Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 11:41 PM
Response to Reply #85
90. Link? It is nowhere in any of the posts in this thread....


Accusatory claims like yours require evidence.


Show me a link.
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TriMera Donating Member (885 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 11:43 PM
Response to Reply #90
94. .
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ruggerson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 11:43 PM
Response to Reply #90
96. read right below you
I don't think you'll want to defend him
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 11:46 PM
Response to Reply #96
102. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Metric System Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 11:52 PM
Response to Reply #90
108. Practice what you preach:
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 11:40 PM
Response to Reply #82
88. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
scheming daemons Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 11:43 PM
Response to Reply #88
93. Post #4 says "deleted message" for me....
If he indeed said what you say he said, then he was wrong.

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ruggerson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 11:45 PM
Response to Reply #93
99. You might want to disassociate yourself from him
I know you don't share those views.

And it's far more than wrong. It's indefensible and disgusting.
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mkultra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 11:48 PM
Response to Reply #99
104. i guess this is the response you have to these facts
that's whats disgusting.
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ClarkUSA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 11:50 PM
Response to Reply #93
106. Some people are trying to demonize what mkultra said. He was referencing my reply.
It's obvious he was referring to what I was saying. See Reply #1.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 11:52 PM
Response to Reply #106
109. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
mkultra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-23-10 01:19 AM
Response to Reply #88
173. yup, in response to Post #1
Edited on Sat Oct-23-10 01:20 AM by mkultra
which said:

Bookmarked for the future edification of those who never ever will give President Obama any credit for his historic accomplishments during the past two years because they never liked him in the first place (aka. The Perpetually Outraged).


You can clearly see that i am referring to "those who never liked him in the first place" the same which seem to be "Perpetually outraged." so your attempts to fabricate an issue in an attempt to bully me have failed.
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Behind the Aegis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-23-10 02:23 AM
Response to Reply #173
208. In which you did call people "vampires" as you now admit.
The other poster said you never said it. I only provided the post and made no comment. Your "bullying" accusation is nothing but funny and pathetic as you are the one who started a flamebait thread.
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ClarkUSA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 11:44 PM
Response to Reply #74
97. There you go again.
Edited on Fri Oct-22-10 11:44 PM by ClarkUSA
<< You are not "vampires" as the OP writes. >>

The OP never said anything of the sort. Why are you pushing this meme?
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Sweet Charming Dem Donating Member (207 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-23-10 12:00 AM
Response to Reply #74
117. +1
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Number23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-23-10 12:06 AM
Response to Reply #74
118. You really think that any gay teens reading this will be stupid enough to think that the OP
called them "vampires" when it seems fairly obvious that he didn't?
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ruggerson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-23-10 12:55 AM
Response to Reply #118
155. It's right there in front of you
post #98 preserved it.

And I think gay adults know a bit more about gay teens than you do.

We actually lived it.
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Number23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-23-10 01:08 AM
Response to Reply #155
161. It's probably all a moot point anyway
Because I don't think any teen, gay or not (because we know that so many teens read DU, right?) will buy what you're trying to sell in this thread.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-23-10 01:18 AM
Response to Reply #161
172. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Number23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-23-10 01:26 AM
Response to Reply #172
177. Ruggerson, you may have a group of folks here fooled but I'm not one of them
I have read the post from Behind the Aegis. I also read the post from ClarkUSA that mkultra responded to. There may be some debate between whether the "vampires" in question are the "perpetually outraged" that Clark referenced or the "angry left" that mkultra specifically mentioned, but there was no reference to gays in his post.

And no, I don't think that 18 and 19 year olds read DU besides the odd 5 or 6. There are barely any 20 somethings here and those of us in even in our 30s are seriously outnumbered. So I especially don't believe that many "teens" -- which includes much more than just people aged 18 and 19 years old -- read this web site.
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ClarkUSA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-23-10 01:34 AM
Response to Reply #177
181. BTW, mkultra did not mention "the angry left" in his reply.
It's in his sig line.

Behind The Aegis' post did not make that clear.
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ruggerson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-23-10 01:40 AM
Response to Reply #177
184. The OP references gay rights
Edited on Sat Oct-23-10 01:43 AM by ruggerson
not the "left."

Not the "perpetually outraged."

And the "angry left" is in his sigline - it wasn't part of the post.

Trimera called him on it right away. It's very clear what he was referencing.

But, hey, you have to live with being an apologist for it. Knock yourself out.



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mkultra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-23-10 01:45 AM
Response to Reply #184
188. and again to respond to yoru attempts to bully
i was very clealry referring to clarks reference to those who never liked him to begin with. Its very clear, and i will say no more to you on the topic. Your attempts to smear my name with fabrications earn you a spot on the ignore list. Im sure you will be happier there anyway.
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TriMera Donating Member (885 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-23-10 01:53 AM
Response to Reply #188
190. Since I trust you don't have me on ignore, yet.
Let me just say, I saw what you said and I know to whom you were referring. If you would like to call me a liar, please do.
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ClarkUSA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-23-10 02:03 AM
Response to Reply #190
193. Yes, mkultra was referring to those I described in Reply #1 in his Reply #2.
Edited on Sat Oct-23-10 02:05 AM by ClarkUSA
I hope you can accept that gracefully because the context is clear.
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ruggerson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-23-10 02:03 AM
Response to Reply #190
194. Exactly
It's pretty cut and dried.
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TriMera Donating Member (885 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-23-10 02:07 AM
Response to Reply #194
198. Clear as a bell. n/t
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ClarkUSA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-23-10 01:55 AM
Response to Reply #184
191. Nowhere in Reply #2 does mkultra refer to "gay rights" because he was replying to what I said in #1.
Edited on Sat Oct-23-10 01:56 AM by ClarkUSA
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TriMera Donating Member (885 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-23-10 02:01 AM
Response to Reply #191
192. His reply was at 6:22. You edited post #1 at 6:24. n/t
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ruggerson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-23-10 02:04 AM
Response to Reply #192
195. I thought I noticed that
thank you Trimera!
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TriMera Donating Member (885 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-23-10 02:06 AM
Response to Reply #195
196. No problem. n/t
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ClarkUSA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-23-10 02:07 AM
Response to Reply #192
197. So what? I edited to include parentheses in my closing sentence. What's your point?
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TriMera Donating Member (885 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-23-10 02:08 AM
Response to Reply #197
200. Sure, whatever. n/t
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ClarkUSA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-23-10 02:10 AM
Response to Reply #200
204. lol! Sorry to disappoint you.
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Number23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-23-10 02:09 AM
Response to Reply #192
201. Oh. I didn't see that.
Edited on Sat Oct-23-10 02:11 AM by Number23
Edit: *sigh* Hope this all gets worked out. This whole thing was ridiculously stupid when it first began but now it's gotten tedious too.

I'm going to cook dinner for my babies.
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ClarkUSA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-23-10 02:15 AM
Response to Reply #201
205. Don't fall for the red herring.
In the edit, I included parenthesis around the "aka. The Perpetually Outraged" for clarity's sake.

A search via Google Cache should prove sufficient if there is any doubt.
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Number23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-23-10 02:07 AM
Response to Reply #184
199. Well if the "angry left" bit was part of the sig line, that makes it even easier to determine
who mkultra was talking about -- the Perpetually Outraged that Clark referred to.

Thanks for finally showing some honesty.
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TriMera Donating Member (885 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-23-10 02:09 AM
Response to Reply #199
202. Why, yes. Those inside the parenthesis. n/t
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ClarkUSA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-23-10 02:16 AM
Response to Reply #202
206. That's correct.
Edited on Sat Oct-23-10 02:17 AM by ClarkUSA
You can search Google Cache if you want to. Good night.
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ruggerson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-23-10 02:29 AM
Response to Reply #199
209. uh huh
that's why the OP flatly denied having said it at first, before he realized that someone had cached it:

scheming daemons (1000+ posts)
91. The OP never called anyone "vampires".... the rest of your post is good stuff...

ruggerson (1000+ posts) Fri Oct-22-10 09:37 PM
Response to Reply #91

95. oh yes he did

mkultra (1000+ posts) Fri Oct-22-10 09:38 PM
Response to Reply #95

97. actually, i didnt

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ClarkUSA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-23-10 01:27 AM
Response to Reply #155
178. What's right there in front of you is the fact mkultra was referencing what I said in Reply #1...
Edited on Sat Oct-23-10 01:30 AM by ClarkUSA
... which had nothing to do with what you're accusing him of.



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mkultra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-23-10 12:09 AM
Response to Original message
120. Whats telling is how angry some get when simple facts are posted
the angst and bullying to get Obama supporters to shut up is absolutely amazing.
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Hekate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-23-10 12:10 AM
Response to Original message
121. KicknReality-Based Community heard from again.
:hi:
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Metric System Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-23-10 12:15 AM
Response to Reply #121
126. Because the LGBT community isn't reality-based?
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ClarkUSA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-23-10 12:23 AM
Response to Reply #126
133. What? No one said anything remotely like that.
"A straw man argument is a informal fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position."

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man
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Metric System Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-23-10 12:26 AM
Response to Reply #133
136. Um, my comment was directed specifically at that poster, and not at you or any other.
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mkultra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-23-10 12:30 AM
Response to Reply #126
139. dont bully people into silence
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Metric System Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-23-10 12:37 AM
Response to Reply #139
144. Oh I see what you're doing. Now WE're the bullies. Gotcha.
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mkultra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-23-10 12:53 AM
Response to Reply #144
151. i think you know you intentionally misconstrued his comment
that is bullying plain and simple.
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Number23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-23-10 12:13 AM
Response to Original message
124. Goddammit. There was no reason for this thread to turn into a flamefest
Edited on Sat Oct-23-10 12:16 AM by Number23
But we know that it will be locked soon. This place is so goddamned ridiculous.

Props to Unvanguard and a few others who were able to voice their disagreements with the OP without becoming utter fools. Serious props to scheming daemons who was able to apologize to Metric System when he realized that he called out the wrong person.
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mkultra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-23-10 12:18 AM
Response to Reply #124
127. agreed, thanks to those who stayed adult
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ClarkUSA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-23-10 12:18 AM
Response to Reply #124
128. Let's focus on the positive and ignore those who would draw us into chaos.
Edited on Sat Oct-23-10 12:19 AM by ClarkUSA
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Sweet Charming Dem Donating Member (207 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-23-10 12:22 AM
Response to Reply #128
131. Oh brother
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Metric System Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-23-10 12:22 AM
Response to Reply #131
132. +1
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mkultra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-23-10 12:31 AM
Response to Reply #131
140. irony
are we not brothers here?
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Sweet Charming Dem Donating Member (207 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-23-10 12:37 AM
Response to Reply #140
143. I don't think we are, actually
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mkultra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-23-10 12:54 AM
Response to Reply #143
152. seems like you would need to have been here longer to know
New people that are here to divide don't stay around long though. good luck and welcome to DU brother.
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Sweet Charming Dem Donating Member (207 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-23-10 01:09 AM
Original message
Dupe
Edited on Sat Oct-23-10 01:12 AM by Sweet Charming Dem
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Sweet Charming Dem Donating Member (207 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-23-10 01:09 AM
Response to Reply #152
163. What I see is a lot of you telling gay posters to shut up and be happy for the crumbs thrown at them
That's the DIVIDE that I see.
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mkultra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-23-10 01:13 AM
Response to Reply #163
167. what im saying is that Obama IS working
and there is no need for divide.
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Sweet Charming Dem Donating Member (207 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-23-10 01:15 AM
Response to Reply #167
168. Yeah, he's doing such a swell job of working that he filed an unnecessary appeal for DADT!
But, hey, no more DADT for the White House Easter Egg Hunt...thank the unicorns for that!
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ClarkUSA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-23-10 01:17 AM
Response to Reply #168
170. That's your opinion. Legal experts such as GLBT National Bar honoree Nan Hunter agree with the WH.
Edited on Sat Oct-23-10 01:22 AM by ClarkUSA
Nan Hunter is the first-time winner of GLBT National Bar's highest honor. She agrees w/the WH approach:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...





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Unvanguard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-23-10 01:25 AM
Response to Reply #170
176. Not exactly. Like Walter Dellinger, she wants them to argue against the law while still appealing.
They will almost certainly not do that (though one can always hope.) See her recent post here.
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ClarkUSA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-23-10 01:40 AM
Response to Reply #176
185. My point is Nan Hunter doesn't think the DoJ appeal is "unnecessary" as so many here keep claiming
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Unvanguard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-23-10 01:44 AM
Response to Reply #185
187. That is true.
I have pointed to the same sources to make the same point, though, as I have argued elsewhere, I think there is a strong case for not appealing here--not because the appeal is "unnecessary", but simply because the strong reasons for appealing are countervailed by the stronger need to end DADT.
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mkultra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-23-10 01:22 AM
Response to Reply #168
174. which has ALSO been factually refuted
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Hekate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-23-10 12:29 AM
Response to Reply #124
138. This place is more than ridiculous...
Edited on Sat Oct-23-10 12:30 AM by Hekate
... it's gotten vicious.
IBTL.

Hekate
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vaberella Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-23-10 12:51 AM
Response to Reply #124
150. Meh...that's the style because there is a concerted effort to making Obama a homophobe. n/t
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nofurylike Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-23-10 12:37 AM
Response to Original message
142. K&R! thank you SO much for posting this, mkultra!!! nt
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SwampG8r Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-23-10 12:50 AM
Response to Original message
149. i came in late
and it was what i expected
you show a list with more progress than any time in american history
and
its "not enough"
im gonna rec this and save it back so i will have this list
thank you
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Balbus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-23-10 12:56 AM
Response to Original message
156. It's so neat that gay people have someone like you to tell them...
what they should or should not be outraged about.

You're the best! :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
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akbacchus_BC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-23-10 01:04 AM
Response to Original message
158. Nicely done but where is DADT? If your President is continuing two
invasions, DADT needs to go but more importantly, the army should refuse to be deployed. Selling arms to the Saudis is not helping the peace process in the middle east!
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mkultra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-23-10 01:09 AM
Response to Reply #158
162. Ask congress, again, the president doesnt pass laws.
Edited on Sat Oct-23-10 01:10 AM by mkultra
he only signs them. your sliding your argument around to try and bolster yoru case. Its a common republican tactic.
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ClarkUSA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-23-10 01:10 AM
Response to Reply #158
164. Um, please don't try to hijack this thread by bringing up that Saudi thang.
Edited on Sat Oct-23-10 01:24 AM by ClarkUSA
I believe you started an OP about it already and had enough replies so that you can respond over there.
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Sweet Charming Dem Donating Member (207 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-23-10 01:13 AM
Response to Reply #164
166. Ummm...the poster is Canadian. Therefore, Obama isn't their president.
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ClarkUSA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-23-10 01:16 AM
Response to Reply #166
169. Ummm... I know. My reply has nothing to do with that. Note the time stamp on our replies, brother.
Edited on Sat Oct-23-10 01:16 AM by ClarkUSA
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Sweet Charming Dem Donating Member (207 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-23-10 02:10 AM
Response to Reply #169
203. Looks like you edited your post by the time stamp, actually
Please don't call me brother. As I'm female, and not related to you.
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jonnyblitz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-23-10 02:35 AM
Response to Original message
210. Aaaah, a STFU thread using yet another embellished
Edited on Sat Oct-23-10 02:36 AM by jonnyblitz
*accomplishments* list as the cudgel. Be glad gay stuff isn't taken that seriously here otherwise this blatant call-out of DU GLBTers would have been locked ages ago. One of you lovely people even called us VAMPIRES up thread. NICE. :eyes: like i said, be glad we gay folk aren't taken seriously here so you can have this nasty call-out thread masquerading as an *accomplishments* thread. after all, you are just a reflection of the admin you so blindly support.
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CakeGrrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-23-10 02:42 AM
Response to Reply #210
211. You do not ever want to have a REAL discussion, do you?
As far as you're concerned, there's nothing this President can do except repeal the DOMA/DADT acts that went in under Clinton, and he should have done it yesterday.

Or is that not even enough because whenever it gets done under Obama, it won't have been fast enough?

Why can't anyone say anything positive about any progress BEING MADE IN THE MEANTIME without snide attacks about "sit down and shut up" or "you just don't get it" or "you and the President are homophobes"?

You can shout down anything that doesn't agree with your viewpoint that the President is nothing but a failure and an enemy to the LGBT community, but no one had better post ANYTHING to the contrary because they're just supporting a homophobic president?

Bullshit.
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ruggerson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-23-10 02:52 AM
Response to Reply #211
212. I'm fine with threads commending Obama on what he has been able to accomplish
Even though I have differences with his strategies on DADT and object to his bringing God into the mix everytime he's asked about civil marriage equality.

I've written many times when he's done stuff I thought was constructive and helpful. He's a helluva lot better than having a rightwinger in there.

I think his video today was great and I commend him for it. Some gay kids could see it and be positively affected because it bears the imprimatur of the President.

What I'm not fine with is someone calling gay DU'ers "vampires" as occurred in this thread.

Surely you get that.

And the last line in the OP turns it from something constructive into flamebait.
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CakeGrrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-23-10 02:59 AM
Response to Reply #212
213. My post was not centered around the namecalling, nor do I agree with it
Edited on Sat Oct-23-10 03:01 AM by CakeGrrl
In response to the poster I directly addressed, I vehemently disagree that anything positive posted about anything the President has done with regard to LGBT should be dismissed as an attack. That's a cheap way of not acknowledging valid points made in support of the counterargument that he has done nothing.

As to flamebait, take your pick. I don't appreciate the implication that if I don't consider the President an abject failure when it comes to LGBT issues, then I'm just a homophobe like he is.
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ruggerson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-23-10 03:12 AM
Response to Reply #213
214. Well I think it also depends on the author
If you write something, I read it and take it seriously and process it and try to respond in kind. I'm not going to always agree with you nor you with me, but I trust we take each other at face value. If someone with a long history of antagonizing the gay community here writes something, especially with a flourish of gay-baiting, I think a lot of us look at it with a bit of a jaundiced eye. And, personally, I try to sort out motive. There are people who genuinely believe in gay rights and they appreciate the steps the President has taken and are quite sincere. Then there are people who use snide OP's as a not so subtle way of hammering on DU's LGBT contingent. They each deserve different reactions.
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maddezmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-23-10 03:18 AM
Response to Original message
215. locking
Thread has gone off-topic and become an off-topic flame war full of personal attacks,etc.
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