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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-09-09 09:50 AM
Original message
It's worse than 93-94.
I remember right after President Clinton was elected. I remember my niece and her high school color guard marched in his inaugural parade, and I was so proud, so happy. Here was the first President I ever got to vote for that actually won and things were finally going to CHANGE! I drove around town with my bumper sticker and a stupid smile on my face waving like a joy drunken imbecile at other cars with Clinton/Gore bumper stickers.

Twelve dark years of Regan and Bush, over. A new beginning. I was 33, really coming into my adult years and I had HOPE.

Then DADT, Welfare Reform, Media consolidation, (lost a few jobs on that one) and everything else on top of it. I started learning new words about new Democrats and the DLC. I learned that Democrats were actually business friendly. People I knew, people I had protested Regan policies with, people that I had been arrested with, began falling away, not to be heard from. By 96 I could barely bring myself to vote, but I did my duty and pulled the lever for the Dem, just like always.

By 99 I was at the Battle in Seattle, not breaking windows but trying to do my part. Before Seattle people didn't know the WTO existed, now at least they knew it existed even if they didn't know what it actually was. (From the great movie and a commonly repeated phrase among many of us.) Not much changed, but we were still trying.

By 2000 it was Gore/and he who shall remain nameless, in 2004 it was Kerry/Edwards. Not once did I get to vote for the candidate or policies I supported from the beginning, but I fell in line. It was the same in 2008, and it was different all at once. In 06 we took back the Congress and that's where they sucked me in. Next thing I know I'm in Nevada, Iowa and all over my home state, mostly on my own dime. I'm giving what money I still have after 8 years of Bush's high octane business friendly administration, and I'm giving something more than that, I'm giving my TIME. And more important than that, I was giving my HEART.

Well, was not surprised my candidate didn't make the the cut since I've learned in American politics to expect disappointment, and I fell in line once again. I made phone calls, went door to door and gave what little money I had left. I BELIEVED.

It wasn't stupid to believe, I wasn't naive, I was simply usual. I'm a Madison Ave baby. I grew up with Lincoln Logs and Willie Mays. I believed Wonder Bread helped build strong bodies. I drank milk. All my life the TV was on and it told me to fall in line, to support what is usual. I'll take some blame for believing Captain Crunch was really part of this nutritious breakfast, but not all of the blame.

But back in 2008 there was so much HOPE. WE had the House. With Al Franken we had the brand new magic number of 60 in the Senate! And we had a new face, a new cut of man, we had Barack Obama.

During his acceptance speech I cried like a baby. During his inauguration I sobbed. A new beginning and a new feeling that this country of mine, these people who had been through so much in the last 30 years, this world of ours was truly all going to come together. The long time of madness was over.

The end of Gitmo, the end of war and finally, health care for all of us. A 60 year promise fulfilled, the reason I've supported the Democratic Party for more than 30 years, and it was finally going to happen.

I have the bumper sticker.

I waved again, smiling like an idiot.

They give us crumbs when we've earned loafs of bread and tulips. They forget us and remember them once in office. The system is so fixed now that they don't even have to really worry about re-election because once you're in office, even for one term, you can set yourself up for life. A blind man can see that. The Senate is broken, fully corporate owned and sponsored and full of greedy old men and women who rule as lords. The House? The People's House? I'm sorry to say the House is little better.

Our President, that we all worked so hard for, is not leading on a matter that could save 45,000 lives a year in this country. One of those lives could be the life of your brother or sister, friend or co-worker. It could be my life.

I've always told people if they didn't vote, then they couldn't complain, and now I'm really thinking of testing that theory. I think I might just decide to decent, to mock the feeble, corrupt, big business ran process from my comfortably American poor sideline. I'll work locally, maybe become a thorn in the side of my City Council in my dirty depress city. I will no longer play a game that has become so obviously fixed. I'm sure they won't miss my vote, there are millions of usual citizens just waiting to fall in line behind me, and let's face it, they can get money elsewhere.

Yeah, I'm done. I thought I'd feel guilty but I really just feel relieved, kind of giddy in fact.

It's worse than 93-94, they've lost me for good this time.

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SIMPLYB1980 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-09-09 09:51 AM
Response to Original message
1. ...
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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-09-09 09:58 AM
Response to Reply #1
8. You know, my activism meant something to me.
I'm not a slogan. I've been arrested. I've been handcuffed. I've been sprayed with teargas. I've spent nights in cold jail cells without food or warm clothing. I've been beaten.

And I've voted in every election since 1980, think about that number. I worked hard for this party that will not miss me a smidgen.

Think about that. Think about that this is real for some people and I cried while I wrote this. It means something. Rude little know nothing people like you are a part of the problem, and I feel sorry for you.

Good luck with your party.
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jgraz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-09-09 10:08 AM
Response to Reply #8
17. It means something to a lot of people.
Don't let the haters, baiters and DLC fellators get you down. :hi:
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SIMPLYB1980 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-09-09 10:12 AM
Response to Reply #8
18. Yawn. Lots of people got arrested protesting Iraq.
I was one of them during my college time. What did it accomplish? In my mind looking back it only served to marginalize the anti-Iraq movement. :nopity:
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jgraz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-09-09 10:26 AM
Response to Reply #18
21. Bullshit. You never got arrested.
If you had, you'd have a bit more respect for people who actually *do* put themselves at risk for a political principle. My guess is the most risk you've ever taken in your life is here on DU, posting douchebaggy responses to your betters.

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SIMPLYB1980 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-09-09 10:30 AM
Response to Reply #21
23. LoL!
Hit a nerve did I? :nopity:
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jgraz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-09-09 10:32 AM
Original message
"Hit a nerve": keyboard commando for "you just pwned me, so I'll pretend I won"
Just got my Human-to-Chickenhawk dictionary from Amazon. :hi:
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SIMPLYB1980 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-09-09 10:38 AM
Response to Original message
26. Thank for the morning laugh.
:popcorn:
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-09-09 11:22 AM
Response to Reply #26
38. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-09-09 11:50 AM
Response to Reply #38
49. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-09-09 11:54 AM
Response to Reply #49
51. Says the one with the worst spelling on DU.
I'm surprised you got LOL right. Or did you need spellcheck?
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Ken Burch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-10-09 06:10 AM
Response to Reply #26
115. If it weren't for the people you sneer at, this party would stand for nothing
You're not entitled to act like you're "the only grown-up", or whatever the attitude is that you have.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-09-09 11:41 AM
Response to Original message
44. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
SIMPLYB1980 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-09-09 11:49 AM
Response to Reply #44
48. OH goody my fan club has shown up.
:hug:
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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-09-09 11:54 AM
Response to Reply #48
50. We can't help but rubberneck at the scene.
:applause:
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Nicholas D Wolfwood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-09-09 12:07 PM
Response to Original message
53. You use more cliches than a Britney Spears song. (nt)
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jgraz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-09-09 12:10 PM
Response to Reply #53
54. Sorry, did you just use a cliche to accuse me of using cliches?
Hang on, I need to get a sharper irony knife.
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Nicholas D Wolfwood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-09-09 12:11 PM
Response to Reply #54
55. Google: No results found for "more cliches than a britney spears song"
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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-09-09 12:23 PM
Response to Reply #53
60. Nice Britney reference, Justin.
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Ken Burch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-10-09 06:08 AM
Response to Reply #18
114. There was no alternative
Not protesting would've meant giving up. There's no way to be politically active in any effective way that will not offend or annoy people who already disagree.

Just registering voters(which most antiwar activists were doing anyway)would have been pointless by itself.

Why are you always bringing the diss? There'd be no difference between our party and the Republicans at all if there were no protests.
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closeupready Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-09-09 10:32 AM
Response to Reply #8
24. Again, my wisdom in employing the Ignore function judiciously has been proven again.
I wish you well, and hope the day comes when the Democratic Party decides to actually do its job again.
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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-09-09 10:54 AM
Response to Reply #24
34. I hear ya.
My problem with ignore is that I'm a liberal, and like a typical liberal I believe in dialog. I've almost used the ignore function many times, but I still haven't done it.
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kenfrequed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-09-09 12:37 PM
Response to Reply #34
71. True
Even the most inane DLC blue dog blathering pro lieberman nonsense has only tempted me with using the big 'I.' I just can never bring myself to using it.
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Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-09-09 02:42 PM
Response to Reply #34
88. I just block their PMs so I can continue to enjoy the denial and projection without having to deal
with the "behind the scenes" puffing and whining.


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MissDeeds Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-09-09 03:23 PM
Response to Reply #8
97. Hey Rocky
Edited on Wed Dec-09-09 03:45 PM by MissDeeds
I hear you, and I know that you have given your all to the party. Ignore the naysayers, they don't get it and never will. If the party loses people like you, it is losing not only its base, it's losing its soul. Hang tough. You've done your best.

MissDeeds

K&R
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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-09-09 05:46 PM
Response to Reply #97
99. Thanks for checking in MissDeeds.
Still the best name on DU!
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Jeff In Milwaukee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-10-09 07:44 AM
Response to Reply #1
118. That is seriously funny.
It's probably been posted here before, but it's new to me.

Friggin' LOL!!
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Yupster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-09-09 09:53 AM
Response to Original message
2. I have a friend with a favorite slogan
"I never vote. It only encourages them."

Kinda funny but sad.
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Teaser Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-09-09 09:53 AM
Response to Original message
3. I don't give a damn about your wittle hurt feewings.
.
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jgraz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-09-09 09:54 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. DOUCHEzy!!
:eyes:
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Lilith Velkor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-10-09 12:58 PM
Response to Reply #5
130. !
:spray:
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Tesha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-09-09 10:02 AM
Response to Reply #3
13. You'll give enough of a damn when you want their (and my) vote in 2010.
But at that point, it'll be your "widdle" feelings that will be hurt.

Tesha
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Alexander Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-09-09 10:46 AM
Response to Reply #13
30. Are you saying you won't vote for Democrats ever again?
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Tesha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-09-09 11:28 AM
Response to Reply #30
39. I am saying (and read this carefully now) that Democrats no longer get my vote by default.
I will no longer vote simply because of "the brand". Instead, every
Democratic candidate must *EARN* my vote and between elections,
they must *RE-EARN* my vote.

And if they don't, my vote will go to a more-worthy candidate, even
if "that candidate can't possibly win".

Got all that?

Tesha
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Alexander Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-09-09 11:33 AM
Response to Reply #39
41. Could you try again with less of a hostile attitude?
There is really no need to jump down my throat, I was just asking a question.
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HughMoran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-09-09 07:39 PM
Response to Reply #41
103. The hostile attitude is part of the game
Edited on Wed Dec-09-09 07:39 PM by HughMoran
It's disturbing, isn't it? It's all I can do to not lash out in return.
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treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-09-09 12:22 PM
Response to Reply #39
59. As one single voter, you aren't that powerful
You have to compromise in politics or you accomplish nothing.

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kenfrequed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-09-09 12:50 PM
Response to Reply #59
73. Compromise has worked so well for progressives...
Decades and decades of compromise hasn't gotten us much. Why are we still the ones that are compromising? Anything and everything we want to accomplish is either knocked off the table by conservadems or traded away in the name of bipartisanship to republicans who either are trying to poison all reform or who will refuse to vote yes no matter how much they are offered.

Tell me the value of reform again that must Constantly be compromised. And not truly compromised with another vision of governance but compromised with a part of both parties that seems more interest in placating the anxieties of lobbyists and the people they represent than the people that the parties (especially ours) is supposed to represent.

In this way I envy republicans just a tiny miniscule bit. At least their politicians are far more likely to cling to 'conservatism' (whatever the hell that means) and at least they know with certainty what their party stands for.
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MissDeeds Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-09-09 03:26 PM
Response to Reply #13
98. +1 n/t
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HughMoran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-09-09 07:37 PM
Response to Reply #13
102. I love when I feel like we're being blackmailed
Something disingenuous there, I'm just not sure what! :P
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Tesha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-10-09 07:53 AM
Response to Reply #102
119. You're not being "blackmailed" and if you choose language like that, it's you who is acting "hostile
I simply stated that, after years of having the Democratic Party
taking my vote for granted, they will no longer be able to do that.
From now on, unless a candidate or a party acts to support *MY*
values (which are pretty basic democratic values that used to be
a given for Democratic candidates), that candidate or party will no
longer get my vote or support.

"Blackmail" is a completely different concept.

Tesha
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Robb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-09-09 09:53 AM
Response to Original message
4. Rec. Although I don't entirely agree,
...you make several eloquent points, and I believe the sincerity.

Let us "hope" you are mistaken. :hi:
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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-09-09 10:01 AM
Response to Reply #4
12. Thanks for being the one person not to be rude.
That's what I always looked for when I was at a table or on the phone or canvasing. The one person willing to have a dialog and not be snap judgment rude.

Thank you so much. :hi:
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Robb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-09-09 10:03 AM
Response to Reply #12
15. It's the future of DU.
Much like the past. Civility is a civic virtue. :hi:
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inna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-09-09 01:37 PM
Response to Reply #4
83. +1.

Good OP. Rec.
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Richardo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-09-09 09:55 AM
Response to Original message
6. The line forms to the left.
:nopity:
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NYC_SKP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-09-09 09:57 AM
Response to Original message
7. Nice rant. Thanks for sharing. We'll be fine without you.
There's too much work to be done to lose sleep over a few members threatening, or promising, to leave the party.

We have momentum, the Republicans are all goin' rogue, and we've got work to do.

I'm sure you'll be effective on the local level and I'm glad you'll stay active.

:donut:
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Kdillard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-09-09 09:59 AM
Response to Original message
9. Goodbye. The naivete in your post is astounding.
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jgraz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-09-09 10:03 AM
Response to Reply #9
14. "naivete" -- there's a good, solid DLC word for ya.
You just don't understand... We have to sell out to corporate interests at every opportunity, If we didn't, we couldn't get elected to fuck you over some more.

Thanks, I'll pass.

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Kdillard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-09-09 10:42 AM
Response to Reply #14
29. Sigh if that is what you want to believe fine but I live in the real world.
Whining doesn't help get anything accomplished. Seriously can anyone name me one politician or party that hasn't disappointed them in one way or another? I can't think of one. I am happy so far with Dems and Obama because imo the good has outweighed the bad. I am going to judge him on what he has accomplished in 4 years or eight years if he should get reelected. I expect there will be more stuff that I will like and other things I won't but I am certainly not going to expect perfection or something that no party or politician has or will demonstrate ever.
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jgraz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-09-09 10:52 AM
Response to Reply #29
32. "real world" ... "whining" ... damn, you're pulling out the greatest hits.
Lemme help you out on your next reply:

Handy guide to DLC code words:

+ Adult
+ Pragmatic
+ Sensible
+ Rational
+ Reasonable
+ Centrist
+ Bipartisan

Use these when really mean "pro-corporate, pro-war, anti-worker", but you still want the rubes to vote for you.
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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-09-09 11:43 AM
Response to Reply #32
46. "A member of the reality based community".
Which is almost always a lie. ;)
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Prism Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-09-09 01:36 PM
Response to Reply #46
82. Reality based community
A phrase that is only ever spoken from afar.
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Armstead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-10-09 11:18 AM
Response to Reply #32
124. LOL....It really is a genre. Soon as I see the word "realist" I know it's goinbg to be followed by..
Edited on Thu Dec-10-09 11:19 AM by Armstead
"that's why we can't do anything that might upset conservatives or big business."
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Waiting For Everyman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-09-09 10:28 AM
Response to Reply #9
22. So is your cynicsm.
Pragmatism is just another word for sell-out.
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TwilightGardener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-09-09 09:59 AM
Response to Original message
10. You're a little too emotionally invested in all this. Srsly, take a break from
politics for a while.
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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-09-09 11:42 AM
Response to Reply #10
45. Too emotionally invested in the future of our country, of our planet, of our children?!?!?!? nt
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msallied Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-10-09 01:23 PM
Response to Reply #45
131. Yes.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-09-09 10:01 AM
Response to Original message
11. Deleted sub-thread
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
rhombus Donating Member (678 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-09-09 10:05 AM
Response to Original message
16. FDR famously said: "Make me do it"
You don't pick up your marbles and go home just because you don't get every thing the first time. You keep on fighting. God knows Obama needs grassroots pressure to force his administration in a more progressive direction. As long as this White House knows there's room for progressive legislation with backing from progressives, there will move in a right direction.

Pressure works. Constant pressure works better.
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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-09-09 10:19 AM
Response to Reply #16
19. I respect what you're saying.
I know it is sincere and who knows? Perhaps I'll feel better tomorrow, but right now I'm all called and lettered and protested out man. I just don't have it in me.
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jgraz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-09-09 10:40 AM
Response to Reply #16
27. The difference: FDR actually *wanted* to enact real reform
Obama has no intention of doing that.
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GreenPartyVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-09-09 12:23 PM
Response to Reply #27
63. Does seem that way, doesn't it?
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DCBob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-09-09 10:42 AM
Response to Reply #16
28. But I think "make me do it" did not mean threaten to throw tantrums and quit the party or else...
It means present convincing compelling arguments and work to get alot of people onboard, get the attention of the media, pressure congressmen, which then ultimately results in pressure on the President.
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snake in the grass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-09-09 02:43 PM
Response to Reply #28
90. The arguments have been presented until...
...we are blue in the face. The only things that can really get a professional politician's attention are money and low approval ratings. President Obama is a smart man. If he wants to maintain a Democratic majority, he should seriously consider the constituents he could lose. I'm not too worried about 2012, solely because of the internecine war going on in the GOP. However, 2010 could change the majorities in the House and the Senate to our disadvantage. If Obama cannot get any of the big things done until then, imagine how hard it will be in 2011.
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Armstead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-10-09 11:22 AM
Response to Reply #28
125. Ha! You think that hasn;t been tried many times?
All that seems to come of it is a few verbal crumbs offered which are then taken away.

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treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-09-09 12:23 PM
Response to Reply #16
61. What did he mean by that?
Was he implying that he was all powerful. Because he was not, either.

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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-10-09 06:23 AM
Response to Reply #16
116. The problem is that a cynical person can use that phrase as an equivalent to "suck my dick"
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alpizzy Donating Member (737 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-09-09 10:21 AM
Response to Original message
20. I feel your pain. n/t
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vaberella Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-09-09 10:33 AM
Response to Original message
25. Goodbye. nt
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Garam_Masala Donating Member (711 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-09-09 10:48 AM
Response to Original message
31. The president has reasons to be lukewarm on P.O.

The private insurers are experts in harassing high health risk people.
If the law is changed so they can't cancel your policy, they will simply
harass you in subtle ways such as a) we never received your claim
b) the doctor needs to give more information on procedure performed
c) that code is not covered, please resubmit with the corrected information
etc etc. My wife works as a coder who translates the doctors charts & work
to submit to insurance companies. She can write a book on delaying and
subterfuge tactics by health insurers.

So these people with chronic health issues and pre-conditions will get
tired of fighting the insurance harassment and gravitate to Public Option.

Result is PO will be overloaded with high cost patients. Then premiums
for PO will go higher. ANd it will be just as costly as private insurance
or worse.

Single Payer is the only good system because then every single living
person is in the SAME EXACT POOL. Every one shares the cost equally
pro-rated on income level. I think Barack Obama knows this and is
working on that end more than PO.
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Bobbie Jo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-09-09 09:55 PM
Response to Reply #31
108. +100....you get it! nt
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Armstead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-10-09 11:24 AM
Response to Reply #31
126. Obama is working on Single Payer? he's sure doing a good job of hiding it
Edited on Thu Dec-10-09 11:24 AM by Armstead
That was one of the first things he allowed to be tossed overboard when this whole debacle started.

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azmouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-09-09 10:53 AM
Response to Original message
33. I apologize to you but
I just don't care any more about you or anyone like you that says they are leaving the Democratic party. There has just been so much of this type of complaining in the last 10 months that I have stopped caring whether someone stays or goes. I'm burned out on the complaints. You may have some good points, you may not. We finally got a Democrat as President (for only the second time in my adult life) and all I'm hearing is "things aren't changing fast enough", "I'm not getting exactly what I want" and so on.

Like I said, I'm sorry. I just can't hand-hold any more. I hope you do get exactly the world you want some day with everything and everyone exactly the way you want. In the meantime, the world is imperfect and we have to work within that framework to make life as good as we can for as many as we can.

Best of luck to you.
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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-09-09 10:58 AM
Response to Reply #33
35. What is a person "like me"?
How am I different from a person like you? I've been a liberal Dem all my life, how am I different from you?

I've never asked anyone here to hold my hand, I'll get along fine.
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azmouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-09-09 11:06 AM
Response to Reply #35
36. The type I described in my post.
I want what I want and I want it right now or I'll take my toys and go home.

Obama is only the second Democratic President in 30 years. The country is different now than it was when Reagan took office. Many children grew up only knowing Republican rule. That is a lot to overcome in less than one year of the Obama presidency.
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Armstead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-10-09 11:30 AM
Response to Reply #36
127. Hoiw about wantiung a little something after 30 years of crap?
This claim that people want everything now is crap.

The OP referred to a LONG cycle of raised expectations and dashed hopes.

After 12 years of Reagan/Bush Corporate Conservative policies, what did we get after electing a Democratic president? 8 years of Corporate Conservative economics from Clinton....Liberals and progressives need not apply. Not even moderate liberals.

Now we are seeing the same fucking pattern again.

And so, if some are so frustrated they are tempted to walk away, who can blame them?

Your dismissive response reflects the whole damn problem with too many so-called moderate Democrats. You dislike liberals and progressives almost as much as the GOP does.





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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-09-09 12:18 PM
Response to Reply #35
57. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-09-09 12:20 PM
Response to Reply #57
58. It's been thirty years.
And do we really need to throw around insults and call people names? Trust me, I don't want to associate with people that do that.
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Drunken Irishman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-09-09 12:23 PM
Response to Reply #58
62. Yes we do.
Because I'm sick and tired of the same posts every day about how they're giving up on Obama and the Democrats.

Hate to tell you, buddy, but Pres. Obama wasn't even in politics 30 years ago. Or twenty years ago. Why not give him four to eight years before you decide it's worth throwing everything away for?

So, yeah, stop acting like those crazy assholes who expect everything and anything in a one-year span. We all agree just how fucked up this country is and to expect everything to change IN ONE FUCKING YEAR is the most ridiculous expectation I've ever seen.
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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-09-09 12:32 PM
Response to Reply #62
67. Have an nice day then, er buddy.
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Drunken Irishman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-09-09 12:35 PM
Response to Reply #67
69. Oh I will. I'm not the one giving up on everything.
So, I still have hope.

Whatever that's worth, buddy.
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-09-09 11:14 AM
Response to Original message
37. The Democratic Party is WORSE than merely being "Business Friendly".
Since 1992, the Democratic Party leadership has actively worked to DESTROY organized LABOR and the Working Class.
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eleny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-09-09 11:29 AM
Response to Original message
40. After a number of decades, the crumbs just don't provide enough nutrition
I'm not sure what I'll do in the future. But for now, I can surely understand how you felt all these years and how, today, you've arrived at where you're at.

America could have been so much more. Anything was supposed to be possible. Well, it was possible for Wall Street and big pharma, just not so much for us.
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freddie mertz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-09-09 11:39 AM
Response to Original message
42. I share your frustration and disgust. And I've been at it for 40 years.
Edited on Wed Dec-09-09 11:39 AM by freddie mertz
But please, don't give up all hope.

Work for things that matter for you, and forget the sleazeball politicians for a while.

Also, ignore the rudeness from some of the lesser lights in this thread.

They mean less than nothing to anyone with a life.
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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-09-09 12:26 PM
Response to Reply #42
64. You're a good person.
I'm taking everything you say here to heart. Thank you.
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freddie mertz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-09-09 12:32 PM
Response to Reply #64
68. Thanks. Ray Charles is good too.
When I am down I look for a lift in music, poetry, art, film, a good book.

Politics can really suck.
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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-09-09 11:41 AM
Response to Original message
43. Beautifully said - honest, true and full of heart...
After many, many years of Dem activism, I won't be giving another dime or another hour to the party. I've always felt it was an obligation of citizenship to vote, so I'll still do that. I'll remain a Dem so that I can weigh in during the primaries. But if there ever is a viable peoples' movement/revolution/rebellion, I will surely join up.

Thanks for your post, asdjrocky! K&R
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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-09-09 12:38 PM
Response to Reply #43
72. Hey polichick, thank you!
As always, you know it's great to see you. I tend to mull things over, I haven't decided to make that trip to the post office yet.

I'm with you completely on the money and the time.
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progressoid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-09-09 11:43 AM
Response to Original message
47. Yup. +1
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ChiciB1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-09-09 11:57 AM
Response to Original message
52. I'm Feeling The Same Kind Of Pain & The Same Kind Of Dis-Enchantment!
I don't know what else to do these days... REVOLT? I can no longer wrap my head around what has gone so terribly wrong. There ARE many reasons, but I sure feel like I don't COUNT FOR MUCH!

And I completely agree with you about "once they get elected they're set!" It IS VERY HARD to kick them out and I've said this time and time again!

They have name recognition their opponent doesn't have, they have LOTS of money, and they have PEOPLE who have LOTS of money, and they have PEOPLE who know PEOPLE who have LOTS of money... and so it goes!!

Kick 'em out... I've tried, not so easy AT ALL!
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Drunken Irishman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-09-09 12:12 PM
Response to Original message
56. Aww, poor fella.
You just got your big ol' hopes up and that Big Mean President just couldn't deliver in his first year. Aww.

:cry:
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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-09-09 12:29 PM
Response to Reply #56
65. Does acting like an ass to people really make you feel better about yourself?
Is that why you do it? I've never showed you disrespect and I'm not disrespecting you by what I said in my OP.

I'd love to meet you one day, I really truly would. Maybe we'd see that there's no need for this kind of thing. Maybe not.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-09-09 03:07 PM
Response to Reply #65
95. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Jennicut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-09-09 12:31 PM
Response to Original message
66. I didn't vote until 1996 when I was 19. I doubt I will ever not vote again.
Edited on Wed Dec-09-09 12:32 PM by Jennicut
The Dems obviously will never be true leftists. This is America, the land of corporations. Maybe I was just always cynical but I expected Obama to be close to Bill Clinton, perhaps a bit to the left of him on some things. I am frankly more disappointed in my so called Senators (I live in CT). I have no doubt that the two parties will break in half. It has been coming for a long time. The Repubs look like they are ready to split right now. And maybe for the Dems, eventually, that won't be a bad thing.
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dave29 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-09-09 12:36 PM
Response to Original message
70. I love these missives about how much work people do for the party
Edited on Wed Dec-09-09 12:37 PM by dave29
while getting shit in return (within a 10 month timeframe from a newly elected transformational figure) --- from their perspective.

You are in it for the wrong reasons. Get out.

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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-09-09 12:54 PM
Response to Reply #70
74. It's not about what I've gotten.
Not about that at all. It's about what the country has gotten.

The solutions are pretty simple and they are only made complicated because of big money. They own the people you vote for.

Again, this is not about the last 10 months as it is about the last 30 years. Big business is blowing in the wind and if you can't feel the breeze then you need to take that jacket off.

Have a nice day, dave29.
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dave29 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-09-09 01:04 PM
Response to Reply #74
75. I appreciate the civics lesson
Edited on Wed Dec-09-09 01:07 PM by dave29
have a nice day too.

First rule of winning: never give up. Principles are only as good as the backbone that carries them.
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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-09-09 01:12 PM
Response to Reply #75
77. Winning? What are we winning? What have we won?
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dave29 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-09-09 01:29 PM
Response to Reply #77
81. well for starters
we won the Presidency via an unprecedented grassroots effort that quickly splintered into a bunch of crybabies and a bunch of cheerleaders, depending on your point of view. :shrug:

You are not going to get a lot of argument from me regarding corporate control of the economy, etc. Or the way things have gone in general during the last 8 years in particular. However, you will NOT see me ever risk my vote not counting -- as I am capable of separating apples and oranges. I am also capable of seeing wins for wins and not blanketing my misery as a sweeping generalization of progress over the last 30 years.

My reaction to quitting is always harsh, and it seems to me that the quitting, on your part, happened a while back... you've just hung around to make sure everyone realizes we might not have you around anymore to save the party.

I get it. Move on, already.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-09-09 02:24 PM
Response to Reply #81
87. I don't think that's a fair response to an honest accounting.
First of all, who is this "we" that won the presidency? Obama did, his team did, the Democrats did. What has the base won? Stem cell victory comes to mind but not much else yet. What am I leaving out? Gitmo winding down. What else?

And yes, I know it's early days. But the trend is sort of nerve wracking.

It's not really quitting if you believe you have been excluded from the action, is it? That's more like recognizing your real position in relation to the political process.

And as far as your vote being counted, what kind of audits are done in Austin County? Because without substantial audits, you don't know if your vote counts or not.

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kenfrequed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-09-09 02:49 PM
Response to Reply #81
91. Several points:
1) There is a part of our party that constantly scorns people on the left. It is important that they are reminded of the consequences of doing so.

2) This is not just a place where we ought to be ripping on republicans. It is also a place where many of us gather to talk out the issues and inform each other as well as organize. Many people here write letters or at least call or email their representatives. So talking and communicating disaffection and dissatisfaction is important to the process.

3) Some of the communication here is about communication with each other and letting each other know when we have reached that 'enough is enough' breaking point is important.

4) This is part of the process of pushing our leaders and getting them moving, as above some of us begin here and moe on outside.

5) We also must prevent the Republican spin that obama overreached or the DLC spin that he is too liberal should he somehow get defeated in 2012. Explaining why we are upset and how important it is to keep our base energized is crucial else we get taken for granted again.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-09-09 02:53 PM
Response to Reply #91
93. Yuppers. Well said!
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kenfrequed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-09-09 01:12 PM
Response to Reply #75
78. Right
But principles are only good if you stick to the principles. If you compromise everything and push all of your agenda, policy, platform, and legislation off the table to appease those who will never agree with yoru position than you will get absolutely nowhere.

If our leaders are compromising everything then what are our options? And those that do stand up for the left-progressive wing of the party are constantly mocked or derided or ignored or that we are made fun of by the moderates for supporting them then what are we to make of the situation.

I say again if our leaders will nto stick by principle then we as voters must. Sadly that sometimes means sterner measures like primary runs or picking up your vote and taking it somewhere else.
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dave29 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-09-09 01:46 PM
Response to Reply #78
84. it is rare that leaders stick to their principles
that is part of their job as leaders -- compromise, make things work for everyone. It is our job to defend our principles and try to elect people that share them, as well as hold them accountable.

I also think it's important to not give up 10 months after we have regained the Presidency. I do not share the belief that President Obama lacks principles or that he is not fighting for them. I also firmly believe he is left of center. He is much smarter and more deft a politician than I have seen in many many years. Change is happening. Now, the kind of change many people around here want is the same kind of change George W. Bush brought: Immediate and bad. Obama is thoughtful, which is a GOOD thing. He is looking long down the road and not rushing reforms that he wants to stick... not just shove down America's throat.

I will not argue your point about our leader's and their principles-- there are too many cases of them not living up to them. However, I think it is wrong to assume we cannot bring about change if we stick to OUR principles. Participation is mandatory for Democracy to work.
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truebrit71 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-09-09 01:09 PM
Response to Original message
76. You know what sucks worse? The alternative...that, and that alone should at least persuade you to...
..vote..It sticks in my craw too, he is far too centrist for me, I really wanted a street-fighter, and was expecting it with his campaign rhetoric, but he has so far just turned into another Clinton...

Time will tell, but the initial signs are not encouraging..
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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-09-09 01:16 PM
Response to Reply #76
79. Yeah.
But I don't buy the argument that I should eat the slightly better tasting piece of crap when I can chose not to eat crap at all.

Not any more.
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Hell Hath No Fury Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-09-09 01:26 PM
Response to Original message
80. I've been registered a "D" and voting since 1980 --
almost always for the D's, once for a State R just to spite the D running, and more, recently, third party locally when that was the better choice. I too have sucked it up repeatedly, especially since the second Clinton term.

At the ripe old age of 49 I have decided that I am a progressive first and will vote accordingly, no matter where that takes me politically. I choose to no longer be an enabler of bad policies.

It is liberating and the best decision I have made politically in a very long time.

Find the progressives/liberals locally, statewide, nationally and give them the support they need.

Fuck the rest of them.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-09-09 02:03 PM
Response to Reply #80
85. I'm not there yet and mostly because there is so much I don't know
or understand yet. This health insurance debacle is confusing and hard to keep up with.

Economics has never been a strength of mine so I'm always trying to understand and keep up at the same time.

I'm waiting to see what Obama does in Copenhagen this week.

Transparency, torture, lobbyists, I'm pretty clear about these issues but have more work to do.

DADT is clear to me and it should clearly be history already.

What was just done to the people of Honduras is basically a crime and it was helped from beginning to end -- there is no end yet, people are still being disappeared -- by the Clinton State Department. The LatAm policies are Bush's, just done more quietly.

I'm not disillusioned because I didn't start out with illusions. But I am feeling something like whiplash and weariness from the swiftness of the rightward swing. Maybe time to do something else for a while.




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Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-09-09 02:51 PM
Response to Reply #80
92. I have to re-register and am wrestling with making a party declaration.
If I go "no party affiliation" I don't get to vote in the Reid primary, but knowing the foul refuse that the republik party will put up and the lack of any meaningful challenge to Mormon Harry, makes it seem useless.

I'll always vote, and I'll be voting for the candidates that most closely reflect my values, but not being able to vote in the primaries might keep me in the 'D' column.


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Generator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-09-09 02:04 PM
Response to Original message
86. I know! and he could certainly use those 45 thousand lives
for his war.
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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-09-09 07:07 PM
Response to Reply #86
100. Ouch.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-09-09 02:43 PM
Response to Original message
89. asdjrocky, I hear that and thanks for laying out your thinking so carefully.
I missed the Clinton years, what with small kids and grad school, I was AWOL.

There are a lot of things that trouble me right now, too. Bush might as well have taken a bulldozer to DC, so there's that. Most of the things that trouble me are about the corruption in our system and / but some of them are about Obama or his administration.

Just checking in.





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Autumn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-09-09 03:06 PM
Response to Original message
94. Well said
K/R
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paulk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-09-09 03:22 PM
Response to Original message
96. I often feel the same way,
but I will most likely still pull the lever for the "D" in 2010.

At least here in CO, the alternatives are always worse - the Democrats count on this and they are unfortunately right. You can have a pro business Rockefeller Republican who calls himself a Democrat, or you can have a fundy whackjob who wants to force his or her religion on you.

It's not much of a choice.
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HughMoran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-09-09 07:35 PM
Response to Original message
101. take care then
I haven't noticed you advocate for anything Obama was doing anyway (if you have, it was a long time ago or is so rare that I've not noticed), so I'm not sure if there's a loss here.
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inna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-09-09 08:29 PM
Response to Reply #101
104. jeez, what a pathetically lame post.
are you capable of any critical thinking, at all? (mainly rhetorical.)

:shrug:
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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-09-09 09:09 PM
Response to Reply #101
105. I'm crushed.
Enjoy your can of beans.
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HughMoran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-09-09 09:19 PM
Response to Reply #105
107. heh
Yeah, as am I - this is such a painful episode for me ;)
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RoadRage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-09-09 09:10 PM
Response to Original message
106. Yeah.. if ONLY you'd have voted for McCain - Palin!!
Then, instead of 45,000 troops that will start leaving in 18 months, we'd have another 200,000 or more heading into Iraq for no reason, and more headed to Afghanistan for 10+ years.

There would be further DE-regulation of the healthcare & insurance industries.. so instead of us trying to do something, things could get worse.. and you could see your premium double every 2-3 years over their 8 year term.

Hopefully abortion would be illegalized, or coming soon, because Sotomayor sure wouldn't be sitting in that SCOTUS seat!

The constitution would probably be changed to finally reflect that marriage is absolutely between a man & a woman - no matter what state you live in!

Cap & Trade and any sort of Climate Change iniatives would be shot down in favor of digging for oil anywhere we can find it.

Need I go on?

People love to belabor how HORRIBLE the current administration is, and although not perfect.. he's a far cry better then the alternative. And that was your only other choice... vote for them outright, or sit at home and watch them win instead. You have the opportunity to do that in '12.. and we'll look forward to you back here bitching about that if the Republicans take over too - even if you were complicit in getting them there.

It seems as though many here really can not stand anything good, and quickly look away when they see progress to focus on anything negative or imperfection. So, enjoy!
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LittleBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-10-09 12:09 AM
Response to Original message
109. You've just described perfectly how I feel right now. Like I've been used
and am going through a messy divorce.

To tell you all the truth, it hurt more than I thought it would.
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Truth2Tell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-10-09 12:21 AM
Response to Original message
110. K&R. I guess I could see it coming so none of this
has been much surprise. Cheer up Rocky, you've still got work to do. :)
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kirby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-10-09 12:35 AM
Response to Original message
111. I hear ya!
If Obama doesnt act on his populist message, I am afraid he will lose an entire generation of people, especially the young. They will be so jaded that they wont bother to vote or volunteer for decades.
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apocalypsehow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-10-09 12:39 AM
Response to Original message
112. Haaaaaaaaaaaaaa!
Good one!

...oh, wait. You weren't joking?

:eyes:

Grow up
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Kind of Blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-10-09 01:28 AM
Response to Original message
113. Well, good. The veil has fallen. Welcome to the world
of politics! I'm surely glad those who fought and died for the abolition of slavery, self-autonomy in non Western countries, women's rights, child labor laws, civil rights, et cetera did not give up in 10 months.

That said, please take a break. I do hope you feel better about the infuriating process tomorrow or however long it takes :)
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Peacetrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-10-09 06:45 AM
Response to Original message
117. Did you really think it was going to be that easy... seriously.. even my 80 plus Mom knew better
Honest to God my friend, you cannot have fought as hard as you have fought and then just give up like this..
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beyond cynical Donating Member (150 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-10-09 09:12 AM
Response to Original message
120. "I learned that Democrats were actually business friendly."
Do you propose making it harder to do business...?
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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-10-09 10:10 AM
Response to Reply #120
121. No. I propose making it just a little easier for the American people.
People first. Then business.
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beyond cynical Donating Member (150 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-10-09 10:19 AM
Response to Reply #121
122. How does it become easier for the American people if it is hard for American businesses
to do business?

Case in point: At present, we are in the midst of a very difficult business climate, which has forced many businesses to let people go.

It seems to me that if we make it easier to do business in America, we will make it easier for the American people.
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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-10-09 10:34 AM
Response to Reply #122
123. NAFTA made it easier for the business people.
How's that working out for the American people? Clinton's Telecommunications Act made it waaaaay easier for big business, how did that work out for the American people? Billions of dollars to the banksters as the people everywhere lose jobs and homes, how's that working out for the American people?

I've got nothing against business, I was a business owner, but we need to put people first, then business. When we put business first, the people lose.

You "business friendly" talk, is just DLC talk. FDR didn't come out as ask how we can make it easier for the business interests in America. Did he?
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Armstead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-10-09 11:52 AM
Response to Original message
128. Sad but true....I wouldn't suggest giving up, but....
Edited on Thu Dec-10-09 11:54 AM by Armstead
Having been on the roller coaster of expectations and disappointments since the 1980's (and before) I totally share your frustration with what seems like another replay.

For liberals and progressives (including moderate ones), the Democratic Party should be the party of light and hope. Too often it's become the party of shade and dashed hopes and selloputs.

And what is especially frustrating is that it doesn't have to be that way. But it is.



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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-10-09 12:04 PM
Response to Reply #128
129. Capitulation to the right and to big business.
That's all I've seen in my adult years. I don't want to give up, but at some point you have to ask yourself why you are doing it. I can act locally and perhaps have a chance of seeing some good coming from my activism.

The system, on a national, state and congressional level seems completely broken and I have no idea how to fix it.
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Aramchek Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-10-09 01:56 PM
Response to Original message
132. adios!
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