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impik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-10 01:39 AM
Original message
"Democrats should be proud of Obama"
Joe Klein:


The lead item on Politico--titled "Dems Urge Obama to Take a Stand"--is almost surrealistic. Take a stand? The guy passed health care, a stimulus bill that helped avoid a Depression, a groundbreaking financial reform bill that is too complicated to be popularly described, a bailout that enabled General Motors and Chrysler to survive. He nominated two estimable women to the Supreme Court. He restored America's image in the world. I can go on...

But Dems are distressed? He's not populist or ideological enough? Oh please. There are several ways to go about the presidency. Ronald Reagan chose one way: he said one thing and did another. He was for cutting back the size of government, but didn't. He was for lowering taxes and he did, but then he raised taxes--two of the laegest percentage increases in American history--when his supply-side "philosophy" proved a phony. He confronted the Soviet Union, but he also would have agreed to massive reductions in nuclear arsenals if the Soviets had allowed him to pursue his Star Wars fantasy.

Barack Obama has chosen another way.
He has pretty much done what he said he'd do. His achievements are historic. But he hasn't wrapped them up in an ideological bumper sticker--or provided some neat way for the public to understand it, or pretended to be a yeoman simpleton, noshing on pork rinds, clearing brush and excoriating the business community. That is a real political problem. He delivered a stealth tax cut to 95% of the American people; I've never seen a politician cut taxes and not take sufficient credit for it before. He made it impossible for Americans to be denied health care coverage because of pre-existing conditions or chronic problems; somehow this has gotten lost in the "socialist" shuffle as well. He ended major combat operations in Iraq, on time and without much fuss--without using the word "victory" or denying the continuing problems involved in cobbling together a coherent government there. Another President might have hyped this "achievement" relentlessly.

//



Sure, it would be nice if the White House were Reagan-savvy (that is, Michael Deaver-savvy) about public relations. But Democrats should not delude themselves by thinking that ideological purity, or a phony populism foreign to the President's character, is the answer. At a moment as complicated and unnerving as this, there are no easy answers. At a moment as complicated and unnerving as this, it isn't hard to imagine a failed presidency--although, of course, it would be foolishly premature to do so. But it is not possible, at this point, to imagine a dishonorable Obama presidency; he has faced the national crisis in a manner that may be politically flawed, but he has not run from, or fudged or demagogued, the problems. He has done pretty much what he said he was going to do when he ran for office. That is something Democrats should be able to live with, proudly.


Read more: http://swampland.blogs.time.com/2010/08/23/dems-depress...
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Hekate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-10 02:46 AM
Response to Original message
1. 5th Rec and the Dem Rockettes.
:kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick:
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jaxx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-10 03:21 AM
Response to Original message
2. You bet I'm proud of President Obama.
Amidst his "inheritance" he has gone on to deal with that and to get the things done he said he'd do. Health care, for the first time it wasn't shoved back under the rug...a monumental feat. Financial reform, dragging the right kicking and screaming into the future one more time. So many other things done, FMLA and hospital rights for the LGBT, DADT is on its way out.

:fistbump:
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lamp_shade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-10 04:30 AM
Response to Original message
3. Thanks, Impik. K&R
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-10 05:06 AM
Response to Original message
4. Any person with half a bit of respect for themselves- which excludes Joe Klein
would be ashamed.
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pnorman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-10 05:20 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. Ashamed? What for?
n/t
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-10 05:23 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. Deleted sub-thread
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
impik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-10 06:05 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. For doing what he said he'll do, and not what "ignored" chose to think he will
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-10 06:26 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. Show me where the Con law prof said he'd ignore the law
that he taught to others.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-10 09:50 PM
Response to Reply #7
32. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
ibegurpard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-10 11:42 PM
Response to Reply #32
34. If you think Hillary would have been better I have a few bridges to sell you
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geek tragedy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-10 08:14 AM
Response to Reply #4
12. LMAO. Yes, anyone who doesn't buy the Obama=Bush
canard when it comes to his DOJ suffers from poor self-esteem.

Ignorance and arrogance is a terrible combination.

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dionysus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-10 10:07 AM
Response to Reply #4
15. someone should be ashamed, but it isn't joe klein.
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scheming daemons Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-10 06:15 PM
Response to Reply #4
25. Wow,,,, that post was pathetic, even for you depakid
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-10 08:11 PM
Response to Reply #25
27. You know what's pathetic?
Edited on Tue Aug-24-10 08:12 PM by depakid
People supporting torture, unconstitutional criminal procedures and executive usurpation of power and the maintaining of the culture of unaccountability- where the rule of law doesn't apply to corporate entities in multiple sectors of the economy- or to corrupt public officials.

Just because it's the Obama administration doing it- as opposed to Bush or some other Republican (in which case many of the very same people here would be howling loudly about it).

Yep- that's something to be proud of alright.
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ncteechur Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-10 08:28 PM
Response to Reply #27
28. depakid--you're the one who should be ashamed.
Edited on Tue Aug-24-10 08:29 PM by ncteechur
and now, off to my ignore group with you.
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-10 09:09 PM
Response to Reply #28
31. I guess returning accountability under the rule of law to pre-Bush norms isn't as important
Edited on Tue Aug-24-10 09:10 PM by depakid
as loyalty to a politician.

Ignore all you like, but the facts on the record- and the acts and omissions of this administration continue to speak for themselves.

Repeatedly.
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Hekate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-25-10 04:11 AM
Response to Reply #31
35. So, let me understand this. Obama is just like Bush? I want to know.
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-25-10 07:40 AM
Response to Reply #35
39. In words or in deeds?
How about one "little" example:

Aug. 2, 2007: Sen. Barack Obama makes a simple promise he will often repeat to loud domestic -- and foreign -- applause during his $750 million presidential campaign:
As President, I will close Guantanamo, reject the Military Commissions Act and adhere to the Geneva Conventions. Our Constitution and our Uniform Code of Military Justice provide a framework for dealing with the terrorists.

Jan. 22, 2009: With the official flourish of a newly-inaugurated president and a platoon of retired generals for a living backdrop, as one of his very first official Oval Office acts, Barack Obama signs an executive order to close the Guantanamo Bay Detention Facility within one year:

This is me following through on not just a commitment I made during the campaign, but I think an understanding that dates back to our founding fathers, that we are willing to observe core standards of conduct, not just when it's easy, but also when it's hard.

Critics warn the complex closure cannot be accomplished by waving a magic wand. They say that other countries once so eager to denounce the Guantanamo prison are unlikely to be equally eager to accept accused terrorists from there. And that finding and rehabbing an alternative mainland incarceration facility for the remaining hardcore prisoners is expensive, duplicative, likely politically unpopular and virtually impossible to accomplish within the promised one year.

July 21, 2009: The White House grants its Guantanamo closing commission an extra six months to study the situation.

Dec. 16, 2009: President Obama signs a presidential memorandum ordering Atty. Gen. Eric Holder and Defense secretary Robert Gates to acquire the state prison in Thompson, Illinois as the $350 million replacement for Guantanamo.

Administration officials are forced to acknowledge the obvious, that closing the facility in Cuba will not occur in 2009 but will spill over into 2010, possibly even late 2010.

Jan. 22, 2010: The one year promise anniversary. No closing. No ceremony.

-----

You're proud of this?



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Whisp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-25-10 07:23 PM
Response to Reply #39
46. It's most likely distorted. I see that a lot here.
Edited on Wed Aug-25-10 07:23 PM by Whisp
The haters pick up some lameass r/w site and recycle it (means its was picked up by a 'professional leftist blogger somewhere' and now called disgruntled Dem criticism when it's just RW dirt really, and bring it here and wallow in self righteous finger pointing and braying. I have to admit though that I haven't even read your article depakid, because you have a track record on making even a good Obama thing look like it came out of Cheney's ass.

So sorry I don't pay attention to you, who knows you may be right now and then and I could miss it. but thanks to your frothing rage, you are not readable to me, I have nothing I can learn from you.
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Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-25-10 09:08 PM
Response to Reply #39
47. ever feel like you're living in bizarro world, dep?
I sure do :(
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quiet.american Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-10 07:21 AM
Response to Original message
9. Excellent. K&R nt
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great white snark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-10 07:25 AM
Response to Original message
10. Good for Joe, K&R
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BootinUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-10 07:33 AM
Response to Original message
11. marking for future reading
got to head to the salt mines.
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SoxFan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-10 09:28 AM
Response to Original message
13. K&R
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WI_DEM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-10 09:37 AM
Response to Original message
14. Well said! I can't think of a president who has accomplished so much in so little time since LBJ
63-65.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-10 10:51 AM
Response to Original message
16. And, I am! Politico wants traffic..
Good for Joe Klein shining some facts on what has exactly transpired since the President took office.
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BootinUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-10 11:25 AM
Response to Original message
17. Thats a damn good article.
imho
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-10 01:08 PM
Response to Original message
18. "He's not populist or ideological enough? Oh please." Hear hear!
K and R. :kick:
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mistertrickster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-10 04:03 PM
Response to Original message
19. Joe Klein on the Iraq War . . . adding his voice to war hysteria, baby!
Here is Klein on Meet the Press in February 2003: "This is a really tough decision. War may well be the right decision at this point. In fact, I think it--it's--it-it probably is." When Tim Russert presses Klein on why he thinks Iraq is "the right war," Klein responds, "Because sooner or later, this guy has to be taken out. Saddam has -- Saddam Hussein has to be taken out... The message has to be sent because if it isn't sent now, if we don't do this now, it empowers every would-be Saddam out there and every would-be terrorist out there."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/arianna-huffington/joe-kl...
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Hydra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-10 04:20 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. Oh, feel the burn!
:evilgrin:

I hated that timeperiod- we all knew we were being lied to, but they all thought they had us convinced. *shakes head*
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-10 05:31 PM
Response to Reply #19
23. And your point?
How is your post related to the subject?
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mistertrickster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 08:25 AM
Response to Reply #23
49. I don't believe idiots just because they write something I happen to agree with.
There is no -- zero -- zilch -- zip -- nada accountability in the media pundit gig.

They can jump on the bandwagon of war hysteria like Klein did and then when it turns out to be a pack of lies -- like us non-media pundit people said it was -- he just keeps raking in the big bucks there at TIME magazine while the rest of us have to accept his "apology."

How about he gets fired for gross incompetence at his job? And we get to read somebody who wasn't totally and completely wrong about the biggest issue since Vietnam?
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-10 05:34 PM
Response to Reply #19
24. And he's since apologized and admitted he was wrong. Must
be nice to never make a mistake.
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mistertrickster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 08:16 AM
Response to Reply #24
48. BabSis, I have always respected your opinions and admired your posts. But . . .
Edited on Thu Aug-26-10 08:20 AM by mistertrickster
I don't see buying Bush's bullshit as a "mistake."

I see it as getting caught up in war hysteria and being too gutless to think for one's-self.

I'm just an ordinary guy in a medium sized town in Kansas, but I could see that Bush was lying out the ass about Iraq. Joe Klein was in a much better position to see the truth. And to have done something about it.

He apologized. Gee, that's nice. Tell it to my son who served a year in freaking Ramadi and saw his buddies freaking die.

I'm sorry too, Joe. Sorry you're such a coward.

ON EDIT--And if Mr. Klein could be wrong about the most important issue since Vietnam, why should I listen to him now. I hate how these media pundits seem to have tenure-for-life. What shows incompetence more clearly than supporting Bush on Iraq?
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-10 05:30 PM
Response to Original message
21. We are.
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-10 05:31 PM
Response to Original message
22. I am. Rec'd. nt
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-10 06:42 PM
Response to Original message
26. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Hekate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-25-10 04:19 AM
Response to Reply #26
36. "Shaming and rhetoric"? "Offer some facts"? Plenty of facts have been offered here, but ...
... you appear to be bitterly unhappy and deny the truth of any of them.

In another thread you said that jobs and public health care were the ONLY reasons you voted for Obama, and now you completely regret it and wish you had voted for Hillary because she "might" have managed to get a public health plan through the same Congress that obstructed Obama's efforts. You said he had lied.

Are you sure you ever supported either one of them in the first place? I don't recall either Obama or Hillary promising things in quite the ways you claim.

Interested in your response.

Hekate

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CTLawGuy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-25-10 05:13 AM
Response to Reply #26
38. "Obama's health care reform is nothing but a shill out to big insurance"
Bernie Sanders, Russ Feingold, Alan Grayson and Dennis Kucinich disagree with you on that.
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-25-10 07:53 AM
Response to Reply #38
40. August 25: Excellus BlueCross BlueShield seeks to raise rates up to 12.5 percent
...the Rochester region's largest health insurer, is proposing 2011 premium increases that would raise some of its business customers' rates between 9.5 percent and 12.5 percent. Increases in what companies pay almost always mean higher insurance costs for employees.

Excellus' increases, however, do not include the large price spikes for some small businesses that its chief rival, MVP Health Care, included in a similar filing earlier this month. MVP proposed average increases of between 25 percent and 31 percent for some of its small business customers.

More: http://www.democratandchronicle.com/article/20100825/BU...
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SoxFan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-25-10 11:11 AM
Response to Reply #26
42. Oh look, Marvin the Android has a DU account
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BeyondGeography Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-10 08:35 PM
Response to Original message
29. So hard for the children to deal with President Adult
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Codeine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-29-10 08:32 AM
Response to Reply #29
56. +1
What a petulant bunch of whiners.
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nofurylike Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-10 08:41 PM
Response to Original message
30. i am. thank you for posting this, impik! nt
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Honeycombe8 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-10 11:11 PM
Response to Original message
33. I AM proud of him. He's accomplished a heck of a lot in his time in office...
including helping to keep the country from sliding into the second Great Depression.

Unfortunately, the economy still is in deep trouble. And we know what that means.
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smalll Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-25-10 04:36 AM
Response to Original message
37. Say what you will about Michael Deaver -- he would NEVER let his President wear mandals.
Edited on Wed Aug-25-10 04:38 AM by smalll


Image counts!

(Look at the secret service guy on the far left - you can tell he's thinking "don't you pay advisers to stop you from doing things like this? Is David Axelrod on vacation this month?")
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Hekate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-25-10 06:30 PM
Response to Reply #37
44. One of Nixon's iconic pix is of him walking the beach in Calif in a suit and dress shoes
It said so much about the man and the dignity of the office, don't you think?

Btw, what are mandals?

Hekate
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Sentath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 08:47 AM
Response to Reply #44
50. Re: what are mandals?
I submit that that word is evidence that the late 20th century gender binary has rotted down and gone toxic.

Oh, you mean literally what are they? Sandals (designed to be) worn by a male.

:sigh:
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Amimnoch Donating Member (377 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-25-10 08:21 AM
Response to Original message
41. Edited: "Democrats who got their pony should be proud of Obama"
Edited to make it a bit more accurate.
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zipplewrath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-25-10 11:54 AM
Response to Original message
43. If this was an original post, it'd probably get locked or deleted.
It has become an interesting way for folks to effectively get around the rules of DU, post something from another source that otherwise probably would be in violation of the rules.

Just once I wish these folks that want to complain about a whole group of people, would actually get one or two of them and have a conversation, instead of giving a lecture to functionally a strawman.

I appreciate that the folks that are getting the "change" they wanted are pleased. They might just want to consider for a moment that the folks that aren't, are equally displeased. Trust me, it isn't that he isn't anything "enough". It is that he has been far too much "not at all". I could more easily accept that he "didn't get it all", than I can him "doing the exact opposite".
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Whisp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-25-10 07:15 PM
Response to Original message
45. super Rec! Klein gets it.
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Sentath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 08:56 AM
Response to Original message
51. A longish response
I posted this in the other thread, figured I'd put it here too.

health care: Err, no. Insurance accessibility perhaps

a stimulus bill that helped avoid a Depression: Yup, tho more was, is and will be needed.

a groundbreaking financial reform bill that is too complicated to be popularly described: Which worries me that it may be too complicated to have the heartening effect on public confidence in the financial sector that it needed to have. It may also be too complicated to have its intended effect in some areas, too many loop holes and sidesteps, but we will see. I'm hopeful.

a bailout that enabled General Motors and Chrysler to survive: Yes! (and wasn't one of those even profitable?)

He nominated two estimable women to the Supreme Court: Yup, absolutely.

He restored America's image in the world: Err, we certainly had a wild upsurge in popularity there for a while. I wonder what that looks like 'bout now what with Gitmo and the 2 wars and associated ugliness?

He delivered a stealth tax cut to 95% of the American people; I've never seen a politician cut taxes and not take sufficient credit for it before: Agreed, this is a real problem.

He made it impossible for Americans to be denied health care coverage because of pre-existing conditions or chronic problems; somehow this has gotten lost in the "socialist" shuffle as well: Yes!, this item from the Insurance Reform is Awesome. Whether this will make any practical difference in the availability of Health Care for these conditions is still a developing situation.

He ended major combat operations in Iraq, on time and without much fuss--without using the word "victory" or denying the continuing problems involved in cobbling together a coherent government there. Another President might have hyped this "achievement" relentlessly: I dunno. It still feels like weasel words with so many still there and going to be there forever.

Thats the first 3 paragraphs, the next one says: the recession/depression and culture wars are a mess. I agree.

Para 5: Yeah, we'd still be in trouble. But maybe we could be jubilantly defiant in our distress.

Para 6: Here we need one of those candidate v.s. president montages. Yeah, he has done alot. Historic amounts maybe. But I still believe we have reasons to be less than jubilant.
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flamingdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-27-10 11:49 AM
Response to Original message
52. Obama is above phoney populism, so true nt
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janx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-27-10 12:05 PM
Response to Original message
53. I'd recommend this if I could! kick
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MaeScott Donating Member (295 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-28-10 01:54 PM
Response to Original message
54. I am very proud of our President.....
...and hopes he builds on his successes.
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NJmaverick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-29-10 08:14 AM
Response to Original message
55. It's nearly impossible not be proud of our President and what he has accomplished
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