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MannyGoldstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 08:47 PM
Original message
Gibbs' attack video against Howard Dean
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1DqOwP3Xzc

In case you missed it, a pro-Bush ad attacking Howard Dean - Gibbs was part of the team that created it (and tried to remain anonymous).

I wondered why I hadn't seen it in the videos forum, turns out it had been posted in that forum in 2007 so it can't be posted again.
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NJmaverick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 08:49 PM
Response to Original message
1. yup this is the first time you ever saw one democrat attack another
during a primary. This is what makes Mr Gibbs such a mean mean man :sarcasm:
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MannyGoldstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 08:51 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Gibbs was backing Bush. Gibbs was backing Bush.
Edited on Wed Aug-11-10 08:53 PM by MannyGoldstein
Do you comprehend that?

Or is it now cool to support Republicans - even the worst sort of Republicans?
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NJmaverick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 08:52 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Dean never ran against Bush, do you comprehend that?
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Whisp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 08:54 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. zing!
:rofl:

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MannyGoldstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 08:56 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. Gibb's ad specifically states that Bush is stronger on foreign policy than Dean.
Edited on Wed Aug-11-10 08:57 PM by MannyGoldstein
Or do you have a hearing impairment?
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democrat2thecore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 09:02 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. Right. The '527' group that funded the ad was a front for John Kerry -nt
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 09:27 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. No it wasn't n/t
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democrat2thecore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 09:33 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. You know, you're right. It was a Dick Gephardt front. Gibbs' WAS the spokesperson. -nt
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 11:14 AM
Response to Reply #7
37. No it wasn't - Kerry condemned the ad immediately
It was a group mostly supporting Gehardt on trade issues. Many unions were involved and gave money.
The connection to Kerry is weak - Gibbs worked for Kerry and left after Kerry fired Jordan, who was Gibbs' mentor. Kerry did not rehire Gibbs - even in the general election.
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democrat2thecore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 09:53 PM
Response to Reply #37
68. And I corrected myself above last night. You are absolutely right. -nt
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-15-10 08:07 PM
Response to Reply #7
111. wrong...Gibbs and his boss got the boot from Kerry...Kerry also immediately condemned the ad
Max Cleland is one of Kerry's closest friends. You think Kerry would be so classless to want a stupid ad like that made?

Besides, that ad did NOTHING to dent Dean - it was Deans poor debate and town hall performances in Iowa that were pulling his numbers down and had been since midNovember.
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-15-10 08:09 PM
Response to Reply #5
112. It's called Intentional Ignorance.
It's a kind of Doublethink that occurs when the facts violate the pseudoreality of ideological doctrine.
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eleny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 09:00 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. Gibbs helped to make sure of that
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 09:28 PM
Response to Reply #3
11. People have a really hard time getting over primaries. n/t
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wisteria Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 10:02 PM
Response to Reply #11
16. +1 n/t
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girl gone mad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 11:55 AM
Response to Reply #11
41. Is that why Gibbs decided to lash out at the left..
Still bitter over some ancient primary battle?
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mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 11:55 AM
Response to Reply #11
42. People have a really hard time getting over slime attacks.
So maybe the people who instigate these attacks should remember this, especially when used against one in their own party. It's why I won't vote for Lee Fisher in November. Rovian tactics suck!
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 07:36 PM
Response to Reply #3
61. You can thank Gibbs for that ....
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Ken Burch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 10:35 PM
Response to Reply #2
80. Uh, no, Manny. Gibbs was backing Gephardt
Edited on Thu Aug-12-10 10:36 PM by Ken Burch
He was attacking Dean(unfairly)in the name of building up Kerry's chances in Iowa, by arguing that Dean would be a weaker challenger to Bush than Gephardt would've been.

And boy, stopping Dean REALLY worked for us that year. Yessiree...thanks to that ad Gephardt was our nominee and we beat Bush in a landslide...oh, wait...
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 03:14 AM
Response to Reply #1
21. The hypocrisy displayed
Edited on Thu Aug-12-10 03:17 AM by sabrina 1
in trying to defend this scum, is simply stunning.

This was when Dean had a real shot at defeating Bush. To use the Republican fearmongering propaganda that Bush was better on National Security than Dean and Dems in general, to use a Willy Horton type scare tactic, was straight out of Rove's and Atwater's book. Despicable.

To think this creep may have contributed to the loss of that election and helped give us four more years of Bush when every Democrat and decent Republican and Independent in the country were working their hearts out trying to save this country, willing to back whichever Democrat won even if it wasn't their favorite, things were that bad, THIS SCUM was helping tear down probably the best hope of a Bush defeat with Republican tactics that have been condemned by every Democrat I know.

Gibbs is mean, yes, no sarcasm tag required, but he's much, much worse than that, he is a coward and he is definitely no Democrat. So, what is he doing in this party?

If you condone what he did, you have no right ever again to slam people for merely having policy disagreements with this administration. Anyone who defends this slime, then attacks good Democrats, will have zero credibility from now on.
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NJmaverick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 06:24 AM
Response to Reply #21
26. The only "hypocrisy displayed" would be those suggesting
that Gibbs did something out of the ordinary. It shows an agenda that tosses intellectual honesty under the bus.
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MannyGoldstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 06:42 AM
Response to Reply #26
27. Fine. Point to other commercials by Democrats that praise Bush.
(I'm expecting a l-o-n-g wait).
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Ignis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 11:40 AM
Response to Reply #27
38. I'll second that request.
Pull up a chair, Manny. I think we'll be here a while.
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cherokeeprogressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 12:34 PM
Response to Reply #38
48. #3 n/t
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Ignis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 01:16 PM
Response to Reply #48
53. Think we can get a group rate?
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 12:59 PM
Response to Reply #26
49. I have asked you to supply the names of
respected Democrats still in this party who have used such vile Rovian tactics against another Democrat .

You seem to have trouble doing so.

Your continued defense of this DLC right leaning slime reduces your credibility to practically zero as far as I am concerned. These are not the standards of a Progressive Democrat, these are Rovian standard. And neither they nor he belong in our party.
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tnlefty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 05:38 PM
Response to Reply #26
57. I was furious and disgusted when this type of low down, sorry assed
shit was done to Max Cleland. It was outrageous and totally out of bounds.

Gibbs did something out of the ordinary, he mimicked the most low down scum of the right in relation to a 'supposed', on Gibbs' part, fellow democrat.
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Jakes Progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-13-10 03:07 AM
Response to Reply #26
88. Where did you go?
We've been waiting hours for you to respond with the names of all those Democrats who praised bush to win primaries. You know some of the number that you suggested did this all the time.

Can't wait for those links to back up your post. Surely you wouldn't just make up shit and post it without any foundation. That would be shocking.
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suzie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-15-10 12:40 AM
Response to Reply #26
103. You're asking a lot if you want some posters to even consider political realities.
Far better to complain about what might possibly/woulda/coulda/shoulda been if only.
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moksha Donating Member (345 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 07:38 AM
Response to Reply #1
30. With a disgusting right wing fear-mongering frame.
Do you think it was fair and accurate?
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spiritual_gunfighter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 09:05 PM
Response to Original message
8. Wow
That is truly fucking disgusting, I am pretty shocked, but maybe I shouldn't be Robert Gibbs has shown everyone what type of person he is.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 09:28 PM
Response to Original message
10. "Gibbs was part of the team that created it " No he wasn't n/t
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MannyGoldstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 09:49 PM
Response to Reply #10
13. Who to believe? NY Times or ProSense?
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ibegurpard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 09:52 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. not really
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 09:57 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. What exactly does that prove? The article
Edited on Wed Aug-11-10 10:04 PM by ProSense
has been out here for seven years:

The group's president, Edward F. Feighan, a former Ohio congressman, donated $2,000 to the campaign of Representative Richard A. Gephardt of Missouri, records show, and its treasurer, David Jones, has worked as a fund-raiser for Mr. Gephardt. Its spokesman, Robert Gibbs, recently resigned as the press secretary for Senator John Kerry of Massachusetts, another presidential candidate.

Staff members for Mr. Gephardt and Mr. Kerry acknowledged earlier this fall that they had occasionally shared information about Dr. Dean as they prepared attacks against him.

But officials with the Kerry and Gephardt campaigns denied any involvement with the new group, which under campaign finance law does not have to disclose its donor list until the end of January, one month after the reporting quarter ends.

Mr. Gibbs emphasized in an interview that he left the Kerry campaign several weeks ago, after a staff shake-up that left many embittered.


I read it then. I read a lot about the incident. It's a bogus rumor, and no one has been able to link Gibbs to the ad.





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MannyGoldstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 10:53 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. 'Its spokesman, Robert Gibbs...'
Did Gibbs resign upon finding out that his group attacked a Democrat and boosted Bush?
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 11:01 AM
Response to Reply #17
35. That is not proof he had anything to do with the ad. n/t
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Ignis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 11:41 AM
Response to Reply #35
39. Oh, now that is superb back-pedaling!
I mean, I disagree with you completely, but it's a great show!

:popcorn:
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 11:59 AM
Response to Reply #39
45. No, Gibbs taking a new job as the spokesman for a company
does not mean that he was involved in producing the ad. It's a preposterous stretch.


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Ignis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 12:08 PM
Response to Reply #45
46. Bin Laden's driver didn't kill anyone, but we charged him with terrorism.
Are you also going to argue that Mr. Gibbs isn't part of the Obama administration, since he's only the spokesperson there, too?

C'mon. :eyes: Really?
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 01:09 PM
Response to Reply #46
50. Are you going to argue that
Gibbs is responsible for firing Shirley Sherrod?



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Ignis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 01:16 PM
Response to Reply #50
52. Er, no. Why would I? That's quite a non sequitur.
:freak:
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Ignis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 05:04 PM
Response to Reply #45
56. Also, his chef.
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girl gone mad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 11:58 AM
Response to Reply #35
43. "Don't believe your lying eyes!"
:rofl:
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 07:33 PM
Response to Reply #15
60. He condoned the ad. Give it up. Your hero is a slime
Rove impersonator and doesn't belong in the position he has or even in this party. There is reams of proof of his role in that filthy smear supporting Bush against Dean. Go read some of madfloridian's excellent research on this topic.

Grayson is right, he needs to be fired and from now on anyone who tries to defend this Rove-wanna-be slimer of Democrats, can expect to get the same kind of respect for their opinions that he will get. What a sad reflection he is on this WH.

I hope they listen to Grayson and get rid of him as fast as they can before they lose us the Novmember election.
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fogonthelake Donating Member (198 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 05:25 AM
Response to Reply #13
23. Thanks for the link.
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Autumn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 07:36 AM
Response to Reply #13
29. No, that's a very easy
choice to make. NY Times
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moksha Donating Member (345 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 07:41 AM
Response to Reply #13
31. I'll go with NY Times
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NorthCarolina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 09:01 AM
Response to Reply #13
33. The smart money would be on the NYT. eom
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Cali_Democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 11:03 PM
Response to Original message
18. Doesn't matter at all....Dean wasn't a viable presidential candidate
It was his own 'Dean Scream' that did him in, not Robert Gibbs.
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MannyGoldstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 11:08 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. Praising Bush is cool?
Really?
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Cali_Democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 11:46 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. When did I say praising Bush is cool?
Apparently you seem to think putting words in my mouth is just dandy.

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MannyGoldstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 07:12 AM
Response to Reply #20
28. You're stating that Gibbs' commercial is OK
And Gibbs' commercial praises Bush.

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Cali_Democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 11:40 PM
Response to Reply #28
85. When did I say Gibbs' commerical was ok?
Edited on Thu Aug-12-10 11:40 PM by Cali_Democrat
Link?
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Jakes Progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-13-10 03:12 AM
Response to Reply #85
89. Implied when you said that it didn't matter that Gibbs did the ad.
Of course you can always turn around. If you want to say that your post had nothing to do with the ad, then you can always feel free to tell us what you think of a Democrat praising bush to attack another Democrat. That is what the OP was about. So how do you feel about a Democrat who does that?
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Cali_Democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-13-10 10:56 AM
Response to Reply #89
93. I meant that it didn't matter in terms of Dean's chances to be President
Read my post again. I never said the ad was OK.

This place just loves putting words into peoples mouths. :eyes:
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Jakes Progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-13-10 04:07 PM
Response to Reply #93
94. Then your post was what didn't matter.
They were your words. You made them in response to the OP which was about Gibb's rovian tactics. You said it didn't matter. The OP discussed the tactic. You said it didn't matter at all. If you meant that it didn't affect the outcome ot the election, that is what you should have said. Read your own post again.

Don't accuse others of putting words in your mouth when you are the one who used the words. If you are sloppy in expressing yourself, don't blame people for not reading your mind. This place didn't put the words in your post - you did. Own up to your own words. It's the mature thing to do.

Now. As for the OP. You know the thing your replied to but now say you were not discussing. How do you feel about the PR head for Obama being a person who praised george bush's abilities over another Democratic candidate? Is that something else that "doesn't matter"?
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Cali_Democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-14-10 12:56 PM
Response to Reply #94
96. The ad proved to be meaningless at the end of the day
Edited on Sat Aug-14-10 01:01 PM by Cali_Democrat
When I said it was his own scream that did him in I was obviously referring to his chances to become President. That was my point and your poutrage against me doesn't change that.

Dean dug his own grave with his voracious scream. Blame Dean, not Gibbs.

I never said the ad was OK and I never said praising Bush is cool. Claiming I said that is in fact putting words in my mouth.

Of course I meant it didn't affect the outcome of the election.

Read my post again.

Don't say that I want you to read my mind. Don't respond to my post if you're unclear about what I was saying. Simple as that.
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Jakes Progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-14-10 04:41 PM
Response to Reply #96
97. How far can you miss the point?
How many twists and turns will you toss out just to avoid fessing up to a stupid post?

The point of the OP wasn't that Dean lost the primary. (Interesting that you buy the "voracious scream" meme of the republicans. Big fan of right wing talking points, are you? Or just gullible for the MSM line?) The point of the OP was that Gibbs praised bush to attack Dean. You seem to have missed the whole point of the OP. You seem to have your own agenda that has nothing to do with what anyone writes. So the OP discusses Gibbs and his praise of bush. You say it doesn't matter. Then you want to say that you "obviously" meant something other than what you wrote. (Oh, and I love that you fall back on that term that people here use when they have no real argument - poutrage. Think about it. i bet you could work in pony and some other word that you might consider demeaning, like liberal.)

Still with all that you miss the point of the OP. The OP wasn't about Dean winning or losing the primary. It was about Obama using a man like Gibbs who is so vile that he would attack another Democrat by praising bush. Read your own post again. The point - how many times do you need it spelled out - was that the ad wasn't meaningless. The meaning is in the character of the man who would do that kind of ad. So when you dismiss the ad as meaningless, you reduce all public actions to their efficacy in winning. Morality and decency then are meaningless - only whether you win or lose. Really. You are digging yourself a hole here.

Don't say that you don't want me to read your mind if you want to post that says something and then say you meant something else. I wasn't unclear about your post. it was your writing (and thought process) that was unclear. Simple as that. (Please note from the thread that I am not the only one that couldn't divine what you meant to say but didn't. )
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Cali_Democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-14-10 04:57 PM
Response to Reply #97
98. I know what I heard
Edited on Sat Aug-14-10 05:05 PM by Cali_Democrat
That was some scream.

YEEEAAARGHH!!!!!


BTW....you're the one that's missing the point. Unless you provide links to me saying praising Bush is cool or Gibbs' ad is OK, I can say that you're pretty much full of it.

I don't want you to read my mind, I want you to actually read my posts. The ad was unbecoming, but it turned out to be meaningless.

:hi:
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Jakes Progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-14-10 10:34 PM
Response to Reply #98
100. What the hell world do you live in?
You still obstinately refuse to admit that your post was poorly expressed and completely off point. No one. Repeat. No one but you are trying to talk about Dean's celebratory yell. No one. You are obsessed with it. That is not the point of the thread. No where does the OP discuss that bit of MSM drama. You reply to a post about what a rovian ass Obama's PR guy is by dragging up something that wasn't discussed.

I am full of many things, but not of myself. But you obviously are as evidence by your desperate need to deny writing a stupid post. If you meant it as you wrote it, you said that the ad wasn't a big deal. If you meant it as you have revised your point, then the post has nothing to do with the OP, nothing to do with the concept of gibbs as ass. So you are either wrong or irrelevant. Of course there is the distinct probability that you are both.

What is it with you and Dean?
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Cali_Democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-15-10 01:06 AM
Response to Reply #100
105. And it was Dean's 'celebratory' yell that did him in, not Robert Gibbs.
Edited on Sun Aug-15-10 01:09 AM by Cali_Democrat
YEEAAARRRGGHHH!!!!


....and boom goes the candidacy. Presidential material? Yea right.


I never said the ad wasn't a big deal. I said it didn't matter because of one very loud scream....


YEEEAAARGHH!!!!!.


:hi:
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Jakes Progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-15-10 03:48 PM
Response to Reply #105
107. Again. Missing the whole point of the OP. Again. And again.
So I guess you were not and are not a Dean supporter. If a five second yell on camera is enough to disqualify him as a presidential material, you have very strange qualifications for a leader. No yelling. How about laughing? A tear? Maybe a belch would kill anyone's qualifications? But again, you avoid the fact that the OP wasn't about the campaign or about Dean's qualifications. It was about gibbs and his behavior. But every time I point this out, you ignore that reality for your fantasies about Dean. He really does fascinate you, doesn't he?

I have seen the things you do in your posts before. I spent a few years of my career working with 8th grade writers. A common problem with their writing was that they were so into themselves that they had a hard time writing so that an audience would understand their point. They knew what they were thinking and they felt that their words were golden and needed no change. It was only with extensive training in revision and editing skills that they would come to see that other people don't read their words the way they think them, that it is their job to craft their sentences so that they actually communicated. Sometimes it took reflection and time for them to see their problem. That is something the split-second posting that happens in a forum doesn't always make easy. So give it a few days and think about it. Maybe try a reading group to help you see your error.

Or of course, you may be one of those like the kids who believe that the audience was always at fault for the confusion that their writing creates. They would rather die than admit that their words were anything other than perfect, that the problem might lie with them instead of the masses who read their words with confusion. So since I wouldn't want you to die, we can do it this way. I can see you have a need to have the last word here, that this is very, very important to you. So out of my concern for the emotional well-being of a fellow DU'er I will let you reply with whatever drivel you want to this post and then you can walk away, thumping your chest with the enormous victory that you won. Yeah. You won. Everyone but you is incapable of understanding you.

Again. I would suggest a good writing program, one that lets you hear feedback from other writers. It is a very important part of growing as a writer. Good luck and keep helping to defeat republicans.
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Cali_Democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-15-10 07:13 PM
Response to Reply #107
108. You just posted a whole bunch of nothing
Your posts really make me giggle...as if typing a whole bunch of nothing will make you get your 'point' across. LOL.

But please keep posting a bunch of nothing because it's very amusing.

BTW...candidates running for President have to act Presidential. Dean obviously was not and his 'Dean Scream' proved it. That's why he tanked immediately after.

He never tanked because of Gibbs. That's why Gibbs' commercial was meaningless at the end of the day.

:hi:




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LostinVA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 05:45 AM
Response to Reply #18
24. Except there WAS no "Dean Scream," nwhich I'm sure you now
It didn't exist.

And, Dr. Dean was very viable before he was submarined.
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bornskeptic Donating Member (951 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 05:55 PM
Response to Reply #24
59. True. There was no Dean Scream and no Gibbs commercial.
So why does this thread exist?
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Cali_Democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 11:41 PM
Response to Reply #24
86. Rule #1 in politics....
Never give the mediawhores anything to run with.

Dean failed to follow rule #1.

Not. Presidential. Material.
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newspeak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-16-10 02:59 PM
Response to Reply #86
115. it doesn't matter if you have anything to run with
the media can make "mountains out of mole hills" and stories out of thin air. And I suppose if Dean used a calm low voice over an enthusiastic crowd, the media would have said he has no "balls", not like *, someone you'd really like to have a beer with. See, he can't even get his message across in the crowd because he has no strength, no leadership. The media can turn a moment into anything they want.

That's why the people in this country will never get a president who will actually fight for them, because the media will bring them down in a heartbeat.
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suzie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-15-10 12:46 AM
Response to Reply #24
104. Actually, he wasn't. His support was very thin and he was losing momentum.
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Sebastian Doyle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 11:13 AM
Response to Reply #18
36. Bullshit.
The "scream" was whore media manipulated meaningless nonsense. The damage was done to Dean by the DLC funded fear campaign, began by Gibbs hateful slanderous ad.

Fuck Bobby BeeGee for giving us four more years of the Chimp. That weak pathetic PNAC agenda voting Kerry never had a chance to beat Bush. Dean would have slaughtered him. And that's exactly why the DLC had to prevent him from being the nominee, because they - especially Will Marshall - were complicit in the PNAC agenda.
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Dinger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-13-10 09:31 AM
Response to Reply #36
92. You Gotta Be Kidding Me . .
What happened???
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-15-10 08:20 PM
Response to Reply #36
113. Sorry, Sebastian but Dean's poor debate performances and uneven townhall meetings in Iowa
Edited on Sun Aug-15-10 08:21 PM by blm
are what took his numbers down and that was the reality of the Iowa campaign since November.

Dean couldn't take control of the aftermath of the scream and that was nothing compared to what BushInc would have caused to be manipulated against him. BTW...If Biden-Lugar version of the IWR passed instead of the one that did, would Dean be a PNAC agenda supporter?

Uh...no. His position was not far different from Kerry who also preferred Biden-Lugar - it was a better written resolution. It was NOT the anti=war position, and Kerry's vote for IWR was not a prowar position. In fact, Kerry spoke publicly against any decision for war, siding with the weapon inspectors who reported that military force would not be needed based on their findings.

Rove controlled how the corpmedia framed the positions of the Dems. Too many fell for the EASY labeling.
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Ignis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 11:42 AM
Response to Reply #18
40. So it "doesn't matter at all" if Democrats laud Bush over other Democrats?
:crazy:
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-15-10 08:06 PM
Response to Reply #18
110. BULLSHIT! The "Scream" was MSM BULLSHIT!
The MSM manipulated the volume.
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newspeak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-16-10 02:53 PM
Response to Reply #18
114. no it was a very willing media that did him in
Dean was filmed before a very enthusiastic crowd. There was a lot of enthusiasm-and Dean shouted over the crowd. Then the media, on almost every damn network were calling it the "Dean Scream", and how he was screaming and he may have emotional issues. They played it to the hilt. It reminded me of a hit done on McCain by Bush, how McCain had been a POW and he may not be mentally fit to hold the position.

I remember very well the media playing up some piece of shite-"much ado about nothing."
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 05:10 AM
Response to Original message
22. manny the uniter strikes again. What a surprise. nt
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LostinVA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 05:45 AM
Response to Reply #22
25. That sarcasm should be directed at Gibbs etal
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fogonthelake Donating Member (198 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 08:49 AM
Response to Reply #25
32. yes, it should.
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 07:40 PM
Response to Reply #22
62. Manny is responsible for that Rovian ad?
Gibbs is such a uniter though, you must admit!

Grayson is right, he needs to be fired, quickly or he will help Republicans in November, which is getting to be a habit with him. I hope the President does the right thing.
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killbotfactory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 10:59 AM
Response to Original message
34. I was very offended by that six years ago
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Phx_Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 11:59 AM
Response to Original message
44. Interesting. I didn't realize that Howard Dean was ever President,
or that he signed bills giving us HCR, financial reform, extended Federal benefits to gay partners, ended the Iraq war, SCHIP program, stem cell research, or any of the MANY things that President Obama has done for his party and the county, but is vilified by his own party for.

Apples and peanuts.

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Aramchek Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 12:10 PM
Response to Original message
47. but guess what? Gibbs still works in the White House, and you still don't.
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 01:15 PM
Response to Original message
51. It's inside politics for grown-ups gratuitously used by the OP to fuel division. nt
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MannyGoldstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 01:40 PM
Response to Reply #51
54. Can you point to any other ad by a "Democrat" that praises Bush?
I think it's pretty extraordinary.
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 10:03 PM
Response to Reply #54
70. I have been told that this is standard procedure for Democrats.
I have asked also, several times actually, for an example of any other respected Democrat who engaged in this kind of smear job, the worst I've seen, of another Democrat.

I haven't received an answer either. I even searched for a Willy Horton type ad like this aimed at a Democrat by other Democrats, and so far I have not found anything like this.

Gibbs is a divider and at this point he will continue to be a thorn in this president's side. Grayson is right, he needs to be replaced, and fast. We have an election coming up and the last thing Democrats need is someone like this helping Republicans to divide this party.
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laughingliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 01:43 PM
Response to Original message
55. K & R nt
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CBR Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 05:46 PM
Response to Original message
58. 3AM ad... nt
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-15-10 01:01 PM
Response to Reply #58
106. That's exactly what this is.
It's no different than HClinton's 3:00 A.M. ad, but I suspect the OP was fine with that (reads hypocrisy). The only difference is that HClinton flat-out said in several interviews that she and McCain passed the CIC threshold but Pres Obama only had a speech. Example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o10lQUm5gKM&p=CBF031C829...
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TheKentuckian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-16-10 03:45 PM
Response to Reply #106
116. 3 AM was cancerous as well. Hilary stated that the potential nominee was not fit to be CiC
Potentially a scuttling accusation from ones own party. Especially for a Democrat. Extremely poor form.
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CTLawGuy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 09:39 PM
Response to Original message
63. Since we are reaching back to the past
Edited on Thu Aug-12-10 09:42 PM by CTLawGuy
here's one about your avatar

http://www.slate.com/id/2086952

...

Reality check: Dean had no choice but to accept such a bill <the VT civil unions bill>. In December 1999, the Vermont Supreme Court ruled that Vermont was "constitutionally required to extend to same-sex couples the common benefits and protections that flow from marriage under Vermont law." The court instructed the legislature to grant gays "inclusion within the marriage laws themselves or a parallel 'domestic partnership' or some equivalent statutory alternative."

Given that choice, Dean took the more conservative option. According to the Associated Press, Vermont's lieutenant governor and House speaker supported gay marriage, but Dean didn't. Gay marriage "makes me uncomfortable, the same as anybody else," Dean said at the time. He did encourage the legislature to pass a civil unions bill. But the alternative he averted was legalizing gay marriage, not preventing gay domestic partnerships."

--------------------------------------------

How does it feel to have a "homophobe" for an avatar?
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ibegurpard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 09:41 PM
Response to Reply #63
64. how does it feel to have one for a president?
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CTLawGuy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 09:47 PM
Response to Reply #64
65. I'm not the one who is Mr. Purist
Edited on Thu Aug-12-10 09:49 PM by CTLawGuy
If you think Obama is a homophobe, then so is Howard Dean. Can't have it both ways. Condemn Obama, condemn Dean.
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ibegurpard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 09:50 PM
Response to Reply #65
66. Neither am I
I'm gay and the marriage issue ranks pretty low on my list of things to be upset with this administration and congress about.
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CTLawGuy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 09:53 PM
Response to Reply #66
67. but you'd agree
that if we dislike Obama because he is against gay marriage, then we'd have to dislike Howard Dean also for saying it "makes him uncomfortable."
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POAS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 09:55 PM
Response to Reply #66
69. Just an observation
but for having the issue low on your priority list you seem quick to jump in to respond to a post addressed to another's post.

Now I hafta go for :popcorn:
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ibegurpard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 10:04 PM
Response to Reply #69
71. you're mistaken
My jumping in was to address an attempt to try to play "gotcha" to discredit Howard Dean...who I agree with on many issues.
And who, if he did an about-face on many issues that I DO care about more than this one, I would then stop supporting.
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POAS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 11:01 PM
Response to Reply #71
83. So your the Marines coming to rescue the thread
is that it?

Well done Major Burns.
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ibegurpard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 11:02 PM
Response to Reply #83
84. not really
something pissed me off and I responded
I'm assuming that's your excuse as well?
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POAS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-13-10 07:10 AM
Response to Reply #84
91. Not really
I was never pissed off, just enjoy watching a good argument which Manny and CT might have been headed towards and you seemed to be like the kid in the movie theater that won't shut up and let others enjoy the movie.

Seems this movie is about over though so maybe you can go interrupt another one now.

Have a pleasant weekend.
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dionysus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-14-10 11:09 PM
Response to Reply #83
102. !
:thumbsup:
:spray:
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jefferson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 10:25 PM
Response to Reply #63
76. ZING!
Edited on Thu Aug-12-10 10:25 PM by jefferson_dem
That one's gonna leave a mark.
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CTLawGuy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 10:30 PM
Response to Reply #76
78. thanks to the combined power
of denial and shameless double standards, it won't do much damage.
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ibegurpard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 10:34 PM
Response to Reply #78
79. LOL
so someone admits they're not a "purist" and they have double standards...the knots you guys tie yourselves into.
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CTLawGuy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 10:36 PM
Response to Reply #79
81. I didn't say I had double standards
I think neither Obama or Dean are homophobes, although I favor gay marriage, unlike either of them.
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Radical Activist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 10:14 PM
Response to Original message
72. "The biggest lie that people like me tell people like you during the election season is
If you vote for me, Ill solve all your problems. The truth is that the power to change this country is in your hands, not mine.
-Howard Dean

Obama said the same thing with more eloquence. So why did so many people forget those words? Why do so many people think their only job is to sit back, relax and complain when Obama doesn't do it for them? Why are disappointments met with whining about Obama instead of calls to pressure the Senate roadblock?


"It will not be easy. It will require struggle and sacrifice. There will setbacks and we will make mistakes. And that is why we need all the help we can get. So tonight I want to speak directly to all those Americans who have yet to join this movement but still hunger for change - we need you. We need you to stand with us, and work with us, and help us prove that together, ordinary people can still do extraordinary things.

...You see, the challenges we face will not be solved with one meeting in one night. Change will not come if we wait for some other person or some other time. We are the ones we've been waiting for."
-Barack Obama
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POAS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 10:17 PM
Response to Reply #72
73. Nice, very nice indeed. n/t
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SeattleGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 10:23 PM
Response to Reply #72
74. Well said, RA. n/t
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Radical Activist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-13-10 02:47 AM
Response to Reply #74
87. I think I'll make this its own post.
thanks.
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BklnDem75 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 10:24 PM
Response to Original message
75. Even if it was true, so what?
Dirty campaign tactics are new to you?

Here's Hillary saying both she and McCain were better for foreign policy than Obama:


http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-502443_162-3896372-502443.h...


Once again, so what? Should we get rid of her too?
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ibegurpard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 10:26 PM
Response to Reply #75
77. "should we get rid of her too?"
well, yeah...I supported Obama because the way he is governing is exactly what I expected from Hillary.
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BklnDem75 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 10:37 PM
Response to Reply #77
82. Luckily
Your opinion isn't the only one that counts.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-13-10 03:59 AM
Response to Original message
90. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
KakistocracyHater Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-13-10 09:34 PM
Response to Original message
95. Another faux Dem, like so MANY Neo-Cons
they speak the same language, use the same words.........I'm getting really tired of them.
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zulchzulu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-14-10 05:19 PM
Response to Original message
99. Political ads should never be effective or make you doubt the opponent...
...in PURIST UTOPIA!

It was an OK ad that pushed doubt into the campaign. Dean's ads did the same thing to other candidates.

It's called politics, ferchrissakes.


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dionysus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-14-10 11:08 PM
Response to Original message
101. manny, if i didn't know better i'd say you were trying to divide people.
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-15-10 08:04 PM
Response to Original message
109. More proof that Gibbs is a fucking douchbag.
Edited on Sun Aug-15-10 08:04 PM by Odin2005
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