America, whose side are you on?

[flpoljunkie]

The side of those who believe in regulated capitalism or those who believe in crony capitalism and 'trickle down'--aka Republicans?

You must choose in November.

[Oregone]

1. Only two sides?

Some believe capitalism cannot be regulated for any useful amount of time


Some believe the net gain in wealth among the working class averaged over a boom/bust cycle has no sane relation to the amount of wealth their labor produced over that time. Is there ever a real gain, or merely a growing burden of debt on the working class and growing gap between the classes?


But Im glad we've boiled it down to a false dichotomy of two worthless, unfavorable choices

[flpoljunkie]

2. Two parties, two sides. Your choice.

[undergroundpanther]

7. Fuck the false simplistic, binary

choices the ones who control people "allow" us to pick from.
The binary has merged to the point ,no party has the guts or character to stand up against corruption,and fight for what people really need to thrive and be well. Like help dealing with or overcoming this human condition and protection from abusers of power that exploit people who are innocent,wounded, suffer or who do not understand the culture they were born into is abusive and the cultural demands that we deny it it abusive.

[flpoljunkie]

8. So, if there's no perfect choice, you're not going to vote.

[Oregone]

10. Thanks for the tip

[undergroundpanther]

23. i hold my nose and vote for the lesser appearing evil

[Jennicut]

4. As of right now, only two parties have power.

The choices may be worthless to you but that is the reality.

[Oregone]

11. And if you accept that choice, you'll never change it

If you accept the Democrats always represent some flavor of capitalism (which implies they favor private enterprise making profit off of delivering goods and exploiting labor *in a "regulated" manner) then you will never be able to effectively argue for change. Accepting this means you would never really want to, or have the grounds to. Fuck that dichotomy.

[Jennicut]

12. I do tend to agree with you on that. However, I am not so sure I want to

not vote for Dems to make a point to hopefully wait for a huge revolution to happen while I sit through Rethugs controlling Congress once again. See what I am saying? I am not one of the people who think Dems and Rethugs are all the same. There are SOME differences. Rethugs would never vote to extend unemployment benefits. I doubt that there ever will be some kind of overhaul/overthrow of the current system until both parties break apart. It has happened in our past but currently....I don't see it. Too much power and money in the current system.

[Oregone]

16. Im not advocating not voting for Dems

Im saying don't do it as an acceptance of "regulated capitalism" to reinforce "regulated capitalism". Framing the debate in this manner means that you really cannot change from capitalism into anything else (be it mixed or collective co-ops, or whatever). If you frame Democrats as the "regulated Capitalism" choice, it sure makes a Democratic forum a cold place to be for someone done with capitalism completely. It sure makes any advocation for another system a direct advocation against ALL parties that represent capitalism (Democrats included). There used to be a time when Democrats represented socialistic values and put forth socialized services for the people (effectively cutting private enterprise out of the picture). That was a time when we had presidents advocate government solutions, for things such as health care, instead of private solutions (like the current reform). Its not a bad place to go back to, but when this framing is finished, that bridge is burnt.

[jefferson_dem]

6. So you don't see this as a distinction with a major league difference?

The Democratic Party is as "worthless, unfavorable" as the Repug Party? Wow.

[Oregone]

9. Not really in this context regarding capitalism

Cocoon capitalism or corporatism.....well, the market will decide anyway. It doesn't want to always be unfettered. That wouldn't allow wealth to build up, to be sucked away after a corrupt boom goes pop. People want to pretend they are something different; its just two distinct phases of the same thing, and that thing wishes to alternate anyway for the maximum amount of thievery.

Advocating political change that reinforces the cycles the market desires merely plays into the overall scam of capitalism, and enables it to ultimately keep on trucking, running over the working class in the process. We need a game change here, not just a rearrangement of the deck chairs.

[flpoljunkie]

13. And, how do you plan to affect that 'game change?'

And, from Canada, no less?

[Oregone]

17. Through education of the base

There was a time when the Democrats were not the party of some flavor of capitalism, but rather developing government solutions for the people (that stand today as favorable institutions). The game has already changed, and can potentially change back if you let it, and help it. By accepting a vote for Democrats is a de facto reinforcement of capitalism (regulated), you are merely working against changing that game and preserving the status quo system.

[flpoljunkie]

18. The choice in November is between Democrats and Republicans, not idealized Democrats.

We can work toward public financing of their campaigns--which is the most important thing we can do to try and effect change.

To support the Fair Elections Now Act.

https://secure3.convio.net/change/site/Advocacy?cmd=display&page=UserAction&id=629

[Oregone]

19. Capitalists vs capitalists

And any vote is a de facto reinforcement of capitalism?

Fuck that. Change the party, you change the choice.

Democrats were not always merely just another party of capitalism. They've changed once, and can change again

[flpoljunkie]

20. No socialists on the ballot, altho my favorite Dem is the realist 'socialist' Dem Bernie Sanders.

[Oregone]

21. As long as you are content with choosing capitalists, there never will be

Somehow you've equated voting Democratic the same as voting for capitalists; I guess its some sort of rule that is not to be challenged

[flpoljunkie]

22. My intent was to remind voters there is a difference between R's and D's. If you think otherwise,

so be it.

[undergroundpanther]

3. I am on the side of

the poor,the scapegoated,the different,people who CARE about other's well being,and the GBLT,The counterculture,the tribes,the communities trying to be free,the people who refuse to go along with the way things have been,how they are now.I stand with the survivors of abuse ,trauma,and totalitarian domination who fight to stop any types of tyranny over others be it in a home or an entire country.I am for the mentally ill,their rights to live and be..I am on the side of the NON,greedy,NON-psychopaths,NON authoritarians and NON-domination based structures/personalities.I am for people that respect those who respect others that are worthy as in who they are on the inside, of respect.I am for the artists with a creative heart that does not let greed or political shit taint their art.I am for brave spiritual seekers facing the unknown,the Gnostic's who want to know,who fight the stifling popular paradigms in science or any other 'school' of thought.I'm for the whistle-blowers, free thinkers,the challengers,rebels and monkey wrenchers of this faceless machine chewing us up alive.I am for equality and sharing of wealth with others without any bribes,expectations of the receiver,coercion,conversion to a religion or demand for conformity to a sick abusive culture .I am for freedom of being you without bullying or abuse be it individual;political, financial,or whatever other forms it has.I am for exposing and crushing the "invisible hands" that cause havoc in this world. I am for ending the human made,hierarchy and human tolerated, causes of our suffering and destruction of the earth.I HATE the causers of human made abuse,dis-empowering distress and untold suffering,destroying,limiting, and silencing of billions of lives and dreams by the tyrannical,toxic,arrogant and cruel among us.I am not for any capitalist,at all.I hate all forms of abuse of power,abuse of resources and capitalism is based on resources abuse, it is abuse filled just like the sickening social structures and ways of this country.I am against all abusers of power, exploiters of vulnerability and all toxic personalities/people/organizations/isms/power structures. I am anti bully/authoritarian.

[flpoljunkie]

5. That's all well and good. But you must make a choice in November.

[Jennicut]

14. Some will chose to make no choice or a 3rd party choice.

I chose to keep Repubs out of power, always.

[flpoljunkie]

15. Keeping Republicans out of power is paramount.