Obama is not FDR

[arcadian]

Quit trying to tie his boat onto to FDR's legacy.

[NJmaverick]

1. Your post reminded me of this passage

An opinion is a judgment based on facts, an honest attempt to draw a reasonable conclusion from factual evidence. (For example, we know that millions of people go without proper medical care, and so you form the opinion that the country should institute national health insurance even though it would cost billions of dollars.) An opinion is potentially changeable--depending on how the evidence is interpreted. By themselves, opinions have little power to convince. You must always let your reader know what your evidence is and how it led you to arrive at your opinion.
(Adapted from: Fowler, H. Ramsey. The Little, Brown Handbook. Boston: Little, Brown, 1986.)

[Name removed]

3. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[AtomicKitten]

22. *

[DevonRex]

32. Aww.

Cute kitty tongue!!! :hi:

[Soylent Brice]

35. LOL

[RaleighNCDUer]

10. Nice little snippet -

so, are you suggesting that "Obama is not FDR" is not a fact?

[NJmaverick]

13. No, it's an opinion

and as the passage said, an opinion with out the supporting facts has little power to persuade

[tekisui]

39. Here is just one supporting fact:

President Barack Obama





FDR



It is my opinion, based on the fact presented , that Obama is not FDR.

[Name removed]

45. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[NJmaverick]

49. If he meant the comparison literally, how do explain the comments

about tying Obama's boat to the FDR legacy? That statement only makes sense if the "Obama is not FDR" was meant figuratively.

[RaleighNCDUer]

66. As FDR died several years before Obama was born, I think it is

pretty clear to rational people that Obama is not FDR.

And, anyone looking at Obama's policies and FDR's policies can clearly see that those are not the same, either.

So, what chu talkin about, Willis?

[mix]

2. Turn the page, move on, history has no lessons for us. nt

[dflprincess]

4. Or use FDR's mistakes or shortcomings to justify Obama's. n/t

[tekisui]

9. When I saw Obama supporters point to Japanese Internment

during WWII as justification for Obama's indefinite detentions, I was appalled.

[Maat]

18. Well, both policies are disgusting and a complete dump on the Constitution.

When this law school graduate watched Obama stand up and attempt to justify "prolonged detention," I stood up, walked out the door, and became an 'independent' (effectively disenrolling from the Democratic Party). Nothing justifies holding anyone for a significant period of time without access to a court hearing (i.e. beyond a few days).

[dflprincess]

43. Exactly

and I'd like to think we'd learned from the obscene mistakes of the past and not use them as an excuse for current atrocities. I would expect a former professor of Constitutional law to have more respect for that document.

[Maat]

84. Me, too (n/t).

[MadHound]

5. I think that desperation is starting to set in among certain quarters

I think that the truth of Obama's actions not living up to his words is starting to radically effect some people, and is being expressed in rather odd ways, like this latest concerted attempt to link Obama and FDR. Obama has a long way to be like Teddy Roosevelt, much less FDR.

[treestar]

79. FDR's actions were no where near his words

Quoted multiple times in this thread.

The whole concept is to get what progress can be gotten out of the society at the time.

[MadHound]

83. You're right, FDR's actions weren't near his words,

However he did a hell of a lot better job of actions meeting words than Obama has done. As far as getting what progress out of the society at the time, well frankly I have two words for you, public option. The majority of people were in favor of it, there was enough Democratic power in Congress to do it, and Obama and the Democrats failed to deliver it. This has been an ongoing theme of the Obama administration.

Get back to me concerning Obama's likeness to FDR when he pushes something through that is comparable to Social Security or Unemployment Insurance. Until then, this whole concept of Obama being comparable to FDR is so much bullshit.

[treestar]

91. There was not enough Democratic power in Congress to get

the public option, or we'd have it. At that point, Brown had been elected. It was a miracle we got what we did.

The depression was so bad that FDR certainly had more ability to get Congress to go along with things. The current recession is nothing like the Depression was. If it were that bad, Congress would be forced to do things; the teabaggers and right would not have power with their anti-government crap at such a time as the great Depression.

[Exilednight]

113. I'm calling bullshit on this one. Obama could of gotten the public option through if ......

he didn't waste so much damn time trying to sway republic votes. Obama had the 51 votes needed for reconciliation when he first took office, but he wanted to look bipartisan and dragged his feet. In the end he did end up using reconciliation for a crap bill, but it wouldn't have been crap if he didn't drag his feet for so damn long.

[Hutzpa]

103. What about the one linking Obama to Nixon.

ha! I had to check my browser 4 times just to be certain I am actually reading DU.

That one beats the cake.

[rateyes]

6. I knew FDR. FDR was a friend of mine. Mr. Obama...

you are no FDR.


Not even close.

[NJmaverick]

How old are you?

If you were FDR's friend and he died over 65 years ago...

[rateyes]

I see you don't remember Lloyd Bentson of TX

and his debate with Dan Quayle.

In fact, FDR was a friend of a friend of mine whose father ran the hotel in Warm Springs, GA where FDR came to bathe to find relief from the symptoms of polio. My friend worked on FDR's at the "Little White House." My friend, had he lived, would be over 100 today. I didn't know FDR. I was making a joke.

[avaistheone1]

34. * Snap

[Tarheel_Dem]

41. I see you don't remember punctuation ("....."). When you quote people, it's

nice to give them the credit, e.g., "quotes".

[dflprincess]

46. Rateyes was paraphrasing not quoting directly

Lloyd Bentsen's actual quote was "Senator, I served with Jack Kennedy, I knew Jack Kennedy, Jack Kennedy was a friend of mine. Senator, you're no Jack Kennedy."

It was in response to Quayle saying "I have as much experience in the Congress as Jack Kennedy did when he sought the presidency..."

[rateyes]

107. I wasn't quoting.

[phleshdef]

12. Yea, FDR wouldn't stand for this anti-lynching law bullshit!

[MissDeeds]

59. Good one

That was priceless!

:hi:

[DrToast]

7. Of course not. FDR is dead!

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

8. I like Obama better.

[mix]

16. That's fine, but FDR's impact can't be underestimated, as it has been fashionable to do

since the Reagan years. Without the New Deal reforms, the American middle class would not have grown and flourished, the economic prosperity of the 20th century would not have happened and we would have had a harder time defeating the Nazis.

He had his faults, particularly the internment of Japanese-Americans, but his structural and generational effects on the American economy and society have been monumental.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

20. Same with Obama.

Only moreso.

[mix]

24. Obama has not been president long enough to know if he will have the same structural effect as FDR.

Obviously as the first African-American president Obama's legacy in this area is enormous and important.

I expect Obama's third year in office to be his most interesting, so we'll see if his impact in other areas will be as lasting as the New Deal's reforms were.

[ProSense]

31. We are talking about accomplishments, actions.

Funny, how it's okay to use the accomplishments of past Presidents to denigrate the current President, even on ideological terms (comparing him to Nixon), but it's not okay to acknowledge that his accomplishments are in line with those of FDR. These comparisons have been going on since the President took office.

As for structural effect, Obama's policies will have an impact. It remains to be seen whether or not they are positive, but there is also room for improvement, as there was with Social Security.

As for Nixon, his HMO's led to the problem we have now.

[Mimosa]

92. Are you serious? or drinking?

Mix wrote: "Without the New Deal reforms, the American middle class would not have grown and flourished, the economic prosperity of the 20th century would not have happened and we would have had a harder time defeating the Nazis.

He had his faults, particularly the internment of Japanese-Americans, but his structural and generational effects on the American economy and society have been monumental."

What has Obama done which remotely matches the New Deal or even approaches it?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

100. Thanks for illustrating my point.

[phleshdef]

26. The point isn't the underestimation of FDRs legacy. Its the worship of the mythic FDR as a means...

...to trash the current President. A lot of the same people who are harsh critics of the current President and the things he has managed to get done so far prop up FDR as what they would rather see in a President. But those same people ignore how weak some of FDRs centerpiece programs were when they started out (kinda like healthcare reform is now) or they totally ignore the things FDR was horribly wrong on (lynchings, Japanese internment camps) while blasting the current administration for generally lesser offenses. These are also many of the same people that are complaining about the pace of DADT repeal while ignoring FDRs complete lack of motivation to desegregate the military in a timely fashion.

The real point is, these guys were/are both human beings who are/were brilliant leaders, but still human beings nonetheless. If you are going to bash Obama and then use this other President as a symbol of why Obama is failing you, then you are setting yourself up to face all the reasons this other President should have failed you too. Its not about underestimating FDR, its about the blaring double standard when you put FDR up on a pedestal while bashing the Obama administration for doing the same kinds of things or doing some things that aren't nearly as bad.

[mix]

33. I see the FDR-Obama comparisons differently.

The country and world are undergoing very similar social, economic and political crises, mainly due to global meltdown of the capitalist system. Most progressive economists and historians are attuned to the similarities between the 1920s and 30s and today's calamities. Even Obama's stimulus program was Keynesian, despite its emphasis on private contracts.

Obama is an important president, but he is not anywhere near FDR in terms of how the latter fundamentally changed the American economy and class structure.

[ProSense]

36. "he is not anywhere near FDR in terms of how the latter fundamentally changed

the American economy and class structure."

You don't know that. Health care reform, when medical costs are bankrupting millions of Americans, is a huge factor.

Other reforms, credit card, student loan, finanical, will also have a huge impact. There is also potential in the climate/energy bill.

[phleshdef]

44. Like FDR, Obama's policies thus far don't offer instant gratification to all concerned parties.

These are long view policies that take awhile for impact and will need tweaking over time. A lot of the New Deal policies turned out that way as well.

[phleshdef]

42. But you are talking 18 months vs 3+ terms, and FDR had a congress bending over backwards for him.

[Hutzpa]

104. Only time will tell

time will tell.

[Mimosa]

93. Likable hasn't provided jobs for people.

Likable caters to the big corporations and banksters.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

99. No, but stimulus does.

Likable caters to wallstreet reform and billion dollar escrows.

So much for big corporations and banksters.

[tekisui]

101. With unemployment still hovering around 10%, with record numbers

unemployed for 27 weeks, that chart doesn't mean much.

It is good that the increasing losses have been stalled. But, we still need JOBS. Until people are put back to work, Obama and the Dems will not be seen as effective on the economy.

[phleshdef]

11. As long as people use FDR and Johnson's legacies as a basis to measure Obama...

...then those same people are going to have to deal with talking about the failings of both Presidents as well.

This kind of thing will always be part of the conversation when people are discussing a particular President's progress. You might as well get over it. Its not going anywhere.

[Mimosa]

97. Well, LBJ let the US get pulled deeper into an unwinnable war.

Nobody wants that, do we?

[ProSense]

14. Interesting.

The President that some people claim has done nothing and is destroying the country being compared to FDR, and by credible voices, causing the critics much consternation.

Young, gifted and Barack.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

17. It ain't no big thing.

There were plenty of imbeciles who hated FDR for no good reason either.

Luckily, history tends to forget the haters.

[treestar]

15. Well quit holding FDR up as someone who'd have done whatever you think

you want done by the POTUS.

The times are very different.

[bvar22]

56. The times ARE different,

but the VALUES and Pro-Working Class Policies implemented by FDR are timeless, and SHOULD serve as a Blueprint and Platform for today's Democratic Party.
Sadly, they are not.

[Enrique]

19. Rahm would have called FDR a F*ing retard n/t

[NJmaverick]

21. Why?

[phleshdef]

29. No, he would have called commercials opposing social security because of its initial weaknesses...

...fucking retarded. If you are going to make a historical comparison, thats the only way it would work. Incovenient for you, I know.

[RaleighNCDUer]

70. Despite social security's initial weaknesses, it created something

entirely new and took the country in a new direction.

This sad excuse for health care reform, however, reinforced a healthcare system based on private insurance companies - based on INSURANCE instead of HEALTHCARE.

FDR, on the other hand, proposed the Second Bill Of Rights --

Among these are:

The right to a useful and remunerative job in the industries or shops or farms or mines of the nation;

The right to earn enough to provide adequate food and clothing and recreation;

The right of every farmer to raise and sell his products at a return which will give him and his family a decent living;

The right of every businessman, large and small, to trade in an atmosphere of freedom from unfair competition and domination by monopolies at home or abroad;

The right of every family to a decent home;

The right to adequate medical care and the opportunity to achieve and enjoy good health;

The right to adequate protection from the economic fears of old age, sickness, accident, and unemployment;

The right to a good education.

----

There is nothing in there about guaranteed profits for health insurance companies.

What we got is not a game changer. It just tweaks a few rules.

[treestar]

77. Social security and medicare are insurance, too.

[Bluenorthwest]

81. They are not private, run for profit, and compulsory

Because the latest reforms are the fist such policy ever put in place by any nation. Nowhere, ever have citizens been forced to buy a private for profit product. Ever. In most countries, it is illegal to even attempt to do so.
So there is that.

[Mimosa]

96. Raleigh, I'm going to keep your post in my diary

You really nailed it. I wish things had changed and I don't know why Obama the candidate changed radically.

In this horrible economy a real FDR type approach would have kept the independents on Obama's side and won over so many people. he did not stay consistent after the election. Something changed 6 weeks after Inauguration.

[Mimosa]

98. Raleigh, you posted how FDR laid the foundation for 50 years of progress

I'm awed how you condensed FDR's legacy. Did you ever see the marvelous HBO movie "Warm Springs"? It showed how deeply Franklin connected with people who had real life challenges because of illness.

Quoting your post here:

Mon Jun-28-10 03:24 PM
Response to Reply #29
70. Despite social security's initial weaknesses, it created something

entirely new and took the country in a new direction.

This sad excuse for health care reform, however, reinforced a healthcare system based on private insurance companies - based on INSURANCE instead of HEALTHCARE.

FDR, on the other hand, proposed the Second Bill Of Rights --

Among these are:

The right to a useful and remunerative job in the industries or shops or farms or mines of the nation;

The right to earn enough to provide adequate food and clothing and recreation;

The right of every farmer to raise and sell his products at a return which will give him and his family a decent living;

The right of every businessman, large and small, to trade in an atmosphere of freedom from unfair competition and domination by monopolies at home or abroad;

The right of every family to a decent home;

The right to adequate medical care and the opportunity to achieve and enjoy good health;

The right to adequate protection from the economic fears of old age, sickness, accident, and unemployment;

The right to a good education.

----

There is nothing in there about guaranteed profits for health insurance companies.

What we got is not a game changer. It just tweaks a few rules.

[sabrina 1]

89. No, if we are talking about facts, he would have called

our electoral system, which includes primaries as a means to throw out elected officials who are not doing their jobs, retarded.

That's what Rahm was talking about, challenging incumbents in primary elections. Rahm doesn't like our democratic electoral system. I don't know what FDR thought about it, so I cannot come up with an analogy. But I don't think your analogy works either, historically.

[Drunken Irishman]

40. And DU would have called FDR a DLCer.

[dflprincess]

48. No - he just would have called him a "traitor to his class"

like all the supporters of unregulated capitalism did.

Eleanor was the real liberal and the one Rahm would have really hated.

[RaleighNCDUer]

68. Exactly. nt

[NYC_SKP]

23. Few things are now as they were during FDR's 3+ terms. Comparisons are kinda pointless.

Whether used to criticize or to support President Obama, simplistic comparisons are not really helpful toward productive discussions.

I don't doubt that FDR got more than a fair share of bashing during his first two years from whatever constituted "the Left" back then.

:patriot:

Edit sp.

[BklnDem75]

25. I'll tell you what...

You give Obama 12 years and THEN we'll talk about fair comparisons. Deal?

[stray cat]

27. He doesn't look anything life FDR - nor does American resemble that time period

[mix]

38. .

Disparities in wealth were a fundamental cause of the Great Depression and are at the root of our present economic predicament.

[stray cat]

28. I personally don't believe in reincarnation so I guess I agree

[Tarheel_Dem]

30. What an absurd and pointless post. (nt)

[dionysus]

61. hey you! put up yer dukes, it's time for part two!!

[Tarheel_Dem]

65. Dude. The smilies are as hilarious as this thread. You're gonna get me in trouble.

:rofl:

[treestar]

78. Where did you get those smilies?

:rofl:

[DevonRex]

85. BTW, I wish DU had those smilies. And I wish I knew how to post

smilies that DU doesn't have. :hi:

[dionysus]

87. for instance.. google "boxing smileys", click image results... and have at it!

[FrenchieCat]

37. You are correct, Obama is not FDR,

neither were any President other than FDR!
he is Obama....and that is a good thing.
However if some decide to put Obama in the same realm
as a 3 term serving President, after Obama's not even two years
in determining Obama's legislative achievement,
I hope that folks will not be bitter,
as their are so many things being written about this President currently;
some good, and some not so.

[Name removed]

47. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Fire1]

50. Again???????????? Face palm. n/t

[BeyondGeography]

51. What a waste of time this is

:thumbsdown:

[KingFlorez]

52. Really? Thanks for telling us that

All this time I was thinking that he was actually FDR. How great it is to have people around to enlighten us.

[Name removed]

53. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[bvar22]

54. This is ALL you need to know:

"We have come to a clear realization of the fact that true individual freedom cannot exist without economic security and independence. “Necessitous men are not free men.” People who are hungry and out of a job are the stuff of which dictatorships are made.

In our day these economic truths have become accepted as self-evident. We have accepted, so to speak, a second Bill of Rights under which a new basis of security and prosperity can be established for all—regardless of station, race, or creed.

Among these are:

*The right to a useful and remunerative job in the industries or shops or farms or mines of the nation;

*The right to earn enough to provide adequate food and clothing and recreation;

*The right of every farmer to raise and sell his products at a return which will give him and his family a decent living;

*The right of every businessman, large and small, to trade in an atmosphere of freedom from unfair competition and domination by monopolies at home or abroad;

*The right of every family to a decent home;

*The right to adequate medical care and the opportunity to achieve and enjoy good health;

*The right to adequate protection from the economic fears of old age, sickness, accident, and unemployment;

*The right to a good education.

All of these rights spell security. And after this war is won we must be prepared to move forward, in the implementation of these rights, to new goals of human happiness and well-being."--FDR

It is necessary to go to what is now called the "Fucking Retarded" Wing of the Democratic Party to find someone who is willing to support these values expressed by FDR.

The current President did NOT STAND UP for "The right to adequate medical care and the opportunity to achieve and enjoy good health"
Instead, the current President signed a LAW that FORCES every American to BUY Health Insurance from For Profit Corporations.
BIG difference.

The current effort to somehow cloak the current President in FDRs Working Class/Populist legacy, or even favorably compare him to FDR defies History and Logic. It is reminiscent of Republican effort to connect Bush the Lesser to JFK during the dark years.


"If we don't fight hard enough for the things we stand for,
at some point we have to recognize that we don't really stand for them."
--- Paul Wellstone

[ProSense]

57. This is all anyone needs to know

President Obama, not FDR, enacted health care reform.

"The current President did NOT STAND UP for "The right to adequate medical care and the opportunity to achieve and enjoy good health"
Instead, the current President signed a LAW that FORCES every American to BUY Health Insurance from For Profit Corporations.
BIG difference."

Facts: the bill does not force "every American to BUY Health Insurance from For Profit Corporations," individuals under 30 are exempt. Americans over 65 qualify for Medicare. Many more Americans qualify for Medicaid. At least one non-profit plan must be offered.

[bvar22]

58. "Obama, not FDR, enacted health care reform" = FALSE

President Obama signed in to law some provisions that may or may not prove effective at limiting the abuses of the Health Insurance Industry.
He did absolutely NOTHING to reform "Health Care".

[LWolf]

73. + 1,000,000

[ProSense]

75. FDR enacted health care reform?

How does your characterization of the bill change the fact that FDR didn't?

Whatever you want to call it, President Obama did it, not FDR.

[cheapdate]

82. There are 8 titles in the health care bill

that cover many aspects of health care delivery in this country.

You can say he did "absolutely NOTHING" to reform health care but I don't think an examination of all of the titles in the law would support your conclusion.

[Mimosa]

94. The health insurance reform bill will do nothing

to reduce costs. And nothing to help my family.

[treestar]

76. FDR did even less in that regard

It is a fact it did not happen before the end of his term; so are you going to call his words "just words" and pretty speeches and such?

Obama got what he could get in 2010. FDR was unable to get anywhere during his terms.

They both made what progress could be made.

Be careful making a hero of FDR while making fun of anyone who supports President Obama. FDR is in the past and there are plenty of facts to dig up.

[WI_DEM]

55. And FDR is not Obama

They are two remarkable presidents from different eras. We shouldn't be trying to build one up to bring down another. Both are remarkable in their own individual ways. Is Obama as great as FDR--No, but he is building a solid record.

[Dr Morbius]

80. Hear hear.

It is obviously unfair to compare a President with over twelve years in office with a President with less than two years in office.

It is clearly unfair to compare the two without taking into account the vast differences between their times. FDR had a press which listened to and obeyed him; in return for always getting good copy from him, they voluntarily put aside their cameras whenever he said so. Barack Obama faces a 24/7 electronic media that is constantly looking for a way to take him down. America in 1930 had a population of 122 million; the current population is expected to be 306 million. And so on.

FDR couldn't get elected today. Barack Obama couldn't get elected in 1932. This is a different world, and we face different problems today than we did in 1934. Looking backwards is the typical conservative answer to find the solutions. The answer does not lie in yesterday. It's unfair to expect Barack Obama to be the equal of a man normally considered the greatest American President, within two years, amid hostile media and partisan beltway politics which, by the way, is almost entirely dominated by special interests. Is it possible our standards are too high?

[dionysus]

60. your ability to grasp the fact that they are indeed, two different people, is fantastic.

[DevonRex]

62. Arcadian is not God.

[dionysus]

63. uh oh! them's fighting words! put up yer dukes!

[DevonRex]

71. I don't have any dukes. I'll just have to

:hide:

[Phx_Dem]

64. He's better.

FDR had a much larger Democratic majority in Congress than Obama enjoys. But Obama has still managed to pass huge and important legilation in less than 2 years.

Take your bitterness elsewhere.

[Frisbee]

67. You are 100% correct...

and sadly, he could have been. Obviously he is miles better than Bush, but still, what a waste when you look at the opportunity he has squandered.

[cottonseed]

69. If FDR was so great, why can't progressives better defend his policies.

Looks like everything he did is being dismantled. If it was such a good thing, then why is it that during the reigning of this latest generation is all of it being torn down?

[depakid]

90. Stupid (and corrupt) is as stupid (and corrupt) does....

[LWolf]

72. The only legacy I'd tie his boat onto

Ronald Reagan's.

If he has to be connected to someone else's legacy.

[Jennicut]

74. No two Presidents are the same and I don't ever understand comparisons negatively or positively.

Seriously. They are all shaped by their own unique philosophies and personalities. Some have very similar world views. But none are the same. Nor should they be, we are humans.

[RamboLiberal]

86. And FDR wasn't FDR

At least how some remember the history. If there had been an DU during FDR's term there would be many criticism's of his presidency here.

[branders seine]

88. Yup, he's not.

I've examined it legally and he's morally, ethically

(Munchkin 1)
Spiritually, physically

(Munchkin 2)
Positively, absolutely

(Munchkin Men)
Undeniably and reliably not FDR!

He's not only merely not FDR,
He's really most sincerely not FDR!

[impik]

95. Right. He is not. He is *Barack Hussein Obama*.

That who he is.

[TheKentuckian]

102. He's not even DDE or RMN more GHWB or RJD and working on HCH

[Jennicut]

106. Yeah, Nixon actually had people break in to Watergate. Obama has failed on that, right?

Why oh why didn't he break into the hotel of the Republican Party headquarters during the 2008 campaign?

[TheKentuckian]

108. He substituted extra-judicial murder at his whim.

[StevieM]

114. RJD? I'm stumped. Who is that? (eom)

[Hutzpa]

105. The truth about Democrats

we sure do know how to fu... well no too harsh, sure do know how to shoot ourselves in the foot.

It's like an orchestrated efforts by some to consistently berate Democrats that are trying their
hardest to undo the mess created by republicans.

Then again republicans are good at buying democrats into playing their dirty game for them.

:yoiks:

[StevieM]

109. Isn't that a good thing? Why would we want Obama to be in a position

to have a legacy similar to FDR? Do we want Obama to lead us through a war as devastating and deadly as World War II? Do we want the economy he inherited to be in even worse shape--as bad as things were during the Great Depression? Do we wish that the GOP had successfully abolished Social Security so that Obama could fight to re-create it?

Let's hope we never have another president as great as Lincoln or FDR again.

Speaking as someone who took a long time to warm up to the president, I think he's doing a terrific job. Our country is in better shape, at home and abroad, then before he took office. And that's a legacy to be proud of.

Steve

[ncteechur]

110. Folks need to stop pretending that FDR was a saint.

There hasn't been a single president that has gotten everything correct and it is simply foolish to compare one to another.

[cali]

111. LOL. what a silly op.

[tsuki]

112. not even close. nt