NYT: President Obama's "Timetable for Drawdown Sets Off Afghan Alarm"

[ClarkUSA]

KABUL, Afghanistan — For Afghans, the change in tone was unmistakable. http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/03/world/asia/03pstan.html">Unlike Bush-era speeches pledging unending support, President Obama suddenly introduced a timeline and a period of 18 months before the start of a drawdown of troops.

The timetable set off alarm here and may have already succeeded in Mr. Obama’s goal of focusing Afghans’ attention... when the drawdown begins in 18 months, the number of troops on the ground would be as much as 35,000 more than at present and the Afghan forces stronger... the 18-month timeline for the start of a transition to Afghan authority had served something of a shock therapy to the Afghan government... Yet generally Afghan officials have commended the new strategy — much of which has already been in place since General McChrystal took command for six months — to lower civilian casualties, protect the Afghan people, train more Afghan forces and hand over more responsibility to them... those officials pitted on the front line against the Taliban insurgents, said a rapid surge of 30,000 troops this winter was desperately needed, since Afghan forces could not fight off the current insurgency on their own.

“It’s a very good idea,” said a senior security official who has been in the forefront of tracking Al Qaeda and Taliban since 2001. The United States had very good human intelligence on Taliban on both sides of the border in Afghanistan and Pakistan but they did not have enough good fighters in the Afghan army and police, he said.

“They need the Americans,” he said. A surge of extra forces could undercut the insurgency in six months since many of the Taliban were ready to negotiate and could be persuaded to swap sides with a concerted effort, he said.

And in other http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/03/world/asia/03pstan.html">news:

The Taliban jumped in with their own draft of reality. President Obama was ignoring the interests of his own people, who were suffering an economic downturn, the group said in an e-mail. “It clearly indicates that the United States has broad, long-term, brazen plans not only for Afghanistan but also for the region,” said the statement, bearing the heading of the Islamic Emirates of Afghanistan... warning that sending more troops will only lead to more casualties for NATO and American troops and cause more Afghan civilian casualties.

Hmm... where have I heard this "draft of reality" before? :think:

[BunkerHill24]

1. Of Course...

We are telling the Afghan people that we will protect you "until 2011", but then we'll withdraw out of your slums, on our choosing...and then you are on your own. So, need not worry, Afghans, we are with you, for now.

[ClarkUSA]

2. Actually, I'm glad to say that you're wrong.

From the same article:

If Tuesday night was about President Obama sending a message to the American public that the war in Afghanistan would not be open-ended, then Wednesday in Kabul was about reassuring the Afghans of America’s long-term commitment.

To underscore that, Mr. Eikenberry signed an agreement with the Afghan foreign minister, Rangin Dadfar Spanta, at a ceremony to open the first United States consulate in Afghanistan in the northern city of Mazar-i-Sharif, with another planned in the city of Herat.

“I want to emphasize that we have a very comprehensive approach and a long-term friendship and partnership with Afghanistan,” Mr. Eikenberry said. President Obama discussed further assistance in energy, water management, mines, agriculture and improvement of the civil service in his video conference call on Tuesday with President Hamid Karzai, he added.

We're not leaving Afghanistan high and dry the way the U.S. abandoned Pakistan in the 80's.

[BunkerHill24]

4. I doubt we'll be there to rebuild the country

We have national interest to stay the course...an oil pipeline we are trying to construct is one consideration, and a watch over Iran is the other.

[ClarkUSA]

21. Did you not read what I quoted from the U.S. ambassador?

'“I want to emphasize that we have a very comprehensive approach and a long-term friendship and partnership with Afghanistan,” Mr. Eikenberry said. President Obama discussed further assistance in energy, water management, mines, agriculture and improvement of the civil service in his video conference call on Tuesday with President Hamid Karzai, he added.'

That's helping to rebuild the country in a very real way.

[izquierdista]

6. Yes, long term friendship

Which will work out as well as our long term friendship with the Shah of Iran.

[ClarkUSA]

22. Doomsday apples and oranges analogies aside, there's a long-term commitment to build infrastructure.

'“I want to emphasize that we have a very comprehensive approach and a long-term friendship and partnership with Afghanistan,” Mr. Eikenberry said. President Obama discussed further assistance in energy, water management, mines, agriculture and improvement of the civil service in his video conference call on Tuesday with President Hamid Karzai, he added.'

That's helping to rebuild the country in a very real way.

[izquierdista]

23. That will be a change

The standard M.O. has been to give the money to the Shah or whoever has been in charge and precious little ends up benefiting the people.

[ClarkUSA]

24. I agree. This administration, unlike prior ones, has learned from the mistakes of the past.

Their approach to building enduring partnerships is more Peace Corps than Cold War realpolitik.

[izquierdista]

25. Peace Corps?

Did I hear wrong? Is it going to be 30,000 Peace Corps volunteers or is it 30,000 heavily armed troops?

[ClarkUSA]

26. I was referring to the approach to building long-term partnerships and you know it.

As for ending the Afghanistan war in 2011, that's a strategic decision that has the backing of the Afghanistan government.

"Yet generally Afghan officials have commended the new strategy — much of which has already been in place since General McChrystal took command for six months — to lower civilian casualties, protect the Afghan people, train more Afghan forces and hand over more responsibility to them... those officials pitted on the front line against the Taliban insurgents, said a rapid surge of 30,000 troops this winter was desperately needed, since Afghan forces could not fight off the current insurgency on their own.

“It’s a very good idea,” said a senior security official who has been in the forefront of tracking Al Qaeda and Taliban since 2001. The United States had very good human intelligence on Taliban on both sides of the border in Afghanistan and Pakistan but they did not have enough good fighters in the Afghan army and police, he said.

“They need the Americans,” he said. A surge of extra forces could undercut the insurgency in six months since many of the Taliban were ready to negotiate and could be persuaded to swap sides with a concerted effort, he said."

[vaberella]

9. You see...we have people who talk like you on one end and the other group who's like--END NOW.

In the end...there is no win. Because there is no right answer----the eventual answer is that we know we need to get out. How to get there is the problem and how that is interpreted seems to be anoter.

[ClarkUSA]

31. Nevertheless, having an exit plan for 2011 seems to have lit a fire under Karzai.

"Karzai willing to talk to Taliban":
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=433x35463

[Life Long Dem]

17. Look.

The President has some experience when it comes to transistions.

We just did a transition in Iraq this year, right? How are they doing now?

I say we let Obama do his job.

[ClarkUSA]

33. Amen to that.

:thumbsup:

[mopinko]

3. hmmmm things look different

in afghanistan than they do here on du? whooodathunkit.
seriously, i trust obama. i wish we lived in a different world. i don't really like the cops in my city, either. but there are some ugly things in the world. it is a mess over there. i would not know what to do.
but i know this- this thing is seriously thought out. i know that we will be doing more than just shooting at people over there. i hope that he succeeds, but i am pretty sure he will need a second term to really do that.

[ClarkUSA]

29. Yeah, they sure do.

<<seriously, i trust obama.>>

Me too.

<<i wish we lived in a different world. i don't really like the cops in my city, either. but there are
some ugly things in the world. it is a mess over there. i would not know what to do.>>

I'm a born and bred New Yorker so I hear you... you're right, "it is a mess over there" but by 2011, I'm glad we'll be outta there
after giving Pres. Obama a chance to do what should've been done years ago.

<<but i know this- this thing is seriously thought out. i know that we will be doing more than just shooting at people over there. i hope that he succeeds, but i am pretty sure he will need a second term to really do that.>>

Absolutely.

[msallied]

5. Happy to K&R

:thumbsup:

[ClarkUSA]

30. Thanks, it's a pleasure to post FACTS about what Pres. Obama is doing.

:hi:

[HughMoran]

7. haha - welcome to the real world Karzai

Setting a date for withdrawal was a stroke of genius. The Republicans were caught flat-footed and can't say anything about this going forward. The generals know this is it - no more effin' around - time to focus and get it done. The Afghan leadership also has to get their act together or flee to the mountains.

[ClarkUSA]

34. Really.

<<Setting a date for withdrawal was a stroke of genius. The Republicans were caught flat-footed and can't say anything about this going forward. The generals know this is it - no more effin' around - time to focus and get it done. The Afghan leadership also has to get their act together or flee to the mountains.>>

That's about it in a nutshell. Nice. :thumbsup:

[Cha]

8. In other news..

"In Afghanistan, a statement from the presidential palace noted only that the government welcomed Mr. Obama’s new strategy for the support it offered in development and training for Afghan institutions and in protecting the Afghan people. It also commended the plan for the recognition that terrorists were operating in the region beyond Afghanistan’s borders in Pakistan.

That acknowledgment was precisely what offended many in Pakistan, where the official reaction was limited to a short statement issued by the Foreign Office welcoming Mr. Obama’s “reaffirmation of partnership.”

Not pleasing everyone as usual.

"Pakistani analysts and security officials expressed skepticism that the United States would be able to achieve in 18 months what it had failed to do in eight years, and they said they considered the military buildup to be more resources poured into what was essentially a losing strategy."

Sorry guys..there's a new sheriff in town.

All the talk about the neo-cons agreeing with Pres Obama's new policy leaves out ..who's agreeing with them.

"The Taliban jumped in with their own draft of reality. President Obama was ignoring the interests of his own people, who were suffering an economic downturn, the group said in an e-mail. “It clearly indicates that the United States has broad, long-term, brazen plans not only for Afghanistan but also for the region,” said the statement, bearing the heading of the Islamic Emirates of Afghanistan... warning that sending more troops will only lead to more casualties for NATO and American troops and cause more Afghan civilian casualties."

[vaberella]

11. Obama basically has no one on his side.

Some idiots on this site say he's back by Neo-cons. But then you have he unknowledgeable neo-cons, like McCain, one of the first people to bash the President. In the end...he's basically if agree with the nuts here, the left, but he's also managed to do the same to the right. Well there are a few of us who understand his plight and support him.

[Cha]

14. Thankfully we have a President who is laser

focused(as I've been posting a bit tonight) and he gives me inspiration in that department.

He can take any of the shit the rw or the extremists, who practice subterfuge, on either side can throw at him.

[ClarkUSA]

37. Actually, 67% of Americans support his decision, as per today's CNN poll.

Reast easy... DU's idiots are in a small minority in the real world.

:)

[Fire1]

44. Thankfully. n/t

[ClarkUSA]

57. Before the speech, it wasn't so. But most Americans listened to what Pres. Obama said on Tuesday.

And they, like us, support his decision.

:fistbump:

[ClarkUSA]

38. Many who are against Pres. Obama's decision seem to be echoing the Taliban's "draft of reality"...

"The Taliban jumped in with their own draft of reality. President Obama was ignoring the interests of his own people, who were suffering an economic downturn, the group said in an e-mail. “It clearly indicates that the United States has broad, long-term, brazen plans not only for Afghanistan but also for the region,” said the statement, bearing the heading of the Islamic Emirates of Afghanistan... warning that sending more troops will only lead to more casualties for NATO and American troops and cause more Afghan civilian casualties."

:puke:

[Moochy]

39. Bizarroland eh?

:wtf: indeed.

Oppositesville even!

[ClarkUSA]

40. Not at all. It's hardly surprising that insurgent sympathizers would agree with the insurgents.

:shrug:

[Moochy]

41. Glad to have made you think!

was not sure it was possible! It's clear you know how to whine to your pro-war support group.

:shrug:

[ClarkUSA]

42. Think about replying to those who follow me from thread to thread to whine about Obama's decision?

Is that what you mean? :shrug:

[Moochy]

43. Two can play at that game

I have no idea what you are talking about! :shrug:

[ClarkUSA]

48. What game? "Boring The OP To Tears With Inane Replies"? I must say, you are very good at it.

:rofl:

[Moochy]

49. See the Amazing Clark USA channelling Operation Mind Crime's Anal Cyst

[ClarkUSA]

50. Classy as always...

:rofl:

[Moochy]

51. And just like OMC you seem to have the ability to delete any subthread at will

funny how that works ... huh?

I bow down to your abilities, for you truly rule this kingdom, you have made it CLARKUSAPROWARUNDERGROUND.
I guess it pays to kiss ass to "friends" in low places.

[ClarkUSA]

52. What are you talking about? Do you have any opinion on the OP?

:)

[Moochy]

53. Yeah thats how it works, you cry, things disappear, you post a shruggie

Why did i take this goon off ignore. :shrug:

[ClarkUSA]

54. You obviously have no opinion on Pres. Obama's 2011 timetable. Thanks for kicking my OP anyway.

:hi:

[vaberella]

10. "the 18-month timeline for the start of a transition to Afghan authority "

The above quote, was to me, the key statement----we move in and do what we can in the 18 months we can and then we leave. Because there has been way too much dillydallying.

[ShortnFiery]

12. OH yeah, and the Taliban will hunker down like those wiley Viet Cong did during the 1960s ...

the moment we leave, the Mayor of Kabul will begin to be dethroned, i.e., civil war.

[vaberella]

16. Uh huh...which would mean our national security would still be at risk and probably more so.

what's your solution? YOu don't have one, except to get out---which would lead to the same shit. Full circle either way. Civil war breaks out and the it bleeds arond Afghanistan...what does that mean?! We're back in----EITHER WAY! But your viewpoint is hypothetical of what could happen even with more troops. Mine is definitive if we withdraw early.

[Fire1]

45. Without a doubt, vab! n/t

[ClarkUSA]

62. Exactly.

:thumbsup:

[BunkerHill24]

18. Not only will Mr. Karzai (Mayor of Kabul) will be dethroned..

He would be cut-off..and his non-being send off to other provinces, as an example, were the Taliban is concern!

[ClarkUSA]

63. What are you talking about?

:shrug:

[BeyondGeography]

28. A war of national liberation, civilian casualties on a massive scale, a totally different terrain...

Afghanistan is not Vietnam:

http://www.theworld.org/2009/10/07/afghanistan-is-not-vietnam/

[ClarkUSA]

61. "Afghanistan is not Vietnam"

Thank you, brother. :fistbump:

[Aramchek]

13. to the top with ye!

[ClarkUSA]

55. Thanks, Aramchek!

:hi:

[firedupdem]

15. Rec'd...thanks for the info n/t

[ClarkUSA]

35. You're welcome. It's obvious that the extra troops are badly needed.

:hi:

[JTFrog]

19. K&R

[NJmaverick]

20. Imagine that, Obama proved to be smarter than his critics

go figure

[ClarkUSA]

36. It's amazing how many anonymous bloggers here think they're so much smarter than the President.

One of the usual bitter suspects called him a "dumbass" while another called him "weak"
because of course, they're so brilliant and strong.

:rofl:

[Kdillard]

27. Good they realize we are not staying there indefinitely while getting nothing

Accomplished or any real help from them.

[harun]

58. Good point, they needed a fire lit under em.

[mkultra]

32. Its time we finished this

we need to get OBL and finish the job

[ClarkUSA]

59. Bush was AWOL when there was a chance to nail OBL. We have until 2011.

Let's hope we neuter Al-Qaeda and their Taliban protectors by then.

[Fire1]

46. Too late to rec but i can kick! n/t

[ClarkUSA]

56. Thanks, Fire1.

:hi:

[Moochy]

47. K&R

ClarkUSAUnderground rules!

[ClarkUSA]

60. I doubt you rec'd this, but thanks for the kick, anyway.

:)