Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Handy Guide to why the Afghanistan War will be a failure unless we withdraw soon

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » General Discussion: Presidency Donate to DU
 
zulchzulu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-01-09 02:49 PM
Original message
Handy Guide to why the Afghanistan War will be a failure unless we withdraw soon
It seems apparent that President Obama knows that not a drop of American blood should fall to the ground or spill from this man.



President Hamid Karzai "won" the unriveled election on November 1, 2009 after the only rival, Abdullah Abdullah, dropped out of the election due to what he felt was going to be an election as corrupt as the August 20 presidential election.

How corrupt was the August 20 election? Besides ballot boxes being stuffed in many regions, you could buy your voter registration cards...

Several tribal leaders and local people in Helmand described a systematic attempt by supporters of Mr Karzai to collect or buy voter registration cards from local people.

One tribal elder in the Marja district of Helmand alleged that the vote rigging was being organised by members of Mr Karzai’s family and local tribal allies, particularly Sher Mohammad Akhundzada, the former governor of the province.

“In Marja and other districts we can’t vote because of security problems,” he said. “We are continuing to buy the cards. I am one of the people responsible for collecting cards in Marja. We bought the cards for $30 (£18).”

The man, who asked not to be identified, said that other elders were also collecting cards for Mr Karzai.

“Behind the curtain it is the brother of Mr Karzai and Sher Mohammad Akhundzada who are working on this,” he added.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/asia/article6792729.ece


What people should be extremely concerned about is the idea to send more troops and resources into Afghanistan now with the same rotted Karzai government in power and peddlers of the delusion pontificating that democracy can miraculously occur there. Should our troops fight and die for a “narco-kleptocracy" (opium fueling money and money buying government posts)? Are people like Dick Cheney aware that Obama's "dithering" on this decision rests on funding billions of taxpayer dollars toward an Islamic state that will never be a democracy nor will even have its citizens recognize its own government? So more troops?

The US commander in Afghanistan, Gen. Stanley McChrystal, has essentially told Mr. Obama that the US must repeat an Iraq-style surge in Afghanistan – adding 40,000 troops to the 21,000 Obama has already sent – to succeed.

(snip)

The concern is that the Afghan government has become so rotted with corruption that it cannot consolidate the gains the US military makes. In other words, the US will never be able to leave Afghanistan unless there’s at least a minimally effective government to help in the near term and then take over in the future.

(snip)

The US Drug Enforcement Administration has accused Afghan President Hamid Karzai’s brother, Ahmed Wali, of running the opium trade in Kandahar Province.

Law and order in the country has collapsed as many police use their posts primarily as a platform for bribe-taking.

Even before the election, President Karzai had lost broad public support in Afghanistan because of his government’s inability – or unwillingness – to stifle corruption. Indeed, it is corruption, not insecurity, that most angers Afghans.

http://features.csmonitor.com/politics/2009/09/27/how-can-40000-troops-fix-chronic-corruption-in-afghanistan


So let's talk about the specifics of just how corrupt Afghanistan is now:

Want to be a provincial police chief? It will cost you $100,000. Want to drive a convoy of trucks loaded with fuel across the country? Be prepared to pay $6,000 per truck, so the police will not tip off the Taliban. Need to settle a lawsuit over the ownership of your house? About $25,000, depending on the judge.

"It is very shameful, but probably I will pay the bribe," Mohammed Naim, a young English teacher, said as he stood in front of the Secondary Courthouse in Kabul. His brother had been arrested a week before, and the police were demanding $4,000 for his release. "Everything is possible in this country now. Everything."

Kept afloat by billions of dollars in American and other foreign aid, the government of Afghanistan is shot through with corruption and graft. From the lowliest traffic policeman to the family of President Hamid Karzai himself, the state built on the ruins of the Taliban government seven years ago now often seems to exist for little more than the enrichment of those who run it.

(snip)

...the president's brother, Ahmed Wali Karzai, are cooperating in the country's opium trade, now the world's largest. In the streets and government offices, hardly a public transaction seems to unfold here that does not carry with it the requirement of a bribe, a gift, or, in case you are a beggar, "harchee" - whatever you have in your pocket.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/02/world/asia/02iht-corrupt.1.19050534.html?_r=2




So the Karzai government and the Karzai brothers are corrupt to the core and there is no end in sight to changing anything about that. There's another issue where our troops should not have to die for protecting the Karzai government. It has to due with human rights in the most hideous of ways:

Afghanistan's President, Hamid Karzai, has signed a law which "legalises" rape, women's groups and the United Nations warn. Critics claim the president helped rush the bill through parliament in a bid to appease Islamic fundamentalists ahead of elections in August.

In a massive blow for women's rights, the new Shia Family Law negates the need for sexual consent between married couples, tacitly approves child marriage and restricts a woman's right to leave the home, according to UN papers seen by The Independent.

(snip)

Most of Afghanistan's Shias are ethnic Hazaras, descended from Genghis Khan's Mongol army which swept through the entire region around 700 years ago. They are Afghanistan's third largest ethnic group, and potential kingmakers, because their leaders will likely back a mainstream candidate.

Even the law's sponsors admit Mr Karzai rushed it through to win their votes. Ustad Mohammad Akbari, a prominent Shia political leader, said: "It's electioneering. Most of the Hazara people are unhappy with Mr Karzai."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/03/31/karzai-accused-of-bid-to_n_181153.html


Some more background on this hideous policy that Karzai embraces:

In late March 2009, Afghan President Hamid Karzai signed into law an internationally condemned "Shia Family Law" which condones apparent spousal rape (in Article 132), child marriage and imposes purdah on married Afghan women. Although the offending legislation is said to have been dormant for a year, President Karzai was trying to gain the support of Afghan northern Shia legislators and the neighbouring Islamic Republic of Iran, which is Shia-dominated. According to Britain's Independent newspaper, the 'family code' was not read in the Upper House/Senate, and also enshrines gender discrimination in inheritance law and divorce against women.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asa/afgan-leader-accused-of-bid-to-legalise-rape-1658049.html


If you want to monitor the human rights situation in Afghanistan, this is an excellent site:
Afghanistan Independent Human Rights Commission - http://www.aihrc.org.af/English /



The largest reason for corruption in Afghanistan is the opium trade due to being able to grow poppy. The illustration above shows where the danger zones are.

Any war that the West is usually interested in involves grabbing energy resources from third-world countries. This tidbit of information could provide some clues about our interest in the region:

The country's natural resources include gold, silver, copper, zinc and iron ore in southeastern areas; precious and semi-precious stones such as lapis, emerald and azure in the north-east; and potentially significant petroleum and natural gas reserves in the north. The country also has coal, chromite, talc, barites, sulfur, lead, and salt. However, these significant mineral and energy resources remain largely untapped due to the effects of the Soviet invasion and the subsequent civil war. Plans are underway to begin extracting them in the near future.

http://www.4afghan.net/geography /




In summation, it is obvious that backing and having troops be in harm's way (and spending hundreds of billions of taxpayer dollars) a corrupt government in Afghanistan is an ultimately failing strategy:

Mr. Karzai's close relationship with some warlords and distrusted leaders, possibly including members of his own family, has been a well-known problem since he became President in 2004. But now, as jockeying begins toward a 2009 presidential election and Western officials are increasingly anxious to bring stability to Afghanistan, Mr. Karzai's acquiescence to violent and deeply corrupt men is increasingly considered unsustainable.

“I think there is an issue of corruption in this government, accepted by everybody, to include President Karzai,” General Dan McNeill, the U.S. commander of the NATO coalition fighting in Afghanistan, said in an interview. “Corruption, in my view, is the symptom, the disease is greed, and that works against what we're trying to do here.”

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/article683261.ece




Why The War in Afghanistan is basically about the TAPI Gas Pipeline

OK. So let's look at "why we went into Afghanistan" after 9/11.

You will be led to believe that the 19 hijackers got their training in Afghanistan with Osama bin Laden. They learned how to hijack planes and fly them into the various buildings and made other building nearby mysteriously crash into rubble.

Yes, we all know the story. There is nothing but the highest level of compassion for the victims of 9/11.



So let's assume that the 9/11 attacks are why we went into Afghanistan. Let's say there is no link to the fact that Hamid Karzai, originally a Taliban supporter and a contact with the CIA in the 80's, worked with the United States to overthrow the Taliban after 9/11 happened. Let's also imagine there is no link that Karzai was a consultant for the oil company Unocal (Union Oil Company of California), now owned by Chevron (who merged with Unocal in 2005).

Granted, Unocal has rejected the idea that Karzai worked with them (while being involved with the CIA helping install the Taliban in 1996), but could not speak for all companies involved in the group in that region. (Unocal was also responsible for the huge oil spill in Santa Barbara, CA in 1969 that led to public perception about the effects of the offshore oil drilling industry.)

Fast forward from 2001 where the Taliban were defeated, only to come back another day... namely now. The Taliban pretty much own Afghanistan and we are in a very different level of turmoil with the war there.

So why don't we just face facts? The real reason for the war in Afghanistan is to make the TAPI (Turkmenistan-Afghanistan-Pakistan-India) gas pipeline be constructed. It's another war for energy resources, as Iraq was and has been proven to be about.

You can see where the pipeline needs to be constructed in order to get resources to be able to be distributed.



A Pipeline Through a Troubled Land: Afghanistan, Canada and the New Great Energy Game documents the proposed Turkmenistan-Afghanistan-Pakistan-India (TAPI) pipeline, which will transport natural gas 1,680 kilometres from southeast Turkmenistan through southern Afghanistan, to Pakistan and India.

The report, written by international energy economist and former lead economist of PetroCanada John Foster, describes the U.S.-backed pipeline as turning Afghanistan into “an energy bridge” between Central and South Asia.

PDF: http://www.policyalternatives.ca/documents/National_Office_Pubs/2008/A_Pipeline_Through_a_Troubled_Land.pdf


Another illustration of the pipeline and its route:



There have been recent talks on getting the gas pipeline project constructed:

Four regional states started talks on the proposed gas pipeline project in Islamabad on Wednesday, the official Associated Press of Pakistan reported.

Ministers and high-ranking officials of Pakistan, India, Afghanistan and Turkmenistan were participating in the negotiations, said the report.

Briefing participants on the occasion, the Petroleum Minister of Turkmenistan said his country was endowed with huge gas reserves.

The proposed gas pipeline project will initially provide 30 million cubic meters of gas to Pakistan and India each and 5 million cubic meters to Afghanistan on a daily basis, which can be later increased up to 90 million cubic meters in aggregate.

The security aspect of gas pipeline in Afghanistan was discussed in the ministerial session on Wednesday.

According to the proposed Turkmenistan-Afghanistan-Pakistan- India (TAPI) gas pipeline project, Pakistan would import 3.2 billion cubic feet (around 90.613 million cubic meters) gas from Turkmenistan, which would be shared by both Pakistan and India, according to local media reports.

http://www.downstreamtoday.com/news/article.aspx?a_id=10294


More specifics on the gas pipeline project and the locations involved:

The pipeline would carry Turkmen gas through Afghanistan and Pakistan to India, with all three countries drawing supplies proportionate to their needs.

(snip)

The pipeline is proposed to run from the Dauletabad gas field to Afghanistan, from where TAPI will be constructed alongside the highway running from Herat to Kandahar, and then via Quetta and Multan in Pakistan. The final destination of the pipeline will be Fazilka in India, near the border with Pakistan.

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/News/News-By-Industry/Energy/Oil-Gas/Krishna-discusses-TAPI-gas-pipeline-project-with-Turkmenistan/articleshow/5031220.cms


So what does this all mean?

I would suggest that we completely revamp the idea of the Afghanistan war. Our troops can leave and a more international force that will benefit from the gas pipeline project should be put into place. The Afghanistan government should be properly reimbursed for their contributions to making the gas pipeline happen.

We should reframe the intent of the war to containing Al Qaeda in the Pashtun region (bordering Pakistan) and simply calling for the pipeline to be constructed by the Afghan people and whoever else would benefit.

Let's call this tragic war for what it really is... an energy resource conflict that should not be America's responsibility.

It's time to withdraw from Afghanistan NOW.



Perhaps the words of Rudyard Kipling's poem about being with the British in Afghanistan in the Second Anglo-Afghan war are in order:

Arithmetic On The Frontier

A great and glorious thing it is
To learn, for seven years or so,
The Lord knows what of that and this,
Ere reckoned fit to face the foe —
The flying bullet down the Pass,
That whistles clear: "All flesh is grass."

Three hundred pounds per annum spent
On making brain and body meeter
For all the murderous intent
Comprised in "villanous saltpetre!"
And after — ask the Yusufzaies
What comes of all our 'ologies.

A scrimmage in a Border Station —
A canter down some dark defile —
Two thousand pounds of education
Drops to a ten-rupee jezail —
The Crammer's boast, the Squadron's pride,
Shot like a rabbit in a ride!

No proposition Euclid wrote,
No formulae the text-books know,
Will turn the bullet from your coat,
Or ward the tulwar's downward blow
Strike hard who cares — shoot straight who can —
The odds are on the cheaper man.

One sword-knot stolen from the camp
Will pay for all the school expenses
Of any Kurrum Valley scamp
Who knows no word of moods and tenses,
But, being blessed with perfect sight,
Picks off our messmates left and right.

With home-bred hordes the hillsides teem,
The troop-ships bring us one by one,
At vast expense of time and steam,
To slay Afridis where they run.
The "captives of our bow and spear"
Are cheap — alas! as we are dear.

http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Arithmetic_on_the_Frontier


Note: This content is merged from two previous threads:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=post&forum=132&topic_id=8728075&mesg_id=8728075
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=8685600
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
vaberella Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-01-09 02:51 PM
Response to Original message
1. Well apparently we're withdrawing starting in 1.5 years---I think that's pretty fast.
What's your thoughts? I'm awaiting confirmation...but if it's true, I think that's pretty immediate.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
zulchzulu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-01-09 03:00 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. I look forward to what Obama says about the withdrawal timelines
I wait and see what he says before stating anything about it. Hopefully, this thread informs people about the intricacies that that region has and how it has to be international in scope and we can't be the only ones left holding the bag.

Having never been a fan of the Afghanistan War, I still support Obama's decision to try to wind it down... hopefully... no war can just be turned off like a video game.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
vaberella Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-01-09 03:04 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. Agreed. Alhtough sometimes on DU I'm given the impression that's what people think.n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
boppers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-02-09 05:58 AM
Response to Reply #1
20. We haven't left Germany or Japan yet.
Just a point of perspective.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
kestrel91316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-01-09 02:52 PM
Response to Original message
2. The Afghanistan War was a failure LONG before Obama ever got his hands on it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
apnu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-01-09 03:02 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. Yup, he's the man with the broom.
I think folks are still stressed out over the dark years of Bush and want all reminders of that erased. IMO, that's the fuel behind all the "bring the troops home tomorrow" people.

You can't just pull all that stuff we have over there out in a day. Regardless of the political consequences of how we get out, the logistics of pulling out are going to take a long time.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-01-09 03:53 PM
Response to Reply #4
9. Even the 'quickest' pullout requires at least 6 months.
That would be my ideal position, but, I know that would also become the perfect storm for an Afghani civil war that BushInc set in motion years ago and fueled throughout this occupation.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
zulchzulu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-01-09 03:04 PM
Response to Original message
6. Make sure to Unrec this if you are a toothless, clueless, batshit sloth n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
zulchzulu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-01-09 03:16 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. Apparently we have Freepers in here... not that I'm surprised... n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-01-09 03:44 PM
Response to Original message
8. Major props for one of the best written- elegantly organized and insightful pieces I've seen here
Edited on Tue Dec-01-09 04:03 PM by depakid
To date.

Gives us all a lot to think and feel about.

You already have credibility- everyone who reads your writing knows it.

Ethos, pathos and logos.

Those aren't the 3 Musketeers.

Or are they?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
zulchzulu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-01-09 07:41 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. Thanks for checking it out
I have come to the situation in Afghanistan with an open mind and have come to the conclusions I have based on simply doing some research and being able to back it up. Whether it makes people upset or not is not what I care about. The truth about the situation should be the only thing we should care about.

We'll see what happens.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-01-09 11:19 PM
Response to Reply #10
15. Thanks in return
Not only checked it out- I passed it along.

It was excellent.

Been a couple of those lately.



Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
HopeOverFear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-01-09 07:44 PM
Response to Original message
11. thanks, Zulch...I recced your thread. in your opinion...
is July 2011 soon enough?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
zulchzulu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-01-09 07:51 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. Thanks... and I wish it was sooner, but a timeline to make him keep is a good sign
Timelines are always soft, but a timeline to this madness at least is something that we can make sure happens.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-01-09 07:46 PM
Response to Original message
12. Let's not confuse people with the facts, shall we?
K&R

:kick:

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-01-09 07:47 PM
Response to Original message
13. knr nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Desertrose Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-02-09 01:10 AM
Response to Original message
16. Fascinating!
Well done!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
avaistheone1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-02-09 01:16 AM
Response to Original message
17. Great job with your research. I have been doing some digging
of my own and have come to the same conclusions.

I really appreciate the effort you put in to it. It must have taken a great deal of time.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
neshanic still Donating Member (106 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-02-09 01:30 AM
Response to Original message
18. Great post.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Major Hogwash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-02-09 05:16 AM
Response to Original message
19. Oustanding post, zulchzulu. Complete with facts and history and sources.
And not much blathering emotional crap about waving the flag.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
zulchzulu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-02-09 12:16 PM
Response to Original message
21. Thom Hartmann is talking about the TAPI pipeline! Now! n/t
Edited on Wed Dec-02-09 12:16 PM by zulchzulu
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tekisui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-02-09 12:22 PM
Response to Original message
22. knr
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Wed Apr 24th 2024, 11:27 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » General Discussion: Presidency Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC