Did Reid call their bluff?

[Writer]

http://abcnews.go.com/Business/wireStory?id=10425653

Republicans Soften Opposition to Financial Reform


The GOP is caving.

[Dr Fate]

1. I think we would get a better bill without much GOP involvement or input.

I could be wrong, but maybe the GOP is not "caving" so much as they are making sure that they are a part of the process.

I'd prefer to pass a strong bill with as little GOP input & participation as possible.

It wont happen this way, but I think the DEMS should just put forth a very strong very liberal bill, if most of the GOP opposes it, fine-it's their funeral.

There is really no need to involve the GOP and let them water this down in the name of "bi-partisanship"- but that is probably what will happen.

I dunno, but it's another angle to think about.

Oh yeah- and before the idiot guy compares me Frank Lutz or whoever- I want a LIBERAL BILL, not a bill that GOP strategists would approve of.

K&R for discussion purposes.

[Writer]

2. Yeah, but aren't THEY compromising, as well?

I mean, sure, the bill won't be as liberal with GOP input, but does this mean that the bill continues the neo-capitalist tendencies of the GOP? I don't think so... I think the GOP would be reaching even farther to compromise on financial reform so that they don't look entirely like the douchebags they are during an election year.

[Dr Fate]

24. Who needs them?

If we really wanted to (our Blue Dog masters do not)-we could pass a strong Liberal bill with just a few moderate GOPers that we strong arm.

Public support would force the very few needed GOP votes.

We dont need ANY far right input to make this happen, but the Blue Dogs will see that we get it-from them and their GOP allies.

[Cant trust em]

4. Can we get this through with less than 60 votes?

Can we use reconciliation to get it though? It doesn't affect the budget.

[karynnj]

12. I don't think so - you need to have language in a passed budget bill enabling it

It was there for health and education - so we were able to use reconciliation for the college loans part and the the fixes in the reconciliation bill.

[Dr Fate]

23. I concede that we will need a small handful of moderate GOP votes.

I think a creative, smart man like Obama can manage that.

What we dont need is far right GOP input. Far right Blue Dog input is quite enough, thank you.

[Cant trust em]

3. They know that they'll look like morons if they stymie this.

I wonder which of the elements of the larger bill will have to be eliminated to get a few GOP votes.

Agriculture committee just passed the derivatives regulation bill today with Chuck Grassley's vote.

[katandmoon]

5. Since when does the GOP ever cave? If they're "softening" then DEMS are caving.

[ShortnFiery]

6. +1. eom

[Writer]

7. The GOP as tough-ass alpha dog isn't going to last forever. n/t

[Teaser]

8. learned helplessness. you embody it.

look it up.

[Cant trust em]

11. There was an interesting article about that in Harper's a few weeks ago. nt

[katandmoon]

13. In denial. You embody it.

Look it up.

[Cant trust em]

10. Who exactly is caving over what?

Which are the provisions that are the sticking points?

Are they really necessary or is this just one of those things we need to stand up for on principle to show that we don’t want to get slapped around by the GOP?

[Dr Fate]

25. If we allow un-needed far right input, then it is a form of caving to the far right.

Maybe we see so much caving or arm twisting that favors Blue Dogs & conservative interests that we expect more of the same.

[Cant trust em]

26. What are those points of contention though?

I'm trying to think about specifics on what this legislation would look like and if we really need those items or not.

Is it the $50 billion "too big to fail" fund? Is that really crucial to give this bill teeth?

We can talk ourselves into circles all we want about making something liberal or keeping it from being conservative, but unless we know what those things are then this is all just philosophy.

[Dr Fate]

27. What does the Far Right want in the bill that you & I want in the bill?

The bill will probably be watered down enough by Blue Dogs as it is.

I dont see how the non-moderate GOPers have the standing, public support or power in numbers to even be part of the process.

The public wants this- we could easily scare a few GOPers into supporting a bill, even w/o GOP input. All they have to do is either agree with our strong, electorate popular bill, or face the consequences come election time.

Remember how hard the Blue Dogs fought to get the GOP on board w/ HRC? It did not happen, and the Blue Dogs had to take the blame for their conservative corporate mandate/anti PO positions w/ zero GOP cover. Some say we even got a stronger bill because we went ahead w/o GOP support. Makes sense to me.

It probably wont happen that way this time, as the GOP cant afford to be seen as being fully opposed to this. Their best bet is to join in and help the Blue Dogs in watering it down and making it more acceptable to our multi-national corporate masters.

It will play out with GOP INPUt as well as support-the Blue Dogs will see to it- I'm just making it clear to you that I see the game here.

[Cant trust em]

28. The game is clear, but I'm moving on to policy.

The CFPA will likely get into the legislation, doesn't sound like they're carping too much about that. I'd rather have it not be housed within the Fed who already missed the last boat.

I'm glad that the derivative bill made it through the agriculture committee (with Grassley's vote nonetheless). Putting them into a clearinghouse should add the transparency that was lacking previously.

While the $50B "too big to fail" fund paid by the biggest banks sounds great, it could mess with the markets. Are those threats big enough to pull it out? I'm not sure.

If the republicans want some of those things to be taken out, I'm not sure if that will weaken the bill to the point of making it unworthy of support. I'm far from a policy expert but I do think it's more than just liberalism vs. conservatism.

[Dr Fate]

29. Fair enough. Enjoy your GOP "support." I'd prefer the best bill possible-one w/o them.

I'd rather see more DEMS calling for a strategy that involves a "take it or leave" approach as to the GOP, as opposed to the Blue Dog/GOP game that you acknowledge as fact.

Why is a situation where the GOP is allowed to "weaken the bill" even acceptable to you? It's not even necessary- unless we are just too tired to stand up to the Blue Dogs & GOP.

But since folks like you are ready to "move on" w/o much question or fight, I guess the Blue Dogs will get their way again, as usual. Just as I predicted.

Go DEMS/GOP!!!!

[Cant trust em]

30. You're missing the point. Without a focus on the policy, this is just a cartoon.

I like the guy in the white hat. I don't like the guy in the black hat with the twisty moustache.

[Dr Fate]

31. I love you, but yours is a bull shit translation of my points & goals.

If we had the will to fight the Blue Dogs as to their constant longing for GOP cover (We certainly have the public support to do it), then we dont even need GOP input in this bill. At least not much. I say we could actually do it with none.

We dont need to water it down at all. I am talking POLICY here. We dont need watered down policy, and we dont need policy removed or weakened by the right.

To a degree, all we need to do is say "Here is our bill-the public supports it. Take it or leave it."

I'm totally focused on policy here- and I wish you would join me in keeping the Blue Dogs from turning over POLICY concerns to the far right.

[Cant trust em]

32. I don't even know if all of the current policies we have are good ones.

I totally understand what you're saying. Sounds like you're talking mostly about the politics of getting the legislation through and I'm thinking more about what those policies are.

I'm sorry, but I don't think I've been doing a very good job of listening to what you're actually saying. I've just been talking about what I feel like talking about.

[Dr Fate]

33. I AGREE! As a said, the Blue Dogs will steer this right as it is.

And you are still part wrong about what I'm saying- I'm not just talking about how to get a good bill through-I'm also talking about what policy is going to be in that bill. The less we allow the GOP to water down the policy therein, the better.

I dont even think getting it through-watered down or strong, is even an issue.

[Cant trust em]

34. Yes. I would prefer not to water down the bill.

But are there circumstances where taking something out would strengthen it? I don't know. Maybe there are.

I'm far from an expert, but I've read a few articles and listened to a few podcasts and I wonder if some of the ideas that are in the bill are good at all. Maybe they sound good, but would actually screw things up. I'm trying to learn what's what here. Is it just the usual GOP piss and moan, or do they actually have a point?

[Dr Fate]

35. I can respect that. I'm no expert either.

I get what you are saying too.

[Cant trust em]

36. Man. That conversation took a lot longer than it needed to.

What have you been up to recently?

[Dr Fate]

37. Well, you may have noticed that I have not been on DU in months!

This week was my first dabble.

Just working & shit.

Are you staying or leaving the area?

Guess what- we may move to The Mission in just a few weeks. About 90% on that.

If so, that means we can do much more hanging out.

Sorry for not getting with you lately, nothing personal, trust me, I'm just REALLY, REALLY lazy and I hardly ever leave the hood...

[Cant trust em]

38. You can come here as we're moving.

I got into UCLA, so we're going to be heading south.

I've been super busy recently with planning the wedding and getting school stuff together. Not a lot of weekends in the city.

I haven't been on DU much either. I usually hang out in the lounge.

Do you guys have an apartment scoped out already?

[Dr Fate]

39. R's Siss lives there, and it's 90% that she will move out.

Her land lord is her friend, so we get the apt. if she moves. As big as what we already have plus Back yard patio w/ grill & all!

GOOD LUCK to you & your Finance! I know you guys will tear it up down South...

To the OP- sorry for hi-jacking your thread w/ personal talk-but at least we kicked your thread!!!

[Cant trust em]

40. Where is the apartment?

Patio and grill will be priceless.

[DCBob]

9. This is politics more than anything. The GOPers know they cant demonize this issue like healthcare.

Main Sreet hates Wall Street. But never-the-less I like what Harry did.

[ChimpersMcSmirkers]

14. Sessions was Mr. Cordial on NPR today.

[Clio the Leo]

15. See what we can get done when the GOP STOPS the BS!!!

And WHY are the Dems polling so poorly in spite of this? grrrr.

[applegrove]

16. The longer the financial reform bill is the topic of the day the more often

GOP ties to the financial industry, and their coziness with the industry, will make the news. The more often it makes the news the more support the GOP looses.

I hope this is a long and contentious battle in congress. I hope it goes on until October.

[AlinPA]

17. The republicans will not cooperate. They are playing games and they will filibuster.

Remember that "We hope he fails" is their battle cry. (In committee for HCR, Grassley voted for progress but in the end voted No on everything.)

[BlooInBloo]

18. No. Reid filing for cloture an hour or so ago was calling their bluff.

[DCBob]

19. The bill is coming to the floor for a test vote on Monday..

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/04/22/AR2010042203650.html

Cheers to Harry the Bulldog!

[Cha]

20. Harry can certainly tout this in Nevada

while Sue touts her chickens for health care theory.

[DCBob]

21. I think Ole Harry has found his stride.. He's like a new man...

maybe on Viagra on something.. ;)

[Cha]

22. Or chicken lady

at his heels. :o

BTW..I hope his wife and daughter are healing and on the mend from their freak accident.