Fact: If it were Bush who Ordered the CIA to Kill Americans...all of DU would be up in arms

[Bullet1987]

WOW! Everyday I come on this board, especially this section...I'm amazed at the level of "follow the leader" mentality some have for Democratic leaders. Partisanship is much stronger than I used to think it was. It causes people to find an excuse in everything and believe the same groups that have BS'ed the public for years. On paper, Obama's new directive is meant to only target "terrorists." That's all well and good, but why the CIA? Why not the FBI? Since when does the CIA work within our borders (admittedly I mean)? What's to stop a directive like this from expanding and including those inconvient Americans that speak out? Or whistleblowers?

Let me put it another way, I don't trust our government. Bush woke me up from the American Dream, and Obama seems to be pouring ice cold water on me to keep me wide awake. Our nation is in decline, anyone who is not blind can see that. The distribution of wealth hasn't been so bad since the Gilded Age. Things are getting worse and worse, yet our media still talks about irrelevant things and people still buy into politicians bullcrap. I mean, there's a LOT of willful ignorance going around on both sides. It seems like Liberals have all but given up and don't even challenge the Party leaders anymore. I'm thinking seriously about going Indie and ridding myself of the Left-Right paradigm altogether. I don't think Obama is a bad man, but he's not what the base thought he'd be. I'm also beginning to doubt any real Progressive ever has a chance of getting into the White House. They just won't let it happen.

[Robb]

1. OMG YOU"RE RIGHT!

:D

[defendandprotect]

2. Of course . . . Clinton/Obama may get more right wing stuff passed that Repugs could-!?

[ieoeja]

3. No. We just wouldn't rush to defend Bush against the attacks.

Ignoring attacks is not the same as approving of them.

Not exactly the same, but remember that kid who went off to join the Taliban in the Afghan civil war long before 9-11 and suddenly found himself facing US soldiers and not knowing what to do? Many (almost all) DUers at the time would have thought nothing about him having been killed by ground forces, bombs dropping, drone attack, whatever.

Once he was captured and his story got out, there was quite a large fight here on DU between those who wanted him jailed for treason and those who felt he had been unfairly caught by circumstances beyond his control.

I think it is safe to say those who wanted a kid jailed for treason he did not set out to commit would be equally in support of GW approving directed assassination of an American Al Qaeda or Taliban operative overseas. Even some on the "caught by circumstances" side might very well approve of this given that this man set out with the intent of fighting a war against the United States.

[damntexdem]

4. Isn't that pretty much the case with the Obama order?

And I am sure that Dubya did do so, just didn't admit it publicly.

[phleshdef]

5. Good thing Obama didn't order anyone to kill any Americans.

[vaberella]

8. Shhh...I found many people on this board are allergic to the truth.

:D

[Cha]

25. I know..WTF! That's how

ugly rumors get started..somebody says it and all of a sudden it's Obama VS bush!

OMFG! Oh, and fuck bush and I thank President Obama everyday for being who he is and where he is.

[Arkana]

6. We're not talking about some schmoe who works on Wall Street

and ran afoul of the CIA.

This guy works with terrorists. He has orchestrated terrorist plots against America. He helped the Christmas Day bomber AND Major Hasan.

I'm not going to lose any sleep if he takes a bullet in the head.

[Name removed]

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[Sebastian Doyle]

14. Nobody who works on Wall Street could ever "run afoul of the CIA"

Who do you think the CIA really works for? Harry Truman called them a tool of Wall Street bankers in the beginning, and he was correct in doing so. Of course the specific Wall Street bankers in question were the same bunch who brought us the Great Depression, Adolf Hitler, and the attempted coup against FDR. Or in other words, the Bush Crime Family and their associates like the Harrimans, the Brown Brothers, etc.

These sons of bitches have committed far more treasonous crimes against this country than any flunkie for a mostly fictional (completely fictional when it comes to the non existent Yemeni branch) terraist organization. Which, by the way IS a branch office of the CIA.

[robertpaulsen]

19. An elephant? In MY living room?! Surely you jest!

Thanks for going straight to the heart of the matter: covert operations.

[Moochy]

26. Thump

That chest... O thou brave, brave patriot! :patriot:

[Raine1967]

7. I never stopped trusting our Government -- I distrusted the last President.

and his actions. There was a lot to distrust. That said: there is a difference between Bush and Obama. It's called motive.

If you choose to distrust our government because of the actions of the last administration , then that is an altogether different discussion. Obama is not Bush -- and if that is what you are trying to infer, then that is rather dishonest from a point of debate, imo.

Not all administrations are the same. Bush may have woken you up-- but if all you learned was to distrust government, I think you may have more things to deal with than equating the POresident we have now to the former person who held office.

Try not conflating your distrust of government with the person who is the POTUS. It's really a big difference. I know -- I was awake a long time before the last administration -- I never had to wake up.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

9. Shhhhhh....

You'll make their heads explode! :wow:



Can you say, "Hypocrites?" :eyes:

[PBS Poll-435]

10. (facepalm)

Apologies to Bloo.

[WeDidIt]

12. Not this fuck

There were some things Bush did that I supported.

Going into Afghanistan was the right move at the right time. He later fucked that up, but I supported, and still support, the move to go into Afghanistan in the wake of 9/11.

The bank bailout was the right move. I supported Bush doing that, too.

Had Bush ordered this fuckhead to be killed or captured, I would have supported that move, too. He is no different at all from U.S. citizens who went to Germany to join the Wermacht during World War II, and we killed hundreds of those fucks.

[PBS Poll-435]

13. I totally fucking agree

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

15. +1

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

16. DU isn't up in arms?!

I reject the very premise of the argument.

[Phx_Dem]

17. Speak for yourself. The person giving the order doesn't determine my support for it.

[high density]

18. I don't trust the government either

But if some guy over in Yemen, US Citizen or not, wants to kill us, I have no problem with my government taking him out. I don't care who the president is. That feeling stands for all of the Timothy McVeigh-wannabes out there too.

[Moochy]

27. In gd:p

Obama gets a pass on everything.

[Aramchek]

20. Bush did. One example is Adam Gadahn. Where were your arms then?

[vaberella]

21. I never even heard about him. n/t

[TwilightGardener]

22. Not really. I had no problem with AQ members being killed or captured.

I mean, really. If it's wrong to conduct broad warfare against terror groups (and taking out many innocent civilians in the process and wrecking their country), and we can't narrowly target certain individuals, who are plotting to kill us from foreign soil, with a capture/kill authorization--what do we have left as effective defense from further attack?

[AuntPatsy]

23. I'm beginning to doubt your sincerity period....but I do not doubt that President

Obama is doing what he can in a world that more than likely very few of us could survive or get accomplished what he has to date, granted, I am not satisfied but then again I am neither an opportunist or a person who needs instant gratification but more of a realist with the realization that "rome" nor the "Sphinx" was built in one day nor would I at present have the tools to accomplish either feat and a hope that the simplicity of this response is easy enough for some to understand.

What exactly would you do differently?

I would like to add that I think you do get it, your very last sentence at least looks to me like you realize what not only we are up against but anyone who finds themselve president of "these" United states...and since you do seem to get it, can you honestly believe that chasing down and constantly swatting away at President Obama is going to do any good any good at all?

[Hansel]

24. Some of us are more nuanced in our thinking and know Bush and Obama

are not the same person and make decisions with completely different intents, and at a completely different level of reasoning.

We also know that the media lies its ass off and uses the most negative and hyperbolic language in its description of anything Democrats do-usually straight off the Repub talking points for the day. I'll wait for the facts, thank you, before I start freaking out.

But I'm much more likely to trust Obama in his judgment than Bush, so yes, I would tend to side with him more. I don't think that Obama was involved in executing over 100 of his fellow citizens (the most of any governor) nor do I remember him blatantly lying us into a war where likely millions were killed.

So spare me the self-righteous dichotomous reasoning and lecture. That's a trick from the right and from people who can only think in black and white.

[Moochy]

28. Dichotomy ... How about dead vs alive?

We dems prefer our terrorists Murdered *with* state approval!

[mkultra]

29. nuance is the hallmark of lefties. It makes it clear that the op isnt one

thats how you know.

[spoony]

30. Yeah, real "lefties" fall in line behind their President

No matter what, like you.



....bwahahahaha, I couldn't type that straight-faced, sorry. Nuance is not the same thing as "rationalisation."

[Name removed]

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[Odin2005]

33. Compassion and respect for human rights is the hallmark of Lefties.

Righties can do a lot of "nuance", too, when it comes to justifying BS.

[ShortnFiery]

35. Or you? Gee, as a lefty I think there are certain "absolutes" like DO NOT MURDER.

Of all things that don't lend themselves to nuance, I think the "murder" clause would qualify.

[Odin2005]

32. Some things ARE black and white.

And trying to argue otherwise is simply rationalizing things.

[depakid]

36. Some of us are nuanced enough to know a little about the rule of law

and why measures like this- whatever the reasoning may be behind them, set dangerous precedents that come back to bite folks in myriad ways down the line.

History will NOT be kind to this administration and its "Justice" Department.

[Name removed]

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[HughMoran]

37. yes, it is true

too bad the body of your post is snide and demeaning

[branders seine]

38. Give me a "D"!!!

Yay team!

[Name removed]

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