Glenn Beck, Michele Bachmann & Sarah Palin Should be Arrested, Charged and Imprisoned Under Title 18

[Turborama]

They have recently used language which could easily be construed that they are indeed inciting and engaging in rebellion/insurrection against the authority of the United States.


Here are the relevant sections...

TITLE 18—CRIMES AND CRIMINAL PROCEDURE

§ 2383. Rebellion or insurrection

Whoever incites, sets on foot, assists, or engages in any rebellion or insurrection against the authority of the United States or the laws thereof, or gives aid or comfort thereto, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.

§ 2384. Seditious conspiracy

If two or more persons in any State or Territory, or in any place subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, conspire to overthrow, put down, or to destroy by force the Government of the United States, or to levy war against them, or to oppose by force the authority thereof, or by force to prevent, hinder, or delay the execution of any law of the United States, or by force to seize, take, or possess any property of the United States contrary to the authority thereof, they shall each be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both.

§ 2385. Advocating overthrow of Government

Whoever knowingly or willfully advocates, abets, advises, or teaches the duty, necessity, desirability, or propriety of overthrowing or destroying the government of the United States or the government of any State, Territory, District or Possession thereof, or the government of any political subdivision therein, by force or violence, or by the assassination of any officer of any such government;

or

Whoever, with intent to cause the overthrow or destruction of any such government, prints, publishes, edits, issues, circulates, sells, distributes, or publicly displays any written or printed matter advocating, advising, or teaching the duty, necessity, desirability, or propriety of overthrowing or destroying any government in the United States by force or violence, or attempts to do so;

or

Whoever organizes or helps or attempts to organize any society, group, or assembly of persons who teach, advocate, or encourage the overthrow or destruction of any such government by force or violence; or becomes or is a member of, or affiliates with, any such society, group, or assembly of persons, knowing the purposes thereof—

Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both, and shall be ineligible for employment by the United States or any department or agency thereof, for the five years next following his conviction.

If two or more persons conspire to commit any offense named in this section, each shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both, and shall be ineligible for employment by the United States or any department or agency thereof, for the five years next following his conviction.

As used in this section, the terms “organizes” and “organize”, with respect to any society, group, or assembly of persons, include the recruiting of new members, the forming of new units, and the regrouping or expansion of existing clubs, classes, and other units of such society, group, or assembly of persons.

Here's the latest evidence against them (please add more if you can remember other similar incidents)...


Beck's "war": Fox host responds to passage of health care reform with violent rhetoric
http://mediamatters.org/research/201003230062

(Also posted here by Ichingcarpenter)

-

Bachmann: We're Not Going To Obey Health Care Law -- 'We Don't Have To' (VIDEO)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ENU-I1wqrSM

(TPM article on this posted here by Joanne98)

-

Sarah Palin Inciting Violence With Her Online Postings (VIDEO)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2yzRvNQo_U

(Also posted here by Hissyspit)

-

Seems like their incitement is starting to bear fruit, too: Vandals hit at least five Dem offices nationwide, threaten to ‘assassinate’ children of pro-reform lawmakers

As an added bonus, if found guilty of these crimes they will have their citizenship revoked...

8 U.S.C. § 1481 : US Code - Section 1481: Loss of nationality by native-born or naturalized citizen; voluntary action; burden of proof; presumptions

=snip=

(7) committing any act of treason against, or attempting by
force to overthrow, or bearing arms against, the United States,
violating or conspiring to violate any of the provisions of
section 2383 of title 18, or willfully performing any act in
violation of section 2385 of title 18, or violating section 2384
of title 18 by engaging in a conspiracy to overthrow, put down,
or to destroy by force the Government of the United States, or to
levy war against them, if and when he is convicted thereof by a
court martial or by a court of competent jurisdiction.

Are there any lawyers on DU who know if there's a good case here and, if so, how to make sure they face these charges?

-

ETA After rereading paragraph 2 of § 2385, there have been several posts in freeperville which are covered under this law, too. A quick search using DU's search engine should find the ones I'm referring to...

[secondwind]

1. K&R...am sure there's a couple of good attorney out there somewhere!

[vaberella]

3. I'm waiting for Cuomo to say something---anything. n/t

[glinda]

35. Some one needs to charge them and it should be done asap.

[vaberella]

2. Why did I read this as they WERE arrested?!

Major wishful thinking... I agree with the OP. This is not freedom of speech. These people are inciting violence against our President.

[Turborama]

7. LOL you made me read it again to double check I hadn't said that

Seriously, though, I agree with you, it's about breaking the law by inciting the already whipped up rabid mobs. These three and their colleagues have been pushing the boundary and ratcheting up the dangerous rhetoric for over a year. But now they've got away with it for so long they reckon they can get away with anything and they've got to be stopped before it's too late.

[Joanne98]

4. If someboy gets shot the family should sue Palin to DEATH!

[perdita9]

17. Put her in front of a Death Panel

...let a judge dressed like the Grim Reaper explain to her that you can't claim to love your country and work to overthrow the government at the same time.

Not that Caribou Barbie will get it but we can try.

[dchill]

79. Unfortunately...

(Fortunately!) Death panels don't really exist. She made it up!

[beac]

80. They DO exist, but they are run by the insurance companies whose profits Palin and the GOP

are so desperate to protect.

Lucky for Palin, she and her whole brood get FREE (socialist!) health care b/c her husband is 1/8 Native American.

She's such so very, very lucky that one cannot die from rank hypocrisy.

[MassLiberal]

5. K&R

[ihavenobias]

6. Beck is the one that worries me.

He has the biggest megaphone and incites the most violence.

[Turborama]

8. And what a huge megaphone he has

His show isn't just shown across America, it's beamed around the world (the Pakistan distribution has increased dramatically since the last time I looked, too).

It seems like Beck has taken the baton that Palin handed him during the election campaign.

[tekisui]

31. And he is too stupid to understand what he is doing.

He is playing a dancing-monkey money game, clueless of what effect he may be having.

[nxylas]

59. You're too kind

He knows exactly what he's doing.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

9. Meet the new boss, same as the old boss

This post is the summation of what we just spent eight years resisting

[treestar]

21. OP quoted the statutes themselves and asked if there was a case

I don't see a problem with that. And it may be possible to violate those statutes, and the wingnuts may be going to those extremes. It depends on the facts.

Bush had those no speech zones and crap like that - and weren't people arrested or looked into for saying things that were hardly qualifying under the above statutes? But those people were not going as far as Palin and ilk.

[MadMaddie]

39. I don't recall Republicans getting bricks thrown through their

windows or gaslines cut or childrens lives threatened.

Not this is something very different from the previous 8 years. Don't forget our supporters were herded into pens while protesting *. They were arrested for wearing the wrong shirts.

These people are openly carryning weapons around our political leaders.

[Codeine]

47. +1

I'm not liking some of what I'm hearing around here lately.

[Turborama]

50. No it isn't

Unless of course you were advocating breaking the law during the past 8 years. What we resisted over Busch's 8 year reign was totally different. Wrongfully being accused of breaking the law and being charged for it is not the same as actually breaking the law and getting away with it.

That "Meet the new boss, same as the old boss" slogan is lame and is totally irrelevant and inappropriate in these circumstances.

[GoCubsGo]

71. Not to mention...

It also plays right into their bullshit about Obama being a "Nazi" who is going to round them all up and put them into "FEMA camps." The only way to stop these fucks is in the pocketbook. Don't patronize those who advertise on their shows. Remind The Discovery Channel that they will lose viewership (and therefore, ratings) if they proceed with a reality show featuring a woman who is fomenting violence against her fellow citizens. This all boils down to money, and the sponsors of these assclowns are more concerned about losing it than they are of anything else.

[jillan]

10. Add O'Reilly to that list - "Tiller the Baby Killer"

Unfortunately that one came to fruition.

[Bluerthanblue]

11. does anyone think that arrests wouldn't have been made if

these same actions were done by "our side" under the Bush presidency?




My biggest problem with 'sarcasm' and 'satire' is that there are far too many people who either don't get it, or who do and use it to do things they know are wrong and then claim ignorance when caught.

[Cha]

14. During the bush years..people with anti bush signs

at his rallies were arrested. Teachers were fired.

[meeshrox]

74. Wait, what?

I think this goes beyond satire or sarcasm. This stuff did not happen from "our side" under Bush. Holding a sign in protest to the war is different from cutting someone's gas line! But, if these same actions were taken, yes, they should have been arrested.

I agree with you that Beck hiding behind "satire" is irrelevant if his audience has never heard the word! I don't think that argument would hold in court if someone were to charge him. It's a poor excuse for inaction if that is why he hasn't been charged.

[Turborama]

12. Reps Clyburn And Hoyer Discuss The Safety Of Congress Members After A Series Of Recent Threats (Vid)

Things are really starting to get out of hand when Congress members need to ramp up their security like this, the look of concern in their faces is palpable: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...



This sedition needs to be stamped out NOW before it's too late, and the best place to start is with the inciters!

[Cha]

15. Thanks Turbo, got this from Tim Kaine today..

Cha --

We need to act.

On Sunday night, many Congressional Democrats in tough districts cast courageous votes for health reform -- even though they knew that insurance companies and their Republican allies would retaliate immediately.

Well, the attacks are here. Shameful, negative ads have already hit the airwaves. Democratic offices have been vandalized. Republicans are promising to repeal reform and smearing those who supported it.

But we're ready to do what it takes to defend the heroes who made health reform possible.

These are the men and women who stood with us and the President to make good on a promise that our Party has fought to deliver for a century. And we will not leave them hanging out to dry.

Please chip in $5 or more to defend those in Congress who fought to make health reform possible?

These are the people who worked hand in hand with President Obama and grassroots Democrats to finally bring affordable coverage to 32 million more Americans, enact the toughest insurance regulations in history, and bring down costs for families, small businesses, and our government.

At a time of historic achievement for our country, Republicans and the extreme right wing are responding by pushing fear and intimidation.

They've launched a campaign to "fire" Nancy Pelosi, complete with imagery of the first female Speaker of the House surrounded by flames. Congresswoman Louise Slaughter had a brick thrown through her office window. A Virginia blog posted Congressman Tom Perriello's home address, urging tea partiers to "drop by."

The Democratic National Committee is already fighting back hard, with a sophisticated ad strategy, events on the ground, and the best rapid-response program in the history of politics. But we need your help to keep it up.

Please chip in $5 or more:

http://my.democrats.org/Heroes

If we learned one thing from the fight for health reform, it's this: Hope can triumph over fear, the truth can beat out the most vicious of lies, and our movement, organized, can overcome even the most powerful of opponents. Let's not stop now.

Thanks,

Governor Tim Kaine
Chairman

I think it's sweet how $5.00 would be welcome and I'm going to do it to show my support..if every Dem did who thought the extremists' attacks were not acceptable then they'd have quite a bit to get their positive ads out.

Give Color For Change a donation too.

[Cha]

13. Thank you so much for getting involved in

this, Turbo! You're helping tremendously in not letting this go.

These people will keep pushing the hatemongering and inciting violence way past the limit if not held accountable.

[athenasatanjesus]

16. I'm sure these people feel some liberals should be arrested under the same title..

..for hate speech whenever a liberal preaches about social justice and equality.

[flakey_foont]

18. throw in Coulter, Limbaugh and Hannity

as well...

[beac]

19. Have you seen what Palin posted on her PAC site?:

This after Twittering "Don't retreat-- RELOAD!"

[Whisp]

22. those aren't registration marks, those are rifle crosshairs.

and with 'reload', yes, thats inciting violence I'd say. and its not even dogwhistle style.

wtf?

[nxylas]

62. But it's JUST deniable enough that they can get away with it

Palin's handlers are smart enough (even though she isn't) to not come right out and say "Kill them!" They leave just enough ambiguity that they can say "All we mean is that these lawmakers should be targeted in November's election".

[lovekendyl]

23. Palin is a piece of crap

call discovery channel

[Tx4obama]

26. There's a boycott Discovery Channel petition online somewhere that I saw earlier n/t

[madamesilverspurs]

24. Twisted, isn't it?

My Congresswoman, Betsy Markey, is targetted. Of course, dear Sarah is good buddies with the woman Markey replaced, Marilyn Musgrave. In her unsuccessful bid for a third term, Musgrave even campaigned as "Colorado's own Sarah Palin". These days, the two of them pal around with Michelle Bachmann and Virginia Foxx, abusing the name and memory of Susan B. Anthony to promote their neanderthal views. As soon as the news broke that Palin had put out her target list I knew that Markey would be on it.

---

[dmr]

56. Isn't Musgrave the one who didn't concede when she lost? n/t

[madamesilverspurs]

72. Yep, she's the one.

(Love your little kitty, by the way)

-

[Glimmer of Hope]

29. She knows exactly who she is appealing to. I bet she won't retract her statement,

[Bobbie Jo]

78. Even if she did, you can't "unring" that bell. nt

[tekisui]

32. She better hope nothing happens to anyone on her

target practice list.

[beac]

40. The gas line was cut at Tom Perriello's brother's house:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...


Someone IS going to get hurt by these sick bastards.

[meeshrox]

75. They're not even being subtle anymore...

[greencharlie]

20. mehhhh...

not so much... remember the shoe may be on the other foot some day and I don't want some Nazi knocking on my door and executing me for looking at DU or putting a bumper sticker on my car. Freedom of the speech is exactly that UNTIL someone actually comes out and says "burn the mother fucking place down"... or REAL bad stuff.

But all this dog-whistle stuff... mehhhhh.

[beac]

28. The OP isn't discussing bumper stickers.

The gas line at Tom Perriello's brother's house was cut after the head of the Lynchburg Tea Party published the address on his blog and encouraged his readers to "drop by" and add a "personal touch" to their anger at Perriello's pro-HCR vote.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...


So, yeah, someone DID try to "burn the mother fucking place down." I'd call that REAL bad stuff, wouldn't you?

[dmr]

57. and called it 'collateral damage' when told he had the brother's address

What exactly did he mean by collateral damage?

I believe those advocating violence, then say they didn't mean it - in some dark place in their being really did mean it.

[fascisthunter]

44. Cutting Someone's Gas Line Due to Rhetoric, isn't a "dog whistle"... it's an invite

for more to do the same. It's more than words, it's action that can easily be linked to words. We are beyond semantics.

[tledford]

81. Really interesting post completely unrelated to the original post.

But that is commonplace on freerepublic.com, and I suppose old habits die hard.

[truthrocks]

25. EXCELLENT POST! Thanks for the research - now what can we DO?

[harkadog]

27. Title 18 doesn't apply.

Courts have always ruled words must contain immediate and specific threats. Not general language. I know many on DU will try and say these words apply but there is not a prosecutor in the country that would agree.

[onenote]

46. +1

[Turborama]

48. Watch this video...

Particularly from 07:09 onwards: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pNHZNYoy5tk

Also posted here: Rachel Maddow On The Republican Base's Violent Intimidation Tactics & The GOP's Culpability

Michele Bachmann:

"THOMAS JEFFERSON SAID, A REVOLUTION NOW AND THEN IS A GOOD THING. WE ARE AT THAT POINT, SEAN, OF REVOLUTION."

"AND REALLY NOW IN WASHINGTON I'M A FOREIGN CORRESPONDENT IN ENEMY LINES. I WANT PEOPLE IN MINNESOTA ARMED AND DANGEROUS"

This isn't a matter of subjectivism, Bachmann (and others) has definitively broken the law.

-

Again, this is what the law states:

§ 2383. Rebellion or insurrection

Whoever INCITES, sets on foot, assists, or engages in any rebellion or insurrection against the authority of the United States or the laws thereof, or gives aid or comfort thereto, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.



§ 2385. Advocating overthrow of Government

Whoever knowingly or willfully ADVOCATES, abets, ADVISES, or TEACHES the duty, necessity, desirability, or propriety of overthrowing or destroying the government of the United States or the government of any State, Territory, District or Possession thereof, or the government of any political subdivision therein, by force or violence, or by the assassination of any officer of any such government;

-

[harkadog]

51. Doesn't fit. Sorry

If it did tens of thousands of anti-war protesters in the 60s would have been arrested and charged with those crimes. And nobody was. The words have to be specific, actionable and immediate. "Let's go seize City Hall right now!" might work and even that might not be enough. The words you have cited go no where under the law.

[Turborama]

58. That analogy doesn't fit

"tens of thousands of anti-war protesters in the 60s" incited "rebellion or insurrection against the authority of the United States or the laws thereof"? They may have took part in protests, but as far as tens of thousands "inciting", I don't think so.

The kegal definition of incite:

to instigate, persuade, or move another to commit a crime
http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/incite

I'm sure that those who were caught inciting were arrested and charged, though.

To paraphrase lawmaker Rep. Chris Van Hollen's answer to Chris Matthews who asked him if the incitement is criminal: It's a very dangerous game, people have to draw their own conclusions. People can characterize it how they want but the people we are discussing are stoking the flames.

He also said that Palin has "crossed the line" with her RELOAD comment linked to a map with cross hairs on it. I assume he's referring to crossing the incitement line.

Interview here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZbeV5PYxskI

And posted here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

[onenote]

73. it fits perfectly

People (like me) marched in the streets om the 60ss calling for revolution and resistance and for shutting down the government in the 60s. Some people took those calls to heart and did violent acts, like bombing the Capitol. Those who committed violent acts were, as they should have been, held responsible. Those who marched and shouted and held up signs and posters, some of them very provocative and distasteful -- certainly as provocative and distasteful as palin's "target" poster -- regarded their speech as protected and for the most part were treated as such.

[nxylas]

64. It's what they're counting on

It's Mafia tactics (by which I mean the movie Mafia, I don't know anything about the real Mafia): the low-level "muscle" ends up taking the fall while the Godfathers (and mothers) remain untouchable. Meanwhile, they are probably praying that someone tries to prosecute, so they can squeal about how the godless librul elite is persecuting Real Americans just for loving motherhood, apple pie and the little baby Jesus.

[meeshrox]

76. Thank you!

I've been trying to find out through other threads exactly when the feds can step in...

I thought that there must be a direct and specific threat. There's not much that we can do until something "happens" and punish the responsible party, like with the cut gas line in VA.

[Beaverhausen]

30. they would wear it as a badge of honor

why bother with those idiots?

[Barbara2423]

33. Let's boycott Discovery Channel & Sponsors of Palin's Show

I'm not surprised by her behavior those of us who know the signals knew she is a racist. Let's not let this go on, we can do it in a peaceful manner.

[EJSTES2005]

38. And Let's NOT

watch her show. If pills, insannity, and the wolf killer lost 1/2 the haters ( i know because i am one of them) who listen/watch, their ratings would be cut in half. Should just watch or listen to them online if you must. At least they don't get paid for youtube viewers......

[catgirl]

77. Sign the boycott Discovery Channel petition

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/21/boycott-the-discovery...

[Political Bitch]

34. And Solomon Forell...

Let's not forget his tweet to others to 'drop Obama like a bad habit' and 'if you have a clear shot, take it'. I mean, how much more obvious could it be with ASSASSINATION written across the top of the first tweet, and that we would surely survive Obama being killed as we had survived Kennedy and Lincoln? If that doesn't qualify, I don't know what might.

[HughMoran]

36. Tone it down, or prepare for trial & the ultimate punishment

This. Is. Not. A. Game.

[orbitalman]

37. I'm beginning to wonder whether there are ANY civil repugs...

out there. Also, to me, the "criminality of this incivility is overwhelming.

[GoddessOfGuinness]

41. There are...But they are shamefully silent.

Maybe it's because they are scared shitless.

[GoddessOfGuinness]

42. If they wouldn't arrest Bushco for the war based on lies

why would they bother with their juvenile delinquent cronies?

[Shining Jack]

54. Some kind of scapegoating to satisfy the masses ?

They are less untouchable than the Bushites.But frankly I don't think that even that will ever happen either.

[GoddessOfGuinness]

83. Maybe after 20 years or so...

[Turborama]

43. Tweety & Rep. Chris Van Hollen discussed the GOP's culpability earlier, I've posted the video...

In the videos forum: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

[Cha]

49. Thanks, Turbo!

[FrenchieCat]

52. Thank you for that!

[valerief]

45. Sounds good to me! nt

[samsingh]

53. agreed

[falcon97]

55. Punishment?

Anyone know what the result of a conviction would be?

[Turborama]

61. Maximum sentences are mentioned in the OP. If convicted they'd also lose their citizenship n/t

[RayStar]

82. Gitmo

They should be stripped naked and sent to Gitmo. Where is she hiding out anyway? I hope and pray that old man John loses his seat in the US senate.

[pundaint]

60. They certainly are taking it right up to the line + or -. This is a case where triangulation might

be appropriate. Try the war criminals, give the revolutionaries something to ----- about. The think was missing in honor of them.

[joentokyo]

63. Forget Beck Deport Murdoch

Why try to kill a snake by cutting off its tail? Use these statues to send Rupert Murdoch back to Australia.

[ClayZ]

65. Please, Please, Please...

K and R

[NecklyTyler]

66. We need to block the effectiveness of the enablers - a little Fairness Doctrine to slow Talk Radio

The non-stop indoctrination of the idiot masses on the right is going to cause a boil-over in society. The right wing hate talkers are grooming their audiences to 'Take Action' against the 'Evil Left'. People like Beck are setting up code words to incite their listeners to riot in the streets.

With a Fairness Doctrine, at least we could insert cooling off periods in the right wing brain washing

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

69. The Fairness Doctrine would not keep them off the air...

A complete loss of advertising would.

[NecklyTyler]

67. K&R

[iamthebandfanman]

68. they should be sent to FEMA camps lol n/t

[Machineland]

70. How to Make a Citizen's Arrest

Found this link..thought it might help on this topic....

http://www.wikihow.com/Make-a-Citizen\'s-Arrest

[mstinamotorcity]

84. If anyone had done any

of the things to Dubya they would pay with the ultimate price. Ask Dixie Chicks,Valarie Plame,Sadaam Hussein,hell ask Democratic members.

[hughee99]

87. Exactly, I remember when all of them were prosecuted

for treason, sedition and inciting violence by the federal government.

[avaistheone1]

85. k&r

[certainot]

86. "obama's head needs to roll"- limbaugh 09/10/08

he created an absurd pretext for saying it but that's what he wanted to end up with.

1000 coordinated uncontested radio stations are the big problem, with a much larger audience and uncontested repetition-it wasn't TV or print that swiftboated a decorated veteran and elevated a biz failure deserter into com in chief- talk radio since reagan killed the Fairness Doctrine 20 yrs ago made the difference. they need to be picketed and thier local sponsors need to be shamed.

thanks for the legal.

[Turborama]

88. Some more Republican inciters that need to be added to the list (Video)...

Check out this Think Progress compilation kpete's posted in the videos forum: GOP lawmakers fan the flames of hate "I'm A Proud Right Wing Terrorist"

[Turborama]

89. Mediamatters have made a damning compilation of Beck's incitement

Posted here: Media Matters: The Consequences Of Beck's Nightly Hour Of Hate