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on this specific vote, I disagree with Dennis . But over all he is a great voice for real change

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Douglas Carpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-15-10 02:54 AM
Original message
on this specific vote, I disagree with Dennis . But over all he is a great voice for real change
and a voice for the voiceless - God Bless him!

It is the Democratic Congressional Caucus that is ineffectual - Not Representative Kucinich!!

When an overwhelming majority of the American people want a public option, when the Democrats campaigned on a public option and won - When the Democrats hold the largest majorities in both houses of Congress in decades - yet there is no chance that a public options is going to happen - if that doesn't make the Democrats in Congress look ineffectual and incompetent - I don't know what it could possibly take. Fox News and rightwing radio is not marginalizing them on this - they are doing it to themselves. The Democratic Congressional Caucus are truly shooting themselves in their own foot by thwarting the will of the American people and reneging on the promises that they ran on and won on.

What makes Mr. Kucinich special is that he is one of only a handful of Democratic members of Congress who on almost every issue takes a strong progressive stand - and though, I personally think he is making a mistake by not following Bernie Sander's example of voting for the current health care bill while continuing to work for the goal of single-payer. But even though I would personally support going ahead and voting for the bill anyway, the simple fact remains that the kind of bill Mr. Kucinich would be willing to support has the support of the vast majority of American people. The current HCR Bill is NOT supported by the majority of Americans and it is most certainly not what the Democrats ran on and won on.

The fact that single-payer is not even permitted to be placed on the table when the vast majority of Americans support Medicare for all or some form of single-payer - it is a sad statement about the current realities of American democracy. The fact that EVEN a public option that is supported by the overwhelming majority of Americans, - EVEN with a Democratic President who campaigned on that issue and won - EVEN with the largest Democratic majorities in both houses of Congress in decades - but still it is not going to happen. Now this is truly a sad statement about the realities of American democracy.

The fact remains Representative Kucinich on an issue by issue level is far more in tune with advancing the kind of progressive agenda that the vast majority of mainstream Democrats actually would want to support - but is usually kept off the table and not even given the light of day by the power of special interest.

The Democratic Congressional Caucus is going to have to decide if their role is to represent the interest of the somewhat socially liberal banker, stock broker or real estate speculator or is it their role to represent the interest of the vast majority of ordinary working Americans.

It seems to me that the U.S. Congress needs a lot more voices of genuine progressive dissent and at least a few voices who will say out loud what a significant portion of the population is thinking. Someone like Dennis Kucinich at least keeps the cause of real change and significant change alive even if sometimes I might personally disagree on strategy.
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impik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-15-10 02:58 AM
Response to Original message
1. Did you also agree with him when
he voted against the Hate Crimes Bill, Financial Reform, Obama's Budget? What "voice of change"? He's the ultimate antithesis to "progress", because he obviously doesn't believe in progress. It's all about his purity, an d let me tell you, i tend to be highly suspicious of most "pure" people.
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Cronus Protagonist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-15-10 03:46 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. That was a logical fallacy bomb, right?
...the kind of thing where you try to hit them all in a single paragraph.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-15-10 04:37 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. Is that an actual response to the question and statement made, or just a work around?
:shrug:
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jefferson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-15-10 06:13 AM
Response to Reply #1
6. Also voted against SCHIP, Cap and Trade, the resolution reprimanding Joe "YOU LIE" Wilson...
It goes on and on. Kucinich is no friends of Dems, when it comes to what really matters.
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Bluenorthwest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-15-10 08:20 AM
Response to Reply #1
9. Did you agree with Obama and Frist
when they voted to intervene in Teri Schaivo's case? Did you agree with him when he voted No on the Uniting American Families Act, in which he voted against equalizing immigration rights for gay people? I agree with Senator Kerry, who is still trying to get that law through.
All day long, we could talk about lousy votes made by Obama. Or any member. Obama was there a very short time, yet he has a few horrible votes to discuss. Shall we discuss them?
Hair splitting on any member is what it is. Obama voted with Frist. Obama voted for each and every request for more war money that Bush ever placed. How much, Mr Bush sir, he'd say, and then vote yes, sir, yes Bush.
All day we could do this, especially if we add Biden who has a long history. Made some foul votes. Many more that look foul taken out of context. It is much fun to do. Shall we? Really?
So you think gay people should not be allowed to bring their partners home? You think the government should interfere in end of life times, over families. Understood.
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-15-10 10:46 AM
Response to Reply #9
11. There were only three Senators present to vote on Schiavo case - all Republicans
Edited on Mon Mar-15-10 10:53 AM by karynnj
Obama did not vote for intervention. Was there another vote? http://uspolitics.about.com/od/electionissues/a/sb686_v... I don't think there was a vote on the Uniting American Families Act in the full Senate yet. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uniting_American_Families_... Here, it says it died in the Judiciary Committee in the 110th Congress. Obama was not on the Judiciary committee in the 110th Congress - http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Senate_Commi...

On funding the war, even Senator Kennedy voted for that - there were some protest votes after Bush vetoed a bill that included a resolution to set a deadline. (sorry for the right wing sorce, but this was the first I found with google of an Obama vote against the war funding - though the goal was to change the policy, not to not fund the troops. http://wizbangblog.com/content/2007/05/25/clinton-and-o... - )
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ChicagoSuz219 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-15-10 06:00 AM
Response to Original message
4. ...and on this vote, he's a great voice for real...
...STATUS QUO!!

:thumbsdown:
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RBInMaine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-15-10 06:10 AM
Response to Original message
5. He has ZERO sense of practicality and accomplishes very little.
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Jeff In Milwaukee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-15-10 08:01 AM
Response to Reply #5
8. I agree....
But I still think Dennis serves a vital purpose. Change happens slowly, but when it does happen its because a handful of people were just too god-damned stubborn to accept things as they are or to compromise. That's not to say that they got what they wanted -- I imagine some of the Abolitionists of the 1840's would STILL be pissed at the state of race relations today.

But that's their lot in life - to never be satisfied with things as they are.

I disagree with Dennis on this particular issue, but there's a part of me that wants him to vote "no" on Health Care Reform because there should always be one person in Congress who demands that we do the right thing. There SHOULD be a public option and I hope that we'll get one sooner rather than later. But the prudent thing to do is to get millions of uninsured people insured today and improve the process tomorrow.

Dennis says no. Do it right. And do it right now.

That's not practical and that's not achievable. But it's a lofty goal. And this country. and this government, should always be about setting and achieving lofty goals.

Keep hammering, Dennis.
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Bluenorthwest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-15-10 08:24 AM
Response to Reply #5
10. Ah the Great State of Maine is heard from. Two Republican
Senators, anti equality laws flying passed, and yet, somehow, Mainers think they have time to wallow in the bashing of Democrats from States where the Democrats can actually elect Democrats. I guess when you elect only Republicans, that gives you standing to rave on.
You do understand of course that Dennis is the Democratic candidate for his seat. So I assume that you are promoting a Republican win there, just as you seem to deliver in Maine.
If I had Snowe and Collins as my Senators, I'd hang my head in shame.
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Douglas Carpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-15-10 07:38 AM
Response to Original message
7.  2008 Representative Kucinich supported the interests of the Americans for Democratic Action 95%
This nonsense about not voting with the Democrats or never being pragmatic is nonsense.

2008 Representative Kucinich supported the interests of the Americans for Democratic Action 95 percent in 2008.

http://www.votesmart.org/issue_rating_category.php?can_...

2007-2008 Representative Kucinich supported the interests of the National Family Planning & Reproductive Health Association 100 percent in 2007-2008.

2007-2008 Based on a point system, with points assigned for actions in support of or in opposition to National Farmers Union's position, Representative Kucinich received a rating of 75.

2007-2008 Representative Kucinich supported the interests of the Defenders of Wildlife Action Fund 93 percent in 2007-2008.

2007-2008 Representative Kucinich supported the interests of the The Humane Society Legislative Fund 108 percent in 2007-2008. Members of Congress who led as prime sponsors of pro-animal legislation received "extra-credit" equivalent to one vote or one co sponsorship, 17% for a Senator or 8% for a Representative of the House.

2007-2008 Representative Kucinich supported the interests of the American Civil Liberties Union 100 percent in 2007-2008

2007-2008 Based on a point system, with points assigned for actions in support of or in opposition to Arab American Institute's position, Representative Kucinich received a rating of 100.

2007-2008 Representative Kucinich supported the interests of the Human Rights Campaign 100 percent in 2007-2008.

2007-2008 Based on a point system, with points assigned for actions in support of or in opposition to Leadership Conference on Civil Rights's position, Representative Kucinich received a rating of 87.

2007-2008 Representative Kucinich supported the interests of the American Association of University Women 90 percent in 2007-2008..

2007-2008 In 2007-2008 National Education Association gave Representative Kucinich a grade of A.

2008 Representative Kucinich supported the interests of the Latin America Working Group 75 percent in 2008.

2008 Representative Kucinich supported the interests of the Environment America 85 percent in 2008.

2007-2008 Representative Kucinich supported the interests of the Defenders of Wildlife Action Fund 93 percent in 2007-2008.

2007-2008 Representative Kucinich supported the interests of the League of Conservation Voters 85 percent in the First and Second Sessions of Congress in 2007-2008..


2008 In 2008 Citizens for Global Solutions gave Representative Kucinich a grade of A.

2008 Representative Kucinich supported the interests of the Friends Committee on National Legislation 100 percent in 2008.

2008 Representative Kucinich supported the interests of the Peace Action West 100 percent in 2008


2007-2008 Representative Kucinich supported the interests of the National Family Planning & Reproductive Health Association 100 percent in 2007-2008.

2007-2008 Representative Kucinich supported the interests of the National Right to Life Committee 0 percent in 2007-2008..


Agriculture Issues


2008 Representative Kucinich supported the interests of the National Association of Wheat Growers 89 percent in 2008.

2007-2008 Based on a point system, with points assigned for actions in support of or in opposition to National Farmers Union's position, Representative Kucinich received a rating of 75.


Animal Rights and Wildlife Issues



2007-2008 Representative Kucinich supported the interests of the Defenders of Wildlife Action Fund 93 percent in 2007-2008.

2007-2008 Representative Kucinich supported the interests of the The Humane Society Legislative Fund 108 percent in 2007-2008. Members of Congress who led as prime sponsors of pro-animal legislation received "extra-credit" equivalent to one vote or one co sponsorship, 17% for a Senator or 8% for a Representative of the House.

2007-2008 Representative Kucinich supported the interests of the The Humane Society of the United States 100+ percent in both sessions of Congress in 2007-2008.


Campaign Finance and Election Issues


2007 Representative Kucinich supported the interests of the League of Women Voters 80 percent in 2007.



Education


2007-2008 Representative Kucinich supported the interests of the American Association of University Women 90 percent in 2007-2008.

2007-2008 In 2007-2008 National Education Association gave Representative Kucinich a grade of A.


Employment and Affirmative Action


2008 Representative Kucinich supported the interests of the Latin America Working Group 75 percent in 2008.






Environmental Issues


2008b] Representative Kucinich supported the interests of the Environment America 85 percent in 2008.

2007-2008 Representative Kucinich supported the interests of the Defenders of Wildlife Action Fund 93 percent in 2007-2008.

2007-2008 Representative Kucinich supported the interests of the League of Conservation Voters 85 percent in the First and Second Sessions of Congress in 2007-2008.

Foreign Aid and Policy Issues


2008 In 2008 Armenian National Committee of America gave Representative Kucinich a grade of B+.

2008 In 2008 Citizens for Global Solutions gave Representative Kucinich a grade of A.

2008 Representative Kucinich supported the interests of the Friends Committee on National Legislation 100 percent in 2008.

2008 Representative Kucinich supported the interests of the Peace Action West 100 percent in 2008.

2007-2008 In 2007-2008 Council for a Livable World gave Representative Kucinich a rating of 87 percent..

2007-2008 Based on a point system, with points assigned for actions in support of or in opposition to U.S. Campaign to End the Israeli Occupation's position, Representative Kucinich received a rating of +3.



Labor


2008 Representative Kucinich supported the interests of the AFL-CIO 93 percent in 2008

2008 Representative Kucinich supported the interests of the AFL-CIO - Lifetime 96 percent during their legislative career up until 2008..

2008 Representative Kucinich supported the interests of the American Federation of State, County & Municipal Employees 86 percent in 2008.

2008 Representative Kucinich supported the interests of the American Federation of State, County & Municipal Employees - Lifetime 97 percent during their legislative career up until 2008.

2008 Representative Kucinich supported the interests of the Latin America Working Group 75 percent in 2008.

2008 Representative Kucinich supported the interests of the Service Employees International Union 100 percent in 2008.


2008 In 2008 United Electrical Radio and Machine Workers rated politicians in selected states. They gave Representative Kucinich a rating of 100.

2008 Representative Kucinich supported the interests of the Utility Workers Union of America 100 percent in 2008.

2007-2008 Based on a point system, with points assigned for actions in support of or in opposition to Federally Employed Women's position, Representative Kucinich received a rating of 80.

2007-2008 Representative Kucinich supported the interests of the United Food & Commercial Workers 100 percent in 2007-2008.

2008 Representative Kucinich supported the interests of the Alliance for Retired Americans - Lifetime 92 percent during their legislative career up until 2008.

. 2007 Representative Kucinich supported the interests of the PFLAG, Parents, Families and Friends of Lesbians and Gays 100 percent in 2007. .

2008 In 2008 Drum Major Institute for Public Policy gave Representative Kucinich a grade of A+.

2008 In 2008 NETWORK, A National Catholic Social Justice Lobby gave Representative Kucinich a rating of 83 percent

2007-2008 Based on the votes, committee votes, co-sponsorships and other leadership actions that took place between 2007-2008 the Secular Coalition for America assigned Representative Kucinich a grade of A+. With grades ranging from a high of A+ to a low of F.

2007-2008 In 2007-2008 Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans of America gave Representative Kucinich a grade of A.

2006 Representative Kucinich supported the interests of the Disabled American Veterans 100 percent in 2006.

2008 In 2008 The Sargent Shriver National Center on Poverty Law gave Representative Kucinich a grade of 94 percent..

2007-2008 Representative Kucinich supported the interests of the American Association of University Women 90 percent in 2007-2008.

2007-2008 Based on a point system, with points assigned for actions in support of or in opposition to Federally Employed Women's position, Representative Kucinich received a rating of 80.

2007-2008 On the votes used to calculate its ratings, the National Organization for Women attaches more value to those votes it considers more important. For 2007-2008, the National Organization for Women gave Representative Kucinich a rating of 87 percent..

http://www.votesmart.org/issue_rating_category.php?can_...

.
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LatteLibertine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-15-10 11:00 AM
Response to Original message
12. Gimping
Edited on Mon Mar-15-10 11:02 AM by LatteLibertine
President Obama and the Democratic Party for the of his term by shooting down HCR does nothing for Dennis or the party. The system is too broken and too many folks are suffering as well as being bankrupted. It also almost guarantees a return of Republicans to the majority. In addition, we may not get another shot at HCR for a very long time. If the Republicans get back into power you can certainly forget about it.
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