Stupid ass on Bill Mahar claims the rethugs have played the health care issue better than O

[bigdarryl]

WTF!!! is she talking about http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/02/27/chris-rock-stops-joins-bi_n_479425.html

[Captain Hilts]

1. 'Female' what?

[bigdarryl]

2. what you mean female what

[Lorien]

9. The Republican woman.

Use "female" for animals only, please. We're a little tired of the dehumanization around here.

[guruoo]

21. !

:rofl:

[Captain Hilts]

28. 'Female' what? Bees? Goats? The term is not exclusive to humans. nt

[givemebackmycountry]

3. If I was you I would consider re-constructing the title of my thread...

Just saying.

[DrDan]

4. if you are referring to Crystia Freeland, she is far from "stupid"

[ellenfl]

6. i was quite surprised to find that she is left-leaning.

i think she's been pretty non-partisan when i have seen her on other shows.

ellen fl

[DrDan]

13. I agree - she was pretty neutral when I have seen her in the past also

but I always suspected her to lean left even though one might expect otherwise considering her job.

[ellenfl]

17. exactly. eom

[ellenfl]

5. if you are referring to chrystia freeland, she's right.

has health care reform passed yet? i think the rw has been very successful at framing the conversation.

ellen fl

[ChairmanAgnostic]

11. exactly. It took a year of our bitching and moaning

to get the White House's attention.

During that year, a substantial percentage of America was badly misinformed, scared, and angered. That's because the White House had NO message throughout last summer. Insurers spent millions misleading and misinforming the public. There are some who still believe in Death Panels, etc.

[avaistheone1]

14. True.

[Go2Peace]

19. exactly - The fact is that our side has really blown it on this issue

Primarily because the President did not strongly define and direct things from the bully pulpit.

[brand404]

7. Stupid Ass?!? WTF? She's 100% right!

[Lorien]

10. She is indeed. They clearly framed their stance on the issue, while none of us here

know where the hell Obama stands on health care. Was he always for the mandates? Is he pro or anti Public Option? Why won't he allow single payer advocates to speak while giving so much time for the GOP to have THEIR say? The Left appears not to have a message or even a policy position.

[Nite Owl]

8. They have

Obama and most of the dems in Congress have been lame. They have missed many opportunities to frame the debate, it's like they are afraid to argue the points that would get people to see through what the repukes have been saying over and over and over.

[tibbiit]

12. I agree with her too

the pukes are masters as bomb-throwing (metaphoric) provacators. I at one time had hoped the obama admin would have been prepared to stomp on these people after seeing the treatment of dems during the clinton years and the bush years. Did they think the pukes would treat them fairly?
lessons not learned.
She was right, pukies are great at framing and then catapulting the propaganda.
tib

[pansypoo53219]

15. the gnews helped the returds

the WHOLE way. death panels. teabagging coverage. IS THE PUBLIC OPTION DEAD NOW????

[ncteechur]

16. It is easy to be against something--quite another story to fight for something.

The GOP is equivalent to a petulant child. holding their breath and stomping their feet and saying no no no no

takes no courage, no thinking, no creativity, and NO heart

none of which any of them have so it is easy to make that statement and while Crystia is very smart (editor at Financial Times) she is way off on her assessment of this situation.

she knows better, too.

[mstinamotorcity]

38. You are absolutely right

The President had his message out front since he started his campaign.The problem was they let the repugs get ahead of them on the contents of the bill.The Repugs put their little think tanks together and dissected the bill without the Democrats knocking the noise down before they got momentum.And those that are in the media know very well that the party of no no no have been lying through their teeth on every front from death panels to socialist and all the other sickening things that has been said about this administration and this bill.And they will take something from faux network and carry it to other media entities and call it news.And I know better!!!!And I see so do you!!!!!:hi:

[TexasObserver]

18. She's right about that. She's not often right, but she was there.

She mainly repeats things she hears others say. She's a reliable business shill on Morning Joke.

[FrenchieCat]

20. I watched her on this, and I have a problem with what she is saying....

because throughout, she never ever mentions the media's role, in which she has played her part. She's a giant corporatist, as editing manager of Financial Times, and talks a good game,
as she is quite articulate, but in the end, is usually overall negative of this President,
as she was during the election and the primaries, prior to that....

Certainly she is not on our side, and had never professed to be, and didn't show that she was on Bill Maher. In fact, she is a frequent guest of Morning Joe.....and although she more level headed in her critiques, more moderate, she's never been a great fan of this President...hence, her silence as to how the media worked overtime to shape the Health Care debate, complete with Townhall clowns, and a magnifying lense on those who oppose HCR.

So I'm not impressed.

[Jennicut]

22. Something else that no one reallys brings up Frenchie

is the idea that it is very easy to do what the Rethugs do. The Dems actually did it against Bush's social security reform (though we actually used facts to help defeat it). It is much easier to just scare people and be against big legislation then it is to explain how you will reform an entire system.

[Name removed]

23. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[FrenchieCat]

30. It isn't the media's job to work for the opposition against the government

The media's job is to fairly present all sides, not editorialize.

The media's job is not to boost the Town Hall Cryers and to pronounce
what is dead and what is not based on nothing.

The media's job is not the skew the balance of ideologues interviewed towards the conservatives,

And not to magnify an astroturf movement in trying to grow it,

not to treat racism as though it is the new norm,

not to be upset because this President called some congresscritters by their first names,

not to allow lies from the opposition to remain unchallenged,

not demonizing an issue or individuals just because they can,


No, that is not the media's job,
and therefore it shouldn't be an administration's job
to have to attempt to not only fix the broken shit,
but deal with one sided heavy handed propaganda from those in the media.

[DrDan]

24. seems to me we should be more interested in her views financial policy rather

than whether she is a fan of Obama. After all, she is very bright and very much in touch with the financial side of things.

But . . . then that's just me. (Does everything have to be us-vs-them? Do we always have to evaluate folks based on whether they are on our side or not? Perhaps there are times we might actually agree with the other side. I know - that's just crazy-talk.)

[FrenchieCat]

32. I think she is lucid and can be right in portions of her presentation....

but that is only if certain facts are left out.....

like the fact of the media's role in this health care debate....
as mentioned above.

She left that whole issue out, and she actually shouldn't be able to,
as the media's role is intergral in what took place throughout this summer,
and up to now.

An institution that is supposed to be there to inform,
can't force Palin in our face day in, day out,
play up the Town Hall cryers in opposition of HCR,
and act like theirs is the only voice,
and somehow not even get a mention as to their role in this entire saga.....

and that's what Ms. Freeland did,
If you are going to take the time to attribute fault where it might belong,
why not mention the very industry that she represents....?

And so, she can't be right in her analysis of this President,
if half of the forces involved in how we got to where we currently are
is conveniently left out of the equation.

[Skip Intro]

25. Hate to say, but the truth is the truth. Repugs & the right have played the hcr issue better than O

That's unfortunately the sad truth. I mean, hcr seems to still be alive in some form or another, but the repugs have done what they do best in spreading lies and whipping up fear (and hatred) and opposition with a weak, uneven and sometimes non-existent response from Dems and the Obama admin. There have been so many resets on the push for hcr - the president's address to the both chambers, the SOTU, and the summit. A clear sign of the effectiveness of the repukes' efforts to kill hcr. Things should never have gotten to the point that they are on this issue. Especially with Dems in control of the WH, House, and Senate.

[swilton]

26. After seeing the video

I happen to agree with her - Obama played this disaster health care reform bill poorly on all levels - the only thing I don't agree with is that the policy as a reform initiative was worthless.

It's a major policy disaster because it won't achieve the sought after objectives of lowering health care costs and/or providing more coverage

It was a p/r trainwreck because Obama let the Republicans gain the p/r momentum by labeling his initiatives - at the same time that Obama alienated his progressive base

Thus if the bill in fact passes - the Republicans will be able to take credit for opposing the bill as the sham that it was...They have effectively given Obama the rope to hang himself...The only winners in this are the insurance company CEOs

[FrenchieCat]

27. Winners will be the 31 million Americans currently uninsured.....

who will get covered (so of course you saying that more coverage will not be provided is an out right lie) although in your post, they aren't mentioned, cause I guess they don't fucking really count.

[branders seine]

29. well, the bill Obama is in favor of is basically less reform

than policies republicans supported in the past, so maybe the stupid ass is right.

Especially considering that a large majority of Americans preferred single payer going into this circus, er, debate.

[Cha]

31. I've seen maher's tone deafness in

action before.. this is more of the same.

[Blue_In_AK]

33. She's 100% right, I'm afraid.

Republicans clearly derailed the message long ago.

[FrenchieCat]

34. The Republicans didn't have to "do" a thing!

The Corporate media did it for them....
starting with unending footage of the "Town Cryers".....
screaming about Death Panels....
over and over and over again.

Since she didn't mention that,
I'm afraid there's an elephant in the room
she elected not to point as one of the culprit
(and she wouldn't since she is part of the media),
while blaming all on President Obama....

so no, she's not 100% right; not even close!

[Blue_In_AK]

37. We are all entitled to our opinions.

I agree that the media was complicit. I think Obama could have done more to take the lead.

I don't expect you or Cha to agree with me.

ed. And I also think he failed in not giving the single-payer people a place "at the table." His start point was too far to the right to begin with.

[Skittles]

41. bullshit

the White House has been INEFFECTIVE in countering repuke bullshit which they should have EASILY ANTICIPATED - yes the corporate media played its part (also ENTIRELY PREDICIBLE) but the lack of leadership from the White House has been APPALLING

[TankLV]

54. Exactly - I and countless others like me WARNED these spineless idiots what would transpire!!!

We even did it BEFORE THE SWEARING-IN!!!

But rahmbo and the other idiots he surrounds himself with had other ideas...

As usual, we were IGNORED!!!

And the repukes matched all our expectations...

[Cha]

35. They had invaluble assistance from the corporatemediawhores..

how could they not derail it? Obama has done an amazing job in spite of all negative crap spewing all over the damn place.

[Blue_In_AK]

36. Oh, there's no doubt about that.

However, I still believe that the president could have been much clearer from the beginning about what he wanted, and then really pushed for it, instead of letting Congress muddle around so much for months.

[FrenchieCat]

39. I think it was as much our failure....

since we just sat on the sidelines and fought each other,
while the Corporate media pushed the Republican line.

or Maybe it was all his fault, as some would prefer to think......
cause of course, all of us did all that we could
to support him in his endeavor, NOT.

Instead many started off not supporting anything other than what they wanted.
The Single Payer supporters were against anything but Single Payer.....
which means, they were never supportive of this President,
and so, to this day, they remain against anything and everything short
of what they ordered.

[Ildem09]

43. The Female Guest on Bill Mahr was right

She was talking about messaging. and boy howdy did they kick our ass. yeah Obama supposedly supported single payer. video of him at the 2001 AFL-CIO convention in Chicago to that point. regardless. if he would have started out with a Policy that was as liberal as i dont know Nixions proposed plan to reform health care and then negotiated down to some weird Public Option I would have been happy. however, he quit before he was even out of the gate.

I was an Organizer for Health Care reform in the Indiana 9th CD HR 3200 and a public option were left out to dry

[FrenchieCat]

46. Like I said....when you've got the fucking media blasting whatever the GOP wants

via megaphones, it doesn't matter what your messaging is, cause ain't nobody gonna hear you.

Ain't got shit to do with any of what you are talking about.

Americans turned against Health Care cause it became cool to do.....
cause the fucked up media made it appear that everybody was doing it.

The media allowed the Right to scream at us day in, day out that
the whole thing was a government take over......and that's all we fucking heard.

Meantime, Democrats were busy on Internet boards arguing with each other about
the perfect vs. the good, and hating on the President all the while.....
so him being the messenger didn't matter, cause most Liberals didn't like the message
and demanded heaven right here on earth in health care matters.

The GOP message triumphed cause a President coming out to speak, even if it's everyday,
is only talking directly to folks watching Cable...and that ain't a lot. After that,
the media takes over and decides what it will replay, and how it will massage it
as the message of the day.

In otherwords, even though we have the Presidency and the supposed bully pulpit,
for whatever reason, the GOP have a bigger microphone.

You can deny it, but it would still be true.

[spiritual_gunfighter]

56. They turned against health care because it was "cool"???

"because the fucked up media made it appear that everybody was doing it"?????

Having problems with the HCR bill isn't taking drugs or smoking cause your friends are doing it.

and according to you all the Democrats were busy on the Internet boards arguing with each other???????

Jesus fucking Christ, this post is dripping with stupidity.

I would highly suggest you take a break from DU because if you think that every single Democrat is busy talking shit about the HCR bill on internet boards you obviously have a pretty warped view of the Democratic Party.

Step away from the DU Frenchie

[ProSense]

47. "yeah Obama supposedly supported single payer."

What does that have to do with Republican messaging?

[OhioBlue]

50. I agree with that.

We share some of the blame. We weren't out like the teabaggers. Although it was and is easier to drum up a protest movement than a movement in favor of something that we don't fully understand. The Obama admin, OFA and DNC did have a PR strategy - but I think it could have been much better. I did some OFA calls.. but to be honest, it was difficult to know what to sell.. at the time there were so many different bills in committees and chambers. I didn't understand what the current or future bills would entail... It's hard to build a grass roots movement over something like that. If it would have been say medicare for all who want it.. it would have been much easier, I think.

So I do completely agree with you that we share some of the blame, that the media is most to blame... but the Obama admin, DNC, OFA, etc... could have and should have played this one much better. A learning opportunity, hopefully.

[TankLV]

55. Sorry - but you don't START discussions with the COMPROMISE POSITION

And, WE remember we had to BEG to get the "public option" even CONSIDERED let alone SINGLE PAYER!!!

WE remember recent history.

Seems you choose to ignore it...

[VMI Dem]

40. Big Ed needs to weigh in!

Where the hell is Big Ed when we need him?

[spiritual_gunfighter]

57. MSNBC is too busy showing Ice Dancing n/t

[ProSense]

42. "the rethugs have played the health care issue better "

What a clueless shill statement by that person.

What exactly did the Republicans gain by their prowess? Is that why their credibility on the issue is hovering 20 points below the President's?

If one wants to claim that the administration has been ineffective in communicating the benefits of its plan, that's one thing.

Claiming a that a bunch of obstructionist (who haven't been able to obstruct health reform) with no credibility and low ratings have played the issue better is ridiculous.

[Name removed]

44. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ProSense]

45. Yeah, Republicans have convinced everyone that the status quo is better

reform isn't needed and the public option is socialized medicine.

To believe that one would have to be desperate or clueless.

The Republicans are running around like chickens without heads. Americans don't buy their bullshit.

[Ildem09]

48. Sure

Look at the general polling. I mean were going to loose some seats in in November thats just political science certainty, though, demoralizing the base and energizing the rubes to get engaged and go ape

[ProSense]

49. "Look at the general polling."

You mean the imaginary ones that show the Republicans leading on health care?

[SanchoPanza]

51. Eh.

It's a large and complex system (or systems, since not every state regulates health care the same way) that touches everyone and yet few understand how it all works. HCR is an almost impossible to navigate maze of booby traps, and it's not just Republicans that have gotten in the way. Do a brief perusal of this very sight and you will find accusations that the reform effort is intended to enrich insurance companies at the expense of the public, and this is about as disingenuous as the Death Panel propaganda.

So it's not exactly difficult to lose focus when you're promoting reform.

[Raine]

52. Well, that's true

just because you don't want to believe it doesn't make the conclusion wrong.

[TankLV]

53. They have - we're LOSING and it's an UPHILL Battle!

At least that's the REALIY.

Like to know what universe you live in...I want IN!!!

[warm regards]

58. After seeing what I saw the other day,

I would think that he would have had a hard time saying that anyone has played the health care issue well.