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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-24-10 12:23 PM
Original message
Obama-Wow (on the verge of historic health care reform and more)

Obama-Wow

by aheffy

<...>

Health Care Reform is going to pass. I repeat, HCR will pass. It will be far short of what progressives want. Conservatives will scream government takeover etc. But at the end of the day, Obama is going to achieve what every other president has failed at- reforming our broken healthcare system. Is this reform far from perfect? Of course. But is this Reform the bill that can get through the minefield we call Congress-Yes! And this HCR will bend the cost curve a bit (far from what is needed), and this reform will afford tens of millions of Americans healthcare.
So what is the point of this post? To look back and see what Obama has accomplished over the past year.

  1. Obama is fighting two wars- intelligently, pulling back from Iraq, and taking care of Afghan., so that we can wind down those wars ASAP (God-willing). A smart foreign policy. The damage that Bush has done is being turned around, thanks to Clinton and Obama-no small feat.
  2. We were on the brink of a Depression. Obama steered America clear of catastrophe. Why he isn't getting more credit for that, I don't know. But our country, and the world, was on the close a total collapse and thanks t Obama's leadership, this has been avoided.
  3. Economy- Obama inherited this sinking ship. Stimulus/jobs bill are working. Economy slowly turning around.
  4. HCR-It is simply unbelievable that HCR is going to be achieved.
In summary, (assuming HCR WILL pass) in his first year or two, President Obama will have several substantial and long lasting accomplishment. That is Change we can believe in.


USA Today editorial

Our view on medical overhaul: Obama lays cards on table. Where’s the GOP health bid?
President’s plan represents worthy bid to revive needed reforms.


<...>

If Republicans harbored any illusions that Obama would go back to the drawing board, as they've been demanding, he dashed them with his some-from-Column A, some-from-Column B approach to the separate health bills passed by House and Senate Democrats. His plan is as easy to pick on as its precursors were. (What change of this scale isn't?) But strip away all the Washington ax grinding and ideological infighting, and the plan can be put to a very simple test: Would it produce a health care system better than today's — one that would leave people confident that they could get high-quality care at a reasonable price? The answer is yes. And for all our misgivings about aspects of the plan, that is not a close call.

In a nation where 46 million people lack health insurance, Obama's proposal would eventually cover more than 30 million. It would provide subsidies to help lower-income people buy policies. And it would eliminate an array of noxious insurance company practices, such as denying coverage to people with pre-existing medical conditions.

Like other plans on the left and right, the biggest weakness in Obama's is that it falls short in curbing the medical inflation that threatens to send premiums and the federal deficit soaring. It's disappointing that the president further weakened the "Cadillac" tax on expensive health insurance plans, one of the most important ways to discourage overuse of medical care — and cut costs.

The larger picture, though, is that his plan would improve the lives of tens of millions of people without increasing the budget deficit. Republicans, by tossing bombs while refusing to negotiate, effectively stand for the unacceptable status quo, which is doubly troubling because individual Republicans have good ideas. Obama has adopted some, notably ones aimed at reducing Medicare and Medicaid fraud. He should take more, such as malpractice reform to reduce costly "defensive medicine." But responding to Obama's plan Monday, Republicans pretty much stuck with their drumbeat of demonization and obstruction, which has proved politically profitable.

<...>



New York Times editorial

<...>

Mr. Obama’s plan also adds important new features that should make it more attractive to House Democrats and to the general public.

His boldest new idea is to give the federal government powers, in conjunction with state insurance regulators, to reject excessive premium increases. Anyone who read in horror, as we did last week, about rate increases of up to 39 percent for some California clients of Anthem Blue Cross should find that idea a particular relief.

For low- and moderate-income people worried that they will be forced to buy insurance they can’t afford, a proposal of his would beef up tax subsidies to help them buy policies and make the penalties for ignoring the mandate somewhat less onerous.

For older Americans, Mr. Obama would gradually close the so-called doughnut hole, a gap in Medicare’s drug coverage that leaves many elderly beneficiaries unable to pay for their medicines.

<...>


Sunlight Foundation

<...>

The deeper cost cuts come from an attempt to further close the “donut hole” in the Medicare Part D prescription drug program. The “donut hole” refers to the gap in coverage that occurs within Medicare Part D. For those purchasing prescription drugs through the program coverage cuts off at $2,700 spent and does not pick back up again until $6,154 is spent by the participant. The current language that was struck in the deal between the White House and the pharmaceutical industry maintains that drug companies would cover 50 percent of the cost for brand-name drugs for participants falling in the “donut hole.” This change would be implemented within the year. The White House’s new proposal would eliminate the “donut hole” by 2020 by making participants pay only 25 percent coinsurance with Medicare covering the other 75 percent. The White House also takes a page from the House health reform bill by providing a $250 rebate to Part D participants who fall into the “donut hole.” (The House bill provides for a $500 reduction in costs for participants who fall into the “donut hole.”)

Another piece of the proposal would allow the Federal Trade Commission (FTC) to regulate the interactions between brand-name and generic drug companies. At issue is the revelation that brand-name drug companies have been paying off generic drug companies for support on patent extensions for certain drugs. This means that consumers will see serious delays in the release of certain generic drugs and therefore still face the higher costs of brand-name drugs. The FTC is filing suit against the drug companies to end this practice and the White House proposal aims to give the FTC authority to regulate and end this practice. The summary of the proposal states that the White House would, “ anti-competitive and unlawful any agreement in which a generic drug manufacturer receives anything of value from a brand-name drug manufacturer that contains a provision in which the generic drug manufacturer agrees to limit or forego research, development, marketing, manufacturing or sales of the generic drug.” The White House claims that payouts to generic drug companies cost consumers up to $35 billion a year.

<...>


The White House

  • For the first time in history, there will be limits on how much anyone will have to pay to receive health care coverage. And depending upon your income, you may be among the tens of millions of Americans who will get a tax credit to to help pay for your coverage.

  • And for the first time in history, insurance companies will no longer be allowed to simply tell you “no”. They will be required to offer coverage regardless of your health status, and they cannot jack up rates or drop you from your coverage when you get sick.

  • One of the most important aspects of this reform is to finally end the practice of insurance companies denying you coverage based on your health status.

  • Soon after the law is enacted, insurance companies will no longer be allowed to deny coverage to children with pre-existing conditions. Uninsured adults with pre-existing conditions will have access to a high-risk pool. And once the insurance exchange marketplace is up and running, insurance companies will no longer be allowed to deny coverage to anyone based on their health status.

  • You will likely pay less---perhaps much less. If you buy coverage like you have today on your own, premiums are expected to drop by 14 to 20 percent. If you get coverage through your job, premiums could decline by up to 3 percent.

  • In addition, many Americans buying coverage in the individual market will qualify for tax credits that reduce their premiums by an average of nearly 60 percent – and they will get better coverage than what they have today.

  • Health insurance reform will limit what you have to pay out of pocket, a protection that does not exist today. And for the first time, no one will be required to pay more than a set percentage of their income on health care coverage.

  • And, if you like the coverage you have today, you can keep it.

  • If your insurance company spends too much of your premium dollars on overhead, such as big salaries, administrative costs and marketing, they will be required to give you a rebate.

  • There will also be a new rate-review authority that will help keep premiums down and hold insurance companies accountable, so that health insurers will think twice before trying to impose a 39-percent increase on consumers as almost happened in California this February.

  • Your guaranteed Medicare benefits will not be cut.

  • In addition, you will have benefits you don’t have today: Preventive services like cancer screenings at no cost, and a substantial reduction in prescription drug prices if you fall into that gap in coverage known as the “donut hole”. Over time the bill closes this coverage gap completely. And the Medicare Trust Fund will be extended for more than 9 years, making sure that the Medicare program will be there for seniors now and in years to come.


Coming soon:

Repealing the Antitrust Exemption for Health Insurance Companies

<...>

The President's support was made official in a statement of administration policy (SAP) sent to Congress as the House considers that legislation in the coming days. Here's the SAP (pdf):

STATEMENT OF ADMINISTRATION POLICY
H.R. 4626 — Health Insurance Industry Fair Competition Act
(Rep. Perriello, D-Virginia, and 65 cosponsors)

The Administration strongly supports House passage of H.R. 4626. The repeal of the antitrust exemption in the McCarran-Ferguson Act as it applies to the health insurance industry would give American families and businesses, big and small, more control over their own health care choices by promoting greater insurance competition. The repeal also will outlaw existing, anti-competitive health insurance practices like price fixing, bid rigging, and market allocation that drive up costs for all Americans. Health insurance reform should be built on a strong commitment to competition in all health care markets, including health insurance. This bill will benefit the American health care consumer by ensuring that competition has a prominent role in reforming health insurance markets throughout the Nation.



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Beetwasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-24-10 12:24 PM
Response to Original message
1. Stop Raining On Perfectly Good Pissing!
That's my new favorite saying. And it's mine, all mine.
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DevonRex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-24-10 12:29 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Stop raining on a perfectly good pissing.
:evilgrin:

Sorry, couldn't help it.
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Beetwasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-24-10 12:33 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Another Version: Stop Raining On A Perfectly Good Piss Parade
Edited on Wed Feb-24-10 12:34 PM by Beetwasher
Nice alliteration in this version.
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State the Obvious Donating Member (561 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-24-10 12:47 PM
Response to Reply #1
8. I'm sorry, but I think you are quoting (paraphrasing) Judge Judy....
Edited on Wed Feb-24-10 01:09 PM by State the Obvious
I think she wrote a book a few years ago......Don't Pee on My Leg and Tell Me It's Raining

(Not saying she originated the saying....just that it is her book title.)
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Beetwasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-24-10 12:49 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. Umm, Nope, Mine Is Totally Different
Edited on Wed Feb-24-10 12:51 PM by Beetwasher
Read it again. It's a play on that idiom but turns it around and mixes it up. It means something different.

And Judge Judy didn't make that up, it's an old saying "Don't piss on me and tell me it's raining". I'm mixing that w/ "Don't rain on my parade".
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Solomon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-24-10 12:35 PM
Response to Original message
4. No. It's this one: I'm tired of people raining on me and telling me
it's piss.
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still_one Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-24-10 12:43 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. "Don't piss on my back and tell me its raining" /nt
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still_one Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-24-10 12:42 PM
Response to Original message
5. We will see. Since the MSM seems so optimistic, I remain skeptical /nt
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freddie mertz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-24-10 12:46 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. MSM only hated when critical of Obama.
When supported, treated like tablets from Mt. Sinai.

:boring:
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still_one Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-25-10 07:24 AM
Response to Reply #7
63. Not true in my case. The MSM no longer reports news, but is entertainment tonight
Edited on Thu Feb-25-10 07:25 AM by still_one
They do not seek to inform, but to misrepresent in order to create controversy

but the saddest part is they don't care


The written media is much better. About the only place where you can actually get a reasonable reporting of new from all sides is Bloomberg, which I don't call mainstream


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amborin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-24-10 01:02 PM
Response to Original message
10. historically disastrous! for Dems and for ordinary Americans, but good for Insurers! n/t
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-24-10 01:05 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. List the specific item in the OP that you deem is good for insurers
Edited on Wed Feb-24-10 01:05 PM by ProSense
and disastrous.

Seriously, don't just say anything, back it up.


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damonm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-24-10 02:57 PM
Response to Reply #11
21. Not gonna happen - they're not gonna let facts get in the way
of their righteous "progressive purity fury"(TM)
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amborin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-24-10 06:25 PM
Response to Reply #11
47. the facts have been posted ad nauseum; HCR proposals = huge giveaway to insurers
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CTLawGuy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-25-10 07:33 AM
Response to Reply #47
64. Brawndo has electrolytes
it's what plants crave!
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swilton Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-24-10 05:36 PM
Response to Reply #10
39. +1
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flyarm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-24-10 01:17 PM
Response to Original message
12. Doctors' Group: Obama Plan Leaves Millions Uninsured, Boosts Private Insurers
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x7785231

Doctors' Group: Obama Plan Leaves Millions Uninsured, Boosts Private Insurers
by Physicians for National Health Program
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-24-10 01:20 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. Doctors' Group: Do Not Resuscitate the ‘Public Option’
Do Not Resuscitate the ‘Public Option’

PNHP are all-or-nothing clowns.



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Oregone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-24-10 01:22 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. Phew, socialistic activist doctors. What do they know?
I only listen to people who toe the party line, whatever it may be day to day.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-24-10 01:26 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. They know a lot
but evidently are completely clueless about a the workings of Senate majority caucus that includes 59 people ranging from Bernie Sanders to Ben Nelson.

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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-24-10 01:37 PM
Response to Reply #15
18. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
SanchoPanza Donating Member (410 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-24-10 01:34 PM
Response to Reply #12
17. Boosts Private Insurers?
The only boost either package would give to private insurers is specifically targeted at non-profits. Larger risk pools, better rating standards, guaranteed issue, MLRs, etc. All of that works to the detriment of for-profit insurers who, for decades, have been carving up the insurance market in order to dump the sick and the poor onto non-profits and public programs.

I understand that PNHP's stated goal is to systematically dismantle private health insurance in the U.S., whether it be for-profit or not. But to say that either the Senate Bill or the Obama Proposal provides a "boost" to companies like Aetna and Wellpoint is to engage in histrionics and propaganda.
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Romulox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-24-10 02:51 PM
Response to Reply #17
20. What are you talking about? The President wants to make private insurance mandatory.
Edited on Wed Feb-24-10 02:51 PM by Romulox
That is the entire premise of his "reform".
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damonm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-24-10 02:59 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. *sigh* RTFB.
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Romulox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-24-10 03:01 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. How about YOU read a newspaper?
:hi:
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damonm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-24-10 03:08 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. 3 a day - and most of THEM haven't read the bill either.
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Romulox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-24-10 03:11 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. So you're pretending the Prez. doesn't want mandatory private insurance?
It's silly. :silly:
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damonm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-24-10 03:23 PM
Response to Reply #26
27. Did I say that? NO.
I said most of the papers get it wrong, and they do so the same way you have.
If it ended at "we have to buy insurance from private carriers", I'd hate the bill too. But it doesn't end there, and that's why you need to RTFB - the media, as usual, doesn't tell the whole story.
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Romulox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-24-10 03:25 PM
Response to Reply #27
28. No, but you surely implied it by objecting to pointing out this well-known fact.
:hi:
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damonm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-24-10 03:49 PM
Response to Reply #28
29. *Sigh* again...
Edited on Wed Feb-24-10 04:04 PM by damonm
Not even close.
I object to superficial knowledge, which is what people making this particular objection display, because it is also a "well-known fact" (to those who have RTFB) that insurers will be paying for this boon in the form of:
-having to justify their rates at both the state AND federal level,
-having recission taken off the table as an option,
-having "pre-existing condition" removed from their vocabulary,
-having to pay ENTIRELY for preventive care (no more co-pays for a routine Dr. visit!), and
-having to prove, PUBLICLY, that $0.80-0.85 of every dollar we give them goes to ACTUAL MEDICAL CARE.

A free ride, it AIN'T.

And if you're going to say that insurance regulation won't work, then I can tell you from personal experience that you'll have a hard time selling that notion here in California, where our auto insurance rates dropped like a rock after we regulated them with Prop. 103 in 1988, and they've remained low since.
http://www.consumerwatchdog.org/insurance/subcamp/prop103/

(edit for typos)
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Romulox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-24-10 04:38 PM
Response to Reply #29
34. Sigh all you want. There's not enough sugar to make the medicine of MANDATORY PRIVATE INSURANCE
go down.

When you object loudly to a plain statement of widely understood fact, you have to question the strength of your argument. :hi:
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damonm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-24-10 09:33 PM
Response to Reply #34
59. As you will...
because when I'm dealing with someone who (a) hasn't read the bill and thus has no clue what he's ranting about and (b) has such poor reading comprehension skills that he insists I said something I didn't, it's pointless to continue the discussion.

Enjoy your bitterness, since you insist on it.
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SanchoPanza Donating Member (410 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-24-10 04:33 PM
Response to Reply #20
33. Do yourself a favor.
Research how for-profits try to slice up multiple risk pools in order to take people who are only profitable.

Research how these practices let them dump non-profitable people onto public programs and non-profits, making those programs/companies less economically sustainable.

Research how states that have implemented community rating and guaranteed issue have taken that ability away from for-profit insurers and have a robust non-profit health insurance sector.

Research how those things are in the bill.

Because until you do this, you, and everyone else who's too busy pissing and moaning about mandate, will continue to look, and actually be, uninformed. And no one who has actually examined the policy and health care economics will ever take you seriously.
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Romulox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-24-10 04:39 PM
Response to Reply #33
35. I'm against mandatory private insurance as a first principle. Sorry, no explaining it away. nt
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SanchoPanza Donating Member (410 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-24-10 05:28 PM
Response to Reply #35
37. Outstanding.
I'm against letting tens of thousands of people die every year, due to lack of coverage, as a first principle.
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Romulox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-24-10 05:33 PM
Response to Reply #37
38. Sounds like you're as ghoulish as those who demand the corps get their cut before anyone is treated
:hi:
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SanchoPanza Donating Member (410 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-24-10 05:43 PM
Response to Reply #38
40. Think of a number
One that reflects how many people you think should die before Single Payer passes. Keep in mind that this is gonna be a big number, because it'll never pass.

Then you come up with a list of names of who gets to die first and send them a nice card. I suggest something like this:

Dear (Insert Name of American with a Preexisting Condition Here),

My first principle demands that you forfeit any hope living as a sacrifice to my policy idol.

Love,
Anonymous "Progressive"


Concise and to the point. Plus it ends with "love" so it has the minimal pretense of being compassionate.
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Romulox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-24-10 05:45 PM
Response to Reply #40
41. OK, got it. Now YOU think of a number of how many people should die for how much corporate profit.
Insurance companies make money by denying people care. Deal with it. :hi:
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-24-10 05:54 PM
Response to Reply #38
43. Exactly!!!
I will be 60 this year, and haven't been able to afford Health Insurance for the last 8 years.
I would also be "entitled" to a nice subsidy under the current Plan.

However, I STILL strongly OPPOSE the current plan (The Senate Bill repackaged with Obama's face on the label) because it permanently enshrines the For Profit Health Insurance Industry as the Gateway to Health Care in America.
It legitimizes and codifies a 20 - 30% Profit Rakeoff of every dollar spent on Health Care.

Unlike Obama, I DO begrudge Millions in Profits to an Industry that manufactures NOTHING, and creates NO Wealth (Value Added).
This is NOT the "Free Market", and I don't care how much a baseball player makes.

I begrudge every single Summer Home in Aspen, every single Yacht, every single Million Dollar BONUS to every single executive of an industry that PROFITS from with holding Health Care to sick people!!!


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Romulox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-24-10 05:59 PM
Response to Reply #43
45. I'm with you, bvar22! nt
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damonm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-24-10 09:35 PM
Response to Reply #33
60. +1, but pointless...
He's committed to hating this bill. Nice try, though.
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burning rain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-24-10 01:27 PM
Response to Original message
16. So, folks, does the president have clout in Congress, or doesn't he?
It doesn't pay to be like those many Christians who thank God if grandma recovers from her surgery, but don't blame Him if she dies in the hospital.
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flyarm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-24-10 02:01 PM
Response to Original message
19. As insurer hiked rates 39%, executives got bonuses, Congress told
Edited on Wed Feb-24-10 02:02 PM by flyarm
As insurer hiked rates 39%, executives got bonuses, Congress told

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=4282018&mesg_id=4282018

posted by KPETE

As insurer hiked rates 39%, executives got bonuses, Congress told
Source: McClatchy

As insurer hiked rates 39%, executives got bonuses, Congress told

By Rob Hotakainen | McClatchy Newspapers

WASHINGTON — While Anthem Blue Cross proposed a 39 percent rate increase on thousands of its California customers, its parent company gave 39 of its executives more than $1 million each and spent more than $27 million on 103 lavish executive retreats, congressional investigators said Wednesday.

"One question we asked is where does all of this money go? ... Corporate executives at WellPoint are thriving, while its policyholders are paying the price," Rep. Henry Waxman, D-Calif., said at a House subcommittee hearing Wednesday.

WellPoint's chief executive, Angela Braly, told the House panel that the rate increases were necessary to keep the company solvent.

In response to the company's proposed rate hike, Congress is weighing a plan that would create a new federal agency to oversee proposed rate increases.

Read more: http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2010/02/24/88119/as-insurer-...
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-24-10 03:01 PM
Response to Original message
24. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Hekate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-24-10 04:15 PM
Response to Original message
30. Hoping here. KnR.
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Slit Skirt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-24-10 04:17 PM
Response to Original message
31. smoke and mirrors
if they really want to help the american people we would have a public option, or single payer (even better)
low cost pharmaceuticals, and getting rid of the anti-trust exclusions.
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damonm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-24-10 09:27 PM
Response to Reply #31
58. true,but...
if you can find the votes in this congress for it, I'll support it wholeheartedly, as I agree.
Problem is, those votes DO NOT EXIST.
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-24-10 04:28 PM
Response to Original message
32. "Historic" is correct!
Never before in American History have Americans been forced to BUY an invisible, defective product from a For Profit Corporation that manufactures NOTHING, and produced NO Wealth (Value Added).

THIS is a giant new milestone in American Predatory Capitalism, and the ability for large Corporations to FORCE consumers BY LAW to BUY their worthless products with the Federal IRS as their Collection Agency.
Champaign Corks WILL be a-popping in the Executive Suites of the Health Insurance Industry celebrating this incredible victory over the American Consumer Class.
Obama delivers 40 MILLION NEW Forced customers to one of the most immoral Industries in the World...those who PROFIT from denying Health Care to sick people!

"A Uniquely American Solution!!!" indeed.

Individual Mandate + NO Public Option + Massive transfer of Public Wealth to Private Pockets + Tax Increase on the Working Class (Cadillac Tax) = a Republican Health Care SCAM.

Good Luck selling this to America in 2010.
America overwhelmingly wanted a Public Option (at least).

I agree with Howard Dean and Harry Truman:
"When given the choice between a Republican, and a Democrat who acts like a Republican, the voters will choose the Republican every time." ---Harry Truman

QED Massachusetts




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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-24-10 06:07 PM
Response to Reply #32
46. "Never before in American History have Americans been forced to BUY an invisible, defective product"
Edited on Wed Feb-24-10 06:10 PM by ProSense
Do you have health insurance? (You'll continue to have it, and millions without it will now get it)

Is it by choice? (You'll have more)

Is it a "defective product from a For Profit Corporation that manufactures NOTHING"? (The OP is about improving the product, lowering the cost and lessening the profit. In some instances the provider will be non-profit)



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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-24-10 07:44 PM
Response to Reply #46
54. Here:
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-24-10 08:23 PM
Response to Reply #54
56. Got no facts, huh? n/t
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-24-10 08:37 PM
Response to Reply #56
57. Got no response, huh?
I hope you enjoyed my Blue Linky Thingee.
I "borrowed" that tactic from someone here who uses bogus circular hot links all the time to make it appear her posts have some credibility.
.
.
.
I'm still laughing.



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damonm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-24-10 09:37 PM
Response to Reply #56
61. Nope. Just their determination to be bitter.
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-24-10 06:55 PM
Response to Reply #32
52. Here:
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NJmaverick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-24-10 05:13 PM
Response to Original message
36. K & R
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Sebastian Doyle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-24-10 05:46 PM
Response to Original message
42. Rewarding the pieces of shit who caused the problem does not equal "reform"
:puke:
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damonm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-24-10 09:45 PM
Response to Reply #42
62. "Rewarding"
We must use different dictionaries.

Taking away their most onerous practices (recission, pre-existing conditions),forcing them to account PUBLICLY for how they spend their money (80-85% of every dollar on ACTUAL MEDICAL CARE), and making them accountable to justify their rate increases on both state AND Federal levels doesn't seem like "reward" to me.
Yes, they WILL get a boatload of new customers - but they've been fighting against exactly this kind of regulation for YEARS.
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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-24-10 05:54 PM
Response to Original message
44. WOW!
What a great gift for insurance companies.
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Dinger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-24-10 06:26 PM
Response to Reply #44
48. Yup (nt)
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bahrbearian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-24-10 06:38 PM
Response to Reply #44
49. Don't forget the stock market.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-24-10 06:41 PM
Response to Reply #44
50. Yup.
Just wanted to join this little "say anything" group.

Got any facts?


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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-24-10 06:53 PM
Response to Reply #50
51. Yup.
Not that the facts would make any difference to someone as obviously over the moon as you.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-24-10 07:06 PM
Response to Reply #51
53. "Not that the facts would make any difference..."
Give it a try.


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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-24-10 07:55 PM
Response to Original message
55. Kick~
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