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Goddamn it. I was wrong. I apologize to my GLBT friends here at DU

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Robb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-02-10 03:22 PM
Original message
Goddamn it. I was wrong. I apologize to my GLBT friends here at DU
...and everywhere else, for that matter.

All weekend I've been telling you to shut up. Well, not in so many words, but that was the gist of it.

I kept saying, no, no, the rumors are just that, wait until Gates opens his mouth. Great things will fly out of it. The spotlight is ON, people are WATCHING, this will be IT.

Goddamn it.

I'm sitting in 2010 looking at a television that tells me they need a FUCKING YEARLONG STUDY to coddle bigots with regard to DADT. Because in a year *what* exactly will change?

Oh, and no policy announcements, either. Lots of hemming and hawing. Oh, and Mullen tweeted something.

Goddamn it.

I'm sorry. It's not fucking fair, and it's not right.

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Uzybone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-02-10 03:23 PM
Response to Original message
1. No it aint
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-02-10 03:27 PM
Response to Original message
2. It's not right. What needs further study? Delay, delay, delay. It stinks. nt
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vaberella Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-02-10 04:27 PM
Response to Reply #2
12. Exactly. n/t
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CaliforniaPeggy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-02-10 03:27 PM
Response to Original message
3. My dear Robb...
It takes a real man to admit when he's wrong.

You are that man, and I applaud your openness.

And yeah, it's not right, for sure. Damn them all to hell.

K&R

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Jennicut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-02-10 03:28 PM
Response to Original message
4. Mullen and Gates are both open to repeal....it is the rest of the military that is not open to it.
I think these men live in another time zone. They need to wake up, it is 2010.
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Hippo_Tron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-04-10 01:59 AM
Response to Reply #4
44. I think many military leaders will soon come out in favor of the repeal
Edited on Thu Feb-04-10 01:59 AM by Hippo_Tron
I think part of the reason Obama waited a year was that there was some behind the scenes persuading going on to get Mullen to publicly come out in favor of the repeal.

Of course the Republicans will trot out somebody in uniform to go on FAUX news and defend DADT. Stephen Colbert already predicted this tonight when he jokingly pointed said that Obama hasn't gotten the opinion of Colonel Sanders or Captain Crunch yet.
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CTyankee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-02-10 03:28 PM
Response to Original message
5. Fear is a big factor here. Fear of political retribution. Fear of what happens to other issues
if they piss off too many people. Fear makes people stop thinking rationally. And no one is in the room saying "Just get it done. We'll worry about the politcs of this later."

That's my initial take on this. I may be wrong but I see scared people...
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WannaJumpMyScooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-02-10 03:31 PM
Response to Original message
6. 50 years ago today 4 courageous college students
who happened to be black, sat down at a segregated lunch counter and ordered doughnuts and coffee


and we still have this shit with us.

sad
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-02-10 03:32 PM
Response to Original message
7. Thom Hartmann addressed this on his show today. He had the most simple
answer to a homophobe who called in. He said chances are that he has been naked with gay men in circumstances where he played sports or went to the gym. The military is no different and no one is interested in molesting him in the military any more than they are in any locker room shared with other men. So I think it's time to put DADT in the museum with the dough boy uniforms of WWI.
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Hell Hath No Fury Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-02-10 03:55 PM
Response to Original message
8. This was a "bone" --
thrown to the "liberals". Make no mistake, the reality is it is nothing but kicking the can down the road and giving them another year to take NO action. :puke:
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stray cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-02-10 03:59 PM
Response to Original message
9. Repost in a year
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lunatica Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-02-10 04:03 PM
Response to Original message
10. I'm glad I didn't hold my breath waiting
I hate those damn committees 'to study' things.
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Prism Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-02-10 04:24 PM
Response to Original message
11. It's why we're skeptical
Rhetoric and speeches are nice as far as they go, but we really must watch the policies and measure the concrete advances. The LGBT community is used to plentiful, and plentifully empty, promises from politicians.

My disappointment in this administration on LGBT issues just deepened - and I hardly thought that was possible after the past year.
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Berry Cool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-02-10 04:29 PM
Response to Original message
13. You're a big man, Robb
and I agree with you--"studying" this for a year is bullshit. In the meantime we're turning away how many people from military service who could be of great use to us, and for what????

I hope Keith Olbermann does a Quick Comment on this tonight.
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QC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-02-10 04:57 PM
Response to Original message
14. When this study is finished, there will be another delay.
And another.

Lather. Rinse. Repeat.
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bigwillq Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-02-10 04:58 PM
Response to Original message
15. Thanks, Robb.
:hug:
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Starry Messenger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-02-10 05:54 PM
Response to Original message
16. I've found that the GBLT people here
are really good at examining the subtext of statements with a great deal of accuracy on equality and other issues of social justice. It's probably like a sixth sense after so many years of dealing with the crap they have to put up with.
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Sebastian Doyle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-02-10 06:21 PM
Response to Original message
17. Has Wes Clark been officially retired from the military 10 years yet?
I know he retired in 2000, but I don't remember which month. We need to get him into DOD and get this leftover Bush Crime Family flunkie out of there.
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nickinSTL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-02-10 06:28 PM
Response to Original message
18. I'm feeling like this will be another issue where Obama
just isn't providing the necessary leadership, IMO.

I like Obama, I think he wants the right things, but he isn't doing a sufficient job of LEADING - of getting these things done.

It's great that he says he wants to overturn DADT, but he needs to do what's necessary to GET IT DONE.

And so far, he isn't.
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Lord Helmet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-02-10 06:44 PM
Response to Original message
19. I hope there is a moratorium in the interim.
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Divine Discontent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-02-10 06:46 PM
Response to Original message
20. I certainly hope you won't have to repost this in a year. I was angered by his comments too, but, I
do see them basically making it unlikely that people will get kicked out from here on out, at least I'm hoping....
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MadMaddie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-02-10 06:50 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. I think I heard that they would stop discharging gay military members
based on 3rd party accusations.

This has been one of worst ideas ever based solely on rumors and anonymous calls the military pursued and kicked out military personnel.
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Puglover Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-02-10 07:52 PM
Response to Original message
22. Thanks for that Robb.
It means alot. :hug:
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Lyric Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-02-10 08:04 PM
Response to Original message
23. Thank you.
I accept. Frankly, it's more than a little moving to see someone who's actually willing to bite the bullet and admit that they were wrong. That's rare around here, especially in regard to GLBTs.

:hug:
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-02-10 08:05 PM
Response to Original message
24. A quick look at the Australian armed forces policy would be all that it would take.
Then again, a quick look at the Australian two tiered health care system should have been all it took to find a successful and readily adaptable model, too.
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donheld Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-02-10 10:11 PM
Response to Original message
25. Yes it sucks
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Hydra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-02-10 10:26 PM
Response to Original message
26. I'm not officially part of the LBGT community
Although I may as well be- they'll string me up just as fast as the next LBGTer.

Regardless, I'd like to thank you for reassessing your position and coming to us. The most dangerous thing I've seen about this administration so far is in the delay and obstruction of the removal of past crap, this included.

Can I count on you to help us out with that now? Waiting helps nobody, especially not President Obama.
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Tailormyst Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-02-10 10:28 PM
Response to Original message
27. Thanks Robb- it takes a real man to apologize
Unfortunately most GBLT ( in my circle of friends anyway) were expecting this and know what will happen once it gets close too the beginning of the 20112 elections. Obama's track record in regards to us, has quite simply sucked.
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marshall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-03-10 07:11 AM
Response to Original message
28. They didn't have a study when they racially integrated the military, did they?
If I recall my history, because of necessity they just started housing blacks and whites together. There had been argument that the effectiveness of the military would fall apart, that the races weren't meant to live together, etc. But there was surprisingly little negative fallout, and life went on.
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Brewman_Jax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-03-10 08:29 AM
Response to Reply #28
29. Yes, they did
Edited on Wed Feb-03-10 08:29 AM by Brewman_Jax
there were boards and investigations held on that very topic, found at http://www.trumanlibrary.org/whistlestop/study_collecti...

Too much history has been left out for the sake of expediency.
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Robb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-03-10 08:30 AM
Response to Reply #28
30. Unofficially, yes
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HillGal Donating Member (212 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-03-10 09:14 AM
Response to Original message
31. What makes it even worse waiting a year is this, right now the
votes are probably there to repeal it, but who knows if the votes will still be there after the elections in november, there's a chance the republicans can get a majority.
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Tailormyst Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-03-10 09:28 AM
Response to Reply #31
32. I dare say that is what they are hoping for.
There is still alot of fear, ignorance and disgust in regards to the GBLT community even among Democrats and those who consider themselves liberal. They just put on a game face and never speak of it out loud.
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jesus_of_suburbia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-03-10 03:30 PM
Response to Reply #32
39. I think that's what they are hoping for. They can say they wanted to.... but they don't have the
votes anymore.


I hope I'm wrong.
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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-03-10 09:53 AM
Response to Original message
33. There are many reasons many people are pissed.
This is just one at the top of my list.

This is why people keep saying we need more than words.
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Honeycombe8 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-03-10 09:57 AM
Response to Original message
34. They're going to study HOW, not IF, is what I heard on TV. nt
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lumberjack_jeff Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-03-10 12:50 PM
Response to Original message
35. Better? or worse?
Acknowledging improvement is not the same thing as accepting injustice.

The study is intended to pave the way for the CiC's stated policy goal. I think that's improvement. The current system is unjust, and although I dislike perpetuating it for another year, I dislike perpetuating it for another decade more.
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boppers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-03-10 02:48 PM
Response to Original message
36. A yearlong effort won't be enough, but it'll be a start...
Survivor benefits?
Medical/legal authorizations by partners?
Visitation rules?
Harassment rules?
Policy and procedure changes?
Disciplinary guidelines?
Conflicts with existing state laws?
Conflicts with existing laws in foreign nations?

Even if DADT itself was lifted tomorrow, there's a huge number of considerations and ramifications that come with changing it.
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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-03-10 02:53 PM
Response to Original message
37. It's a shame some of the posters who were mocking the lack of comment from DUers last week...
...aren't half the person you are.

:toast:
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Hekate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-03-10 03:07 PM
Response to Original message
38. You're right; this is wrong. BUT-- Rachel caught Carl Levin telling Holy Joe that it easily....
... be slipped into a defense appropriations bill (which was how it got passed into law in the first place) where it would take only a simple majority to pass the whole bill, but 60 votes to take that one piece out. A simple majority.

I am chagrined and disappointed that the notion of a year-long study was broached, disgusted that Joe Lieberman was so oily in his approval of that idea (when did he get to be such a schmuck?), and yet VERY encouraged by what Senator Carl Levin interrupted Lieberman to say in response.

That is our wee little ray of sunshine.

Hekate
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jesus_of_suburbia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-03-10 03:36 PM
Response to Reply #38
40. "disgusted that Joe Lieberman was so oily in his approval of that idea"
he is quite a piece of shit, isn't he?


Is he worried that Israel allows gays openly into the military?

Is he worried that Israel has Universal healthcare?





/ not an anti-semite here


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Hekate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-03-10 04:04 PM
Response to Reply #40
41. I gotcha. Is there any cognitive dissonance going on in his head at all? nt
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jesus_of_suburbia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-04-10 12:55 AM
Response to Reply #41
42. He's the Dem (oops, Independent) version of McCain.
They are both old enough that they shouldn't be changing their minds depending on which way the wind blows.
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Hippo_Tron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-04-10 01:52 AM
Response to Original message
43. The fact that Mullen came out in favor of it is huge, though
Despite the lies that will be told by Republicans, Mullen does not speak for the President. Clinton had not one but two chairmen of the joint chiefs openly oppose him on gays in the military.

Yes a year sucks, this absurd policy should've been gone decades ago. But it's better to wait a year and get it right than get it wrong and have to wait another few decades.
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Kltpzyxm Donating Member (135 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-04-10 05:32 AM
Response to Original message
45. But, but
This is an election year.

Fucking cowards.
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