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What if President Obama is right?

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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 10:41 PM
Original message
What if President Obama is right?
What if he delivers health care reform (spending), climate change (spending) and jobs/economic recovery (spending), and reduces the deficit?

Some people have devoted considerable energy to the notion that President Obama is wrong, but what if he's right?

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Tansy_Gold Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 10:42 PM
Response to Original message
1. And what if he's not? nt
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 10:43 PM
Response to Reply #1
6. That has been played out over and over. What if he's right? n/t
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goclark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 10:48 PM
Response to Reply #6
15. K
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Xipe Totec Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 10:42 PM
Response to Original message
2. How far right? n/t
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DJ13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 10:42 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. ouch!
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boppers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 10:43 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. Badump bump. eom
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 10:44 PM
Response to Reply #2
7. No answer? n/t
Edited on Mon Jan-25-10 10:44 PM by ProSense
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Xipe Totec Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 10:48 PM
Response to Reply #7
14. With what discretionary budget do you expect this magic to happen?
HCR has been gutted, and he's freezing discretionary spending.

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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 10:50 PM
Response to Reply #14
17. Read:
The President is proposing a small targeted freeze in some areas.

"HCR has been gutted, and he's freezing discretionary spending"

What?

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Xipe Totec Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 10:53 PM
Response to Reply #17
21. Read:
Washington (CNN) -- President Obama will announce in Wednesday's State of the Union address that he's proposing to save $250 billion by freezing all nonsecurity federal discretionary spending for three years, according to two senior administration officials.

http://www.cnn.com/2010/POLITICS/01/25/obama.spending.f...

That "small targeted freeze" is just all of the discretionary spending.
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Political Heretic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 11:00 PM
Response to Reply #17
28. "Small Targeted Freeze" = 250 billion dollars stripped away from poor people.
Discretionary spending, when you have already promised not to freeze military spending, or veterans affairs spending (a good thing) or spending in several other areas, basically means freezing spending on social investment programs, emergency assistance, housing programs - basically anything that benefits the poor.

Since "they don't vote" anyway, they are an easy target.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 11:07 PM
Response to Reply #28
33. Wrong.
Officials: Obama will propose three-year spending freeze

President Barack Obama will propose a three-year freeze in non-security discretionary spending, senior administration officials said Monday.

His budget proposal, to be unveiled in part with Wednesday's State of the Union speech and in detail next week, will urge Congress to keep overall spending at $447 billion a year for agencies other than those charged with national security and mandatory-spending programs such as Social Security and Medicare.

The freeze would take effect with the 2011 fiscal year starting Oct. 1 ...

It also wouldn't affect a 154 billion (dollar) jobs plan pending before Congress and backed by Obama, the officials said. One aide said that plan would be exempt because it would take effect this year, before the freeze.

Administration officials, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to not upstage the president, said that the three-year freeze would save $250 billion over a decade if it's approved by an election-year Congress.




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Political Heretic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 11:45 PM
Response to Reply #33
45. Umm.. Wrong? No, the news only confirms it.
The remaining programs you can "freeze" in discretionary spending, after all the things the administration says it will not freeze are primarily dominated by social welfare funding.

Public Housing and housing assistance in all its forms. Community Development Block Grants which fund and support a huge array of community social services, housing programs, food support, energy and rental assistance, adult educational programs (money management, working training, and so on) one time debt assistance and a host of other state and local programs and state and local agencies that depend on discretionary funding to survive. Non-mandatory education and early-education programs. And on and on.

After you remove all of the things the administation says they won't touch, the bulk of what's left is funding for social welfare services that poor people desperately need.




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Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 11:15 PM
Response to Reply #7
36. that IS the answer
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donco6 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 10:45 PM
Response to Reply #2
9. .
:rofl:
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Kurt_and_Hunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 10:46 PM
Response to Reply #2
12. Zingggg
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Jim Sagle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 10:57 PM
Response to Reply #2
24. As far right as he goddamn well feels like.
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Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 11:14 PM
Response to Reply #2
35. yup
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customerserviceguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 11:18 PM
Response to Reply #2
38. Good one!
You hit the nail on the head there. There is no way that he's going to make the reich wing like him, no matter what he does.
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arcadian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 11:20 PM
Response to Reply #2
39. This DUzy should stickied to the top of every forum
This is worthy of a lifetime achievement award.

:rofl:
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ProgressIn2008 Donating Member (848 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-26-10 12:40 AM
Response to Reply #2
50. Heh. nt
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liberal N proud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 10:43 PM
Response to Original message
4. Oh, but he can't be
So many have already thrown in the towel. He didn't change the world enough, fast enough.


:sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm:



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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 10:46 PM
Response to Reply #4
10. Yup. n/t
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Ozymanithrax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 10:45 PM
Response to Original message
8. Is it better to do nothing and fail than to do something and face failure?
I am one of the do something croud, but we are not a large croud.
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jkshaw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 10:56 PM
Response to Reply #8
23. I'm with you O,
do something for Pete's sake, and do it now. We've been too long fiddling around with Health Care, we've got to pass something, right now. And if Obama can cut spending on something like Abstinence Only, for instance, or farm subsidies under which huge factory farms get the biggest boost, good for him and his economic team. We've then got to watch Congress who will see a cut in something effecting his or her state to make sure he or she doesn't put the spending right back in.

The budget breaking stuff will always be jammed in when Congress gets hold of the bill.
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NYC_SKP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 10:46 PM
Response to Original message
11. Too late, ProSense. This has already gone viral as the Outrage du jour, or week, whatever...
:eyes:

Of course nothing has even officially been said, and what might happen is unknown, and it might even be a good thing.

Go figure.

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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 10:47 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. Yup.
:rofl:

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jefferson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 10:51 PM
Response to Reply #11
18. Priceless pic...
and so true.

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Clio the Leo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 11:00 PM
Response to Reply #11
29. Oh, something has been said alright....
.... read "The Audacity of Hope" pages 187-189.

No one should be surprised.
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jefferson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 10:49 PM
Response to Original message
16. Then the same folks will find something else to whine about.
Easy peasy.
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stevedeshazer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 10:51 PM
Response to Original message
19. It's way too early to tell whether he's right or not.
In the long run, spending now on all three is an investment in the future.
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Fleshdancer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 10:51 PM
Response to Original message
20. I'll be the first to stand up and admit I was wrong for doubting him.
I'm still on a "wait and see" regarding the HCR, but I'm not optimistic. This sudden spending freeze has me very concerned because the timing seems more politically motivated than anything else. Would they be doing this if Brown lost in MA?

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Political Heretic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 10:55 PM
Response to Original message
22. This isn't a challenging question.
Edited on Mon Jan-25-10 10:57 PM by Political Heretic
It's not a guess that makes us opposed to this administration's policy positions. It's disagreement with the direction (not the "speed") of such policies.

To those who oppose the policy direction of this administration and democratic national political leaders, the only way for this administration to be "right" it to change its policy direction.

Pretty simple.

In the opinion of me and my friends that stand together in solidarity, this administration can't turn out to be "right" until it changes direction and chooses to priorities the needs of poor and working class individuals and families ahead of the wants and whims of the financial elite.

Prioritizing the needs of poor and working class individuals and families necessarily means confronting head on the structural injustices intrinsic to our political and economic system.

Here's what that change in direction might look like:


For nearly four years you have had an Administration which instead of twirling its thumbs has rolled up its sleeves. We will keep our sleeves rolled up.

We had to struggle with the old enemies of peacebusiness and financial monopoly, speculation, reckless banking, class antagonism, sectionalism, war profiteering.

They had begun to consider the Government of the United States as a mere appendage to their own affairs. We know now that Government by organized money is just as dangerous as Government by organized mob.

Never before in all our history have these forces been so united against one candidate as they stand today. They are unanimous in their hate for meand I welcome their hatred.


Was that some piece of "ridiculous nonsense" written by some "FireDogLake idiot?"

No, it was FDR at the Democratic National Convention of 1936 (never in my life time have I heard any Democrat have the courage to speak such bold truth about the failures of the very structure of our economic system - instead they obfuscate, rationalize, compromises and cower)
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ibegurpard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 11:17 PM
Response to Reply #22
37. Amen
n/t
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 11:26 PM
Response to Reply #22
41. The OP has nothing to do with speed.
The question is exactly as posed: What if Obama is right (meaning his agenda and direction)?

We've all see the criticism of policies, but what if Obama is right?

"this administration can't turn out to be 'right' until it changes direction "

So your conclusion is that he's wrong because he's wrong? What if he isn't?

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Political Heretic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 11:38 PM
Response to Reply #41
43. It's a meaningless question.
It's no more meaningful than asking, what if conservative republicans turn out to be "right?" What will you do?

If you believe that the needs of ordinary families must be prioritized ahead of the whims of the financial elite, then conservative republicans - by definition - cannot be "right" - because the very definition of republican conservatism is based on something I believe to be both wrong and unjust.

In order to answer a question about "right" we'd have to agree on what "turning out to be right" means. The only way this administration could "turn out to be right" in my book would be to change policy directions radically. There's no other conditions in which it would be literally possible for the administration to "be right." The economy will likely turn around eventually. These two war will likely end eventually. Is that the definition of "turned out to be right?"

To me "right" means addressing structural injustices embedded at the heart of our political economic system. Any politician failing to address these structural failures cannot "turn out to be right" by definition.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 11:39 PM
Response to Reply #43
44. Yet you responded with prose. n/t
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CreekDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 10:58 PM
Response to Original message
25. I'm all for him delivering those things
Edited on Mon Jan-25-10 10:59 PM by CreekDog
But I'm not supporting a 3-year freeze and a piecemeal, suckier approach to healthcare than even the Senate Bill, to help him deliver promises.

They are obviously deciding I've got nowhere as a voter to go (and that is undoubtedly true).

But one place I may not go is to spend a cold day in November in Reno, Nevada as I did in 2008.
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jillan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 10:58 PM
Response to Original message
26. Isn't the question whether he can get it passed or not?
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liberalmuse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 10:59 PM
Response to Original message
27. That would ruin all the fun here, wouldn't it?
So he MUST be wrong! Let's pile on the one person who is busting his ass to fix the crap the Republicans dumped on us for 8 years (and longer). I'm disgusted with liberals right now. We don't need to go right, but we sure as hell aren't going to win tipping the boat all the way to the left.
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tridim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 11:04 PM
Response to Reply #27
30. So true. nt
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 11:10 PM
Response to Reply #27
34. You have to believe the President is wrong
or you don't belong. You must resort to ridicule or you're not kewl.

Poet!


:rofl:

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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 11:48 PM
Response to Reply #34
46. I never thought the
little victims were anything but sad.
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Political Heretic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 11:51 PM
Response to Reply #27
47. How would you know?
"but we sure as hell aren't going to win tipping the boat all the way to the left. "

How would you know?

Oh, I keep for getting you and I have a very different definition of "winning."

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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 11:05 PM
Response to Original message
31. Our country will be
better for it..it's suffered horribly under bushcheney and with President Obama we immediately started dealing in reality and correcting it.

I don't care what the whining chorus of internetools have to say anymore.

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arcadian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 11:23 PM
Response to Reply #31
40. Don't for get
It's "click your heels three times"
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valerief Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 11:05 PM
Response to Original message
32. Chess game.. Sausage making. Have you heard of the SCOTUS ruling?
Game over. We're all going through the grinder. We are Soylent Green.
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MercutioATC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 11:31 PM
Response to Original message
42. What if my dog really IS giving me stock tips?
Remotely possible, but highly unlikely...and listening to him would probably not end well.
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KingFlorez Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 11:51 PM
Response to Original message
48. I do think he knows what he is doing
The country has a lot of needs that require spending, but we've got to get the deficit down as well. The President has to be able to multitask and Obama is capable of doing it.
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donheld Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-26-10 12:16 AM
Response to Original message
49. What if George Clooney pledged his undying love for me?
What if I won the power ball? What if I really do get a pony?
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dionysus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-26-10 09:17 AM
Response to Original message
51. trust me. whatever he does, not matter what, won't be good enough.
trust me.
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