Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

President Obama to propose a three-year freeze on non-security discretionary spending,

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » General Discussion: Presidency Donate to DU
 
CK_John Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 07:03 PM
Original message
President Obama to propose a three-year freeze on non-security discretionary spending,
senior officials say.

Reported by CNN/ What do you think?

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
niyad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 07:04 PM
Response to Original message
1. the banks got theirs, the MIC continues to get theirs, and the people get screwed?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
villager Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 07:05 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. "the people?" When are their lobbyists ever on the Hill?
n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 07:05 PM
Response to Original message
3. Keith Olbermann is covering that in his opener
$477M. Pentagon, VA, and Homeland Security are excluded.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
izquierdista Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 07:15 PM
Response to Original message
4. It's the 'security' spending that is the problem
Chicken Littles running around yelling "security! security!" are the biggest waste of money out there.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Salviati Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 07:27 PM
Response to Reply #4
12. It's like I've always told people
If you're "concerned about the budget", but aren't willing to cut military spending, then your concerns are bullshit, doesn't matter if you're a Democrat or a Republican.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
brentspeak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 07:15 PM
Response to Original message
5. Gee, what a suprise -- military spending NOT to be among the cuts
Our tax dollars are still going right down the toilet.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
niyad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 07:31 PM
Response to Reply #5
15. as I heard on DN yesterday, to the tune of SEVEN HUNDRED TWENTY MILLION a day in iraq and
afghanistan. not to mention the black budget, the suplementary war spending, etc., etc.,
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
amborin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 08:15 PM
Response to Reply #5
30. +1000
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TheCowsCameHome Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 07:16 PM
Response to Original message
6. Cut the military, then come back for a chat.
Fuck this.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Jennicut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 07:17 PM
Response to Original message
7. Isn't Medicare and Social Security also excluded?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DJ13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 07:21 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. Social Security benefits were already frozen
There was no COLA for 2010, and the government has been talking about no inflation adjustment for 2011 either.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Jennicut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 07:31 PM
Response to Reply #10
14. Thanks for the info.
Wondered what discretionary spending was.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Jeff In Milwaukee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 07:54 PM
Response to Reply #10
19. They weren't "frozen"
By law, the Cost of Living for Social Security is determined by the Consumer Price Index for Urban Workers (known as CPI-W). For the past year there was No Increase in the CPI-W, and so there is no COLA for Social Security.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DJ13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 07:59 PM
Response to Reply #19
22. True or false
Federal employees DID get a cost of living adjustment?

Now bonus question.

Whats the difference between no increase due to a sexed up CPI number and a freeze the results in no increase?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Jeff In Milwaukee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 08:05 PM
Response to Reply #22
26. There was no increase in the CPI-W
Got a problem with that, take it up with the Bureau of Labor Statistics.

Federal employees are not Social Security recipients. Their pay is not established by the same rules as benefits under Social Security.

My point is that the Obama Administration did not arbitrarily decide to "freeze" the COLA under Social Security. It's established by law.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DJ13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 08:14 PM
Response to Reply #26
28. Another question
If its not a "freeze", but its based on some CPI number, how can the government already have said they dont see a COLA for next year either?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Jeff In Milwaukee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 08:44 PM
Response to Reply #28
35. They didn't say that....
Social Security is not considered Discretionary Spending.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DJ13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 08:51 PM
Response to Reply #35
36. They didn't say that....
And if you are currently receiving Social Security benefits, you are in for a surprise.

The Social Security and Medicare Trustees are predicting that you and other Social Security beneficiaries will not receive an annual cost-of-living adjustment (COLA) in either 2010 or 2011.

This is the first time in more than 30 years that the Social Security Administration has failed to come through with an annual increase in benefits.

The trustees also predict that the Social Security cost-of-living adjustment (COLA) in 2012 will be only 1.4 percent. By contrast, the 2008 Social Security COLA was 2.3 percent

and the 2009 COLA was 5.8 percent. Its ironic that Social Security benefits recipients are facing two years of no COLA increase following 2009s increasewhich was the largest annual cost-of-living adjustment for Social Security benefits recipients since 1982.


http://seniorliving.about.com/od/socialsecurity101/a/re...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Jeff In Milwaukee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 08:57 PM
Response to Reply #36
37. Apples and Oranges....
The trustees are simply stating that they don't see an increase in the Cost of Living next year per the established process. That's not the same as the Administration mandating no Social Security COLA regardless of the CPI-W.

You're conflating two entirely different things.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DJ13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 09:00 PM
Response to Reply #37
38. Is the Amazing Kreskin doing the CPI compilation for them?
Seriously, who can honestly say there wont be any inflation for two straight years, and only 1.2% in the third year?

And how can anyone defend that?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Jeff In Milwaukee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 09:05 PM
Response to Reply #38
39. It's a projection....
Economists do it all the time.

Jesus Christ, are you being willfully dense? The pre-announcement by the Obama Administration says that the freeze will be on discretionary spending, which doesn't include Social Security. There's no freeze. None. It's not even particularly slushy. Get it?

At the same time, we have a prediction that there will be no CPI-W increase in 2010 and, hence, no Cost of Living Increase for Social Security.

Two two are not tied to one another.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DJ13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 09:26 PM
Response to Reply #39
45. Im not dense, you are
I said waaay up thread theres no difference to the SS recipients between an announced freeze and no COLA due to some fictitious numbers.

Later in the thread I pointed out that its true, they're already "projecting" the same result a year out, leaving the same result as a freeze.

Call it what you want, but if you lived on Social Security theres no difference.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Jeff In Milwaukee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-26-10 06:06 AM
Response to Reply #45
49. Oh Dear God....
I agree with you. But there's a significant difference between an Administration-mandated "freeze" on COLA and the fact that, according to the process used for determining the COLA, that there is none. One is a mandate from the adminstration, the other is simply following the established formula.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Carolina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 08:18 PM
Response to Reply #19
32. your're right that it's tied to the CPI
and interestingly the CPI doesn't include food and medicine!

And although there was no COLA, Medicare costs went up. I care for my elderly father and this lack of COLA with increased Medicare hurts.

I am really disgusted with Obama.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Honeycombe8 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 09:38 PM
Response to Reply #10
47. Yeah...SS is tied to the cost of living. We're in a recession. There is not COL increase right now
nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DuaneBidoux Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-26-10 10:27 AM
Response to Reply #10
58. That was actually based on CPI which experienced a slight decline.
Of course there is no way that measures what happened.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
CreekDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 09:11 PM
Response to Reply #7
41. wait for the deficit commission to take care of that
God help us.

I mean if we're talking about 3 year spending freezes, who knows what he will agree to next.

My only hope is that this is bullshit of the false kind, not bullshit of the bullshit kind.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 07:19 PM
Response to Original message
8. OMG, he's gonna kill grandma!
:sarcasm:

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Carolina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 08:20 PM
Response to Reply #8
33. wipe away the sarcasm
the lack of COLA but increase in Medicare does hurt some of us! And it will get worse.

Obama is a fucking disaster.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
CreekDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 09:13 PM
Response to Reply #8
42. No, but if she gets any food stamps, I doubt she'll be eating as well
oh well. :(
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-26-10 07:29 AM
Response to Reply #42
52. Nope. Those programs aren't getting cut. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
CreekDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-26-10 09:48 AM
Response to Reply #52
55. and if they don't get increased they wont' provide as much
gosh, i feel like i'm arguing with a Republican against a Republican policy.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-26-10 09:57 AM
Response to Reply #55
56. On THAT you might be correct. I'm not sure if they're getting increased or not.
Edited on Tue Jan-26-10 09:57 AM by Ian David
Some programs will get increased, while others will get cut.

I did read that assistance programs will not get CUT.

Not sure which ones will get increased.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 07:21 PM
Response to Original message
9. 1937...
might help strengthen the US dollar though, prior to the upcoming interest rate rises.

Small solace.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
lib2DaBone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 07:25 PM
Response to Original message
11. Just great.. cut domestic spending.....but not the military...
This will push us off into Depression II for sure.

What the hell Mr. Obama.. what are you doing?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Jeff In Milwaukee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 07:29 PM
Response to Original message
13. This seems very wrong...
If you're freezing discretionary spending, then you've effectively tied your hands with regard to stimulus spending (or healthcare reform).

I would be surprised to learn this is true.

Beyond that, the House controls the purse strings, so a proposal from the White House is not binding.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DJ13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 07:34 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. Maybe Obama WANTS his hands tied?
What better excuse to begin dismantling our remaining entitlement programs than to claim he has no choice?

Dovetails nicely with that deficit commission he's in favor of.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Jeff In Milwaukee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 07:50 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. Why would he want that?
The Senate is proposing a $82 billion jobs program that couldn't be created under these circumstances. Hell, Obama HIMSELF today rolled out a laundry list of proposals to benefit the Middle Class that wouldn't be possible.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Imajika Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 07:53 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. TARP money...
I could be wrong, but I think they plan to use the repaid and leftover TARP money as a sort of slush fund for the next couple years.

This is why Republicans tried to end the program, and Democrats voted against ending it.

Honestly, this is really just smoke and mirrors.

The President will still have plenty of billions for job creation programs, etc.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Jeff In Milwaukee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 07:55 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. That's possible...
I haven't heard that for certain, but now that you mention it, I had heard the being suggested.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
dionysus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-26-10 08:14 AM
Response to Reply #17
54. crazy-ass conspiracy theories used to stay in the realm of the rethugs...
black helicopters are next...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
fasttense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 07:58 PM
Response to Original message
21. A spending freeze was McCain's worn out idea and Obama said it was not a good idea
in the middle of a recession.

Maybe Obama should try out at least some of his campaign promises before turning to McCain's worn out ideas.

This is the stupidest thing Obama has done to date. A guarantee that unemployment will continue to be high and the 2nd RepubliCON Great Depression will be with us for a good long while.

If we wanted a stupid spending freeze on Domestic items, we would have voted for McCain.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
jgraz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 08:01 PM
Response to Original message
23. Did the 10% unemployment suddenly evaporate?
Jesus... :banghead:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 08:02 PM
Response to Original message
24. Well that's just fucking great.
Looks like he's taking yet another page from the pugs.

This is some sick fucking shit. With all the poor people we have, more being added every single day, how can this possibly help?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 08:03 PM
Response to Original message
25. Wasn't a spending freeze what Herbert Hoover did to deal with the Great Depression?
And how is the same prescription going to work for the Great Recession?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Jeff In Milwaukee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 08:08 PM
Response to Reply #25
27. Post #18
If they recycle TARP money, there is potential several hundred billion dollars to spend on domestic spending. But that's under the assumption that those funds will be available, which still isn't clear to me.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DeschutesRiver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 08:15 PM
Response to Original message
29. I'm okay with it.
Edited on Mon Jan-25-10 08:16 PM by DeschutesRiver
If we are to get back on our feet in what is left of my lifetime, some ugly truths have to be faced and some ugly things have to be done. I know Obama is a smart guy, and I wondered why it was taking so long. I have some theories, but suffice it to say that he has access to info that I must only guess at, and apparently the timing is now for the start of what is to come.

If this move seems like some ugly shit, then you may find yourself redefining what ugly is over the next 6 months to a year, because this is nothing compared to what is coming. Doing ugly necessary things is what I expect a real leader to do, not smile nice and make friends, not when we are in the middle of an economic shitstorm decades in forming.

If he is headed where I think he is, despite the uncharted waters nature of our issues, then I wish him well in his effort. Because he won't be popular again until the end results of his moves are known and examined in history books years from now.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
jesus_of_suburbia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 09:24 PM
Response to Reply #29
44. I think you might be right. Otherwise, it doesn't make sense.
We'll see in the coming months.

If Pres Obama does this, I'm assuming he knows we are in deep shit and it has to be done.


Let's see how it pans out.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DeschutesRiver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 09:53 PM
Response to Reply #44
48. Time is will tell, for sure
It has been a year of watching things that don't make sense that made me wonder. Of course, they only made no sense if I insisted that there was a magic recovery wand to wave for a quick recovery and if I ignored a lot of things. So I approached it from the reverse - what could be going on that would make sense of all these moves?

All I could come up with is that we are going to crash, and he thinks we can do a controlled crash landing, instead of a spin into the ground head first with few or no survivors. Their job has been to make do with not what they want, but what they have on hand, and to secure the pure survival of as many as possible when this thing goes down. I don't think we are going to get a Capt. Sully kind of crash landing, but if we are lucky, we might be like those passengers that went down in the cornfield after the top of their plane blew off. The economy will need as much repair as that plane, but we will live through it, though probably scarred by the memories.

Seeing that he feels it is finally time to start smacking the banks, and cutting needed services, it likely means that some of the gloomier analysis I've read over the last year is more accurate than I'd hoped. I am worried, but I've done what I can to put my life/finances in order, and I help others where I can.

A societal screw up of this magnitude, starting decades ago, simply isn't going to vanish without major pain for everyone. I don't know if Obama will be as masterful about handling this as I hope (bet some days he isn't so sure, either), but at this point I'd rather have him be the one leading us out of this than anyone else I can think of. Even if some of the ugly necessary pisses me off - I should be mad at those who put us here, not the guy willing to take on cleaning up the mess.

We will see.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
neverforget Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 08:18 PM
Response to Original message
31. Must be listening to Evan Bayh.
http://www.journalgazette.net/article/20100123/NEWS03/3...

WASHINGTON President Obama should freeze all non-mandatory spending, Sen. Evan Bayh, D-Ind., said Friday.

In Obamas first State of the Union address next week, Bayh said in an interview with Bloomberg Television, he should announce hes drawing a line in the sand and will veto any legislation that raises spending.

Non-mandatory spending, also called the discretionary budget, pays for national defense, education programs, transportation projects, science, international affairs and agriculture.

Mandatory spending, which makes up two-thirds of the federal budget, pays for Social Security, Medicare, interest on the national debt and other expenses that Congress and the president cannot change.

Bayh said he thinks theres a fighting chance Obama will use the address to Congress on Wednesday night to call for the spending freeze and back it up with a veto threat.

We can do something right here, right now, starting next week, he said.

Ah Jesus..... :banghead: Looks like the lesson the White House learned from Brown's election was to be more Republican. Spending freeze! Our new rallying cry! It'll surely rally the Democrats now! :sarcasm:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 08:22 PM
Response to Original message
34. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
CreekDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 09:09 PM
Response to Original message
40. No more money for food stamps, no more for the environment, no more for science, no more for...
education, health, housing, uhhhhh...

did i miss anything?

i guess some could get increases if we cut the others. ah, that makes me feel better...1%

even Clinton didn't propose that, even after losing both houses of congress.

i hope we keep both houses of congress so that they can...

oh nevermind...i forgot...the spending freeze. :wtf: :banghead:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
jeanpalmer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 09:14 PM
Response to Original message
43. Amounts to almost nothing
A couple billion at most. It will be dwarfed by the extra $30 billion a year spent in Afghanistan for the additional 30,000 troops. That's why it's hard to take this as a serious effort. Seems more like another pr gimmick.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
phleshdef Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 09:35 PM
Response to Original message
46. From all the info I see, this looks like its mainly gonna be a cut on earmark money...
...from AP...

"The spending freeze would apply to a relatively small portion of the federal budget, affecting a $477 billion pot of money available for domestic agencies whose budgets are approved by Congress each year."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_obama_jobs
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Mass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-26-10 06:54 AM
Response to Original message
50. Bad idea. In theory, it could work, but in practice, which programs do you think Congress will end
Edited on Tue Jan-26-10 06:54 AM by Mass
up cutting. Those helping poor people and the middle class.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Vinca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-26-10 07:08 AM
Response to Original message
51. If this means "bombs, yes"- "Grandma's cost of living raise, no" -
I will be furious. It's bad enough those of us without medical care have been set adrift. Domestic spending should not be the last priority.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
freddie mertz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-26-10 07:33 AM
Response to Original message
53. Well, it's yet another sign that the prez is shifting to the right.
Guess that "populist" theme has been dropped after about two days.

These folks seem to have no core principles at all, grasping at straws.

Disgusting, lame, useless.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Norrin Radd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-26-10 09:58 AM
Response to Original message
57. We need a freeze on right-wing policy.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Thu Aug 21st 2014, 06:34 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » General Discussion: Presidency Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC