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grasswire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 05:24 PM
Original message
If the 2012 choice were an Eisenhower Republican or a DLC Dem...
...who would you support?

Here's an example of the way Eisenhower thought in 1953, for the youngsters:

"Every gun that's made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed.
This world in arms is not spending money alone. It's spending the sweat of its laborers, the genius of its scientists, the hopes of its children."

Our own DU Magistrate wrote this in 2006 about Ike:

"Opposed two elements in the Republican Party of his day.
He opposed the isolationists, represented by Sen. Taft of Ohio, popularly known at the time as "Mr. Republican" for his stature in the Party. This wing was so firm in its old-line views it was even somewhat reluctant to engage in the Cold War, as this required foreign entanglements and commitments beyond the shores of the U.S. itself, though it was firmly hostile to Communism.

He opposed the claque pressing for immediate war with the Soviet Union, and their propagandas of Soviet predominance in strategic weapons, typified best by Gen. LeMay, then chief of the Strategic Air Command. Ideologues of this claque included Phylis Schlafly, and are the real ancestors of the modern Reppublican Party.

Gen. Eisenhower came from a generation of resolutely a-political regular officers, many of whom took that ideal so seriously they refrained even from voting. Most of these men were, naturally enough, authoritarian and traditionalist in their personal views. His commitment to upholding the status quo included acceptance of New Deal measures, as these were already decades old and part of the national fabric. His personal views on racial questions were the normal genteel racism of the time, but he was willing to use force to uphold court decisions expanding civil rights. In economic matters he ceded policy to the usual suspects from business circles, with he result that his adminitration was plagued by several recessions.

His great contribution to the country, and the world, was keeping a rein on the war claque: it seems quite likely to me any other political figure in the U.S. at that time would have been stampeded into a nuclear war with the Soviets while we still had a decisive advantage in numver war-heads and efficiency of delivery systems. These things, while sufficient to ensure the Soviets would have been far more badly damaged, would not have sufficed to prevent the deaths of many millions in the U.S., had the event come to pass."

And of course he believed in the common good, in building infrastructure, and he was instrumental in advancing the Civil Rights movement. He desegregated the District of Columbia, he desegregated the Army, and he sent federal troops into Little Rock when it counted.

So what think ye? Could an old-time Republican attract the interest of Dems who are fed up with our current two corporatist parties?
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redwitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 05:25 PM
Response to Original message
1. Ain't no such animal. All extinct.
At least on the national stage.
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grasswire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 05:35 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. now, maybe
But as more and more people become disaffected, a huge bloc is created.
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TheCowsCameHome Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 05:27 PM
Response to Original message
2. I saw one in a museum once.
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CJCRANE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 05:29 PM
Response to Original message
3. An "old-time Republican" couldn't even attract the interest of Republicans.
It's a nonstarter.
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ibegurpard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 10:19 PM
Response to Reply #3
15. this
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Nite Owl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 05:33 PM
Response to Original message
4. Anyone with an R after his name
these days cannot be trusted. I wouldn't believe him unless he ran as an Independent.

Ike used to be a 'centrist'. Now he would be a progressive with statements like that.
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grasswire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 05:36 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. yes, I agree
perhaps I worded my OP badly. I should have asked if a candidate with old-time Eisenhower values would be more attractive than a DLC Dem without casting him/her as a Republican.
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Nite Owl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 05:45 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. Absolutely!
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Hippo_Tron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 06:09 PM
Response to Original message
8. Due respect, Eisenhower shares a serious part of the burden for the military industrial complex
People forget the extent to which he slammed the Truman Administration for "losing China" (something completely beyond their control) and not using nuclear weapons to solve the Korea stalemate (something that was absolutely ridiculous and he wouldn't have done himself). It worked marvelously for them and since then pretty much everybody running for the White House has done similar things.

Eisenhower and the 1952 campaign created a political climate where hawkishness was the only viable position. Disagreement over use of force or the extent of a use of force in any particular area was not merely a disagreement anymore. An opponent of the use of force was now a weak dovish commie sympathizer. Every candidate (save maybe George McGovern) since then has pretty much run as a hawk and every Democratic President has felt the political necessity to demonstrate their hawkishness.

Yes I do wish the Republicans still ran people like Eisenhower. It would mean that if the other guy wins, I don't have to lose sleep over the prospect of the President appointing right wing lunatics to the Supreme Court and being totally incapable of responding to a natural disaster. But I still wouldn't vote for someone like him.
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SharonAnn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 10:18 PM
Response to Reply #8
14. JFK used the "Quemoy and Matsu" issue to establish his militaristic bona fides.
Since his campaign speeches on this, has anyboy ever heard of Quemoy and Matsu?

Islands off China, I think, and something to do with needing a more belligerent posture against the Red Chinese.

I was a kid then so I may not remember it exactly. But I've never forgotten the names of these places since I saw and heard JFK bring it up in a debate with Nixon.
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Hippo_Tron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-26-10 12:17 AM
Response to Reply #14
25. Something he did because Eisenhower did it
Eisenhower (on advice from his nutjob Secretary of State John Foster Dulles) practically started a war with China over the insignificant islands of Quemoy and Matsu. Of course he used restraint in the end because of the possibility that such a conflict would get the Soviet Union involved and thus become nuclear. In other words, he did what any rational sane person would do.

JFK basically then called the Eisenhower administration pussies for doing what any rational sane person would do. Not that I'm blaming him because it was the only way to win given that Nixon was saying that you can't trust Democrats to be "tough on communism".

All of this hawkishness = toughness = safety and security bullshit started with Eisenhower. Before then, peace candidates were actually viable.
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iceman66 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 06:24 PM
Response to Original message
9. Eisenhower would be a Democrat now.
Even Nixon seems like a liberal compared to today's Republicans.
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Armstead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 06:34 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. Nixon seems like a liberal compared to many Democrats these days
Sorry, cheap shot....couldn't resist :hide:
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brentspeak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 07:14 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. Nixon was 100x more liberal on domestic issues/economy than most Dems today, no question n/t
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Jennicut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 06:36 PM
Response to Original message
11. The Repub party wouldn't want that kind of candidate. They barely wanted McLame.
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SemiCharmedQuark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 07:18 PM
Response to Original message
13. Anyone who aligns themselves with the party of Palin is not getting my vote.
But since such a Republican doesn't even exist on the national scene, you might as well ask if I'd vote for a DLCer or a unicorn.
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grasswire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 10:48 PM
Response to Reply #13
19. okay what about Lincoln Chafee?
I think it's possible to see a whole new kind as the center of politics becomes wider and wider and corporatists are increasingly despised.
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SemiCharmedQuark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 10:51 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. The guy who became an Independent?
Edited on Mon Jan-25-10 10:52 PM by SemiCharmedQuark
The Republican party is made up of nutballs.
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Ex Lurker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 10:27 PM
Response to Original message
16. One minor correction
it was Truman who desegregated the armed forces.
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Kaleva Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 11:11 PM
Response to Reply #16
22. It wasn't finally complete until Ike was in office.
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IDemo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 10:39 PM
Response to Original message
17. The Pubs nowadays are no longer conservatives, so much as libertarians
Except for that nasty ongoing warfare thing, that is.
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KingFlorez Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 10:47 PM
Response to Original message
18. A Republican like Eisenhower would be cut down in the GOP primary
They aren't interested in types like that, only radical demagogues.
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HooptieWagon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 10:48 PM
Response to Original message
20. Ike in a heartbeat.
Hell, even Nixon was more liberal than the DLCers...
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Brother Buzz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 11:17 PM
Response to Original message
23. Eisenhower on Earl Warren: "the biggest damned-fool mistake I ever made"
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 11:27 PM
Response to Original message
24. I can't think of an Eisenhower Republican left in the Senate
Eisenhower's son endorsed Kerry, whose father was a career diplomat in the Eisenhower era, in 2004, and Eisenhower's granddaughter endorsed Obama.
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proteus_lives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-26-10 02:49 AM
Response to Original message
26. I like Ike!
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