In a two party system non-partisans have only one option to express displeasure for whatever reason

[TheKentuckian]

and it is to "vote the bums out".

Are we taking on special interests and putting people first or do we continue to work toward the goals of the big banks, the insurance cartel, pharma, the military industrial complex?

The real self deception is that we have produced for working people or have really moved the needle on corporate influence. The second is that we can just move along the spectrum in an effort to curry favor. People won't trust anyone with malleable values, if you won't stand by what you are claiming to believe in your heart of hearts then you won't stand by me is what anyone would think.

I also don't get the desire to evade giving the voters an actual choice instead of being as indistinguishable from the opposition as possible. Sure, sometimes folks will take the other choice and you take your lumps but that allows you the license to do what you say you want to do when the pendulum swings the other way.

The elusive independents seem so elusive because there is a school of thought that believes there is some magic formula of positions that will lock them in forever but it would seem that the possibility that there are people who when they feel things are going in the wrong direction that they simply switch horses and if that one doesn't ride the way they like then they'll switch back.

These people have been "throwing the bums out" for about six years and it didn't start and it won't end because of some perfect left/right blend hasn't been reached but because they feel their interests are not being served, their money wasted, and the future less than encouraging. I suspect no matter how conservative, liberal, moderate, or centrist any party or politician is there will be a revolving door effect until people feel their needs and desires are being properly dealt with and they feel a restoration of a basic sense of security.

Talking left and right is a bunch of avoidance. The questions should be what are we going to do to make the people's lot in life better, how do we make sure they know we have done their business, and how do we gain and maintain the trust of those we serve?

Less focus on the game, more on the work, and the resolve and integrity to get 'er done is the ticket not tactics and triangulation.

Also, the old saying that the proof is in the pudding is always in effect. Show them the money aka the results, we claim to believe in governance and action but from the ground level its the same story of taking care of the wealthy and crapping on working people and our bar is higher because we supposedly claim to be on the side of the people.

The lesser of two evils pitch only holds partisans, if we want success then we have to be at least the acceptable if not the decent or the good.

***reposted from thread reply***

[FLyellowdog]

1. How do we really change the two party system?

It's been in existence for such a long time...we need answers now, not in two hundred more years.

I'm beginning to think the whole Congress should be eliminated and we start all over with the common folk. Our political system is broken and I have no idea how to fix it. Guess I'll just let the next generation handle it. I'm too tired.

[Mojambo]

2. Can't change it without a constitutional re-write. n/t

[TheKentuckian]

3. That's a different question but a legit one but

what I'm talking about is the need to realize what dynamic we are working with. People's vote does not come with a fine tuning switch, there is same and there is change.

[dgibby]

4. Independents are what they are:

independent. We vote principles, issues, not party line. You can make all the promises you want, but if you don't keep those promises, there is no reason to believe we will continue to support you.

If you deliberately lie to me, cheat on me, steal from me, or abuse me, I will NEVER give you the chance to do it again. Once my trust is broken, it's broken, just like Humpty Dumpty, it can't be put back together again.

As an Independent, I vote Dem about 99.99% of the time, but no Party should take my vote for granted, just as no party should take their own members' votes for granted.

As for what's happening with the Dems now, I will continue to support progressive Dem. candidates, but I will not support the DLC. My contributions will go directly to the candidates that I feel best represent me, not to the Party.

[frylock]

5. what you said

:applause: