Joe Klein: liberals' message is that we hate America

[Enrique]

Joe Klein's thoughts on liberals aren't very useful, imo.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12251928/#Time

That is right up until the very last moment when, after someone brought up the question of the whether the Democrats will be able to present an effective alternative to Bush in the next election, Joe Klein shouted out, “Well they won’t if their message is that they hate America—which is what has been the message of the liberal wing of the party for the past twenty years.”

[girl_interrupted]

1. Screw Joe Klein

[SpiralHawk]

2. Horseshit

Complete and utter horseshit.

[librechik]

3. Jokeline is a mental case

why he still has a job is a total mystery. Well, not total, since the "liberal media" is all owned by Republicans.

[Hello_Kitty]

4. My God what a patronizing jerk. eom

[SpartanDem]

5. Why'd you leave out his response up the page

In his recent account of a breakfast book party at the home of Tina Brown and Harry Evans, Eric Alterman misquoted me slightly but significantly. What I actually said was "the hate America tendency of the left wing" had made it harder for Democrats to challenge Republicans on foreign policy. Alterman had me castigating the "liberal wing" of the party, which I was careful not to do. There is a crucial difference between liberals and leftists, especially on foreign policy--even though Republicans (and leftist-wingers) have successfully conflated the two over the past few decades. The default position of leftists like, say, Michael Moore and many writers at The Nation, is that America is essentially a malignant, imperialistic force in the world and the use of American military power is almost always wrong. Liberals have a more benign, and correct, view of America's role in the world and tend to favor the use of military force if it is exercised judiciously, as a last resort, and in a multilateral context--with U.N. approval or through NATO. The first Gulf War, the overthrow of the Taliban and the Kosovo intervention met these criteria; Bush's Iraq invasion clearly did not. That was the point I was trying to make at breakfast.

[Enrique]

8. he said Bush in the flight suit looked better than the democrats debating

We're supposed to look to Joe Klein for ideas about the democrats?

http://mediamatters.org/research/200604270005

SCHIEFFER: As far as I'm concerned, that was one of the great pictures of all time. And if you're a political consultant, you can just see campaign commercial written all over the pictures of George Bush.

KLEIN: Well, that was probably the coolest presidential image since Bill Pullman played the jet fighter pilot in the movie Independence Day. That was the first thing that came to mind for me. And it just shows you how high a mountain these Democrats are going to have to climb. You compare that image, which everybody across the world saw, with this debate last night where you have nine people on a stage and it doesn't air until 11:30 at night, up against Saturday Night Live, and you see what a major, major struggle the Democrats are going to have to try and beat a popular incumbent president.

[Bolo Boffin]

9. This is also from 2006.

I don't understand why we needed to see this today - what's Klein done this time? :D

[Enrique]

11. he called the left idiots

again.

[Bolo Boffin]

12. Yes, thanks.

Just found the link at Twitter. What. A Hoser.

[Cha]

13. Thanks for the full disclosure, Spartan, that wouldn't work

in so well with the whine of the OP.

[Atticus]

16. So, in your opinion, adding that "response" helps?

If I like Mike Moore or the Nation I'm a radical "leftist"?

[sabrina 1]

21. Michael Moore should sue him for that statement.

That is libel. To essentially accuse someone of hating their own country, with zero facts to back it up. Typical of Joe Klein. If he loved his country half as much as MM he'd be doing something about it other than sitting around making a fool of himself.

There is so much proof that the opposite of what he says about MM is true. He's no better than the rightwingnuts who spout the same garbage about people who are actually effective in awakening the American people to what is happening to their country so that maybe they can do something about it.

Not to mention that he makes a clown of himself as he appears not to know how much money has been spent to smear Michael Moore by such America-loving entities as the Private Insurance Industry. And fool that he is he repeats their paid for propaganda, a fact confirmed by someone who would know, Wendall Potter, who actually was there and even participated in it.

I don't know why anyone bothers to read anything this guy has to say ... he's not even a good writer.

[Bitwit1234]

6. Those that hate America

are republicans and it can be proved. Look at the most recent action Jim DeMint and the holding of the TSA nomination. Look at the guy who held up the VA appropriations bill for spite. Look how they put holds on Obama's nomination of judges. They have almost 100 held up.

I think they republicans are trying to pretend they are the only ones who are patriotic etc etc. The thing is they know how to shoot the crap better than the democrats. They can make up a lie at the drop of the hat. They are desperate because they are so far behind in everything they are messing their shorts.

[girl_interrupted]

7. Agree, but do you see Joe Klein talking about that?

Nope!

[Vinnie From Indy]

10. Joe Klein is a scumbag's scumbag

My dog has better insight and commentary on the world.

[beachmom]

14. If it was only Klein criticizing certain elements of the left wing blogosphere,

maybe your attack would be valid. But the fact is he is late to the party. Many of us have been flabbergasted by the behavior of some who would rather ally with corrupt right wingers than Obama. Sick stuff.

[depakid]

17. Policies over party and.orpersonality

As Churchill famously noted: "If Hitler invaded hell I would make at least a favorable reference to the devil in the House of Commons."

One of the more interesting contradictions in all of this is that some of the more voracious detractors of members of the blogosphere were (and are) also the most ridged defenders of Obama (and the Senate's) "reaching across the aisle" to be "bipartisan" in order to further Republican policy goals- and water down- or abandon their own previously stated goals or party platform.

[SoxFan]

19. HERETIC!!!

Seriously, you are correct. I saw someone on another board state that he would rather have the noxious Judd Gregg in the Senate than Mary Landrieu. That's pure insanity. On her worst day, Landrieu is still as progressive a Democrat as we can possibly get out of Louisiana, and on his best, Gregg is still a heartless mediocrity. But Landrieu said something that rankled the left blogosphere CW, and thus, she must be trotted off to the dungeons.

[TheKentuckian]

20. While I'd happily trade my super horrid Senators for Ms Mary anyday

I'm not so deluded to miss that she does really suck. You gotta take the lesser of two evils but don't act shock that folks notice evil still showed up.

If you got whisked away to the Twilight Zone and had to pick between Hitler and Manson for a roommate, you might easily and comparatively gleefully go with ole Chuck but still be nervous as a longtailed cat in a room full of rocking chairs once you get to the new crib.

Its not that Landrieu doesn't deserve the dungeon treatment, its that if you put her in some altogether worse psychopath jumps out with a butcher knife and looking for young children.

You also have to understand that many liberals have no idea what jacked up Reich Wing oriented places a lot of states are. Hell, I can't imagine how fucked up Louisiana seems to be sometimes and we've been trying to ditch Mitch for as long as I can remember and we elected Fletcher who made W look like Churchill he was so crooked and stupid.

She pulled a snake in the grassley on the public option and lied her dumbass off. You can't be surprised or upset that she got backlash. She's not a friend, she's an enemy that is kept closer. It'll take a hell of a psyche-ops campaign to convince many mainstream Democrats, much less liberals that the corporate Democrat caucus is really on our side.

I'd have to say that the most progressive Democrat that can be fished out of the Bayou might not be significantly better than heartless mediocrity. If there was a Centrist Corporate Toadie party they'd both be in that motherfucker, for sure.

The main difference between a "moderate" Republican and a conservative Democrat USED to be procedural votes and maybe a plank out of the platform that they think sells in their area. Without the party discipline the centrist/bluedog types are just Republicans that A) want/need something personally or electorally B) want to be gremlins in the works to make sure corporate interests are put first because they are bought and paid for C) Face time baby!!!

[deutsey]

15. Hey, Joe, who did you blow?

...Better suck a little harder or the shekels won't flow...

-Frank Zappa, Packard Goose

[freddie mertz]

23. Gawd love you, Frank Zappa! nt.

[jwirr]

18. They think that because we dare to recognize both her strengths and

weaknesses. My oldest daughter is both beautiful and severely disabled. She is the love of my life. Klein is an idiot. We love our country unconditionally - warts and all. We simply try to fix the warts and acknowledge the problems so we can face them.

[freddie mertz]

22. I love America, but I do not like that Joe Klein fella at all.

He sucks, in fact.