Chavez says Obama has same stench as Bush

[Bacchus39]

http://lta.reuters.com/article/domesticNews/idLTASIE50G0Q320090117

CARACAS (Reuters) - El presidente de Venezuela, Hugo Chávez, dijo el sábado que cree que el mandatario electo de Estados Unidos, Barack Obama, es la "misma miasma" que su predecesor y dijo que pudiera ser asesinado si desobedece al "imperio estadounidense".

mi⋅as⋅ma   /maɪˈæzmə, mi-/ Show Spelled Pronunciation Show IPA Pronunciation

–noun, plural -mas, -ma⋅ta  /-mətə/ Show Spelled Pronunciation <-muh-tuh> Show IPA Pronunciation . 1. noxious exhalations from putrescent organic matter; poisonous effluvia or germs polluting the atmosphere.
2. a dangerous, foreboding, or deathlike influence or atmosphere.


Chávez, un feroz crítico del Gobierno del presidente George W. Bush, pese al multimillonario intercambio comercial entre Caracas y Washington, dijo que Obama, que asume el poder el 20 de enero, será un nuevo "fiasco" para Estados Unidos y el mundo.


Chavez says Obama will be a fiasco for the world and the US.

[struggle4progress]

1. See the following post:

Searching the English language page of El Universal is producing some odd results
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=8099802&mesg_id=8102073

[Bacchus39]

2. ummm... Obama has, rightly, chided Chavez but the story about expecting improved relations

with Ven have been in the news since the election. what are you reaching for? Hugo is an idiot, deal with it.

[struggle4progress]

3. Analysis should be based on facts, not the other way around

Note first three news stories dated 16 Jan:

1: Lula & Chavez reportedly call for Obama to look at Latin America with respect and without prejudice
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=8099802&mesg_id=8100013
2: The US embassy in Venezuela says it expects a thaw in US-Venezuela relations
3: El Universal reports Reuters is reporting that Obama now accuses Chavez of supporting terrorists
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=8099802&mesg_id=8102073

Let us next note several news stories dated the following day, 17 Jan:
4: Chavez reacts to story 3 (various versions)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=3695851&mesg_id=3695851
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x8099802

Stories 1 & 2 appear to be consistent with expected behavior during a change of US administration. On the other hand, story 3 exists in a vacuum: nobody else is reporting it, and it seems inconsistent with story 2; moreover, Obama would gain no obvious advantage by making such undiplomatic claims only a few days before taking office. Doubt regarding the veracity of 3 is further supported by text in one of the stories discussing 4:

"He's said I'm an obstacle for progress in Latin America," Chavez said ... It was unclear what comments Chavez could be referring to
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=3696189&mesg_id=3696189

But, of course, it is entirely clear (from the above) what Chavez refers to in 4 (although this may not be known to the author of the text I just cited): Chavez refers to the El Universal story 3

Let us now examine Chavez's reaction 4: it is claimed that Chavez is saying something like Obama stinks just like Bush, although it is quite plausible that Chavez is hinting that the story 3 smells like the handiwork of Bush. In fact, the second reading is supported by Chavez's further comments, warning Obama that imperialists can be brutal when they want their own way:

"Oigan esto que voy a decir, si Obama, el presidente de los Estados Unidos, no obedeciera el mandato del imperio, a Obama lo matan, como mataron a Kennedy, como mataron a Martin Luther King, como mataron al mismísimo Abraham Lincoln", dijo Chávez
http://lta.reuters.com/article/domesticNews/idLTASIE50G0Q320090117?sp=true
http://www.reuters.com/article/politicsNews/idUSTRE50G2F420090118

Whether one actually wants to agree with the view that imperialists can be brutal when they want their own way, is a separate question, and addressing it here would only detract from analysis

To recapitulate, everyone was making let's make nice noises, until El Universal in Venezuela, apparently alone among the world's media, reported an alleged Reuters story, according to which Obama calls Chavez a terrorist supporter. At this point, Chavez reacted off-the-cuff, perhaps saying something rather like I can smell Bush in this Obama statement while warning Obama that imperialists can be dangerous

The question that remains is the provenance of the story 3, which by now looks suspicious. Although Obama did criticize Chavez in the first part of 2008, it is entirely inconceivable that he has taken time, in recent days -- when he engaged in moves from Chicago to DC hotel to Blair House while preparing to occupy the White House, occupied by preinaugural and inaugural preparations, and readying himself for the Oval office on the 20th -- to take time to launch an undiplomatic and inflammatory broadside against Chavez, especially since the story 2 indicates his transition team has already prepped the diplomatic corp to improve US-Venezuelan relations. Since the story 3 has essentially no credibility as recent news, the question arises: how did it end up in El Universal on 16 Jan? The story came from somewhere, perhaps the fertile imagination of El Universal's editors, but a fifth recent news story suggests another source:

5: Did Venezuela's Opposition Meet with US Officials in Puerto Rico?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=405&topic_id=10970&mesg_id=10970

Suspicions that the Bush administration, in its last days, continues to develop plans to interfere in Venezuela, lead naturally to the suspicion that the story 3 was carefully crafted and planted in El Universal as a form of psychological warfare against the Venezuelan government. Whether one actually accepts such suspicions as having some grain of truth, again, is a separate question, and addressing it here would again only detract from analysis. However, it is quite plausible that Chavez might take such a view -- and that could explain the misma miasma language: it is the old familiar stink

[Bacchus39]

4. Chavez called the FARC the "people's army".

so how is Hugo doing his part to improve relations? and yet, here you are still defending this fool and his idiocy.

[struggle4progress]

5. If that's the best you can provide in the way of substantive response, then

I suppose I must be content with it -- but the fact that (1) you change the subject while (2) mischaracterizing what I said, is in a way wquite informative

[Bacchus39]

6. I am changing the subject? please, explain what you mean.

Chavez associations with FARC are nothing new and Obama has called him out on that. The FARC is a terrorist organization. are you starting to see where this is going yet?????? Its not changing the subject at all. you imply that a story in the Universal is false. its nothing new.

but this has nothing to do at all with the fact that fatso idiot Chavez said Obama is the same pestilence as Bush. what an insult and you are defending Hugo!!!!!!

[struggle4progress]

7. I am interested, for the moment, in what Obama & Chavez actually said

As WaPo has just picked up the story, it seems reasonable to assume the El Universal's story was based on the Univision interview, but of course that information was not available in the El Universal story I earlier cited, which attributed the interview story to Reuters -- though (as I have noted above) Reuters subsequently published a story indicating that nobody knew what gave Chavez the idea that Obama had attacked him. That WaPo has picked up the story, suggests that the El Universal story was perhaps correct in broad outline -- the situation with respect to Reuters being unable to determine what Chavez was talking about, when El Universal's source was allegedly an earlier Reuters story, remains curious, but that appears to be a minor point

Unfortunately, no transcript of the Univision interview is currently available: according to WaPo, the Univision interview was aired with Spanish translation: that might mean voice-over or closed-captions; if its voice-over, all English versions of Obama's remarks have been translated twice, from English to Spanish back to English, which might mangle meanings. So at this point, I do not know exactly what Obama said. The video does not seem yet to be available at the Univision website

Similarly, I do not know exactly what Chavez said: one Spanish article posted here at DU, and linked in this thread, pulls exactly the same stunt as the English coverage, namely, to quote "misma miasma" just as the translation "stench" was quoted, namely, without the full context. Therefore, I'll postpone any outrage for now

Obama and Chávez Start Sparring Early
By Juan Forero
Washington Post Foreign Service
Monday, January 19, 2009; Page A15
BOGOTA, Colombia, Jan. 18 -- In an interview shown in the past week on the Spanish-language network Univision, U.S. President-elect Barack Obama said that Venezuela's firebrand president, Hugo Chávez, has hindered progress in Latin America, and he expressed concern that Chávez's leftist government has assisted Colombia's biggest guerrilla movement, a group the United States considers a terrorist organization ... The network did not release a transcript of the interview, in which Obama's answers are simultaneously translated into Spanish ... http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/01/18/AR2009011802325.html

[Judi Lynn]

8. Speaking of Univision, don't forget that Venezuelan coup plotter, Gustavo Cisneros owns 19%

of that company, and was appointed to the Board of Directors. He's a good friend, and fishing buddy of _{George H. W. Bush} and went immediately with him to the resort in the Dominican Republic owned by Cuban "exile" sugar magnates, Alfi and Pepe Fanjul the very moment the coup against Hugo Chavez was turned back by the Venezuelan people.

~snip~
Cisneros-owned Venezuelan TV network Venevision controlled coverage of the US-backed 2002 coup on the populist Chavez. Some claim Cisneros was one of the principal backers of the coup- his family being longtime representatives of US interests. It certainly doesn't help Cisneros' case that he ordered a ban on footage of the resulting counter-coup consisting of tens of thousands of the citizenry seeking to reinstate Chavez. Cisneros' network instead aired classic cartoons and golden age movies. The US State Department's chief Latin America handler (and one-time Ambassador to Venezuela) Otto J. Reich later confirmed that during the 2 day coup he had spoken with Cisneros "two or three times".

http://www.nndb.com/people/766/000135361/

~~~~~~~~~~
~snip~
But, other members of the Bush family also have important ties to Venezuela. After the failed coup d'etat against Chavez, television magnate and Bush Sr. friend Gustavo Cisneros was implicated as one of the principal proponents of the coup.

Cisneros publicly denied his role in the coup, but the magazine Newsweek noted that Pedro Carmona "was seen leaving Cisneros' office" before going to the Government Palace to swear in as provisional president.

According to Newsweek, Venezuelan legislator Pedro Pablo Alcantara said that the brief Carmona dictatorship was organized in Cisneros' offices, and that Cisneros was the "supreme commander" of the operation.

* Newsweek also said that Otto Reich had spoken with Cisneros "two or three times" during the events of the coup.

One of the calls was made by Cisneros to warn Reich on April 13 that a crowd of angry Chavez supporters had surrounded the building housing his TV station, Venevision.

According to Venezuelan sources, on April 11, 2002, when a confrontation took place between Chavez supporters and opponents resulting in 25 deaths, most of them Chavez supporters, Pedro Carmona wasn't in the streets. Rather, he was comfortably installed in Venevision's bunker, together with Episcopal Conference President Baltazar Porras, journalistic businessman Rafael Poleo, and other figures.

Therefore, it's not strange that Cisneros has been identified as Bush Jr.'s prospect to confront Hugo Chavez in future presidential elections, which could take place earlier than scheduled if the opposition wins the US-supported presidential recall referendum.

http://74.125.47.132/search?q=cache:i84eEMnN_-YJ:www.trinicenter.com/articles/020704.html+Gustavo+Cisneros+coup+Hugo+Chavez&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=7&gl=us

[bitchkitty]

9. Except that he didn't say that,

as you know by now and probably knew when you posted the article.

All your topics get so thoroughly debunked, I would think you'd be embarrassed.

[No Elephants]

10. Very nice work. Thanks.

[Bacchus39]

11. looks like your analysis is incorrect and Obama did have time for an interview

its not like he is moving the furniture himself. but I wouldn't characterize Obama's remarks as undiplomatic and inflammatory, "accurate" would be a much better description.