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An open letter to Cindy Sheehan, from the administrator of Democratic Underground

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Skinner ADMIN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 09:15 AM
Original message
An open letter to Cindy Sheehan, from the administrator of Democratic Underground
Dear Cindy:

My name is David Allen, and I am the lead administrator of Democratic Underground. Like the vast majority of people here on DU, I was surprised and dismayed to learn of your resignation as the public face of the anti-war movement. Even more upsetting to me is the fact that apparently a post here on my website was one of the reasons for your decision.

I am going to try to keep this note relatively brief. I cannot match the eloquence of your public statement, or the eloquence of the many people on Democratic Underground and elsewhere who have asked you to reconsider. My intent is merely to add my voice to the huge chorus of people who believe you are a vital voice in the anti-war movement. As the administrator of Democratic Underground I would like the opportunity to provide a little bit of context with regard the offending post referenced in your resignation letter. Having read your statement, I know that the post here on DU was not the only reason you made the decision you did, but it seems that that post may have been the proverbial straw that broke the camel's back.

The most important thing I think you should know is this: The vast majority of DU members support you and your efforts to bring an end to this terrible war. That has been true for as long as you have been fighting to end it -- as you know from the many DUers who stood with you at Camp Casey and elsewhere. It remains true today.

I understand how frustrating it is to give your heart and soul to something, and then get personally insulted for it. It is even worse when those insults come from people who are supposed to be our friends and allies. I am not going to provide an excuse or justification for that ugly post -- the person who posted it does not in any way speak for me or most of people on this website. But I am also not going to lie to you and tell you that it was posted by a troll. As far as I can tell, the person who posted it is a legitimate member of this site. (As an aside, the specific language used was not acceptable under the rules of this website, and the post in question was deleted by the moderators for that reason.)

Democratic Underground is not like all those other blogs, where one person (or a small group of people) regularly sets the tone by articulating the "official" point of view. I sometimes share my opinions, but I only do so occasionally, and I don't think of myself as a blogger or pundit. I think of myself as more of a "referee" between different factions. As a discussion forum, we see our mission as different from that of a traditional blog. Rather than requiring that DUers champion a particular viewpoint, I believe our members are best served by permitting a (relatively) wide range of opinion. That includes many viewpoints that I disagree with, and the majority of our members disagree with.

When you made it clear that you were going to challenge Democrats as aggressively as you challenge Republicans, you knew that many Democrats would not support your efforts. Likewise, it was inevitable that some here on DU would not support such efforts. You are a public figure, and as such the rules of this website permit our members to criticize you, just as our rules permit members to criticize Nancy Pelosi or Harry Reid. If anything, such criticism shows that you are making a difference. You are being criticized because what you do matters. If your goal is to change the direction of this country, then there are worse things than being criticized by a small number of anonymous keyboard commandos on the Intertubes. Far worse that you be ignored.

If you simply cannot go on any longer, and you feel you must resign, then you have my understanding and my gratitude for everything you have done to fight against this terrible war. You have already done way more than anyone to help bring an end to the war in Iraq. You have earned your place in history, and you have earned the right to step aside if you feel you must.

But if you feel you still have some fight left in you, if you feel that you can still keep going, then I hope that you will do so. The anti-war movement, the country, and the world need people like you. Please do not let the criticisms of a few people get you down.

With heartfelt thanks,

David Allen
Democratic Underground
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greenbriar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 09:18 AM
Response to Original message
1. well said
thank you
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Decruiter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-30-07 02:01 AM
Response to Reply #1
359. Cindy is going to be okay. I know it. Thanks, David for your message to
her on behalf of DemocraticUnderground. You said it the best for all of us.

To Cindy,

Go home, take time, find peace and solace and come back when you are ready.

There are lots of us Cindy, that have been right where you are.

We love you.

Peace.

I'm really impressed with the community here and I hope, Cindy, you can take some time to read how much you are loved, you can see the difference you've made and that you will know that Casey did not die in vain.


We love you. D & S
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spotbird Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 09:18 AM
Response to Original message
2. Even in the past two weeks
the frustration level directed toward Democrats by Democrats has increased dramatically. Cindy reached a point of realization earlier than most of us, but unless things change there will be more like her than Yellow Dogs in the next cycle.
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tavalon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 09:21 AM
Response to Reply #2
10. So true
She isn't the only one feeling punked by the Dems. And it hurts more when they feed us shit and tell us it's fertilizer than when the Orwellians do that. We expect it from the other side.
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spotbird Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 09:32 AM
Response to Reply #10
29. From the Democrats it is a betrayal
from the Republicans it is business as usual.

Funny you should mention Orwellian, some of the post vote spin from the Democrats could have been written by those very same Republican spinmisters. What the Democrats failed to realize is that the reason we supported them is that we knew the fabrications were lies. We still know it, regardless of the source.

I hope this works, thanks for trying Skinner.
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bjobotts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 03:55 PM
Response to Reply #29
227. The War profiteers own the republican party and many of the Dems
Cindy has recognized this. Our only defense to save our democracy is "Campaign Finance Reform" so elected officials don't have to depend on corporate money to be elected. The only lobbyists in Congress should be people and grass roots organizations and not big business. Increase taxes to cover campaigns and cut out profits to corporate media forcing free air time for debates and campaigns. If you truly want to stop the war machines that is EXACTLY how you do it. Cindy made it known that our great grandchildren will be dealing with the same war tragedies we deal with now and these wars will continue on until we get rid of corporate owned officials. The media is now corporate owned but they still can be stopped. Cindy found that the peace, anti-war movement is actually a process of stopping the war profiteers and they are not bound by party affiliation though the republicans are almost entirely owned by these same corporations. That is what Cindy found, a corporate war machine in bed with politicians and controlling the Justice department and the corporate media and the only way to stop it is by governmental intervention supported by an enraged public who will stand up against them. To the war profiteers, peace supporters are terrorists because they are trying to stop their war. This is the only way to I know of to carry the ball Cindy has been bouncing for us...Campaign finance reform, get corporate money out of politics, then our officials will represent us and act accordingly when we say withdraw the troops and end the needless killing of our troops. Support our troops by protecting them not funding their destruction, do what Cindy is asking us to be responsible for, and for what she and her son and her family have sacrificed everything to accomplished.
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Pooka Fey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 04:54 PM
Response to Reply #227
246. Exactly so. This is an excellent post. Welcome to DU.
:hi:
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WiseButAngrySara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-30-07 11:28 AM
Response to Reply #227
369. I have to reiterate, EXCELLENT Post, bjobotts !
And welcome to DU And, keep posting!

:hi: and :kick:
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freefall Donating Member (617 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 11:08 AM
Response to Reply #10
105. You hit the nail on the head, tavalon. It hurts way more when it is
"your own side" sucker punching you. I am spending much in the way of time and energy doing volunteer work for my local Democratic party. Deciding to work for the Democrats wasn't easy as I am familiar with the shenanigans of the corporatists such as Clinton, Emmanuel, Pelosi, and Hoyer who often speak with forked tongues in order to pacify the progressives and keep their corporate controllers happy at the same time. I decided last year that I had no choice other than to work for the Dems as our two-party system doesn't allow for much wiggle room and also I hoped the tide was turning enough that it would carry the Democratic corporatists along with it. Now I feel that I misjudged the situation. I am still laboring away here in the trenches, spending hours in town halls copying out voter histories (they won't be automated 'til next year), marching in local parades, attending four or more meetings a month, teaching myself web skills in order to maintain party web pages, and running up my gas bills doing all the above, but I am not sure how much longer I will be able to keep on. Events such as those in Congress last week concerning the Iraqi Occupation and trade issues sap my energy and leave me unwilling to waste my time and skills on a party which is essentially Republican Lite and knifing me in the back. I am beginning to feel that my efforts are worse than wasted, they are actually helping maintain the status quo of militaristic greed. How much longer I can last as an activist Democrat is a question I ask myself every day.

freefall

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spotbird Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 11:41 AM
Response to Reply #105
115. The absolute worst part
is that the Democratic Party doesn't even care that they're losing people like us, we're a nuisance. They know that there are enough people out there who haven't a clue as to what's going on and those people will vote as they always have.
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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 08:41 PM
Response to Reply #115
318. Yep Fox is already calling us and our movement "noise" n/t
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Ninga Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 11:49 AM
Response to Reply #105
122. Thank you David, and Dear Cindy you are a beacon of light. I appreciate all that
you have done.

I appreciate the heartache of the loss of your son, Casey.
I appreciate what it took to stand up for what you believe
I appreciate that you said on many occasions that you stepped out of your comfort zone to take this cause on.
i appreciate that you kept on, showing resolve and fight.

I regret I have not had your personal courage
I regret that I let you down, because if I would have added my one voice (one candle) to your cause, it might have grown bigger
I regret that your vision was lost in the noise of criticism.
I regret that your voice was dimished by criticism.


I regret that the American people, as a whole, don't have the will, the muster, the courage, the desire, the vision, or the committment to follow you into the streets.
Because all other methods......have failed.

Bless you dear Cindy.
Peace and Love to you.
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calimary Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 01:13 PM
Response to Reply #10
162. No kidding! I STILL stand with Cindy. And I'm copying this thread in here, too,
so that people can find it if they want suggestions for ways to help her and continue supporting her - literally AND figuratively:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Thank you, Skinner, for a wonderful post. You think your eloquence is lacking? I think not.
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Bjornsdotter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-30-07 02:03 PM
Response to Reply #10
373. Ditto



Thank-you Cindy.

Cheers
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corkhead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 09:18 AM
Response to Original message
3. I hope it works Skinner
Edited on Tue May-29-07 09:24 AM by corkhead
I has been a rough couple of weeks and I am saddened to see the elevated amount of infighting. What a waste of energy eating our own when we need all of our available energy to be united in our fight against a very formidable enemy of our democracy.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 09:19 AM
Response to Original message
4. Thankyou for writing this.
You captured what many of us feel.
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tavalon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 09:19 AM
Response to Original message
5. Thank you David
Well spoken.
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unhappycamper Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 09:19 AM
Response to Original message
6. I'll second that, Boss.
Edited on Tue May-29-07 09:22 AM by unhappycamper
I've met Cindy a few times, and she has always been gracious and kind.

Cindy:

Take the time you need to heal. It may take months or years; listen to your body. It knows what you need.

Peace,
uhc
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Midlodemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 09:20 AM
Response to Original message
7. Nice work, Skinner.
Cindy has always had and will always have my support.
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LostinVA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 09:54 AM
Response to Reply #7
57. Mine too
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Divine Discontent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-30-07 12:24 AM
Response to Reply #7
346. right on midlo! here's some images I made to show her we love her!
the comments of "see ya Toots!" and worse, by the asinine few, make me SICK. We LOVE you Cindy, I had planned a Cindy Sheehan tribute video more than a week ago, but did my anti-televangelist/bush/antiwar video first the night before Falwell died! http://youtube.com/password but I will try and find time to do my Cindy video for all her work, I find it ironic that I thought of doing one for her, and she's making big news now herself (and I'm glad she's still with us!).

I pray she'll come back and make us stronger, but I understand her angst at our leaders who caved in to Mr 28% and respect her nonetheless, for I won't turn on a friend who's given so much energy to the antiwar fight.



www.cafepress.com/warisprofitable <<-- check it out, top '08 stuff
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Le Taz Hot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 09:20 AM
Response to Original message
8. K & R
Thank you, Skinner.
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renie408 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 09:21 AM
Response to Original message
9. This was well done. Kudos, Skinner. n/t
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Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 09:22 AM
Response to Original message
11. Are You Going To Snail This To Her As Well?
Might be a good idea.
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Nickster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 09:25 AM
Original message
Agreed.
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hlthe2b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 09:29 AM
Response to Reply #11
21. Maybe Fax?
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Gman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 09:22 AM
Response to Original message
12. Well said, Skinner
I understand how Cindy can be so tired. I especially understand how those nipping at you eventually take their toll, although I can't imagine to the degree Cindy has endured.

What I hope Cindy will eventually realize is that if she were never noticed, she would never have made a difference. And make no mistake, Cindy was/is the galvanizing force that brought the country together against this war.
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tavalon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 06:43 PM
Response to Reply #12
274. Yep
Even though she hasn't stopped the war yet, when it is stopped, she will have been a pivotal part of that, even if she never does a single other thing. We owe her such a debt.
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lildreamer316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 09:22 AM
Response to Original message
13. This, I will add my thanks to.
I've stayed out of this fray so far, but I am glad, Skinner, that you did this. It hurts me to think that Cindy would be left with that impression of DU.

Thank you, Cindy. Rest awhile, join us again when you can.
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Kali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 09:23 AM
Response to Original message
14. Thanks for writing this.
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Jersey Devil Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 09:23 AM
Response to Original message
15. She has earned our respect and now we must respect her right to rest
God knows, she subjected herself to nightmares beyond which most of us could possibly imagine and kept on fighting until she just had no more to give.

I am hoping that in time she will heal and contribute again to the peace movement, though hopefully in a way that is not so taxing on her physically and emotionally.
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SharonAnn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 09:30 PM
Response to Reply #15
329. And, since we care so much, it is our turn to lead the movement(s).
We should not lay all our hopes and burdens on the one person who helped us be heard. It is our responsibility to do what needs to be done. It's easy to sit at a keyboard and "expect" her to somehow fight for everything we want her to fight for. Sorry, we're supposed to be grownups and we shouldn't lay additional burdens on her.

She's right, this movement has to grow larger and rise up from the great mass of people. It is not her job to do what we want her to do. It is our job to do it.

Cindy, thank you. You helped us see what can be done by one person with a strong committment to what is right and just.

Now it's our turn.
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Pale Blue Dot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 09:24 AM
Response to Original message
16. Thank you Skinner. It takes courage to post this.
And thank you Cindy. No matter what you decide, know that your effort was appreciated.
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Richard Steele Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 09:25 AM
Response to Original message
17. Hear, hear! recommended.
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 09:25 AM
Response to Original message
18. Thank you Skinner!
:hug:
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catmandu57 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 09:26 AM
Response to Original message
19. What Skinner said
nt
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hlthe2b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 09:28 AM
Response to Original message
20. Thank you Skinner....
Your words are (IMO) very representative of the true DU.
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William769 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 09:30 AM
Response to Original message
22. Very nice.
I do hope that somehow this reaches Mrs. Sheehan.
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ohtransplant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 09:30 AM
Response to Original message
23. Thanks for putting what many felt into words.
IMHO Cindy has done much to foster the discussion and move the debate in the right direction. My thanks for that and all the sacrifice involved.

I hope that she takes some time to rest and contemplate her journey. I also hope that once she does, she'll be recharged and ready to re-join the fray. Her voice is needed and appreciated.

Sometimes we forget the civility in our discourse. I wish we didn't but we do.

All the best.

OHT
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 09:30 AM
Response to Original message
24. A wodnerful letter. nt
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welshTerrier2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 09:30 AM
Response to Original message
25. ya done good, Skinner.
thank you ...
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Breeze54 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 09:30 AM
Response to Original message
26. Two thumbs up!
:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

:kick: & Recommended!
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ananda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 09:31 AM
Response to Original message
27. tears
I'm crying now.

I love Cindy so much.. and always will!
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LeftHander Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 09:32 AM
Response to Original message
28. Thanks David...and thank you Cindy. nt
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Catherine Vincent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 09:32 AM
Response to Original message
30. Very good post!
Thank you Cindy Sheehan!
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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 09:33 AM
Response to Original message
31. Bravo! She personifies "the good fight".
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Lobster Martini Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 09:34 AM
Response to Original message
32. Cheers, Skinner -- may I make a suggestion?
E-mail the open letter to Cindy Sheehan at campcaseymom@yahoo.com .

I wrote yesterday that Cindy Sheehan deserved an apology and you have done so quite nicely, but it's pointless if she doesn't see it, and after being called...well, you know...I doubt she's reading the DU mesage boards.

Regards,

LM
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 02:51 PM
Response to Reply #32
198. Are you sure that's her email address?
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az chela Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 04:31 PM
Response to Reply #198
240. I just emailed it to her
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Liberal In Texas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 09:34 AM
Response to Original message
33. Well done. I'm glad you said something, and said it so well. Also...
Edited on Tue May-29-07 09:37 AM by LibInTexas
...to anyone who hasn't read Will Pitt's post yet, do so.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
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Lex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 09:35 AM
Response to Original message
34. One cannot make a difference without being criticized.
No one.

There's a quote I always keep in mind:

Criticism is something we can avoid easily by saying nothing, doing nothing, and being nothing.


I'm sure it does get old after a while, having to endure criticism. Especially from those you would normally consider your friends.



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Phredicles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 09:35 AM
Response to Original message
35. Thanks, Skinner, for speaking for a lot us us DUers who
admire Ms. Sheehan and are grateful for our courage.
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nebenaube Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 09:35 AM
Response to Original message
36. thank you Skinner and btw...
Cindy, I SUPPORT YOUR EFFORTS!!!!!!
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jmrobins00 Donating Member (15 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 09:35 AM
Response to Original message
37. K&R
Thank you.
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dave_p Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 09:36 AM
Response to Original message
38. It's hard to imagine the emotional toll
Edited on Tue May-29-07 09:41 AM by dave_p
... that her loss and her round-the-clock activism must have taken. Cindy's entitled to a break, and frankly this may be a good time given the immovability of one party and the hesitation of the other. I hope she and the friends and supporters she's brought together remain close, whatever happens: she shouldn't be left alone with her loss after all she's done to spare others such grief. I doubt that giving up is her thing, but there's only so much we can expect of anyone. I wish her a peaceful rest & hope to see her restored & fighting fit when she decides the time's right. And I'm sure DUers will do their bit to make her extra-special birthday on Jul 10 an even more special one.
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Adelante Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 09:36 AM
Response to Original message
39. The heart of DU
Democratic Underground is not like all those other blogs, where one person (or a small group of people) regularly sets the tone by articulating the "official" point of view. I sometimes share my opinions, but I only do so occasionally, and I don't think of myself as a blogger or pundit. I think of myself as more of a "referee" between different factions. As a discussion forum, we see our mission as different from that of a traditional blog. Rather than requiring that DUers champion a particular viewpoint, I believe our members are best served by permitting a (relatively) wide range of opinion. That includes many viewpoints that I disagree with, and the majority of our members disagree with.


I'm glad you clarified this point for Cindy, that DU is one big, rollicking Town Hall. Perhaps she will know now she has more support here than she previously believed possible.
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Sydnie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 09:36 AM
Response to Original message
40. Thank you Skinner
You said just what needed to be said, and much more eloquently than I could have.

We must hold our side to the same flame that we hold the other side and Cindy was doing just that. If they are not listening to the people that elected them, then we must raise our voices until we drown out all others.

Thank you Cindy.
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DinahMoeHum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 09:37 AM
Response to Original message
41. Thanks, Skinner. As I see it, her work has NOT been in vain.
Her work in August 2005 started the slide of Bush's popularity, and he hasn't recovered from it.

She needs a break. Hell, we ALL need a break once in a while to re-charge.

We'll see her again sometime in the future. Probably sooner than we think.

:thumbsup:
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Puglover Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 09:38 AM
Response to Original message
42. Thanks for this Skinner.
Edited on Tue May-29-07 09:38 AM by Puglover
I'm glad to see this.

Pug
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JNelson6563 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 09:38 AM
Response to Original message
43. With thanks and a few pointers
No man is an island. Everyone needs allies, EVERYONE.

When you should up to wag your finger and issue veiled threats the minute the Dems were sworn in I was dubious.

Cindy, you were never a "Dem" as in all for one and one for all. You were a Dem as long as Dems marched in lockstep behind you.

Sorry friend but no matter the level, be it in the lowly trenches or on the national scene, if you aren't a team player, you are on your own.

I never saw any reason for the Dems to be all that supportive of your cause and I never saw you make the effort to become a part of any team.

I respect what you have done and mourn your loss for you. My 15 year old son will never see an enlistment form, thanks in part to your mission. but, with that said, don't make a big deal out of "withdrawing" from the Dem party as you haven't been a part of that team. Some of us have put heart and soul into it. You were a brief flash in the pan who gave the anti-war movement some much needed visiblitiy but beyond that (aka "the long haul") you have not done much of anything.

I respect what you have done, I just don't see you as "saintly" or "beyond reproach" for how you've done it. Frankly, to see you categorize the odd, off statement calling you "an attention whore" as one of the "milder rebukes" on DU tells me you are not above twisting the truth to enhance your self portrait at a martyr. With one who has years invested in the effort, having thrown family "under the bus" for the "cause" for many years now, your pleas for sympathy fall on deaf ears.

Julie
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theNotoriousP.I.G. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 01:09 PM
Response to Reply #43
158. Uh...
how tacky.
:thumbsdown:

Take it somewhere else. This is a conciliatory thread to Cindy.
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ray of light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 02:10 PM
Response to Reply #43
183. so tacky and so uncalled for. Appreciate the fact that her work has
protected your fifteen year old son.

I have tons of respect for what Cindy has done. Knowing military people who have hoped and prayed and fasted WITH CINDY, I feel much more confident in supporting her. Cindy has been injured by her protests. The media didn't report that. She's been attacked, smeared, and defined by media hacks who know they have to take her down in order to support Bush. Cindy has done more for Peace and for human rights than you have Julie. Having met and known Cindy and the Code Pink ladies as well as other whistleblowers, I find your comment to be the height of hypocrisy.


Why don't you put your whole name out there? It's so easy to criticize one on a keyboard but it's a heck of a lot harder to have the media and the publicists making up facts about you and spreading it far and wide. So go put your life, name, and livelihood out there "Julie" before you smear Cindy any more.

And while your at it. Take a look at your fifteen year old and his friends, and recognise that IF they don't get sent to Iraq, it's because of what Cindy did and because of all the people who JOINED CINDY and supported her.








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JNelson6563 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 02:17 PM
Response to Reply #183
187. Ooooh, the badies are after me!!
Yes, oh so tacky! How dare I say anything?!?!?!? Get a grip.

Cindy did a great thing a couple of summers ago by bringing the fight to Jr's doorstep. Yep, great stuff, I loved every minute of it and even donated to the Crawford House. From one mom to another I applaud her and also mourn her loss.

As a Democratic activist, I have little appreciation for her activities in that regard.

As to my name, gosh Bunky, figure it out. My screen name is "JNelson" and I sign my posts "Julie". Think that might be "Julie Nelson"??? So ambiguous! Unlike the completely upfront "ray of light" screen name that reveals nothing.

Grow up.

Julie
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ray of light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 02:32 PM
Response to Reply #187
189. Hey Julie...
Hey Julie, haven't seen you getting arrested at the White House for trying to end the war. Haven't seen you called a 'floozy, a slut, a left-winged crazy nut" across the media.

Get a grip.

It's YOUR fifteen year old and YOUR KIDS friends that her activism may have saved.

You had at least 50 threads in which to bash Cindy without getting criticism. You chose the timing and you chose the absolutely most INAPPROPRIATE place to give your 'few hints' to someone who has done a hell of a lot more for Peace than you have. Boo hooo so you donated to Crawford house. Did you go to Congress and speak to our representatives to get them to end the war? Did you put a soldier's name in the White House fence and get arrested for it? Did you get beat up sitting in front of the United Nations so that you could hand a letter to the Iraqis representative and get your shoulder pulled out of the socket by the police? Oh and yes Julie--I HAVE DONE those things with Cindy and with others under my real name.

So grow up yourself.


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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 02:53 PM
Response to Reply #189
200. AMEN!!
Thank you.
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Bentcorner Donating Member (385 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-30-07 07:03 AM
Response to Reply #189
364. Did anyone really think she was going to end the war by getting arrested at the White House?
Seriously, does anyone honestly believe that?
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ray of light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-30-07 08:07 AM
Response to Reply #364
365. Does anyone really think the war will end by sitting on your arses at home
Edited on Wed May-30-07 08:41 AM by ray of light
watching the American Idol and eating popcorn?

So to answer your question...Yes. Civil disobediance is one of the major ways we have to voice our displeasure to our government officials. It's as effective as protests, calling our Representatives. Furthermore, by using her name and the brave actions she's done, the media finally started talking about ending the war and the misuse of the term 'patriot'. Before Cindy stepped up to the plate, we couldn't even get 5 seconds on the media.

If we had your philosophy women would still not be allowed to vote, blacks would never have made the gains they made at Civil Rights during the 60's and 70's (that the Republican Party is still trying to stifle) and the Boston Tea Party would never have happened (and thus the American Revolution would never have happened.)

So to answer your question: Hell YES it made a difference.




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theNotoriousP.I.G. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 02:42 PM
Response to Reply #187
196. As a human being
I have little appreciation for your viciousness. Perhaps you should go join in on another thread dedicated to piling on Cindy. This thread was meant to reach out in peace.

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JNelson6563 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 03:11 PM
Response to Reply #196
208. "Viciousness"????
:rofl:
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theNotoriousP.I.G. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 03:28 PM
Response to Reply #208
216. yeah. That's what I said.
and glad your 15 year old will not be cannon fodder anytime soon thanks to Cindy's efforts.
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bettyellen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 06:50 PM
Response to Reply #208
278. no it's more like sleazy opportunistic and self serving, you liked cindy when she played it
how you would... then she actually told the truth about peple you work for. so, throw her out like a used tissue, you'll never put human life above the goal of winning next november, right? and a little war is good for our party as long as no one fucks it up and says we're complicit. (doesn;t matter if at this point, we are)
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Morgana LaFey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 08:44 PM
Response to Reply #208
319. Yes, Julie. Viciousness. Meanspiritedness as well.
Resentful. Highly inappropriate, IMO. Even IF your points are appropriate (highly debatable), they have been delivered in a tone and spirit you say Cindy lacks --- and so, obviously, do you.

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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 08:58 PM
Response to Reply #208
323. I actually respected you at one point.
I know you don't care in the slightest,but there ya go.
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Subdivisions Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 07:08 PM
Response to Reply #196
288. I'm honored that I had the chance to
thank you for your efforts in person at Camp Casey III. I hope you find the strength and the will to carry on but if you choose not to, I understand and support you.

God bless you Cindy and, again, thank you.
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Bronyraurus Donating Member (871 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 07:11 PM
Response to Reply #187
289. Ha! Delicious!
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WiseButAngrySara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-30-07 01:55 PM
Response to Reply #289
372. Delicious in what way dinosaur? Did you mean vicious? ...n/t
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 09:18 PM
Response to Reply #187
327. Tacky to post this in this thread.
You have lots of other threads to post this in, why in this one?
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Generator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 03:04 PM
Response to Reply #43
205. You are missing the entire point
It's not about Democratic Underground. It's not about her being called names. It's about the party itself and what is actually DOES and stands for and it's future. I suggest you read her letter again. She is not someone that would be welcome on this site according to your rules. The fact that no one gets that is just amazing. Read the letter again. Really read it, ten or twenty times. She really means what she says. The letter is an indictment of the entire Democratic party. And sadly, I agree with her.
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MichiganVote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 04:21 PM
Response to Reply #43
236. Well Julie..here's the deal. You know those people who talk during a movie at the theater....
You're one of them. So turn off your cell phone and just listen. This is a listening thread. You've been heard, now just shut up.
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 04:50 PM
Response to Reply #236
245. Best post I have read all day!!
Thank you. :)
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motocicleta Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 04:55 PM
Response to Reply #245
249. Hear, hear.
Thanks.

I have been overwhelmed with the negativity about Ms. Sheehan, not that she is perfect, but that for a community that has been kicked around so much in the past six years, we are so inclined to kick around someone on our side. I repeat: on OUR SIDE. It's truly breathtaking. Is it Stockhom Syndrome?
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MichiganVote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 06:01 PM
Response to Reply #249
263. Bush/Cheney Syndrome
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bettyellen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 06:55 PM
Response to Reply #249
281. some dems believe the war is not a bad thing... like cheney they have other priorities...
they want it buried for a while so they can triangulate....
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MichiganVote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 08:01 PM
Response to Reply #281
310. They'll care when the bill comes due...and we're all going to pay for that.
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ray of light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 09:12 PM
Response to Reply #236
326. Standing "O" to your comment.
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Exiled in America Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 05:35 PM
Response to Reply #43
259. Julie I almost never agree with you, and of all the people I disagree with.......
....I am quite sure I respect you the most.

I disagree usually because I'm more of an idealist. I do want the Democratic party to work "my way" on many points, and if it doesn't I get grumpy and want to force it to change. I would even go outside the party to get my "will" done, if I thought that would yield the best chance of success.

You are a lot more loyal than I am. But you are also fracking smart. :)

So, I enjoy reading your stuff. I don't really agree with your reasons for taking issue with Sheehan here, but thats alright. We've argued about why many times before. I also post as sel, and I just wanted to say you're alright in my book. :)
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 07:35 PM
Response to Reply #43
295. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
bleever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 08:19 PM
Response to Reply #43
314. Thank you, Skinner, and
God bless Cindy Sheehan.
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countmyvote4real Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 10:03 PM
Response to Reply #43
334. Ewww. Double check your team/party, Julie.
It's democratic, not dramatic.
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donheld Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-30-07 12:46 AM
Response to Reply #43
350. I cannot disagree more n/t
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LaurenG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 09:39 AM
Response to Original message
44. Very nice and I am in agreement with what was said here. nt
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The Backlash Cometh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 09:41 AM
Response to Original message
45. Thanks, Skinner.
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janx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 09:43 AM
Response to Original message
46. K&R
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GliderGuider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 09:43 AM
Response to Original message
47. Cindy is one of the truly great voices your nation has produced.
Thanks for supporting her. I hope that even if she remains firm in her decision to withdraw that a thousand others will honour her spirit and pick up her torch.

BTW, WTF is up with your leaders these days? I haven't seen such a rapid public putrefaction in years! Rove and Co. must be getting a really good snicker out of it.
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laylah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 09:44 AM
Response to Original message
48. Well said, David and
thank you for all you have done, Cindy. Rest well and should you feel like it, please join us again. :hug:
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flvegan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 09:44 AM
Response to Original message
49. Well said, Skinner.
Very well said.
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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 09:45 AM
Response to Original message
50. Thanks Skinner.
The attacks were disgusting,and I'm not easily disgusted.
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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 09:46 AM
Response to Original message
51. Thank You For Stepping In With This Skinner.
Even if it doesn't change anything, it should at the least do some good in the fact that I'm sure she'll take it to heart and think about your words, and hopefully it will help her feel a bit better. Coming from you, the lead man of DU, I would think she'd take this post very seriously.

I feel for Cindy. I've posted publicly here that I have had trouble supporting her with the vigor I once had, and that I disagree with some of the ways she has gone about things recently. In my opinion, she had drifted a bit too far away from where I am comfortable. But it didn't occur to me the impact such dissent, when grouped together with many others, could have. I think sometimes we forget when posting on an internet message board that there are real people with real feelings on the other end.

Though I disagree with the direction she had been going, I don't want her to hang up her gloves for a second. I was a bit taken aback after reading her resignation letter, as I was a bit surprised as to how deeply it hit me. It broke my heart and I felt like shit for having publicly stated my lack of support such a short time earlier.

I may disagree with her, but that doesn't mean I don't admire or respect her. The strength and sacrifice she's shown is more than about anybody I've seen in this movement. I can only hope that she'll rethink her resignation and continue to fight, even if I don't agree with how. I think she deserves a break and very well may need one. But I hope it is short lived and she's back doing what she does best.

And Cindy, if by some slight chance you're reading this, I want to offer my humble apologies if any of my words have ever effected you. Whether I agree fully with you or not, you are more valuable than I'll ever be in this effort. That holds true for anyone else who has disagreed with you as well. Don't let us ever break you down. I wish I could take any of my criticisms back, even if I believed in them, because in the end of it all I'd much rather have you in the fight than out of it. It's funny sometimes how ya don't know what ya got till it's gone, huh?

So thanks Skinner. I was hoping DU would put out an official statement. I know I publicly disagreed with her and now I feel like shit cause of it. I can only hope that your words and the words of the mass amount of DU'ers who support her with such passion, can undo any of the hurt that dissent like mine may have caused.
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UNCLE_Rico Donating Member (124 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 05:46 PM
Response to Reply #51
262. If only EVERYone on this thread had your level of tact and class...
Nothing wrong with expressing disappointment or disagreement, even on a thread like this, when it's handled with tact and class as you have done.

So, thanks for that, OMC, and thanks Skinner for your eloquent expression of a very pervasive sentiment here amongst us proles.

Cindy has shown tremendous courage and truly fought the good fight. Even in the various cases where some of us perhaps feel we would've handled things differently, I think very few of us DU'ers ever lost sight of the fact that her heart has been in the right place, she has acted primarily out of love for her son and indeed, every mother's sons and daughters.

What she's accomplished over the past few years may well turn out to have saved a good many lives, so I can't help but feel losing her leadership may ... well ... end up costing some lives.

I for one hope she reconsiders her relinquishment of her leadership role, at least, regardless of whether or not she tows the (growing ever thinner) 'party line'. She has been a true leader at a time when true leaders have been few and far between, and I don't see anybody out there that can fill her shoes.

Last weeks disappointments, including losing Cindy's leadership, REALLY makes me hope that Al Gore will jump into the race and come out swinging for the fences like he has nothing to lose. We are going to need to see a great, inspiring Democrat to step up and LEAD this Nation (and this party, especially) out of this darkness FAST, or I fear we could end up fractured beyond repair (at least in the immediate future, which happens to be a VERY IMPORTANT timeframe...).

Cindy whichever role you choose for yourself in the future, thanks for your contributions up to this point. Sorry you've went thru so much pain. Peace be with you and yours.
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WiseButAngrySara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-30-07 02:27 PM
Response to Reply #51
375. Beautiful response IMO OMC. I've always been on the side of
Cindy. One single grieving mother did more than all of our elected officials have, in attempting to bring the light of justice to this war of profit motivated greed based on artificial fear and lies. She was, and I sincerely hope will continue to be, a catalyst for the nation's conscience.
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Melissa G Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 09:47 AM
Response to Original message
52. Thank you, Skinner! I love you Cindy! Rest. You deserve it.
I hope you come back to the movement. Betrayal stinks, but like war it exists.
As well you know, it's not about those who have been betrayed but by those weak enough to betray.
Holding you in the Light,
Melissa G
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 09:48 AM
Response to Original message
53. Cindy we love you!
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myrna minx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 09:53 AM
Response to Original message
54. We love and respect you Cindy.
Thank you for all that you have done for our Country and for our troops.
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pecwae Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 09:53 AM
Response to Original message
55. Thank you, Skinner
Edited on Tue May-29-07 09:54 AM by pecwae
And to Cindy: Please do what feels right in your heart for yourself. As a mother who has lost a son I can identify a bit with you. You have my respect, admiration and wishes for well being and some semblance of peace for your shattered soul.
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IChing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 09:54 AM
Response to Original message
56. Thank you Skinner.....n/t
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understandinglife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 09:54 AM
Response to Original message
58. Superb. Thank you.
Peace.
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havocmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 09:55 AM
Response to Original message
59. Heartfeld words from a wise, caring young man to a caring, grieving mother.
Heartfelt thanks to Cindy. Many here will keep her in our personal versions of prayers, that her health and energies return to give her new joys and priorities in her life.

We'll keep a candle in the window, in case someone wanders our way again.

:patriot:
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Systematic Chaos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 09:57 AM
Response to Original message
60. Thank you so much, Skinner.
This was really needed after some of the crap that was posted here yesterday. I can understand people being upset at Mrs. Sheehan wanting to bow out, but some things that were said were very uncalled-for. And I, too, hope she'll find the strength to fight again someday. But if not, she has done more than anyone could ask already.
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tmlanders Donating Member (149 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 09:57 AM
Response to Original message
61. Thanks, Skinner...
and a big thank you to Cindy for all that you do!

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DemoTex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 09:57 AM
Response to Original message
62. Skinner speaks for me.
Reason prevails, yet again.

:kick:
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mntleo2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 09:58 AM
Response to Original message
63. Thank-You Skinner!
... I was very dismayed Cindy's mention of DU as one of the reasons she is leaving the peace movement. I hope we all learn something from this and work TOGETHER to end this terrible war.

Cat In Seattle
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madmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 10:00 AM
Response to Original message
64. thank you Cindy, and thank you Skinner..
:thumbsup: :thumbsup:
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GeorgeGist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 10:00 AM
Response to Original message
65. kandr
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johnnie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 10:01 AM
Response to Original message
66. Well said Skinner
Cindy, if you happen to read this, just know that many people here feel as David does. Sometimes people forget that other people are people too.

Please take care and thank you for all you have done.
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Straight Shooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 10:03 AM
Response to Original message
67. Crooks & Liars features Cindy Sheehan's letter
http://tinyurl.com/2y2leq

There are quite a few remarks posted in the Comments section by C&L readers which slam DU for criticism of Cindy. One in particular, bdrude, was particularly accusatory of our maltreatment of her:

I totally agree with Cindy about Democratic Underground. I know from personal experience that the site is full of pathetic losers who midlessly attack antiwar activists if you merely point out such "inconvenient truths" as the fact that Hillary voted for the war.

And here's what ST said:
Just further proves why I continuously get banned from the Democratic Underground. Because those idiots are just as terrible of the Republican Party is when it comes to PARTISANSHIP.

I got banned last time because I said I respected the fact that Thom Hartmann criticizes Republicans AND DEMOCRATS, when they deserve to be criticize ... When Cindy Sheehan decided that she no longer wanted to be a part of the Democratic Party, those idiots over their turned on her because she no longer had the "LABEL," and that's all that some fools care about.


From Mr. XXXX:
Its also a crying shame that the people in DU who attacked Cindy Sheehan are out of touch with political reality that the Democrats themselves cast onto their own individual selves.

I posted a comment and invited all of them to visit DU and read the threads in tribute to Ms. Sheehan. No one responded to my post in the C&L Comments section, and I think there has now been in the blogosphere quite a bit of damage done to DU by Cindy singling out DU in her statement. I think it's a misperception on her part, and I think it's very sad that there are so many members here who are devoted to her completely, with an allegiance rarely found towards anyone these days, and yet in her mind the criticism from a few members outweighs the praise and commendation.

I have tended to stay on the sidelines as regards Cindy, because, to me, she has a right to grieve and express her grief and channel that grief however she wants to. Never being in her shoes, I have no right to tell her how to conduct her antiwar effort. But it pains me to see this forum slammed so publicly, when most here support her unconditionally.

It wasn't DU which hurt and betrayed Cindy. It was the refusal of the MSM to portray her for what she is, a grieving mother persevering against all odds to end an unjust, illegal war. We did our best to promote her cause and to support her.

That is all I want to say on this subject. Thank you.
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Mythsaje Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 01:43 PM
Response to Reply #67
171. ROFL
I've time and time again criticized whoever the hell I wanted to criticize and I've never, as far as I know, been in danger of being banned.

Some people are just terminally stupid.
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 02:12 PM
Response to Reply #171
185. No kidding
Edited on Tue May-29-07 02:13 PM by depakid
Stupid is as stupid does.

If people were banned for such things, I'd have been gone a LONG time ago!
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Straight Shooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 07:04 PM
Response to Reply #171
286. Those posters were blowing smoke up everyone's arse.
Unfortunately, there will be people who believe them. I suspect some of the posters on that C&L thread are freeper trolls, seizing an opportunity to spread lies, rumor, and innuendo about DU.
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marions ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-30-07 08:10 PM
Response to Reply #67
379. agreed
I think you have it right there-- Cindy has an unfortunate misperception of DU. IMO for the most part, this forum has been very solidly behind Cindy from the first time she came on the scene. But being burnt out sensitizes people and often they can't get over the negativity they might otherwise scoff at if they felt stronger.

Though I understand why Cindy had a strong reaction to the decisions of the Democratic party
congressionals it's not fair to DU to lump everyone here in with them --just because some jerks make some rude comments in an open forum. But I understand her discouragement in general. I'm sure she feels pretty raw and strung out right now.

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specimenfred1984 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 10:06 AM
Response to Original message
68. When I stood up for her I had my posts deleted
The reason given was "you are not required to like Cindy Sheehan to post on Democraticunderground". I know people who have been publically smeared and while they may put up a brave front, the smears hurt them. The Sheehan attacks were widespread here and while DU protected free speech over loyalty to a leading democrat, DU also allowed the same smear machine that flourishes in propaganda networks to flourish here.

By allowing the smears, you did indeed hurt her. In any "free" society there are always limits on acceptable behavior and my suggestion to DU is that in the future you think about limiting the smears on leading democratic figures in the same way you limit smears on anyone else, especially because the very name of the site has "democratic" in it.
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Skinner ADMIN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 10:17 AM
Response to Reply #68
83. To be clear.
Your post was not shut down because you "stood up for her." Your post was shut down because you referred to some of the members of this site as "a bunch of fckheads."
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Perky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 11:33 AM
Response to Reply #83
110. word!!!
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Kingshakabobo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 11:42 AM
Response to Reply #83
116. Well, there's THAT small detail. LOL.... n/t
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Jersey Devil Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 05:35 PM
Response to Reply #116
260. Too funny! What a nitpicker, eh?
That was some funny exchange! :rofl:
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Rydz777 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 10:07 AM
Response to Original message
69. "bring an end to this terrible war" That above all.
Cindy is one who has paid a deeply painful price, the loss of her son, in this disaster. It is simply crass not to treat her with the respect she deserves.
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bdamomma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 10:08 AM
Response to Original message
70. thank you skinner.
:thumbsup:
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 10:08 AM
Response to Original message
71. Thanks, Skinner for this.. n/t
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Libby2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 10:08 AM
Response to Original message
72. Very well said Skinner! n/t
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Dhalgren Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 10:09 AM
Response to Original message
73. Thanks Skinner.
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Cameron27 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 10:10 AM
Response to Original message
74. Very well said,
thank you. I think your voice was necessary at this point.
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Fire Walk With Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 10:12 AM
Response to Original message
75. Great post for a great person. Thanks.
And it further outlines one of the main problems regarding the Republicans. To paraphrase Matt Groening in Variety recently, "The troublemakers eventually get tired and find something else to go after." Sadly, this works against us as well as for us, when the squatters in the White House know that they can do business as usual and that those of us who are against it cannot apply the same amount of time and energy to stop them. Bush can, in words, not actions, capitulate regarding Iraq, so long as he and his buddies rack up that next $128 billion in profit.

However, I am of a mind that every single thought, every single word, and every single action against the warprofit people stays around somehow, and is built upon, and eventually becomes self-sustaining as new people add to it. We cannot stop because the option is horrific. This is why we will not stop. And we must thank Cindy for being the loudest among us. She must have given many the courage to speak up, and act up. Is there any greater legacy than peacemaking?

Best Regards to Skinner and Cindy. Pardon my soapbox.
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NightWatcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 10:14 AM
Response to Original message
76. thanks, Skinner. Let's keep her fight alive. Let's take the torch from this wonderful lady.
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deutsey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 10:15 AM
Response to Original message
77. Excellent. Thanks for posting this...n/t
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Hubert Flottz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 10:16 AM
Response to Original message
78. Cindy stood up to Bush and told the truth about his war...
That is more than most of the so called "Elected Leaders" in Washington have ever done. I as a veteran, salute her bravery and her love for her country. I will always be grateful to her for her many great sacrifices. She truly deserves her "Gold Star" if any American ever did.

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supernova Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 10:16 AM
Response to Original message
79. You're a classy guy, David
:thumbsup:

Thanks for this.
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InvisibleTouch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 10:16 AM
Response to Original message
80. Nicely said, Skinner, & please send it to her directly too...
...otherwise she may not see it posted here.
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opihimoimoi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 10:16 AM
Response to Original message
81. Hope it works...the Dem Family needs all its members and she is one of us
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rucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 10:17 AM
Response to Original message
82. Skinner and Cindy speak for me! n/t
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ChiciB1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 10:20 AM
Response to Original message
84. Thanks For Your Post... But I Do Agree On One Thing... We Are A Diverse
group here and that's as it should be, but lately I have found this place to be far too SNARKY and downright NASTY!!

I come and go now, where I once blogged all the time! I myself am worn out and feel that mostly what I do is "spit into the wind!"

I posted at Will Pitt's thread too and want to thank him again! America seems to be coming apart at the seams and I see less and less Democratic Unity!

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npincus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 10:22 AM
Response to Original message
85. I want Cindy to take care of herself
she's done a hell of a lot more for our cause than her biggest critcs. If she needs to get away for her own self-preservation, so be it. We will carry on. Anonymity makes some so vicious, it's sad.

If you read this Cindy, I thank you from the bottom of my heart for your personal sacrifice to the cause of ending this war. Millions respect and admire you. I am sorry a couple of vocal critics have hurt and discouraged you. The odds against us are so great. You will be sorely missed.

Be well, and thanks to your family for their patience and sacrifice.

Peace.
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wryter2000 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 10:26 AM
Response to Original message
86. Thanks, Skinner
It's dismaying to know that something posted here was part of her decision to resign.
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tavalon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 10:26 AM
Response to Original message
87. Wow
103 recommends in just over an hour! I suspect this may have the highest recommend count ever.
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Annces Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 10:27 AM
Response to Original message
88. K&R n/t
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angryxyouth Donating Member (174 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 10:27 AM
Response to Original message
89. Thank you Cindy!!
You are right. This is not a partisan issue. Some of our Democratic leaders are just as entrenched in the corporate blood money as their Republican counterparts. I'm hoping that your leaving will incite the people to turn up the heat on our so called representatives. Let them feel us breathing down their necks.
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classof56 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 10:30 AM
Response to Original message
90. Thank you, Skinner, for stepping up to the plate on our behalf.
I found it hard to believe the negative comments some DUers made about Cindy, and so sorry she had to read that. Dissent is of course acceptable but all the ugliness directed toward her was concerning to me and obviously many, many others. Thanks for speaking for us. I expressed my support for Cindy in another thread. Hope the word reaches her!

Tired Old Cynic
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Jack Rabbit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 10:31 AM
Response to Original message
91. We love Cindy and wish her the best
/s/


My mark placed here with assistance from
the University of Kansas

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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 10:32 AM
Response to Original message
92. Very nice letter
If anything could get her to reconsider, this could be it. Even if not, I believe that the expressed appreciation for her valient efforts is richly deserved and should be appreciated.
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Skidmore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 10:32 AM
Response to Original message
93. Skinner is a leader, as is Cindy.
Thank you both.
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sojourner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 10:33 AM
Response to Original message
94. here's a kick for an important message...thanks Skinner!
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otohara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 10:36 AM
Response to Original message
95. Hope She Reconsiders
nice letter Skinner
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tavalon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 10:45 AM
Response to Reply #95
96. Me too!
However, she clearly needs a break.
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Carolina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 10:49 AM
Response to Original message
97. very eloquent, Skinner
heartfelt thanks to Cindy and to you!

K&R
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Lone_Star_Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 10:52 AM
Response to Original message
98. Well said, Skinner.
Thank you for taking the time to respond and make the point that a minority of people here shared that sentiment.

Again, thank you.
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SharonRB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 10:52 AM
Response to Original message
99. Thanks, Skinner
I hope Cindy gets a chance to read this and perhaps reconsiders her decision. If she still decides to bow out, I totally respect her choice and understand it. Some time with her surviving children would probably be a good thing for both her and them.

As an aside, a very ironic thing happened to me yesterday. I've been reading "Imperial Life in the Emerald City" since January and swore I was going to finish it yesterday. After reading about everything going on with Cindy both here and at DKos, I sat down to finish it. I read about a battle in Sadr City against the Mahdi Army back in 2004 and then came to a paragraph that talked about the loss of 8 of our soldiers, including Casey Sheehan. It really caught me off guard and brought tears to my eyes. How ironic, I thought, that after all this time I've been trying to finish this book, and of all days to read that paragraph it would be the day that Cindy decided to resign.

Whatever Cindy decides to do, she has done so much good up to now and has made a huge difference.
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emdee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 10:54 AM
Response to Original message
100. I would like to thank Cindy....
Thank you, Cindy, for all that you have done thus far. If you've exhausted yourself and can go no further, I can certainly understand. You've done more than most of us. I think it is wonderful that you expect the same results from anyone in office no matter what their political affiliation. I wish we were seeing more action from the Dems in the House and the Senate. I expected more out of them by now.

Thank you for being a voice of reason for as long as you were able to do so.
emdee
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Gemini Cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 10:55 AM
Response to Original message
101. Thank-you Skinner and thank-you Cindy.
Cindy come back when you are rested.
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 11:03 AM
Response to Original message
102. Cindy, sometimes a break is needed. I stand with you, thank and support you.
Do what you need to do, it is up to you. Don't let the outspoken critics get you down. Take a break and hope you feel better. You need to take care of yourself also. Thank youl.
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dae Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 11:03 AM
Response to Original message
103. Well said, thank you Skinner.
Cindy certainly summed this country's current values up when she wrote of people's views on American Idol vs. the Iraq War.
The lady has shown more strength than all of the neocons put together.
Thank you Ms. Sheehan.
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ebayfool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 11:07 AM
Response to Original message
104. Bravo, Skinner ... well said - & Brava Cindy!
Thank you - both!

Unlike most of DU - I've just been rendered speechless by the barrage of sniping, infighting & venom displayed here of late.

I'm pleased to see some balance applied to the forum.

For as long as it lasts, anyway!

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IndyOp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 11:17 AM
Response to Original message
106. Thank you, Skinner - very much. (n/t)
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ejbr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 11:19 AM
Response to Original message
107. Thank you Cindy and David!!! n/t
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BuyingThyme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 11:28 AM
Response to Original message
108. kcik
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SaveAmerica Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 11:31 AM
Response to Original message
109. I thank Cindy Sheehan for doing a thankless job, she's showing us
how to fight the good fight.
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wicket Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 11:34 AM
Response to Original message
111. K & R
:kick:
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SOS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 11:38 AM
Response to Original message
112. Excellent post
Thank you.
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Maat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 11:39 AM
Response to Original message
113. Thank you, Skinner!
I support Cindy and her work, and I will be ever grateful to her for greatly helping me with my motivation to fight the war. I've never felt qualified to criticize her. Yes, I, personally, am fighting my fight through the Democratic party, among using other venues; however, I respect other progressives' choices.

Well-said, David. Again, thank you.
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cynthia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 11:39 AM
Response to Original message
114. each anniversary
is challenging, whether it is the anniversary of his death, or whether it is his birthday. A mother grieves anew, sometimes in silence, sometimes shared. How difficult it must be for Cindy that Casey's birthday will always fall so near this holiday which is another time each year for grieving parents to remember their loved ones lost in this insane war.

Thank you, Skinner, for this letter. I hope we can all send our thoughts to Cindy expressing our gratitude for all she has done so far. She has inspired us to carry on in this noble effort.

6 more soldiers killed today........... When will it end?

http://icasualties.org/oif/
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Tarc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 11:42 AM
Response to Original message
117. If I may ask a question
I've been told in the past, and have seen others here berated for this, that attacking or criticizing the Democratic Party and/or its members is forbidden. Obviously I tend to agree with that (Lieberman being an exception), else I would not have voted (D), supported Representative Hodes and worked to help get him elected last year, and would not be present in this forum.

Given that, why is Cindy Sheehan an untouchable figure, given the heaps of criticism and scorn that she has piled upon the Democratic party of late? Not sure I understand why a now-vocal party critic is being given a pass to do things that forum members routinely cannot.

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Skinner ADMIN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 12:32 PM
Response to Reply #117
136. Did you even read my post?
I very clearly state that members of Democratic Underground are permitted to criticize Cindy Sheehan. She is not untouchable, nor is any other public figure.
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ComerPerro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 12:56 PM
Response to Reply #136
149. Yeah, but there are a few problems with that
For one, it shouldn't even have to be said that memebers are free to criticize her. She is just another person, nothing sacred about her. So the very idea that you would need to state that criticism of her will be tolerated is, frankly, kind of insulting.

Moreover, I think the point the other poster was trying to make is that support of opponents of Dems is usually not tolerated for long here. But people who defend Dems against people like BillO and Hannity and Rush then turn around and attack them, but it is ok because its a "Cindy thread". So it is starting to feel like there is a double standard. Call a leading Dem a traitor or a criminal or an enemy in one thread, get your post deleted and/or called a troll. Do it in another thread, and you are just another voice in the echo chamber.

Now, I appreciate where you are coming from on this. No matter your personal opinions, you need to keep things civil and keep the site together. And, whether you feel this is accurate or not, you are seen as a leader here (after all, you do own the place), which quite honestly is why I am being so overly civil (LOL). So I definately recognize that you have to walk a very fine line. In many cases, you probably can't post your true thoughts on subjects because of your status.

But I just want to say that while Greens and Libertarians were very quickly reminded that we are a Democratic site, the Sheehan supporters seem to be freely and openly attacking all Dems with more venom than they show to some Republicans, and have gone even further (in my opinion, have crossed the line) by in many cases insinuating that people who do not back Sheehan are anything from unquestioning party whores to lock-step, goosestepping brownshirts!

Anyway, just wanted to get that out, maybe expand a bit on what the first poster may have been saying.

These are frustrating times.

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Tarc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-31-07 10:03 AM
Response to Reply #149
381. thanks
Kinda what I was getting at, yea. While it may be technically permissible to post criticism of Sheehan around here, you get jumped on pretty quick. One can be anti-war without being pro-Sheehan, but some around here just don't seem to get that.
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Madspirit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 12:50 PM
Response to Reply #117
142. Wow...speaking before reading
You might read Skinner's post AND you might read the rules. You just made all that up.
Lee
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MichiganVote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 04:23 PM
Response to Reply #117
237. Maybe because she's better looking than you.
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Dinger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 11:42 AM
Response to Original message
118. Highly Kicked & Recommended!
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in_cog_ni_to Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 11:45 AM
Response to Original message
119. Thank you, Skinner. What a wonderful post.
:hug:
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Canuckistanian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 11:47 AM
Response to Original message
120. Yeah, what he said
Only double.
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scarface2004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 11:48 AM
Response to Original message
121. i second the motion
cindy is fine by me
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cwydro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 11:50 AM
Response to Original message
123. kick
:kick:
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Tom Joad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 11:51 AM
Response to Original message
124. Thanks Skinner. I support Cindy and her fight against those in the Dem Party who think ending
this illegal, immoral war is an optional exercise.
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robinlynne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 11:51 AM
Response to Original message
125. We not only support you Cindy, we love you and are deeply grateful!
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redwitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 11:53 AM
Response to Original message
126. Thank you for this.
And thank you Cindy, you are wonderful and I am grateful for all you have done.
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colorado_ufo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 11:57 AM
Response to Original message
127. Perfectly expressed.
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Misskittycat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 11:57 AM
Response to Original message
128. Thanks for writing this, Skinner. n/t
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orleans Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 11:57 AM
Response to Original message
129. i hope cindy sees this thread, and the others that show our support for her
she's had a long emotional journey. these words of kindness might help to ease the strain.

she continues to be a hero.

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MrPrax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 11:58 AM
Response to Original message
130. Bravo!!! Bullseye!! Your the tops!! n/t
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greyl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 12:00 PM
Response to Original message
131. Very well said, thanks.
I'm sure she'll appreciate it.
:thumbsup:
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Vinnie From Indy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 12:00 PM
Response to Original message
132. I agree !!!
Thanks Skinner!

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Joey Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 12:01 PM
Response to Original message
133. Well put Skinner and THANK YOU Cindy! nt
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WolverineDG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 12:02 PM
Response to Original message
134. We love you , Cindy!
:hug:

Thanks, Skinner, for posting this.

dg
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inchhigh Donating Member (182 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 12:02 PM
Response to Original message
135. I'm with Cindy....
all the way (up to and including her recent frustrations). Whatever you choose, We're with you Cindy!
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19jet54 Donating Member (737 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 12:37 PM
Response to Original message
137. There are no words...
... that can help with her pain, for the loss of Casey, her son. Memorial Day is nothing but pain, and any critical DU post is even more pain, as is Casey's birthday, Mother's Day, Christmas, Veteran's Day or any special day of Casey moments? There are no words of ours that even diminish her pain, but every "causality report" only deepens her heartbreak, every day until they just stop. Try as hard as she can, more mothers are to suffer with her, to feel her pain; more & more every day? "Please make them stop!" is all Cindy is saying? Bless you mom for caring about someone other than yourself... we can see where Casey learned his selflessness. While you feel like quitting, we do not - we will fight for you :)
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SusanaMontana41 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 12:43 PM
Response to Original message
138. Bravo, Skinner
And bravo, Cindy. Nobody can say that you haven't done your part, and then some. Rejuvenate, then rejoin. We'll be here.
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A-Schwarzenegger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 12:45 PM
Response to Original message
139. Thank you, David, and thank you, Cindy.
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Madspirit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 12:48 PM
Response to Original message
140. Thank-you Skinner!!...k&r..n/t
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mdmc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 12:49 PM
Response to Original message
141. I support CINDY!
I must admit I don't know what is goin on... but I will place my bet with Cindy...
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 12:50 PM
Response to Original message
143. Thank you, Skinner
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me b zola Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 12:53 PM
Response to Original message
144. Thank you Skinner
k&r
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Kurovski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 12:53 PM
Response to Original message
145. K&R. (nt)
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coffeenap Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 12:53 PM
Response to Original message
146. Thank you, Skinner.
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mark414 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 12:54 PM
Response to Original message
147. way to go skinner and way to go cindy
K & R
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ewagner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 12:54 PM
Response to Original message
148. Thank You Cindy
for all you have done....

I'm so sorry that you have been treated badly.

There is no excuse for it.

Love

e
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Critters2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 12:56 PM
Response to Original message
150. Skinner, as always, the voice of reason
Thank you.
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underpants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 12:59 PM
Response to Original message
151. DU wise and otherwise
:applause:
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SeattleGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 12:59 PM
Response to Original message
152. Thanks, Skinner
And once again, thank you Cindy!
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GoddessOfGuinness Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 12:59 PM
Response to Original message
153. I add my rec. as a sign of support for Cindy
...and Skinner as well! :yourock:
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 01:02 PM
Response to Original message
154. Thanks, David Allen, for that
beautiful response to Cindy Sheehan for those of us who support what Cindy does.

I hope(from reading Will Pitt's post yesterday) that Cindy just needs a good, relatively long rest and she'll be back stronger than ever. Whatever she does, she goes out a winner in my book because she tries so hard and there's no failure in that.

Rest well, Cindy Sheehan. You know your son, Casey, is proud of you! O8) :patriot: :hug: :grouphug:
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Mabus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 01:03 PM
Response to Original message
155. Thanks to both Skinner and Cindy
Well said. K&R
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9thkvius Donating Member (130 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 01:07 PM
Response to Original message
156. Thank you for saying this, Skinner
and for helping me to not lose any more faith in people than I already have. My observations of you are one of the reasons I made my first contribution to the site this year. I think you're doing well by most of us.

This is my first year of really participating in DU. For a variety of reasons, I have not really spent much time at the site since I officially joined it years ago. I regret that, but I needed to do it on my own time, and if I had tried to do it sooner, I would have probably been guilty of posting something I would later have been embarassed about or even ashamed.

I also agree with much of what Cindy said in her letter. There are some things that are said on the site that cause me to groan and shake my head. This is not a reflection on you, Skinner, as much as it is a reflection on some of our members. You give us the freedom to say all sorts of things, including the things that occasionally make us look foolish at best and downright despicable at worst, the sort of things that those posting them should later feel ashamed about.

I wish that much of what Cindy said was not true, but sadly, it is. I hope that something will happen within the Democratic party that will not make me lose faith in them as well, but each bad decision on their part pushes me a little further that way. I don't want to give up on the party just yet, but a few more major roll-over-and-play-dead moments on the part of the party "leadership" may just make me reconsider.

Anyway, thanks again man.
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yarddog Donating Member (1 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 01:07 PM
Response to Original message
157. Read Cindy Sheeham letter
Take the time to read Ms. Sheehan's letter. Separate out the emotional hurt and listen to what she is saying about the progressive movement. Listen to the truth "...peace movement that often puts personal egos..." And what it has done to her personal life ... there is the tragic ... I understand, I understand. The movement intimately doesnt care about the people in it, just the results.
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mohinoaklawnillinois Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 01:11 PM
Response to Original message
159. Beautifully said, David
Thank you.. :hug: :hug:
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ClayZ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 01:11 PM
Response to Original message
160. Millions have stood with Cindy Sheehan
Edited on Tue May-29-07 01:12 PM by ClayZ
Camp Casey, closed or open, is now in the national and world psyche!

Wikkipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cindy_Sheehan

Thanks Skinner, for writing this! I hope this helps Cindy to know how many people love her and are grateful for her efforts.


I can not imagine what it feels like to be in her shoes. I have cried for her, made posters supporting her, stood in the streets with peace flag and my I (heart) Cindy Sheehan poster. But, to be in her shoes, must be ...... so difficult.

I hope she rests, treats herself well!

And, to those who are critical of her... SHAME ON YOU!
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 01:12 PM
Response to Original message
161. k&r
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SteveM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 01:19 PM
Response to Reply #161
164. Thanks for your efforts, Ms. Sheehan. I think of my Mom and what she would have done.
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theNotoriousP.I.G. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 01:13 PM
Response to Original message
163. Thank you for writing this Skinner n/t
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austinboy Donating Member (377 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 01:22 PM
Response to Original message
165. Very nice letter indeed!
:)
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kestrel91316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 01:26 PM
Response to Original message
166. Yeah! What Skinner said!
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shadowknows69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 01:28 PM
Response to Original message
167. Bravo Skinner
Classy and to the point.
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Echotrail Donating Member (347 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 01:28 PM
Response to Original message
168. This needed to be said.
Thanks.
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Tatiana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 01:35 PM
Response to Original message
169. Co-sign.
This message articulates my own sentiments perfectly.
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Exiled in America Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 01:41 PM
Response to Original message
170. If this POV isn't ok here, I won't speak of it again:
..but I felt like Sheehan's choice to step aside was a good thing.

I've never insulted anyone, in fact I've never written on this subject before. I didn't realize there was drama at DU about it. But with all due respect, I feel like somewhere along the way the message got muddled or lost with the fame.

One of the things I don't understand is this: up until recently I worked in the progressive non-profit community (for the ACLU for some of that time) and when we tried to get Cindy Sheehan to come speak in our state, we were told we would have to pay her 10,000$ and change to do it.

I'm sorry, but that really bugs me. I don't care if every bit of that money was going to the cause of Sheehan's choice, its still pulling money out of local agencies trying to fight the good fight, and its totally limiting for groups down in the trenches battling in red states who can't afford to throw 10k around.

I can't help thinking that if I had the opportunity to gain the fame Sheehan has, I travel and speak for the cost of my expenses, nothing more. It would feel weird to me to make a profit off of the issue of the "war." I'm not saying that's what Cindy Sheehan has done. I don't know. I'm saying it was bewildering to me.

I'm totally willing to listen to other points of view about all of this. But I freely admit that that experience along with a few others really started to make me feel that may Sheehan the famous person was not the most effective thing we have going for us in our effort to stop the war.

But - I'm very willing to be convinced that I'm wrong.
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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 01:50 PM
Response to Reply #170
176. I'd like to see proof of that fee amount.
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theNotoriousP.I.G. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 01:56 PM
Response to Reply #176
180. yeah so would I
and I would also surmise that if she was charging 10,000 dollars a speaking engagement for her own personal enrichment she probably wouldn't have medical bills that have gone to collection agencies. :silly:
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AZBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 02:48 PM
Response to Reply #176
197. I've never contacted her personally, but I've heard of that fee as well.
I've read that she does have speaking fees in that range, although she has at times wavied them - but not that often from what I've seen. I've gotten this information previously from reading different places on the internet and such - many times there was a backlash at having to pay her so much, especially when she spoke at universities and colleges (I know UCLA and Chico State, for exammple, both had very unhappy students when their fees were used to pay her). I just now googled it and here's what I found:

http://forums.therandirhodesshow.com/index.php?showtopi...

http://www.thedailystar.com/news/stories/2005/11/29/she...

http://thehill.com/20-questions/20questions-profiles-ci...

and so on....I skpipped the GOP rants against her and just tried to stick to Dem or non-partisan sites....I'm not saying it's right or it's wrong, I'm just saying I think it's true.
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 04:56 PM
Response to Reply #197
250. And I really don't think it is true
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AZBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 07:55 PM
Response to Reply #250
305. All these people all over America and the internet are just making it up?
Edited on Tue May-29-07 08:10 PM by AZBlue
Including Randi Rhodes and Cindy Sheehan herself? Huh...interesting approach to reality there....
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 07:57 PM
Response to Reply #250
307. Well, it is true. In that third cite above she admits herself that she takes fees. And so what?
She's got to eat. In that second cite, from a university, they give the price she charged.

It's true. Again, so what? She has herself, and likely has a bit of an entourage--they need to be put up and fed and paid too, I'm sure.
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Exiled in America Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-30-07 01:45 PM
Response to Reply #307
371. She has to eat? LOL are you serious?
I wish I could charge ten thousand dollars for a two hour speaking engagement plus travel expenses under the justification of, "hey I have to eat." Especially when she does over twenty in a year (way over, I just don't have a hard number right now, so I thought I would be conservative.)

You say "so what" before giving the most unbelievably lame attempts at justifying such an inflated price. I'll answer the "so what" part, even though I already have.

It matters because it is totally limiting and counter productive to the goal of building grass roots opposition to the war and increasing momentum in the public for forcing its end. Its limiting for groups down in the trenches battling in red states who can't afford to throw 10k around.

There are plenty of places were the message should be heard that don't have 10k to shell out.

I also certainly don't feel comfortable with making a profit from the war. And I'm sorry, but 10,000 doesn't get justified by "she has to eat" or "she may have a bit of an entourage." Why? Fuck the entourage - there's no reason for them. How about, make the personal sacrifices necessary to allow local progressive organizations to KEEP that 10,000 dollars and investing directly on the ground into their communities? That's what other speakers regularly do.

And even if she charged such a fee with the plan to take that money and invest it in some other organization or in some way connected to the cause, its still taking money out of local organizations that often have to fight TOOTH AND NAIL to get it in the first place.

And that's really an important point. I wouldn't feel so uncomfortable about this, if it wasn't for the fact that you can get Anthony Romero, Executive Director of the National ACLU out to speak for the cost of travel expenses and accommodations. You can get plenty of serious progressive activists and authors to speak for the cost of travel expenses and accommodations. Cindy Sheehan's price seems to be inappropriately inflated for no other reason than her celerity.

I admit that bothers me.
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-31-07 01:03 AM
Response to Reply #371
380. Well, this is America, and you charge what the traffic will bear
And I don't seem to recall her speaking every day. If you only do it once or twice a month, and you have an entourage to feed, that money can go fast. And I think she has a bit of an entourage.

We really don't know what she does with her money, and it's premature to condemn her or speculate. For all you know, she could be buying body armour for kids with it. Or using it to buy more land next to George...I really don't know. Hell, if she invests it in Halliburton, well, that's her business, unless the media gets ahold of it and runs with the story, though I doubt that is the case.

Look, I'm not her greatest cheerleader. I honor her horrific sacrifice as a parent and I really do respect the antiwar work she's done; I thought the Crawford business was absolute genius and worked like a laxative to get the whole antiwar 'movement' as it were really rolling.

That said, when she started going afield from those efforts, well, she lost me. The "snuggling with Hugo and Fidel" stuff I found to be sheer PR luncacy, that just made her a target. It was almost as though she was playing a "How Left Can I GO??" game. The big mushy middle that "felt her pain" had trouble relating to those appearances--which looked like she was being used, frankly. But that said, it isn't up to her to do things to my liking. She's got the right to do whatever she pleases in this country, still. It did impact my support for her, because I thought she'd lost focus on the war issue, and was going after Porgie "generally."

But like I said, whatever--it's her life.

If I had to speculate, I would guess she's got some "advisors." And she might not be getting the best quality advice. It happens.

If people have trouble with her fees, they'll stop hiring her, or she'll drop her price. If she goes back on the circuit, that is--and it looks like she's done, at least for a while.

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Exiled in America Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 05:25 PM
Response to Reply #176
255. What kind of proof will work?
I don't work for the ACLU anymore, so I'm not sure what I can do. However, this is not some kind of "I heard someone tell someone that someone said blah blah blah."

I was working with my best friend of nearly ten years who was a community organizer at the time, and she was working with my other close friend who was the program / policy director for a state 527 at the time - they were the ones who tried to book her for a even put on jointly by both organizations. They were the ones that told me what price was quoted.

I'm not sure if I can find proof for you. But, if my best friend told me that's what it would cost, then that's what it would cost. End of story.
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 09:51 PM
Response to Reply #255
333. I read the links
and see that she did charge this fee. I feel lucky because she sure didn't quote me a fee anywhere near that when I asked her about speaking to our local group.
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Exiled in America Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-30-07 01:32 PM
Response to Reply #333
370. Yeah. I'm haven't formed some sweeping conclusion because of it. But the fee is lame.
I don't know what the reasoning behind it is/was. But in my mind, it runs the danger of being counter-productive to building a movement/base, if only the places with enough money to afford such a price can hear what the media has often called the "leader" of the anti-war movement. (not that I necessarily agree with their characterization.)
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 04:55 PM
Response to Reply #170
248. Sorry but I find that very hard to believe
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Exiled in America Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 05:26 PM
Response to Reply #248
257. Yeah, that's the common response I hear back.
I'm just telling you what happened. It really doesn't matter to me what you believe. You can take it or leave it.
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Morgana LaFey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 08:57 PM
Response to Reply #257
322. I'll take it and say this --
IF it's true, you have to remember that $10K isn't all that much money. If she takes taxes out of it (and she should), that leaves less. If she's not independently wealthy (and I'm pretty sure she's not), SHE needs something to live on, does she not? How many speaking engagements do you think she gets in a year? One a month would give her $120,000/year less expenses (unless they're separate and extra, and you didn't say that), less taxes which are highest at about that level. What about the piece of property she bought near Crawford? That may have been from her dead son's insurance, but is it fully paid or does she still have to pay on it? How about her other home -- is it paid for or is there a mortgage? What does she need to spend on clothing and food? One or several a month? Do her expenses (plane fare, etc.) come out of that or are they extra? How much of whatever money she gets has gone into her work? I remember she was in Europe not too long ago, wasn't she? -- who paid for that air fare? Who pays for the air fare for her to go elsewhere around the country? See her other kids?

None of us have the answers to those questions, and even if we did it's not our place to judge. Please don't begrudge people on our side the money they ask for for their work, esp. if you don't know the details of their lives.
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annabanana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 01:46 PM
Response to Original message
172. Thank you Skinner.. . a big "me too" from me.
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SPKrazy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 01:46 PM
Response to Original message
173. Great Letter Skinner!
We need Cindy, and I thank you for writing this!

:hi:
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KAT119 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 01:49 PM
Response to Original message
174. Thank you, Skinner, for reaching out to a true Heroine in our darkest days...
Cindy is hurt, sad, tired and human.

Cindy is asking us to step up More and to be each a brighter, fuller beacon of light in this time in which Evil is supported, imo.
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sampsonblk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 01:49 PM
Response to Original message
175. I second that
nt
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NotGivingUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 01:50 PM
Response to Original message
177. She didn't say she was giving up the fight. She said she's giving up on Democrats. nt
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 04:57 PM
Response to Reply #177
251. Did you read what she wrote yesterday?
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NotGivingUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 09:22 PM
Response to Reply #251
328. no, i hadn't, but now i have.
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MethuenProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 01:54 PM
Response to Original message
178. K&R #245
God bless you, Cindy!
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mvd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 01:54 PM
Response to Original message
179. Yes, I support Cindy
She got media coverage for the anti-war movement when even hundreds of thousands of people marching couldn't do it. But perhaps she's burned out and needs a rest. Imagine being away so much that your marriage breaks up. My hope is that she comes back stronger than ever. And remember, the anti-war movement has to be more than about one person. Rosa Parks couldn't do it by herself - she willed others to stand up.
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AnnieBW Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 01:58 PM
Response to Original message
181. I still stand with Cindy!
She deserves a break, especially from everyone calling her an "attention whore". (What a terrible thing to say!) Cindy, you have our love. Go relax for a while, but please remember that we still love you and need your strength. Casey would be very proud of you for what you've accomplished.
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DemDem07 Donating Member (207 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 02:00 PM
Response to Original message
182. You rock skinner
:yourock:
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cwydro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 02:11 PM
Response to Original message
184. kicking this again
Some of the other threads that have been started on this subject disgust me.
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chaska Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 02:15 PM
Response to Original message
186. I heart Cindy.
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cui bono Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 02:22 PM
Response to Original message
188. DON'T GIVE UP CINDY!!! =)
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MODemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 02:33 PM
Response to Original message
190. You put it so eloquently Mr. Allen
It was so hurtful to me to see Cindy become so turned off by the Democrats after their short time in
office. George Bush is the culprit here, and he never changes his mind because he doesn't have the
savvy to do so. Maybe Cindy will think it over, and come back into the fold. She was working way too
hard for what she truly believes; and it was the last straw for her indeed, when the Democrats didn't come through for us. We are still Democrats, fighting for the same cause, just taking a little different route.

To say the Democrats disappointed me, would be an understatement, but, truly, I sort of understand
what they did, and why they felt they had to do it. I hate this Iraq mess, and put the full blame on
the Bush Administration.

If I were in Cindy's shoes, and received a letter like the one you wrote, it would console me, and make me ready to keep up the fight.

Thanks again. O8) :toast: :thumbsup: :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug:
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pacalo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 02:33 PM
Response to Original message
191. Wonderful letter -- & eloquently stated!
I greatly respect & admire Cindy Sheehan & you have spoken for me, Skinner. Much thanks.
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spanone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 02:33 PM
Response to Original message
192. K&R
Edited on Tue May-29-07 02:33 PM by spanone
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derby378 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 02:33 PM
Response to Original message
193. Well said!
I hope Cindy is reading this...

:toast:
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snappyturtle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 02:36 PM
Response to Original message
194. Thank you so much for writing to Cindy. My husband and I
just love her. We love her for her down to earthness....she's tethered down to the basic things. She never used double speak. I actually cried when I heard she had decided to stop her efforts in with the anti-war movement. I feel like we've lost our dear mother hen....that is not an insult. She has a way of spreading her wings and encompassing us all into the fold. I cannot imagine how she garnered the strength after her loss of Casey. Hopefully, she will take much needed time for rest and get her strength back. We can honor her tremendous contribution by keeping the anti-war movement alive.
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FloridaJudy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 02:41 PM
Response to Original message
195. Thank you, Skinner
While we may sometimes disagree here on DU, we owe to to ourselves to keep the arguments civil. There's enough nastiness in the world: we don't need to manufacture more.

I hope Cindy has a chance to rest and heal from her efforts. The anti-war movement owes her gracious thanks for carrying on her tremendous struggle as long as she has. I may not have agreed with all of her politics or tactics, but I respect her as one who has always spoken her truth - sometimes against overwhelming resistance.

I also hope we'll see her back someday. Until then: well done, Cindy.

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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 02:51 PM
Response to Original message
199. Thank you, Skinner. Well said.
The criticism that Cindy Sheehan levels against the Democratic Party is mostly well-deserved. We are facing a major problem in the United States that threatens to destroy whatever element of democracy we ever enjoyed. The corporations have taken over, and we are living in a fascist state that controls our thoughts and behaviors in numerous ways. The Democratic Party has failed, overall, to turn the tide of fascism. The Republican Party, of course, is entirely sold to the corporations.

Many people in this country, including many who consider themselves Democrats, liberals, progressives, whatever, don't recognize the severity of this problem.

Cindy Sheehan recognizes the severity of the problem, and it has worn her out. It's been more than one person can bear. I hope that she gets some rest and then continues to fight for what is good.

In the meantime, the rest of us will either wake up and do something about this mess or simply give up.
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catgirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 02:55 PM
Response to Original message
201. It's terrible how a few ugly people can hurt someone like this

These comments crossed the line and they should have been removed.
Cindy is courageous and deserves to be treated like a hero.
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Disturbed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 03:10 PM
Response to Reply #201
207. Yes. Thank you.
Your letter speaks for me, as well.
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lebkuchen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 02:57 PM
Response to Original message
202. Social change has taken place in the US through mass movements
not off the backs of the few.

Unless the bulk of Americans start figuring out what's going on in the US and reacting by taking to the streets, as Cindy has, as Vietnam/Iraq/Afghanistan War vets did outside Katterbach Kaserne, Germany over Memorial Day, they will be learning the hard way, like the Germans did through two world wars.

Plenty of Americans living overseas have figured Bush out, and he scares the hell out of us. Americans stateside need to wake up and start making demands of their government.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/5/16/121227/007



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inspired_1 Donating Member (2 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 03:01 PM
Response to Original message
203. Dismayed like Cindy? Here is something we CAN do.
In a time when our nation cries out for leadership what do we do? ATTACK natural leaders who arise from tragic circumstance to demand attention by their very passion and sacrifice -- like Cindy Sheehan.

What is the root of this tendency to go after anyone who speaks out with the weight of reason and truth. Recently there was an article questioning if Mike Gravel would be another "Nader" for the Dems. THERE! Attack 2 for the price of one.

For those who understand, even a bit, of what Cindy has come to, what follows is a message of how to use all the political tools available to us:
--------
I think there IS something effective we can still do to send a powerful message to the Collapsing Dems. Here's the basic idea.


You Voted 'NO!' in November. They Didn't Listen.

Now You can Vote 'NO!' -- Again! This time with Your Feet -- and with Your Registration.

THIS Time They will Listen!

Switch2Green.org


The above site came into being to channel the rage into a useful political tactic that can have a real -- and unexpected -- impact.

The neo-cons use every tool in their arsenal to gain and keep power. Now we must use every available political tool to save the democratic underpinnings of America.

If 1-200,000 or more Dems switched their Registration to Green Party, suddenly war funding might see its last days, and impeachment could even go back on the table.

Let's take advantage of the Green Party's political party status and its public commitment to stopping this assault ON America (its Constitution, laws, people) by the current regime in Washington.

A switch to "Independent" is a meaningless gesture of pure frustration at this crucial time. In fact, Independents who want to show what they feel about the war should also Switch. A Green registration, on the other hand, has significance and carries as much weight as a vote!! Why, you ask? Because the registration ITSELF says far more about you and your politics and your desired destinations than any of the many candidates you may have voted for over the years. A Green Registration says:

  • No to this war agenda -- and funding
  • International negotiations in the Middle East
  • Impeachment of Bush & Cheney
  • Universal healthcare
  • Women's & workers' rights
  • A re-birth of democracy with REAL election reform!
  • A healthy sustainable planet...and more

In short, it says what nearly 70% of the American people want (and which has disappeared from the major parties' Platforms and Practices). Growing the Green Voice through registration, brings life to the silenced voices of that 70%!

Those registration numbers show up. Tell your representatives: We have moved to a party which sounds just like our hearts and minds and consciences. You cannot ignore this progressive constituency any longer!

We can put this Congress on notice.

We can "VOTE" with our Registrations! We can make our views known. It may be the ONLY chance you get to show your progressive credentials without being silenced. And those numbers SHOW UP, pointing to a growing progressive constituency that DEMANDS attention.

Free Speech Now blog and others support this idea. See what they say.

The Switch2Green.org site points out that outside pressure is likely to have more of an effect, than decades of wasted inside begging and pleading.

Switching -- and letting your representatives know what you have done (the site offers a way) -- can help. It can bring us together as a force.

People, of course, can vote anyway they want to, but this new GREEN Registration can do more than your vote!! This isnt hype. Just think about how much that November vote brought us...

These cowardly, pompous clowns in Congress have simply IGNORED the single greatest threat to our sovereignty: the Bush Administration, and have given them a pass on everything: crimes, negligence, torture -- and worse.

Check out the site. It's a start. Maybe even...a snowball.

I believe we all know that we must do whatever we can at this time. The nation's life is at stake.

Taking a stand -- any stand -- can loose forces unexpected in the current paradigm. We are frozen with Fear and Inaction. Around such an unexpected move by a sizable number of voters, new courage and leadership is bound to emerge, because suddenly there will be a new -- definable and quantifiable -- constituency whose positions are known, and which cannot be ignored.

By speaking out and taking action, we help thousands deal with this situation and know they are not alone. Now it is time to Do something together. Incredible! We are still suffering from the fearful, unsettling and fragmenting effects of the McCarthy years -- our Great American Purge.

Vote "No!" again (this time by registering Green). And this time, let's make it stick!
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pat_k Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 06:14 PM
Response to Reply #203
267. Holding up the threat of a serious primary challenge is FAR more threatening.
Edited on Tue May-29-07 06:14 PM by pat_k
. . .and there are credible, powerful candidates out there for the tapping.

In fact, perhaps Matt Gonzales, the Green candidate who naroowly lost the SF mayoral race a few years ago would consider running against Pelosi as a Democrat.
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samsingh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 03:01 PM
Response to Original message
204. Well said - Cindy has my support
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demobabe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 03:08 PM
Response to Original message
206. You, David Allen are one of the nicest human beings on the planet.
Really, you are a saint. Can't say that enough. And yet, here you are, having to publicly defend your discussion board - essentially because this is yet another haphazard action to possibly bring awareness to the anti-war movement or to Cindy Sheehan - at the DU's expense.

I've supported and promoted Cindy for a long time: we've filmed her, and I've posted her articles here.

I know she's been through a lot - I couldn't even begin to have any idea of how much pain she's felt losing her son.

I just can't.

I know she wants to stop the war, and I do, too... it's #1 in importance as far as I'm concerned.

But I have a problem with her taking aim at various groups when things don't go her way. She's mad at the Democrats. She's mad at the Democratic Underground. Both have given her a platform, contributions, and so much support, and she comes back essentially biting the hands that feed her. Weren't funds publicly raised for her here?

When she comes out publicly against the groups best suited to help her (regardless of how effective anyone may perceive their actions to be), it just serves to divide our side more and give further strength to the Republicans.

So she's resigning as the head of the Anti-war movement? I didn't know there was such a position or that one could apply for the job...

Heroes don't often ask for their positions, nor do they quit. Blaming it on the DU is a handy scapegoat. It's irresponsible.

I say go home, Cindy, and get some rest - before the world eats what's left of you. Come back another day when you're well rested and have extra energy to give back to the community - or don't - and go find peace and new happiness in your life. Look for solace on the spiritual level because the people and events of this world will fall short.

Ever notice how CNN never covers Cindy except when she decides to "quit?" It's because they can portray us how they want to: as quitters, confused, divided, and defeated.

This isn't what the anti-war movement or Democrats need at this point. If Cindy wanted to go home, fine, but there was really no need to have made a big announcement. I know she may have meant well on some level - maybe a last-ditch effort to bring awareness to ending the Iraq War, but the end result is damage to the movement she supported for so long. THAT'S a shame.

Go get some rest and take care of yourself, Cindy - we'll keep on without you. Just don't lob any more grenades at us.
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Duppers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-30-07 12:59 AM
Response to Reply #206
356. speaking of CNN, did anyone hear CNN trashing us (liberal "blogs")?
They were talking about Cindy's decision and how she was upset with a particular "blog". I told my husband that she was talking about us, DU, and about Skinner's letter.

This has not been a proud moment for us, imho.

Thanks again to Skinner for writing this thoughtful letter.


Btw, imho, people calling Cindy an attention whore should be banned.



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malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 03:16 PM
Response to Original message
209. Well said Skinner n/t
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Raksha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 03:17 PM
Response to Original message
210. K & R - Very well said, David. And thank you, Cindy. n/t
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Fleshdancer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 03:25 PM
Response to Original message
211. Cindy is on the Randi Rhodes show right now discussing DU among other things
I hope they both see this thread.
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LSparkle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 03:25 PM
Response to Original message
212. Thank you EVER so much, David
I'm likewise dismayed by Cindy's "resignation" and pray that she'll realize that there are PLENTY of us on D.U. who have supported her efforts and will continue to do so.
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racaulk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 03:27 PM
Response to Original message
213. You speak for me, Skinner. Thank you for posting this.
Thank you for all you have done, Mrs. Sheehan, your incredible efforts to bring about an end to this war are appreciated and will not be forgotten. Much love and peace to you always.

:pals:
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avrdream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 03:27 PM
Response to Original message
214. Thanks David
For saying what I feel.

Cindy's activism got mine started. Enough said.
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slingsam Donating Member (202 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 03:28 PM
Response to Original message
215. Thank you. Skinner
Can I still make a donation for this quarter? And....I applaud you for stand...and your statement.
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 03:29 PM
Response to Original message
217. Very nicely stated Skinner.
:toast:
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LSK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 03:30 PM
Response to Original message
218. Skinner you need to get this statement to Randi Rhodes
Or call into her show.
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mother earth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 03:35 PM
Response to Original message
219. A huge thank you to Cindy Sheehan!
Cindy has shown us all that one person can truly make a difference. She's been tireless and beyond brave. She truly speaks for all parents! Not one more young man or woman should die for this illegal war.

THANK YOU, CINDY!!! We love you and appreciate all you have done, you'll always be in our hearts and prayers with much love and gratitude! I've always understood that your stance was born out of love & knowing you were doing the right thing in your son's memory, you always spoke to this mother's heart. God bless you, Cindy!
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Nikki Stone1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 03:39 PM
Response to Original message
220. Cindy, so many of us support you!
We admire your courage and dedication. I am dismayed that you are leaving because you spoke for so many of us, but I understand why.

God bless you and thank you for all the sacrifices you have made.

Nikki
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Political_Junkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 03:41 PM
Response to Original message
221. beautiful.
thanks, Skinner
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jpgray Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 03:44 PM
Response to Original message
222. I understand why you wrote this, but I wish it weren't necessary
Cindy is beyond bizarre if she thinks a random posting on a message board is worth giving lots of attention. Similar comments could be found on many other liberal blogs--none of which doubtless have the support of the administrators or long-time members or contributors.
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Vidar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 03:44 PM
Response to Original message
223. Thank you Skinner. Cindy deserves our praise, nott our petty insults.
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jpgray Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 03:49 PM
Response to Reply #223
225. She doesn't deserve anything more than any other public figure
Edited on Tue May-29-07 03:49 PM by jpgray
You have to take the bad with the good. There's no personal tragedy that should make one immune from criticism when it concerns publicly expressed views and opinions. Certainly consideration for people is important even when being critical, but there's no reason to take a single random forum poster's comments so much to heart.
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jeff30997 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 03:48 PM
Response to Original message
224. "The vast majority of DU members support you and your efforts to bring an end to this terrible war"
And I'm part of this vast majority.You're such a great human being,Cindy,please don't blame DU

for a handful of extremists jerks.

- Jeff
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Hekate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 03:53 PM
Response to Original message
226. 258th Rec. Thank you, David. I'm glad I checked in today & read that. nt
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Uncle Joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 03:59 PM
Response to Original message
228. Thanks for the thread Skinner, and to Cindy Sheehan
you have my eternal gratitude for your service and your sacrifice as well. :patriot:

Kicked and recommended
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Totally Committed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 04:01 PM
Response to Original message
229. Thank you, Skinner.
And, most of all.... thank you, Cindy.

TC
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Miss Chybil Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 04:06 PM
Response to Original message
230. When the Dems won in November I was a bit upset with Sheehan and Code Pink, et.al.,
protesting them right out of the gate. Now, I see why they did. I have always respected Cindy for her sacrifice. What was said about her was inapropriate and I'm sorry she had to be hurt by it on top of what she's already been through. I hope she reconsiders her "resignation," but I understand it must be a horribly heavy load to be a public figure in addition having to grieve for her son. I wish her well, whatever she decides.
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mnhtnbb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 04:06 PM
Response to Original message
231. Thanks for writing this.
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november3rd Donating Member (653 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 04:06 PM
Response to Original message
232. Second
Thanks for getting this out, skinner. It was necessary because what you say is pretty true.

As far as Cyndi is concerned, we are a nation of critics and complainers and being a real leader is a thankless job in that kind of a group.

I will never forget her support for John Tasini in the NY State primary against H. Clinton, or her rousing speeches at the Pentagon and NYC protests against the war.

When nobody had the cajones to stand up to War BushCo, she camped out in Crawford and got in Bush's face!

She started a movement for a better, saner world where there was none.

God, the grief she must feel over losing her beloved son.

Thank you, Cyndi.

We can never repay you what we all owe. God bless you!

In our imperfect way, we offer gratitude, and what we hope will pass for love.
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puerco-bellies Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 04:07 PM
Response to Original message
233. Thank you Skinner, and thank you Cindy.
You are an inspiration, and a patriot.
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CelticWinter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 04:10 PM
Response to Original message
234. Thank you Cindy---
You have been an inspiration and have said that words to the world that I feel should have been said. I dont know your grief in losing a child, that pain is foreign to me, but when I see you on TV crying for your child I cry also.
I dont feel that we will have the answers to this war in our lifetime. Im sure the truth will be hidden well, even though we know that it is all in greed, history wont write it as such until all who are involved are gone. We have seen the writing on the wall many times but they seem to cover it with their graffiti, fooling those who control much of our lives.
I just want you to know that there are many people out here who support and admire you for the stand you took. If you are tired I understand that it is time to take care of yourself, but if you still have a hint of fight left--know that there are people out here to send you the strength and support to keep on fighting.
You shine a great light to all women, mothers and Americans Cindy, and that I thank you from the bottom of my heart. :-)
Take care and be safe.
CelticWinter
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graywarrior Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 04:19 PM
Response to Original message
235. I just don't know what to say.
Cindy did all she could to bring awareness to this ridiculous war, and there are definetly harsh people at DU. Of the thousands of DU members, it only takes one A-hole post to throw in a monkey wrench and screw up the mission.

I still admire what Skinner has done here and I hope Cindy gets some well deserved rest and realizes we consider her one of us here. If I had my way, the poster responsible would be forced to apologize in public for such a juvenile statement.
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DemExpat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 04:24 PM
Response to Original message
238. Great to see this post, Skinner,
Thanks to you and to Cindy for her sacrifice.

DemEx
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Bluerthanblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 04:30 PM
Response to Original message
239. so well said- thank you Skinner-.-- and Thank you Cindy.
we need more good examples of living peace.

:hug: :grouphug: :hug:

blu
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countingbluecars Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 04:33 PM
Response to Original message
241. I was really upset and disheartened
with DU yesterday. I am so glad you wrote this letter.
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Joanne98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 04:34 PM
Response to Original message
242. We love you Cindy. Take a vacation and think it over.....
You can be nice and rested up for August...
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bling bling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 04:40 PM
Response to Original message
243. Nice, Skinner.
You almost never fail to impress me.

That was absolutely the right thing to do. And well said, too.
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connecticut yankee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 04:42 PM
Response to Original message
244. Thanks, Skinner
You've eloquently put into words what so many of us feel.

I've often wondered how Cindy could keep going for as long as she did. Most of us would have been exhausted long ago. She fought a good fight.
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BlueIris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 04:54 PM
Response to Original message
247. K & R & bookmarked. And again, peace to Ms. Sheehan.
Edited on Tue May-29-07 04:55 PM by BlueIris
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arewenotdemo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 04:58 PM
Response to Original message
252. Thank you for writing her!
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Joe for Clark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 05:15 PM
Response to Original message
253. Thanks Skinner - I had no idea any of this was going on
until I turned on my car radio today -
My God -
I don't think deleting posts is generally a good idea - but you are absolutely right to do that. She has to know that 99% of us DO AGREE WITH HER.
And probably in the end the things she did will end up saving some poor kids lives - I heard those things on the radio and my heart sank thru the floor. And your post is very articulate Skinner.
Joe
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 05:19 PM
Response to Original message
254. Well said.
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mirrera Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 05:25 PM
Response to Original message
256. Thanks Skinner... you said it well! n/t
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jimmil Donating Member (235 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 05:26 PM
Response to Original message
258. Thank You Cindy
This is my first post ever to DU. It saddened me to read about Ms. Sheehan and I respect her decision. I am grateful Mr.Allen responded in an eloquent and heartfelt letter. As a Vietnam Vet, disabled in that war, and a veteran of the VVAW march on Washington, I appreciate Ms.Sheehan's efforts to help put an end to this tragic war. I morn for her son killed, I morn for all who have given their lives and their families. Ms. Sheehan has given many of us who had given up on sanity returning to this nation hope that we the people can end the killing. Thank you Ms. Sheehan and may you have peace.
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rosesaylavee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 05:37 PM
Response to Original message
261. Thank you for speaking for all of us on this.
I would hate to have her think that the majority of posters here do not support her valiant efforts on behalf of all of us... all of us are suffering through this horrific war but not all of us have the wherewithall to make a national statement such as she has. Her voice lent an air of authority to the peace movement and it gained momentum and recognition because of her sacrifices. She deserves some time off - but I hope she will return refreshed and renewed to battle again.
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johnaries Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 06:07 PM
Response to Original message
264. Beautifully written, thank you. And THANK YOU Cindy!
If anyone deserves a rest, it is you. Be proud of what you have accomplished, you have been an inspiration to all of us. We will continue the good fight, but we would not have come this far without you.

Thank you, again!
:patriot:
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nam78_two Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 06:08 PM
Response to Original message
265. K&R.nt
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JuniperLea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 06:11 PM
Response to Original message
266. Thanks for this, Skinner
I really needed to see it... I was beginning to feel I'd accidently logged in at FreeRepublic or something.





Cindy... Casey did NOT die in vain... he got a lot of butts up off the sofa!
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ReadTomPaine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 06:17 PM
Response to Original message
268. K&R #295 - Another home-run post, David.
You're batting them out of the park lately. Bravo.

:thumbsup:
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AwakeAtLast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 06:20 PM
Response to Original message
269. Thank you, Skinner!
I have watched this all unfold without much comment, but I will do so here. I don't think anyone can truly know what it must feel like to lose someone to this war. I came very close, and I will never be the same. The only thing separating my experience from Cindy's is about 6 ft. of trajectory. I will always support and follow anything Cindy Sheehan chooses to do because she has earned that right. I am so sorry she was hurt, but I hope your words will help her see the bigger picture (and end to this war). We all need to be united to accomplish that goal. Unfortunately we seem to be very divided right now.

Thank you for posting this!
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jesus_of_suburbia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 06:22 PM
Response to Original message
270. Thank you, David.. well said.
I wish Cindy all the best in her new quest.


I hope she can come back together with her family and begin to heal the hurt in her heart (and their hearts).


God bless Cindy (and I am not religious). Thank you for fighting the war.. I hope she finds peace at last.
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burythehatchet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 06:24 PM
Response to Original message
271. Attaboy. I cosign.
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David Zephyr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 06:24 PM
Response to Original message
272. Cindy, the DU cherishes your contribution to ending the war.
Skinner, thank you for posting what I'm sure 99% of us here at the DU feel which is total admiration for Cindy Sheehan.

And Cindy, if you see this thread from Skinner, please know in your heart that you are such a genuine hero to so many of us. My sister thinks you are one of the bravest citizens of all because you stood up to the murdering bully in the White House while bearing the greatest pain of losing your precious son, Casey. Casey became our brother, too because of your speaking up. His memory is a national treasure now.

Cindy, if you need to pull back, no one deserves it more than you. If you never spoke out again, you already have done more than millions ever have. And Cindy, our troops will be coming home now sooner than later and you had so much to do with that, changing one heart at a time in this country.

I don't know about the post here at the DU that you mention, but I'd like to bop the idiot's head that did anything to discourage your great heart. I love that heart of yours and I can tell you that we here at the DU love you and admire you greatly.
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puebloknot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 06:35 PM
Response to Original message
273. Good on 'ya, Skinner. Cindy is a national treasure!
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cornflake_31 Donating Member (88 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 06:44 PM
Response to Original message
275. K&R
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usregimechange Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 06:46 PM
Response to Original message
276. Wow, I was rec # 300!
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warrior1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 06:49 PM
Response to Original message
277. K&R
I love you Cindy.
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jarnocan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 06:52 PM
Response to Original message
279. another thank you Cindy petition from a peace and justice group in NC
http://www.petitiononline.com/peacemom/petition.html
We do not all have to agree on everything to work together for an obvious common good, of course :)
thanks!
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Terri S Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 06:54 PM
Response to Original message
280. Beautifully said, Skinner.
You most eloquently conveyed what I believe many of us feel. Thank you.
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kiteinthewind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 06:58 PM
Response to Original message
282. Thank you so much, Skinner. The hate I have seen spewed on this board the last few days is
so depressing. I have a hard time believing that liberals would go this far. I see that sort of hate as trademark for the freepers, so to see it here.... Thank you for reaching out to Cindy.
:loveya:
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Reterr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 07:00 PM
Response to Original message
283. k&r for Cindy and Skinner
"Democratic Underground is not like all those other blogs, where one person (or a small group of people) regularly sets the tone by articulating the "official" point of view. I sometimes share my opinions, but I only do so occasionally, and I don't think of myself as a blogger or pundit. I think of myself as more of a "referee" between different factions. As a discussion forum, we see our mission as different from that of a traditional blog. Rather than requiring that DUers champion a particular viewpoint, I believe our members are best served by permitting a (relatively) wide range of opinion. That includes many viewpoints that I disagree with, and the majority of our members disagree with. "

That is one of the things that rocks about DU :yourock:.
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PA Democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 07:01 PM
Response to Original message
284. Please add my thanks to the list.
Cindy Sheehan made tremendous sacrifices to move forward the anti-war cause. It's too easy for people who haven't walked a mile in her shoes to criticize, to second guess, or to be outright mean. But I doubt any of those folks have put it all on the line like Cindy has.

Thank you Cindy.
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HeeBGBz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 07:01 PM
Response to Original message
285. Thank you, Cindy
Thanks Skinner for this thread.
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sonias Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 07:07 PM
Response to Original message
287. You have my gratitude for everything you have done too
Cindy

The decision is yours alone and you know what you need to do. Just know that we appreciate everything you have done and Casey is proud of you too. That will never change.

Sonia
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Chomp Donating Member (602 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 07:15 PM
Response to Original message
290. Jesus, the DU choir in full voice
There are few more depressing sights in all of cyberspace.

I counted 2 dissenting voices. I mean, is that healthy?



(I express no opinion one way or the other on the substantive issue at question).



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Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 07:27 PM
Response to Original message
291. thank you Skinner
I'm a huge admirer of Ms. Sheehan and feel that while she does deserve a rest, I am dismayed that she feels beaten down and was shocked about the reference to DU.
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Rex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 07:30 PM
Response to Original message
292. Does Cindy post here?
If not, I recommend she register and get in GD so we can all talk! I know it wasn't Skinners fault or the mods OR the other admins - they do their job, so Cindy why don't you join us here and spark a little conversation with us!

I personally love your tenacity and would be proud to call you mom!
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dogindia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 07:31 PM
Response to Original message
293. kandr
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stillcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 07:34 PM
Response to Original message
294. thank you Skinner...
I am so happy I came upon this post.
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Duppers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 07:36 PM
Response to Original message
296. It's my sincere hope that Cindy reads your post, Skinner
I've always supported Cindy's position and her work and I understand her recent pain with our elected leaders.

Sadly, assholes are everywhere, even on DU.


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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 07:40 PM
Response to Original message
297. Your post is great,but after today I no longer feel DU is worth much.
Edited on Tue May-29-07 07:50 PM by Forkboy
This isn't a reflection on you personally Skinner,and I don't envy your position at all.But this place is way out of control.I know Swamp Rat got caught in the system and it isn't anyone's personal fault he got TS'ed....but the reason he got that way is still here.If you guys can't see something as blatant as that post than this place is way past jumping the shark.You simply could NOT ask for a more blatant example of what's gone wrong here if you BEGGED for it.

If saying this means I get tombstoned then so be it.You know I've been here a long time,and while I may be a big pain in the ass you know I've never been even close to what you're allowing here.I love the give and take as much as anyone,but I can go to AOL or Yahoo chat and find the exact same thing.To see DU reduced to that is beyond sad.We WERE better than that.


on edit - even Catwoman is upset...WTF?


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Pale Blue Dot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 07:53 PM
Response to Reply #297
301. As has been said elsewhere, SwampRat was NOT TS'd. He was caught in the spam filter.
He's back now.
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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 07:56 PM
Response to Reply #301
306. I said I understood it wasn't Admin's fault he was TS'ed.
But the root of the problem is still here.It's beyond plain to see what this poster in question has been doing all along.Anyone with a search function can see what I'm talking about.
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 08:00 PM
Response to Reply #306
309. The spam filter is a different thing. If you post too much too fast, it gets you. NT
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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 08:11 PM
Response to Reply #309
312. The root of the problem still exists.
Clip the branches and leave the root,and all that.

I do appreciate your explanation,but the problem is far deeper than what happened to Swamp Rat.
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salin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 08:28 PM
Response to Reply #309
316. I got caught in the spam filter within days of its debut
and was banned. Had just come inside to post in the winter and still had a heavy coat on -the sleeve rested on the enter key when I posted a post - and inadvertantly posted it multiple times within seconds (due to unawares leaning on the enter key) - it was cleared up quickly. All that said, reading this thread - although I have been offline for the majority of the past 72+ hours - what I do pick up is there is a bigger root issue beyond the spam filter. :-(
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Cornus Donating Member (720 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-30-07 12:53 AM
Response to Reply #297
355. Adding my thanks to Cindy for standing up against this immoral war. NT
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jaysunb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 07:43 PM
Response to Original message
298. Well done
Thanks Skinner :thumbsup:
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tlsmith1963 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 07:47 PM
Response to Original message
299. Thanks, Skinner
All day long, I have been thinking about what Cindy said. Even though my experiences have been different than hers (& less traumatic), I still think I know how she is feeling right now. I'm not really going to go into it, but I had an experience about 20 years ago which left me feeling like no one cared, & left me thinking it was all for nothing. It was the reason I finally ended up having to be treated for depression. At some point, you have to decide that it's time to take care of yourself. This is why I am not begging her to return at this point. I think she needs time to recover from what she has been through. I hope she will come back, but only when she is ready.

As for the people who criticized Cindy, you should be ashamed of yourselves. Be glad that you don't have to go through what she has to face every day. I expect this kind of cold-hearted behavior from Republicans, but Democrats? We should stand for something better. And if she wants to leave our party, so what? It's her life, & her decision. I'm disillusioned myself. I voted the way I did because I wanted the war to be ended, & for Bush and Cheney to be impeached. I didn't vote for people who just want to play games with Bush. I really wonder if the Democrats in Congress are profiting from the war, too. It would explain their odd behavior.

Anyway, this cold-hearted crap has to stop. It is eating this country alive like a cancer. And now it has made Cindy leave us. Are we proud of this? I'm not.
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Maestro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 07:50 PM
Response to Original message
300. Can't add any more.
Very well stated and I hope Cindy reads it.
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Catchawave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 07:53 PM
Response to Original message
302. Thank you Skinner, Godspeed Cindy n/t
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ldf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 07:54 PM
Response to Original message
303. david
you make me so proud.

let me add my thanks to cindy, AND to you.

cindy.. :hug:

david.. :thumbsup:
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SalmonChantedEvening Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 07:54 PM
Response to Original message
304. Thank you Skinner, I'm guessing we're even ;)
For thoughts and words that speak my mind, and make my day.

Bless you and bless Cindy.

:loveya:
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ismnotwasm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 08:00 PM
Response to Original message
308. Thank you Skinner!
And thank you Ms. Sheehan.

--Wherever your road takes you, you have my admiration and gratitude.
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inspired_1 Donating Member (2 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 08:06 PM
Response to Original message
311. Cindy and the world we are making
Cindy Sheehan is worth far more than most elected officials together. Have we gone so far off, that we cannot recognize the real thing when it shows up? Is America suffering Terminal Cognitive Dissonance?

Cindy did not leave the Democrats as much as the Democrats have left us all.

You may still have a "Democratic Underground", but hey, news flash! -- there is no Upstairs!

Natural leaders like Cindy Sheehan who speak for the underrepresented millions looking for leadership, and who exhibit no fear, have been told to move aside by Dem leaders who are stuck in the same place as usual -- or worse. Willingly or not, most have become enablers to corporate globalism, and owe their campaign financing, if not their souls, to those who steal our income, privacy, and representation.

When you have the so-called "opposition" party telling us all to go out there and register, knock on doors, and vote (the usual), but they WON'T denounce the policies that sell off our jobs, our resources, our security, our rights, our healthcare, our elections, and our kid's lives, they only serve to keep us tame and defenseless. In fact their fear to act while witnessing the destruction of our nation shows up on their sweaty, intimidated faces -- and THAT is the message they end up transmitting to would-be constituents. More fear. They compromise our ability and willingness to organize or to resist.

Cindy is merely the latest, most prominent casualty of that duplicitous policy.

This IS NOT "politics as usual." In case you have not noticed, the Right has long ago taken off the gloves, and there has been no politics as usual for quite some time now. That paradigm is currently dead.

This is The Assault ON America. Our Line in the Sand lies on Pennsylvania Avenue, not in Baghdad or Kabul. A good chunk of our "defense" team just went over to the other side. If you haven't figured that out yet, you ARE still part of the problem.

We are talking about what it will take to jolt people out of their daydream and into an understanding that everything we have ever stood for or believed in, including apple pie and Mom, has been hijacked and is for sale.

Cindy understood that and put her warmth, intelligence, heart and yes, her pain -- her whole life -- out there to help us organize a conscious resistance. Her critics -- what do they offer?

This is not simply about election cycles, even though we may still need to use them tactically. It is about building or reinforcing whatever institutions and thought systems necessary to resist this takeover. That is a tall order for this tame, comfortable and sheeplike society.

We need MORE Resistance Leadership, not less.

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Ilsa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 08:13 PM
Response to Original message
313. God(dess) Bless You, Cindy. I bet Casey is as proud as a son could be.
You have worked so hard and put up with so much crap. I don't blame you for taking a break, bowing out, whatever you want to do. You've earned plenty of respect, IMO. No telling how many lives you'e saved by raising consciousness of the futility of this war.
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Blue Belle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 08:27 PM
Response to Original message
315. Well said. I hope Cindy reads it.
I couldn't have said it any better myself.
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lukasahero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 08:29 PM
Response to Original message
317. Cindy still speaks for me
Just wanted to add my name to the list of people here voicing their support for Cindy's work and efforts. It seems to me all she ever wanted was for another young person not to die in this needless, senseless war. Hell yeah she speaks for me!
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Christa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 08:45 PM
Response to Original message
320. I want to add my gratitude
for what Cindy did in the midst of the most painful experience a parent can ever imagine.

Cindy, you are a great woman, an example for all of us who sit behind our computers and never DO anything - myself included.

I have only admiration for you.

C
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stevietheman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 08:54 PM
Response to Original message
321. I love you Cindy Sheehan
If you were almost anyone else, I might have lightly took issue with how you are taking your exit off this tough stage.

But you are Cindy Sheehan, America's Mom and America's Conscience, and you are worn and weary, as anyone in your position would naturally be.

I salute you Cindy, and I hope that your rest away from politics is a pleasant one. And if you should decide to return to the fray, I'm sure many will welcome you with open arms.

With great love and admiration,
Steve
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jenmarie Donating Member (258 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 08:59 PM
Response to Original message
324. You speak for me
Beautiful and eloquent Skinner. Thank you for taking the time to say it.

Blessings to you Cindy, and thank you for your tireless work to save us all from thugs in power. Rest up and take good care.

Hugs, jenmarie
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loyalkydem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 09:04 PM
Response to Reply #324
325. Skinner
Edited on Tue May-29-07 09:04 PM by loyalkydem
That was awesome. I hope someone tells her about this. This might lift her spirits.
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spindrifter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 09:38 PM
Response to Original message
330. Thank you, Cindy and thank you, Skinner.
Cindy, I am one of the old timers who remembers the Viet Nam war protests as a participant. Yes, those were the days when we stood against the government's bad decisions. We had teach-ins, marches that shut down freeways. We were tear-gassed. We escaped to Canada. We went into the woods and back waters to live apart from people who despised our viewpoint. Today the anti-war movement is substantially different. Thank you for your work over the past years on behalf of your country. I appreciate it, and I appreciate you.
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AnotherMother4Peace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 09:39 PM
Response to Original message
331. Cindy, thank you for your courage & inspiration. Your son would be so proud.
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Blue_Tires Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 09:49 PM
Response to Original message
332. truth...
kicked and recc'd
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Oldtimeralso Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 10:04 PM
Response to Original message
335. Cindy is a voice, the voice of a leader
but our effort needs millions of voices so the politicos can be hear an overwhelming ground swell of opposition to the illegal war. THIS TEENAGER OF THE 60'S MAY BE LAME AND CANNOT MARCH BUT HIS VOICE CAN STILL BE HEARD.
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peacetalksforall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 10:07 PM
Response to Original message
336. That was a perfect letter. I think you have a marvelous talent for
writing.

I thank you for writing to her.
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countmyvote4real Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 10:09 PM
Response to Original message
337. I thank you, Cindy.
And thank you, skinner for your thoughts.
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OregonBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 10:13 PM
Response to Original message
338. I met Cindy when she spoke in Napa, CA a couple of years ago and I have never met
a more sincere and dedicated person. I can only say, that I hope she will take some time and come back with an all new vigor and a righteous vengeance. We owe her a great deal and I am very sad that it was a member of DU that "broke the camel's back". I sincerely hope she reads every one of these posts and understands that the comment was not the opinion of the vast majority of DU but only of a few stupid piss ant Neanderthals!!
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Catamount Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 10:39 PM
Response to Original message
339. Thanks Skinner---one more K&R
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ooglymoogly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 10:43 PM
Response to Original message
340. INDEED!!!! ...and hear, hear.
and Cindy you have done way more than your share of the heavy lifting. Rest awhile and come back...the anti war movement needs a face (your face) and you have been one pure, decent, down to earth and honest face and we are soooo proud of you and I count myself as a part of the Anti War Movement.
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w4rma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 11:17 PM
Response to Original message
341. I fully and wholehartedly agree. Thank you, Cindy Sheehan, for your work. (nt)
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gordontron Donating Member (701 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 11:20 PM
Response to Original message
342. Well said
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southerncrone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 11:24 PM
Response to Original message
343. Class acts--both Skinner & Cindy Sheehan!
I certainly hope Cindy will reconsider her decision. But if she doesn't, who could blame her? She was the spark that ignited the firebrand against the Bush/Cheney war. She stood up to this ill-gotten war when no one else would. She has paid too big a price already. She has won the respect and admiration of countless American citizens, even if a few don't seem to like her. Most of us do.

Whatever Cindy decides, I will support her. She is already an American hero, & Casey is, too!
:patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot:
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Spiffarino Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 11:25 PM
Response to Original message
344. Take a long break and see how you feel, Cindy
You've poured more of your soul into the peace movement than anybody has since the 60s. One person can't do it all and you are still only one person.

When your titanic spirit begins to burst at the seams we'll be here welcoming your return. Until then, enjoy some personal peace for a while.

:hug:
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byronius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 11:41 PM
Response to Original message
345. She's the American Mom.
I also had the honor of hugging Cindy once, although I just extended my hand for a handshake -- nothin' doin'. I'm not an Auto-Hugger, but -- she felt like a real person to me. Tough, sensitive, fragile. Ethical. Deep knowledge of human lightness and darkness. Standard issue enlightened American Mom.

That's a Good Person, there. One in which the flaws make the soul shine even brighter.
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fortyfeetunder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-30-07 12:24 AM
Response to Original message
347. Thank you Skinner -- ITA
I regret a letter like this had to be written.

I hate to see DU branded as such for the actions of a few.

I think Cindy has worked tirelessly for so long in the name for stopping the war and it's time for the rest of us to help carry the torch for her, at least in Casey's name.

Hope to see her back after she rests for awhile!
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-30-07 12:29 AM
Response to Original message
348. Thanks skinner
and I will say this only once

She may need a break... as in a real break.

We all need them from time to time, but she has been far more instense than any of us

To those who just critize try to walk in her shoes or the shoes of any who have had skin in the game

I will say what most don't want to hear, the only time American Idol will no longer matter is when we have a draft
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farmboxer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-30-07 12:40 AM
Response to Original message
349. I Like Cindy Sheehan. She Lost Her Son
in Bush's oil war and it must be a terrible feeling. I know others who have lost their loved ones in this unjust war, it's so very sad. I wish her well.
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donheld Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-30-07 12:46 AM
Response to Original message
351. Thank you and well said.
Cindy we (most of us) love you and the work you've done.
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Roxy66 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-30-07 12:49 AM
Response to Original message
352. Thank you Cindy....you are an inspiration to all
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snot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-30-07 12:50 AM
Response to Original message
353. Want to add one more vote of thanks to Cindy;
Edited on Wed May-30-07 12:53 AM by snot
a lot of us feel at least somewhat the way you may feel now.

In any event, you were probably the crucial person in turning the tide of public opinion against the war, and for that even if for nothing else, you will go down in history as someone who made a huge contribution toward making the world better.

You did someone no one else seemed able to do. You were that unique person who had suffered the ultimate loss while living to talk about it; and you were able to talk about it in a way that combined a mother's intense love with the wisdom of Thoreau.

Pls take care of yourself. Love to you, from a lot of people.
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Onceuponalife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-30-07 12:51 AM
Response to Original message
354. In solidarity with Cindy
I'm sure you gave this great thought, Cindy. I, too, left the Democratic Party in 1998. I've been waiting since then for them to jump out of the pocket of Corporate America. You gotta do what you gotta do and I'll continue to support you in whatever you choose to do.
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Decruiter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-30-07 01:41 AM
Response to Original message
357. Thank you Mr. Allen. You said it all so well.
Cindy, please listen. Go home, take refuge, find peace, then come back refreshed and renewed.

Thank you David.

Peace

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BigBearJohn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-30-07 01:47 AM
Response to Original message
358. Cindy, I love you. It's so easy for other to criticize you when they haven't done a fucking thing
to change the world. Hold your head up high.
You are a supreme hero in my eyes. You make
your son proud. If I were your son, my heart
would be bursting with pride to have such a
courageous mother who speaks the truth, and
does everything in her power to make a difference
in a world that is too often cold and unfeeling.

How many people in this country can say the
same thing? How many people have gone to
the streets to make a stand for their country
and their children at a dire cost to their
own lives?

Again, Cindy, I love you and wish I could
be half the person you are. As it stands,
I could barely shine your shoes.

Whatever decision you finally make, I know
it will be the right one.

I believe in YOU!

Love,
John
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krispos42 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-30-07 03:35 AM
Response to Original message
360. 360th Rec... a full circle... wow
Edited on Wed May-30-07 03:36 AM by krispos42
Cindy is super-popular and Skinner's a pretty good wordsmith! So I'll just echo Skinner here and work on a LTTE about this.

<on edit: 360th reply, too! Sweetness!>
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mia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-30-07 04:52 AM
Response to Original message
361. Thank you Cindy for all that you did to bring out the truth.
Thank you, Skinner, for posting this.
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Azathoth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-30-07 05:53 AM
Response to Original message
362. Thank you Cindy! n/t
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NeoGreen Donating Member (299 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-30-07 06:55 AM
Response to Original message
363. 365th Vote to Rec (full circle) n/t
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NastyDiaper Donating Member (806 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-30-07 08:37 AM
Response to Original message
366. Kristinn Taylor, spokesman for FreeRepublic.com,..
Edited on Wed May-30-07 08:42 AM by NastyDiaper
Kristinn Taylor, spokesman for FreeRepublic.com, which has held pro-troop rallies and counterprotests of anti-war demonstrations, said dwindling crowds at Sheehan's Crawford protests since her initial vigil may have led to her decision. But he also said he hopes she will now be able to heal.

"Her politics have hurt a lot of people, including the troops and their families, but most of us who support the war on terror understand she is hurt very deeply," Taylor said Tuesday. Sheehan said she sacrificed a 29-year marriage and endured threats to put all her energy into stopping the war.


Cindy was on my front page paper, her KOS 'Goodbye' comments were highlighted. I already knew the story before the AP writer was even told to write about it. But I found it outright haunting that the writer would go to Kristinn Taylor. Rather than David Allen. WTF is a blog 'spoksman' anyway.

So the Free Republic ends up delivering the Eulogy for the AP on Cindy's peace movement. Sad in so many ways.

Randomly chosen AP google: http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/0530iraq-sheehan...


Ed. I probably should have posted to:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
500 posts and I still get lost in the flow here . :hangover:
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Mr. Jinx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-30-07 09:11 AM
Response to Original message
367. Thank you, Skinner
This was a fine message- I hope that it gets to Cindy.
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Lil Missy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-30-07 10:56 AM
Response to Original message
368. Thank you Skinner. Cindy has my full support
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Aristus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-30-07 02:13 PM
Response to Original message
374. Thank you, Skinner. I want to add my love for Cindy.
Thank you, Cindy, for all you have done for the peace movement. We love you.
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Lost4words Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-30-07 02:42 PM
Response to Original message
376. Thank You Skinner, Great Letter and exactly how I feel.
I have the greatest respect for Cindy and I believe that her actions have opened many eyes!

I was sorry to hear her announcement.

Later :hi: 8643
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SCRUBDASHRUB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-30-07 02:53 PM
Response to Reply #376
377. What Skinner said.
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actioncenter Donating Member (1 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-30-07 07:29 PM
Response to Original message
378. Please sign this Thank You Cindy Sheehan petition
Please sign this Thank You Cindy Sheehan petition at http://www.petitiononline.com/peacemom

Thank you Cindy for all you have done to bring peace & justice to this world!

When your son Casey was killed in the illegal Iraq War you took a strong stand to bring it to an end. You actually camped outside of Bush's house & jump started the whole movement.

We organized Camp Casey's all across the country in support of your courageous action.

We support you in whatever decision you make regarding the "peace movement" but we want you to know we love you and appreciate everything you have done!

You have been a tremendous inspiration to everyone truly seeking a world of peace with justice.

You are a real American hero!

Please sign this Thank You Cindy Sheehan petition at http://www.petitiononline.com/peacemom
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mogster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-31-07 11:20 AM
Response to Original message
382. Kick this!
That was a splendid post :-)
I wrote a blog post back home comparing Ms. Sheehan with the Russian journo Politskovskaya, an ardent critic of the war in Chechnya who was shot down by unknown men in her doorway. It is of course differences between Ms. Sheehan and Ms. Politskovskaya, both in their destinies and their reasons for getting involved, but one thing Politskovskaya said made me think. In an interview she said that more than 70% of the response back home was negative, and a lot of it threatening.
Being a high profile figure taking a stand against the mainstream view will put you in focus among those that want your voice silenced, one way or the other. (Mainstream is here defined as the official view promoted by mass media and government, not necessarily the opinion of the majority of the population) The frustration and personal cost for such a person, the way they feel desecrated by their own people for just saying what they do (and in Ms. Sheehan's case; because the losses they have suffered), must make each day that goes a little more difficult to endure. The continued arrests, the harrassment by your own government. The slander and campaigning against you by anonymous people, often in the disguise of so-called 'fair criticism' of your political opinions.
'Does Cindy serve the liberal movement any longer?'
The mere question suggests not, and if you are already sacrificing most of your life to bring about change, the insult must be staggering. Internet posting comes cheap, we all know that. It can contain nuggets of gold, but also veiled threats or slander to make your struggle go uphill.
I don't know if Ms. Sheehan read this, but if you do; you are a great inspiration and a marvellous woman. Keep up the anti-war work or do something else - any way you choose, it will be interesting to follow your life from afar. You have started something, a path to change, that can never be taken away from you. I am proud that my name was on a poster at Camp Casey.
I am not very well trained in politics and have learned a great deal from both you and the DU. One thing we often forget is to tell the people around us that their sacrifice means something, that they are doing the right thing and that we care how they are doing. It is in some ways taken for granted that they'll go on, and there are so many other things to do that seems more important, that get's the forefront.
Kudos to Cindy and David, both persons involved thru different ways in bringing about the change so sorely needed.
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PATRICK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-01-07 01:37 PM
Response to Original message
383. If we don't rise
above the cat and dog fighting that breaks out among people frustrated that their objectives are blocked we will fall into that which we hate and fear the most. It is the old united we stand argument. We must support and be supportive of good people. That goes for the disappointing Dems and the disillusioned public figures championing extremely critical causes. People talk about the old America. I for one don't want to see it back, the hate scams, the hypocritical pillorying, the false sense of superior satsiafaction, the hidden apartheid, the dull and craven calacultation built into the political process that nonsenically waves banners of absolute enthusiasm and fantasy.

When this Congress was being formed in the choice of candidates, "pragmatically" putting Sherrod Brown above a charismatic newbie anti-war figurewe knew across the board what this would really mean once the voting got started on the Iraq agenda. It was carved into hearts of stone and political advice as outdated as the hula hoop. Without a progressive purge of the party we were most likely to get exactly the result that has "shocked" so many. We now have a new sort of progressive caucus that can share its miseries with the black caucus(which did not exist in my day).

The case of Cindy Sheehan was always an honest case of a person not called or impassioned by party. The anti-war cause has been splintered and sorely lacking in all but token Democratic party support. However, one should not feel too excluded. Many top Democrats can't even imagine how to speak out or protect themselves from multiple theft of their own elections resulting in a fractured, dinunited voting reform movement as well. MLK needed the party badly and it came through until it fell into the gaping Vietnam trap. Many other reformers and protestors got tepid, then conditioned, then impressive then vanished support over several Dem majority drives. Each has had a startling effect on raising the party above a party of raw power, which the GOP descended too like Lucifer on speed, to something quite new. JFK spoke of trajectories and the real bullet of democracy and justice has not lost its momentum. neither has it instantly hit its target or even speeded up, despite the daily deaths of soldiers.

During the long years of Vietnam, the bodies piled up ten times more with greater conflict of a diivided mind. Now what divides the nation is known and what the facts are can be shared beyond the forced disinegenuous corporate forums. What is left of the survivor establishment that naively promotes a corporate utopia will always attempt to thrive in the energies of true democratic reform and energy. They will never get it, nor the hatred that many of their own donors and advisers have toward them becuas ethe foils to the GOP surprisingly own more real votes than ever among the TV force fed masses.

Yet each moment, each person we think to unite once and for all to end all of the garbage, cannot be disconnected from everything like an instant aescape or cure-all. Were the Bush people, each and every crony and crook to vanish overnight, we would be left with the sdame vulnerability, failings, wounds and openings to worse incursions and infections as before. Were the Dems to stand up and shout with united bravery as if it were a test like Pearl Harbor or a challenge like the Spanish Assembly being assaulted by the military coup there is always the next workday. If we want to remove the inertia, the tendencies to move toward the spin of power and money and not the real people, there is a lot of possible work to do in the Democratic party.

Another possiblity which I have lived through many times in the "gold old days" was for principled people not to back each other and enable the universally detested villains to cheat and divide and "win" as a final result. 1968. 1972. Carping over Nader or MLK the peace activist. There is a line the GOP dares not cross in tearing at each other for power. That line has to do with losing the haithtin legitimacy at the polls they must maintain with lies. The majority thinks it can squander its illusory power with indignation, purity, fights for the center and left and never ever face the lies and cheating and the great anti-democratic pressures and warped national policies that keep them suppressed in those amusing illusions.

Many people posting here, and Sheehan was not necessarily a lifelong Democrat in a family tradition of the same, have felt the exact same outrage and disappointment and actual emnity toward the party in its various incarnations through the decades. Only the rabid RW profited from all of that vital awakening and idealism and it has set itself the task of maintaining that power through the worst exxamples that human history can instruct. Third parties have not even flourished in the gaping fissures of irrationality. If we were to get the Congress that we could best hope for and the president we want in 2008, I could write a disheartening laundry list of how far we MUST go yet before we get all warm and glowy about an America that has never really existed or attained itself except in those brief illusions
and has so quickly lost once it falsely believed it had arrived and fulfilled its destiny. That includes the Dems losing their unity and stomach after WWII where the unpunished enablers of Hitler have gone on to rule America with the tyrant's hand while both major parties strut stupidly through the ruins of their own pretensions.

The choice may someday be, if and when the party building of the Democrats has gone as far as it can and many reforms are enacted, that third parties expressing more progressive fire and rationality can thrive. This handicapped horse today though is partly what we can make it to be and only as such will it win for democracy as well as itself. Meanwhile there is simply no need to dump on each other or not sympathize with those genuinely scandalized by moral failures. We have too much to do to further the goals of all good people, the whole shoddy rabble, becuase even the dissolute crtiminal class is rreasonably united against us out of its own narrow necessity. Illusion and "triumph" will always have its force, but the weight of human frailty is gravity for everyone. You can only defy that gravity with hope and compassion. (Which I will need in good measure because the spell checker isn't working.)
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nedbal Donating Member (675 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-05-07 03:09 PM
Response to Original message
384. Cindy stood up to Bush and told the truth about his war... the trolls here were allowed to run free
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