Texas school board member tells parents to "kiss my butt" over religious class.

Texas folks, not picking on you....promise. I am proud of your efforts to rid yourselves of Speaker Craddick. I watched part of that battle on line the other night...it was great. But as a retired teacher, I find this interesting and scary. It is going on here as well.

But since tough guy Chuck Norris is supporting this class as well, it just gets more and more interesting. "Kiss my butt"?

From Right Wing Watch at PFAW...amazing story.

Texas School District Official: 'Take That You Dang Heathens'

L.V. “Butch” Foreman, a member of the Ector County school board in Odessa, Texas, has three words for parents who say the district’s Bible course crosses the line: “kiss my butt.” Said Foreman



The ACLU has filed a lawsuit over this. The program is based on views from Jesse Helms, Tony Perkings, and has the support of Chuck Norris.The ACLU claims it is like teaching a Sunday School Class right in the school room. It does not present the Bible objectively, but teaches it as history.

More about Chuck Norris involvement.

Unbeatable Martial-Arts Thespian Lends Fist to Bible-in-Schools Campaign



See, even a Florida Court held it in violation. This must be something they are trying in different states. It is one battle after the other.

was strictly about religious studies -- that is, how did religion develop? What are the tenets of the major religions? What is atheism? I took a philosophy course in college that took this approach. I learned a lot but it was also the turning point of me finally realizing that I was an atheist. The course didn't "convert" me -- just helped me clarify what I had been feeling since I was a child.

But a bible study class? My children are all out of school. The dog I have in this hunt is that my tax dollars are going to pay for the promotion of a particular kind of religion. This is just plain wrong!

I think all religions should be taught side by side. There was be so much more understanding of each other.

Why not teach reading, writing, math, history, science, etc. in school and teach the myths in their OWN buildings...their unfairly tax exempt buildings. Teach real stuff in school.

Lee a Disgusted Texan

It teaches them side and side and gives an oversight one does not get in church.

One year I taught, we did have a chance to cover the the various religions and their texts briefly. The kids loved it and it promoted understanding.

I have a problem with them teaching it as a Truth. If it was a study of Mythology or at least as a "Iffy"...<g>...I could handle it but teaching religion as a Truth in public school...I don't like it.

Lee

Should be taught along with others.

oh it isn't? Nevermind.

Or real science

it's part of the State.

If you think religion isn't real enough to have a major influence on U.S. government, laws, and culture, you haven't been paying attention. Whether the belief system itself is valid or not, the teaching and practicing of various beliefs are real, and those belief systems significantly impact U.S. politics.

With that kind of power in the mix, it is a good thing for people to be educated about religions.

Not to be indoctrinated in school, of course. Comparative religion studies have nothing to do with teaching the practice of religion, and everything to do with understanding the religions practiced around us.

though I'm, at most, agnostic. Seeing many different religions compared side by side really made it so much clearer how most of them are related and interconnected. And made it seem that much more pathetic that people actually fight wars over it.

"Seeing many different religions compared side by side really made it so much clearer how most of them are related and interconnected".

That's sacrilege to christians because they KNOW their's is the "one true religion" and that all others are baseless. They don't want to discover that their religion was cherry-picked from previous religions. Their's is The Original and all the events in the bible happened ONLY to their religious figures and only as they say it happened. No other interpretation will be tolerated.

If it wasn't for the Emperor Constantine, who was trying to consolidate and increase his OWN power in Rome, the christian religion would probably remain a splintered and toothless rag-tag group of separate mini-religions. It's amazing to me how ignorant most self-described christians are about the history of their own religion. They have no idea HOW their religion was born, how it evolved (ooh, sorry, was "intelligently designed" ) or anything else about their "one true" religion. I guess the bible's first lesson covers that though, "do not eat from the tree of knowledge". Remain ignorant, don't ask questions, just believe what we tell you and everything will be ALRIGHT! People not intellectually curious enough to study the origins of their religion drive me crazy. Blind faith and the acceptance of ridiculous myths as fact drive me up a wall. To not ask, "why?", is the biggest sin in my book: a book that has been thoroughly researched, I may add.

Teaching this in our schools as factual history is like teaching that Santa Claus was an actual historical figure and that "The Night Before Christmas" is a true historical event.

I'm an atheist (if you couldn't tell). If people want to believe religious dogma that's their prerogative. But to TEACH it as FACT in our schools is WRONG. That's why they have tax-exempt churches (another subject that makes my blood boil). The rabid-religious-right is constantly trying to blur the line between church and state and it's time to make that line TOTALLY CLEAR to them. I hope the ACLU smacks the crap out of them but with Bush's hand-picked Holy Supreme Court I doubt it. An age of darkness is settling upon our land and I find it quite disturbing. Extremely disturbing.

I agree with every word. I wouldn't say I'm an aetheist because I just have a feeling that there is some kind of universal force, but organized religion holds no interest for me beyond its historical/sociological impact. I don't hold it against anyone if they find comfort and hope in religion, but following anything or anyone blindly is a recipe for disaster.

You said a lot with just a few words. Summed up my perception of it precisely.

That's kind of you to say.

This is a very interesting thread.

Pass the ganja please.

and have been since 1990. In their delusional view they must proselytize children in school with their divine hatred in order to keep their majority of delusional psychotics. These lunatics want not just complete domination of the USA but world domination.

At least, not today.

What's crazy is that the Lege is trying to force public school systems to offer this class. They're coming pretty close to it. It's one thing to offer a general studies religion class - where all religions are covered, but to concentrate on just one, well, used to be that was unconstitutional.

Excuse me, Mr Foreman?

You're bleeding irony, Butch.

what bullshit it really is.

Bottom feeders at the ACLU can do .. well you guess.

fortunately. Could have been worse.....from happy Floridian (not transplant)

The rest of us just get by.

Get happy.

where they learn that the world is 6000 years old and all the animals were made at the same time and the Easter Bunny's made of chocolate and God is good but just has a rotten sense of humor?

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

Just ask your parents.

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! That's about the most fucking funny thing I've read in a long time.

"Thank God for Chuck Norris"

Nope, I'd say the funky and ironic sounding "Thank God for Chuck Norris" will be with us for a long, long time.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

has made him a great man

Thank God for Chuck Norris!



Sometimes they're a riot.

Thank God For Jane Foda - wait a minute, forget it. Ok, thank God for Ted Kenedy. No wait, forget it, Thank God for Sandy Burger, No wait forget that too, Thank God for Bill and Hillary (and Monica), foget that too, none of that works either.

oops again.

RimJob doesn't offer a spell checker, does he? Because you've obviously never used one.

Enjoy the graphic at the top of every page. At least that way you'll have one thing to do in life.

Only use SC when it si imporunt. Whuts a graphic?

That they found of you and the farm animals.

Enjoying your mama's basement? Does she know about your Chuck Norris fetish?

I mean cheap shot. Your cheeseball insult cracks me up.

You actually had a date once. In a barn, true, but still... Quite an accomplishment for someone with no real life.

Realy, you seem to be quite knowledgeable in farm life. In fact, I will bet you were there checking out the piglets born to see which of them looked like you. Still funny? I know.

It's fun to watch the thread keep floating to the top. Yes, "realy," it is.

Seek help. Try to stay away from the FFA, though. And Chuck Norris. Too much temptation for you.

...that your opinion matters. You speak with no authority, no truth or basis - only insults. Hey but, "I will ride herd on them mispellers, I'll show them... I'll show them not to mess with?

You'll be in big trouble if it passes.

C'mon, now. Another big to the top of the threads.

Family values. Tsk, tsk.

Geez, it's enough for you to butcher the English language, do you have to f*ck up Spanish too?

I am so glad the moderators did not delete this subthread. This is the funniest damn thing I've read in a long time! Thank God for Chuck Norris!

Hekate

All, , don't you know. It's using another alias in the thread now. 'Cause it's clever. Or something.

got nobody to talk to, do you?

"However, fans of the First Amendment should be advised that Norris has not lost a fight since 1968."

Out of all the people in the world to support a cause, Chuck Norris.

Now I feel safe in saying my new nickname for Bush:
Walker, Texas Dumbass.

More like bitterfloridian.

More like bitterfloridian.

You are a nervy one.

That's why I sincerely posted a picture of Norris.

One finger Karate.

His hair piece however, is 0 for 32.

...and you didn't use the Sarcasm emoticon. If you mean what you said, you are in the wrong place. Go read the rules. Posting as a conservative is actually against the rules.

Lee

Of course it doesn't look like it's potty trained, so it'll have to stay outside, but damn "Thank God for Chuck Norris" that can stay.

I haven't heard anything that funny...in a ludicrous way...in a long, long time.

You twisted my arm you know...<g>
Lee

http://www.ultimateshowdown.org/

... as a way of resolving conflicts. A real christian role-model, ol' Chuck is! Quite a bible scholar, too.

And his fans... why, what a classy bunch they must be. Did they choose you to come and spread the Good News among us ACLU-lovin' bottom feeders? or did you volunteer your services as Soon-to-be-Tombstoned Shit-Head of the Day?

god is in serious trouble.

Chuck Norris IS a joke. A terrible actor (why does the rabid-right only have moronic 'C' list actors as heroes?) who's only claim to fame is being able to kick the crap out of people. Small, weak people.

Yeah, if old Chuck is the best god can do for a "christian soldier" he better start praying for a miracle of his own.

Ok, it's only a ROUGH interpretation of the Biblical passage.

fighting them "over there" -

Marrying Female Captives

(10) "When you go out to war against your enemies, and the LORD your God gives them into your hand and you take them captive, (11) and you see among the captives a beautiful woman, and you desire to take her to be your wife, (12) and you bring her home to your house, she shall shave her head and pare her nails. (13) And she shall take off the clothes in which she was captured and shall remain in your house and lament her father and her mother a full month. After that you may go in to her and be her husband, and she shall be your wife. (14) But if you no longer delight in her, you shall let her go where she wants. But you shall not sell her for money, nor shall you treat her as a slave, since you have humiliated her.

Obviously a few details need to be worked out here, but I think this would be a great recruitment tool. Though I'm not quite sure about verse 13, maybe Chuck can answer this one for me - is the captive provided clothing to change into, or does she basically just sit around naked and bald-headed but well manicured for a month? And what status would Tom Tancredo assign her if she failed to delight her captor, would she be an illegal alien at this point?

"And when he had made a scourge of small cords, he drove them all out of the temple, and the sheep, and the oxen; and poured out the changers' money, and overthrew the tables;" John 2:15

(To be fair, newer translations change the wording and alter the punctuation, resulting in a Jesus who only whipped animals and not people, but, again to be fair, I think modern translations are mostly apologetic bullshit, too)

I do. And what are they gonna do when all the other religions demand equal time???

Church of Satan anyone??????

Good call. It says the ACLU is doing something....
Lee

...but actually I've been following this story for a while now. One of my fav blogs is In The Pink Texas and they rake them Texas legislators over tremendously hot coals.... like.... like... Texans!

And I also posted an article on this travesty earlier this month. I knew when it was still in committee that if it passed, the ACLU would be all over this thing like a cheap suit. The Texas legislature is presently in freefall from what I can gather. And it'll be interesting to see what's left in the rubble when they're done....

Twenty miles from the "hometown" of G.H.W. Bush et al — where the only thing more important than high school football is god. (Permian HS in Odessa was the basis for the book, movie and teevee series, "Friday Night Lights.")

He usually tries to hump woman's leg, so she's not too fond of him.

I don't get it.

Laugh damn you! LAUGH!

"Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read."

She tells me she does her washing in Tide, and I said 'Why do you do your washing in Tide?', and she said 'It too damn cold outtide.'

Good thing my own sense of humor is MUCH too sophisticated to go that route!

... know when to hold 'em, know when to fold 'em...

No, that's not it. But now I've got that song stuck in my head. Thanks a lot!

Hekate

she's not a big fan mixing school with either religion or the military. She went off on my PE teacher when I was in high school who brought a military "friend" in to talk us into enlisting. It wasn't pretty.

http://www.chucknorris.com/html/christian.aspx

Check out the: "Bells of Innocence."

http://www.ultimateshowdown.org/

Mr. Rogers!

on his website... I bet its a great tax write-off!

we're obliged to pretend that this isn't a forced religion class - until it actually becomes one.
The first incident of religion as history will blow it out of the water.
But of course by then they will have found a way to divert the funding for it irretrievably into a 'Con crony pocket somewhere.

When I was in high school they taught abnormal psychology as an elective. I imagine that might piss off some religious groups, if kids didn’t like it or weren’t interested in it they didn’t take the class. I see no harm in this. Let kids study what they want. If that is the bible then at least they are reading.

"Because religious belief, or non-belief, is such an important part of every
person's life, freedom of religion affects every individual.State churches
that use government power to support themselves and force their views on
persons of other faiths undermine all our civil rights. Moreover, state
support of the church tends to make the clergy unresponsive to the people
and leads to corruption within religion. Erecting the "wall of separation
between church and state," therefore, is absolutely essential in a free
society.'

Thomas Jefferson, speech, 1808
3rd president of US (1743 - 1826)

Elective does not matter in a case like this. Sorry, it does not.

It should not be taught as history.

A lot of things that aren’t "fact" are taught in school. Kids are taught all sorts of things in and out of school and most of them grow up and start making there own choices about what they do and don't believe. I completely believe and stand behind separation of church and state. But abnormal psychology isn't fact and it was taught that way, I don't see an up roar about that. You can pick your elective course in high school. I picked pottery and band some people would pick religious studies. That isn't crossing the line of church and state in my mind.

Sorry. I was raised Christian, but I want it taught in the home and church not school.

Religious studies include all religions. Study up on the links I posted above.

They are proposing to teach only one religion. How is that even fair to all children? I may be agnostic but by god, if my child's school is going to teach religion, they better teach them all.

I once got into it with a woman about school prayer. She was for it. I was not. I asked her: "Which god will the children pray to?"

Also, I would like to know your theory on why abnormal psychology is not fact?

You’re kidding right? The whole reason in my mind why it's acceptable is because it's an optional course. If all kids where forced to take a class where the bible was taught as fact I would be pissed off to, but that isn't what is happing.

I had an elective class in high school which studied homosexuals thru out history. In that class I was taught that being a homosexual was completely natural. I know there are a lot of people out there who wouldn't agree with that but it was taught anyway, and because you could elect to take the course or not people where okay with it. I think we should extend the same curtsey to the other side.

Your right abnormal psychology in and of its self is a fact but a lot of the conditions and treatments in the study aren’t necessarily scientific fact, far from it in some cases.

I don't understand. The course we speak of on the Bible is teaching that only Christianity as history...the other is not.

I'm comparing them because they are both classes that teach theory as fact.

.

you've got your abnormal psychology right there. I demand equal time for the FSM.

Are you saying that it's okay for a public school to offer an elective class on only one religion? Which religion would that be?

Why not? Have only one, have dozens, and have classes for what ever there is a desire to learn about. It's school after all. If there is enough demand for a class and you can find someone to teach it then go ahead. As long as the students are picking what they are interested in and the fundamentals aren’t being ignored why not?

They are only offering one class on one religion. They aren't offering to teach several classes on several religions. Just the one. Guess which one?

I understand people not being happy about it, but there are a lot of things taught in school that people aren’t happy about. I think as long as it's optional there is no harm in it. If there was a big push for Hinduism to be taught and the school district said no then you would have a point.

"The Bible said it, I believe it, that settles it."

I was raised like that. You just can't argue with people who are right all the time because they are Christians.

I'm not religious at all. You don't have to be Christen to be a stubborn asshole, that's just me.

I don't like the idea of a bible class being taught in school, but I don't think its fundamental wrong. I looked more into the program and I can't say it's anything I would want to sit thru, but as long as there teaching other history courses along side it I don't really see the harm.

You say you're not religious but yet you claim the story of christianty is "history"?

So, how will that work? Will they poll the students to find out thier relgious affiliation? You do realize that this isn't what's being proposed don't you? There will be no "pick the most popular" vote? The Texas legislature has already made a choice, leaving out thousands of children because they don't follow the most popular religion. How on earth can you think that is a responsible use of the taxpayer's money?

of religion - and has been taken to include the appearance of endorsement of religion.

Government and its agencies - including public schools - must practice religious neutrality.

LEAVE RELIGIOUS CRAP OUT OF SCHOOLS

go to church.

But you probably know that.

THAT'S where religion should be taught. Would you want sex education being taught in Sunday school, even as an elective? Oh, that's right.....there AREN'T any "electives" in Sunday school. Only one narrow point of view is allowed to be taught. Wonder why that is?

Or a "Counter-Bible Class" that states it is all a bunch of hooey using texts from other faiths and non-believers. Allow that class, and I'll support your position.

LOL

The government can't establish a religion. That means a governmental body (like a school) can't establish a religion, like teaching that religion in school, even as an elective. A student-led religious club could form to meet after school and discuss this curriculum though. Maybe that would be a good compromise, if the students in this school are interested.

In your face, bitches!

Ahh, the joys of olde time religion.

http://www.pfaw.org/pfaw/general/default.aspx?oid=1353



It names Pat Robertson and James Kennedy among others as influencing that curriculum. That should tell us something.

And more from Ed Week. Registration is free.

Well, it won't let me link. So the title is The Bible Makes A Comeback.
edweek.org

"Fucking Chuck Norris"

They're going to start offering this crap in Georgia in the upcoming school year. I can't wait for the lawsuits!

their careers with a little bible adventure...

They know it's wrong but they don't care. People like this give Xtians a bad reputation. I know that not all Xtians are morans but sometimes it sure looks like it. Why is it so frakking hard to grasp the concept that religion doesn't belong in a public school? I'd hate to think what kind of science they teach at this school.

I guess they'd rather fight established law and the US Constitution than provide their kids with books and after school activities.

I know quite a few evangelical fundamentalists who believe the original King James Version is the only authorized version of the Bible, sanctioned by God (used to be a saying--if it was good enough for St. Paul, it's good enough for me...go figure that one!). Heard about a preacher who took a sharp knife to church and during his sermon he chopped up a lot of other versions--NIV, American Standard, possibly the Catholic Bible, etc.--declaring them evil, the work of the devil! So just wondering what version made the approved list for this class...

There was a hymn we used to sing back in the day when I attended church--"They Will Know We Are Christians by Our Love." Maybe that's been replaced by "If You Don't Like It You Can Kiss My Butt!" Not one of Charles Wesley's, I'm betting!

Blessings.

Refuting Evolution: Pelosi's film excerpt
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/...

Great clip, btw.

But the subtitle said that "54 million Americans do not believe in evolution." That all depends on who's doing the polling, of course, but the latest number I heard was 65%, practically 2/3s of all Americans, and my anecdotal experience supports this. Even 54 million is still 1/6th. And that's WITHOUT the Bible being taught in schools!

showing children a picture of apes and asking, "did your grandfather look like that"? Poisoning the minds of impressionable children with unsubstantiated myth is far superior to exposing them to "devil science".

The adults who push this crap are dangerous, stupid people who have absolutely no interest in educating these children, only indoctrinating them. Creating a future generation of unquestioning, tithing zombies who'll give until it hurts so they'll ensure their place in "heaven" and quite possibly hijack our Democracy (what little remains) to spread their dream of a theocratic America.

I loathe these people.