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kentuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 02:48 PM
Original message
Does anyone think?
That the economy will be growing so well in two years that the Bush taxcuts can be ended? Or will the Republicans argue that it would stymie the recovery if we ended them?

That this is all about the re-election of Barack Obama?

That the Democrats can get the Republicans to sign on to extending unemployment benefits one year from now if the economy is still in the doldrums? Or will they block it as they have done this time? Will it be different?

That extending the same taxcuts that have failed so miserably for the last ten years will dramatically change in the next two years and make this economy boom?

That President Obama will be able to persuade Republicans to end the taxcuts two years from now?

What the hell are you smoking???
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 02:50 PM
Response to Original message
1. loaded question with an insult at the end
looks like flamebait. What the hell are you smoking? (as if I care)
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kentuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 02:51 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. I'm not surprised...
that it would look like flamebait to you?

How about the questions?
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 02:56 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. it doesn't look like you want a debate
It looks like you're looking for a confrontation more than you are an honest discussion. You've made a premise and answered it yourself with an insult. Circular arguments don't need an outside response.
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kentuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 02:58 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. It wasn't posted for debate purposes...
Simply stating some obvious facts that seem to escape a lot of people.
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 03:05 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. I've got a good idea what it was posted for
You've already characterized anyone who might deem to disagree with your premise as 'smoking' something. It's designed for a one way discussion. It's not just a poster, it's an appeal for hurrahs.
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kentuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 03:07 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. Instead of personal attacks, what do you think of the questions...
You've already said you're not smoking anything. How about the other questions? Or would you simply like to continue your personal attacks?
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 03:10 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. I have responded
. . .to your preemptive personal attack on anyone who might disagree with you.
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kentuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 03:12 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. You disagree with the facts or me personally?
Tell us which of the questions you think are untrue and why?

Petty.
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 03:15 PM
Response to Reply #16
19. the one at the end
. . . where you intimate that anyone who disagrees with your premises must be smoking something. (I don't know you 'personally' so I can't make any such judgment)
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corpseratemedia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 04:16 PM
Response to Reply #14
29. they aren't personal attacks, clearly
people CAN see the endgame, that doesn't make it a personal attack on others
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kentuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 04:20 PM
Response to Reply #29
30. What do you think is the endgame?
Curious.
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Davis_X_Machina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 02:52 PM
Response to Original message
3. I don't care about two years from now...
...and if the first two words out of your mouth aren't 'aggregate demand', I'm not listening to you.

Not just you, Kentuck. Anyone.

Your own post indicates the necessity of improvement in the economy. But unless you've got some mechanism to expropriate the expropriators via rule by decree, and not through the legislative process, you've got very, very narrow parameters inside which to work to encourage that improvement.
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xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 02:55 PM
Response to Original message
4. The 'tax cuts' are moveable goal posts if you're for them
Or simply seek to gain political advantage from them.

They're not good but any one can use them in
Multiple way.
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Autumn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 02:58 PM
Response to Original message
6. I doubt it. Yes. I am leaning toward yes but
will wait and see. No .Yes. No. Definitely not, if it does I owe Bush an apology but it hasn't worked in 12 years, why would it now. No. I am smoking an e-cigarette.
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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 03:01 PM
Response to Original message
8. at this rate of job creation economists estimate 20 years to 5% unemployment.
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democrank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 03:02 PM
Response to Original message
9. Not only will Republicans want to end the millionaire tax cuts
in two years, I `m certain they`ll all volunteer at their neighborhood soup kitchens and they`ll donate their raises to a special fund for research on traumatic brain injuries suffered by our troops in Iraq and Afghanistan.
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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 03:08 PM
Response to Original message
12. I can answer the last question.
25 Micron Keif, with a little Chocolate Chunk thrown in for good measure. Later, I'll be trying out our newest strain, Blue Dream.

The rest of the stuff, who the hell knows Kentuck?
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kentuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 03:09 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. Would that little chocolate chunk be....
hashish? :-)
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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 03:12 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. Lol, no that's the kief.
The chocolate chunk is another new strain we've been working on for months. It's a very nice, and very heavily flowered indica.
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kentuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 03:14 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. Is it sort of an upper, Jamaican-style...?
Or knock you on your ass type strain?
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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 03:17 PM
Response to Reply #17
21. The indica's put you in couch lock.
Actually I prefer a sativa, it's more of a head high. Most people use indica's for pain and anxiety, while many times the sativa's are used for depression and public anxiety.

And yeah, Jamaica still grows some really fine cannabis.
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kentuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 03:24 PM
Response to Reply #21
27. sativa
:thumbsup:
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Truth2Tell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 03:19 PM
Response to Reply #12
23. When I see a supplier
smoking a lot of keif I become, ahem, wary. Cuz well, where is that coming from?

Just sayin'. as a buyer.

:) :hi:
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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 04:36 PM
Response to Reply #23
31. You are a very smart consumer.
And you make a very good point. My keif is not screen or dry keif, but bubble hash made from pure ice and pure cold water and manpower. It's all from my set of bubble bags that take my trim and my bud through a series of progressively smaller holes (micro measured by 25, 45, 73, 95, 125, and 160, the smaller the hole, the purer the product) and I would never think of dry keifing a bud before donating it, but I do know that some dispensaries do. I bubble all of my "trim" and many of my lower buds. The ratio really doesn't pay off, 8 to 1 on bud and 16 to 1 on trim, but once you know the bliss of pure bubble, it's hard to accept anything else.

All it takes is a scope to determine if your product has been tampered with so the supplier can "double dip", and if you don't have your own, the dispensary should supply one. If they don't, it's time to seek another vendor.

Again, it's good to know there are smart consumers out there to keep vendors honest. To me, cannabis is the closest thing I know to the sacred, and to see people take advantage of others through commerce or trading, really chaps my hide.

Peace friend.
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Truth2Tell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-10 03:29 PM
Response to Reply #31
40. I figured you were an ethical grower
based on what I've read here on DU. As you know, not all are. And in these times it's crucial for all of us. :)

Peace to you as well brother. :toast:
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L0oniX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 03:15 PM
Response to Original message
18. Crack!
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kentuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 03:18 PM
Response to Reply #18
22. Leave it to Zappa!
:-)
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 03:16 PM
Response to Original message
20. I don't know what it is but I want some too.
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kentuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 03:19 PM
Response to Reply #20
24. It seems like I am unable to make a serious post anymore..
either I am stoned or crucified. I can't win. :-)
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L0oniX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 03:21 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. Well some people sh*t under their own big tree.
:evilgrin:
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 04:36 PM
Response to Reply #24
32. I'd say stoned is the better situation.
:)
Getting crucified is getting old.
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kentuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 04:38 PM
Response to Reply #32
33. I'll take your advice...
you sound like a wise monk to me... :-)
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 04:46 PM
Response to Reply #33
35. When I'm in the right frame of mind.
:)

Anyone seen my Doritos?
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Vinca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 03:21 PM
Response to Original message
26. The meme in 2 years will be "Obama increased the deficit."
After all, the tax cuts will still be the Bush tax cuts, not the Obama tax cuts. I hate the Republicans but they're very smart when it comes to being weasels and it looks like they've trapped their prey.
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Davis_X_Machina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 03:39 PM
Response to Reply #26
28. For one year children I know...
Edited on Sun Dec-12-10 03:40 PM by Davis_X_Machina
...with unemployed parents will still have a home, and warm clothes. The ones that work will have a few more dollars to spend, especially after they file their taxes with the EITC increase extention. The ones about to send kids off to day care, or to college, will be less broke.

But it's more important to have a cold, hard, small, disciplined, real Democratic party. That's is the only thing that will save the country. And revolutions always have innocent victims.

Oh, sure, some people will carp, and point out that during this process real people will suffer real pain that could otherwise have been averted. When the historical necessity of their sacrifice is explained to them properly, however, they will come around.

Some day, when the real progressives finally take power, we can recognize their sacrifice. A memorial, something tasteful, and not too grandiose on the Mall? Or a commemorative stamp...we could have Banksey do it; think how cool that would be.
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Vinca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 04:46 PM
Response to Reply #28
34. As a method of last resort for getting unemployment benefits
to SOME of the long term unemployed (the 99ers are still screwed), it might be a last resort to pass this bill, but as of now it is the first resort. Do you honestly think the Republicans would vote against a stand alone bill on Christmas eve? But, hey, just for the heck of it they might have tried that ploy before giving Rupert Murdoch's bank account a big, fat kiss. And here's another novel idea. Instead of giving the borrowed Chinese money to the wealthy, how about we put it toward ending hunger in America? Wait, wait. Don't tell me. I'm being all sanctimonious purist again.
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Davis_X_Machina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 05:19 PM
Response to Reply #34
36. If by 'sanctimonious purist' you mean...
...'constitutionally unable to count to 60' or 'haven't the faintest notion of how Congress is composed, and works', yes.
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Vinca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-10 07:01 AM
Response to Reply #36
38. Well, heck, let's fold up the tents and go home then.
No need to try if we've already lost.
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Recursion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 05:52 PM
Response to Reply #34
37. They did in early December
Are you saying they won't in late December?

People act like Reid hasn't tried to vote on middle class tax cuts, or on extending unemployment benefits. He has tried, and the votes aren't there. And the situation will be worse when the next Congress starts.
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Prophet 451 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-10 07:22 AM
Response to Original message
39. In order
They could be ended now (tax cuts have precious little to do with stimulus); yes, of course they will; no idea; no way; they'll block it; not at all; not a chance; you're kidding, right? And handrolled Cutters.

I've pretty much given up on trying to figure out what Obama is trying to accomplish. The GOP are easy to figure out, they only have three priorities. Number one: Help the rich. Joint number two: Help themselves and destroy everyone else. The Republican reaction to any given piece of legislation can be worked out thusly:
10 Does it help the rich. If so, goto 80
20 Does it help us, input A$
30 If A$ = "yes", goto 50.
40 If A$ <> "yes", goto 90
50 Does it help the other guy, input B$
60 If B$ = "yes", goto 90
70 If B$ <> "yes", goto 80
80 Vote "yes"
90 Vote "no"

It really is that simple. Help the rich, help themselves, fuck up the other guy. The needs of the people don't figure in there in the slightest. Of course, there's a grey area where they'll sacrifice their own well-being to fuck up the other guy a bit more or push the public dialogue even further to the right (ten years ago, I was a moderate. Now I'm a flaming left comsymp without my views changing at all) but that's teh basic gist of it. Think of them as an especially vicious and spiteful four-year-old and you're about right.

Now, Obama, him I can't figure out at all. He talks like a Huey Long, some great crusader for fairness but he acts like a boxer prepared to win on points against an opponant with a glass jaw. He gives away massive prizes for minimal gains. He just got another year's unemployment for some of the poorest, which is great but to get it, he gave away the far bigger prize of extending the tax cuts. He must know that the right will use the expanding deficit that causes against him. The guy has a degree and taught Constitutional law so he's bright enough to know that. He does some stuff that gives the right fits (like the Lily Leadbetter Fair Pay Act) but then he caves on the tax cuts, essentially caves on healthcare, caves on gay rights. The only comparison I can think of is some of the girls I taught self-defence to: They were so attached to their self-image as meek and gentle creatures that they couldn't bring themselves to throw a punch. I can teach a girl how to get over that but I'm damned if I know how you teach a politician to get over it.
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