The hacks were a warning.

[walldude]

Call it cybercrime, call it whatever bullshit you want.It wasn't a crime it was a fucking warning. The hacks were a warning to a government that has been allowed to get away with shit for 30 years. A government that believes it holds all the cards, and all the power. A government that believes it is untouchable, that they can get away with anything they damn well want. Iran Contra, Panama, Iraq, Afghanistan, Guantanamo, the list of illegal activities the government has gotten away with over the last 30 years is ENDLESS.

Now the government is SCARED. They are clamping down, and shutting up. They are afraid because someone out there showed them that they do not hold all the cards, they do not run everything, and that people are getting pissed off, and that some of these people hold knowledge and power that cannot be stopped.


You can call them criminals. I call them friends.

[Catherina]

1. I call them friends too. I am Spartacus. Rec'd n/t

[socialist_n_TN]

41. I think I'd call them Comrade.........

:) I'm getting more and more Red (classic Red, not Rethug red) in my old age.

[Catherina]

72. Yes, comrades, brothers, sisters...

When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty.

[fasttense]

96. When the laws are sneered at and ignored it is the end of that society.

During prohibition a great concern among the wealthy was how the masses were ignoring the law and drinking anyway. It was as if the whole society thumbed its nose at law and order. It was the beginning of the end of the society of the Robber Barons. That is why FDR was so quick to push for repeal of prohibition.

Today sneering and ignoring laws is much more widespread. It is not just about drinking, smoking pot, or hacking corporate computers. It is about control. The only way society can control large masses of people is through their own consent. Fair laws are a display of this consent.

When the oligarchy fails to follow the law, this disregard trickles down onto the average person. If the average person displays a disregard for the laws of society, that society is doomed. It is only a matter of time before our current oligarchy crumbles.

[Raksha]

126. Good observation.

Re "When the oligarchy fails to follow the law, this disregard trickles down onto the average person. If the average person displays a disregard for the laws of society, that society is doomed. It is only a matter of time before our current oligarchy crumbles."

Interesting that the upper class during Prohibition weren't concerned that THEY were disregarding the law and drinking anyway. That was their prerogative, of course. It was that the masses were following their example--which always happens sooner or later.

[MedicalAdmin]

180. One could say that the grumbling in the masses started with suicide bombers.

I have no regard for anyone that would take innocent lives, but the suicide bomber was an example of those with no power and no strategic weapons finding a way to strike strategically at the power over them.

[WhaTHellsgoingonhere]

129. That is some insightful shite fasttense. Head on nail

Thanks :thumbsup:

[glitch]

139. Very well said. On the bright side, the oligarchy can crumble and the republic can remain.

In fact the oligarchy dying is the only way the republic can live.

[snagglepuss]

171. BINGO.

:applause:

[Mark D.]

145. True.

I just hope we can turn the tea-baggers around. They've been trained to run in the wrong direction. No surprise their leaders in the GOP in Washington oppose the leaks. I will say it again. It bears repeating. I don't support leaks that knowingly will kill true innocents. The attempt to stop that is a ruse in my opinion. The 'real owners' George Carlin talked about are the ones who most want to see Assange and his reporting fail. THAT is what I want to hear. Gigantic bank(s) he has info on. What Ron Paul called for, in a rare moment I agree with him, to get leaks on the Federal Reserve.

It's the private, greed-based, for-profit elite bankers, corporatists, and the military industrial complex they profit from, that is at the root of almost everything wrong in America and much of the world. If he has info, that MUST be revealed to hopefully unite Americans, which the elite most fear, since they can only retain power when enough in the victim class (the bottom 99%) support the status quo. They don't want us working together to take back America, to we-the-people. EVERY bad action of government has someone somewhere paying for it, and profiting off of it. Period.

[MedicalAdmin]

181. YOu make a great point that bears repeating to everyone.

EVERY bad action of government has someone somewhere paying for it, and profiting off of it. Period.



THAT is what they fear.

[Jeffersons Ghost]

189. The 'real owners' will eventually win

jo mds!

[floriduck]

154. Hacking is the new form of voting

It is the only thing that seems to get anyone's attention.

[tomg]

125. Same here. nt.

[Jeffersons Ghost]

185. Are you "red" as in China?

[Kablooie]

79. *I* am Spartacus!

[AsahinaKimi]

89. I think I rather like ..

"I'm Batman!"

[NoPasaran]

2. So was 9/11

Friends? Scum is more like it.

[walldude]

5. Awwww did you have a problem wiff your widdle credit card

today.... :rofl: :rofl:

Oh and 9/11 was not a warning it was a demand to remove US troops from the "Holy Land" which GWB capitulated to in the first week. Get your history straight.

[sudopod]

8. God forbid someone have trouble buying shit on credt for half an hour.

Clearly those responsible are JUST LIKE HITLER.

[underseasurveyor]

118. the sky is falling and the world will implode

Because I can't BUY more crap:cry:

Hitler.... :rofl:
Very funny :thumbsup:

[reggie the dog]

179. our debit cards worked just fine here in france

and i have mastercard...but it is not a credit card, it is a debit card...

[Kalyke]

56. Classic Hatfields (Bush) and McCoys (bin Laden).

Too bad Friar Tuck or Andy Griffith can't fix it.

DoublePlus points for anyone who knows what the hell I'm referencing - and not the Shakespearean aspect.

:)

[sudopod]

7. Kids on the internet = mass murderers

Well ALRIGHTY THEN.

[Amonester]

83. Hey, they're TORTURERS too.

And I DEMAND they HAVE to be ALLOWED to walk away FREE!

It's a question of BLIND JUSTICE for all.


:spray:

[movonne]

11. Have you been at this all day...I have seen other of your remarks

today...I guess you don't like freedom...

[John Q. Citizen]

Si pasaran. Es lo que pasa cuando la gente no son el poder.

You disparage my heros.

You only recognize the authority of an empire.

But I forgive you because you know not what you do.

[Forkboy]

33. Your posts on this rule.

Not because I agree, but because solid comedy is hard to find these days.

[MrMickeysMom]

47. Guess we'll never know that one...

or many of the other unsolved crimes that this nation should have been more serious in examining,

Ever wonder why it's always the "other country" that becomes infiltrated with secrets suppressed?

I'd like to know more about lots of scummy things, but being told to shut up over revelations of suppressed, embarrassing, deceitful government mishaps is something people can only take for only so long.

I'm waiting for the next shoe to drop because we've only seen a warning.

[rhett o rick]

104. It is clear who's side you are on in this war. nm

[Lost-in-FL]

150. ...

Lol!!!! Awww... He is afraid... Boooo!

[MedicalAdmin]

182. Boner? Is that you?

[TwilightGardener]

3. LOL. OK.

[EFerrari]

4. You can only beat up on people for so long. n/t

[walldude]

9. Apparently you can and some people will enjoy it

as shown here. Poor folks couldn't survive without their little credit cards.

[awoke_in_2003]

155. I re-read "1984" yesterday...

it is easy to concentrate on the authoritarian aspect of it. Previously when I read it the economy was good, so I didn't pay much attention to the economics of the book. I paid much more attention this time. The economics are the key- you have to keep people on the verge of survival. When people are just trying to hang on, they do not have time to see or educate themselves about what is happening to them, and if they do see it they are afraid to do anything about it. How many of us would lose our jobs if we were gained an arrest record for protesting? Probably quite a lot of us. As it is, most are living a few paychecks away from homelessness. Without the economics atrocities the other atrocities cannot take place.

on edit: my point is- yes, they can beat up on people forever.

[EFerrari]

198. You have a very valid point.

I think, though, there is always a tipping point -- slow socio-economic death tries to stop short of it, for sure. But that isn't a perfect way to keep people in line. Haiti. The Warsaw Ghetto. Cesar Chavez. Stonewall.

[awoke_in_2003]

200. i hope with all my being...

you are right. I am a bit of a skeptic, I will readily admit. I think we are (for the most part) stupid animals that are easily amused. One interesting thing from "1984" though- the Inner party were 2% of the population. The proles were 85%. The remaining 13% were outer party members. The 2% strikes me funny- but throughout history, the richest 2% have always controlled the functions of government. Odd coincidence, or precedence? How long before those who consider ourselves "Outer Party" member are nothing but proles?

[EFerrari]

201. The Outer Party Members were proles, too, but they got to pretend they weren't.

Just like all families on teevee commercials are suburban middle class.

Spooky how closely the break down mirrors what we're seeing.

[awoke_in_2003]

202. "they got to pretend they weren't"...

wow, a very simple sentence, but it about sums it up.

[nadinbrzezinski]

6. It is at the very least a small revolt

not a revolution yet. If it gets to that stage, all bets for many ting are off.

And no, the revolution will not be televised.

[socialist_n_TN]

38. But you never know what is the tipping point..........

incident.

[nadinbrzezinski]

55. As a working historian I understand this better than most

and been readying way too much into enclosure acts and all that.

The glorious revolution... yes it was called that way... did not start from a single riot.

Here is a piece of trivia.... you know why following them riots is kind of silly, well except during Cromwell's little soiree? For the british three people WERE a riot.

We live the Chinese curse.

[socialist_n_TN]

121. I'm not a professional historian by any stretch................

but history has always been a VERY interesting hobby of mine, ESPECIALLY histories of places and times I'm interested in.

One thing I HAVE noticed about all of the revolutions I've read about is that there was a build up of MANY incidents that got people more and more fed up with the government as it was and more and more doubtful that said government could do ANYTHING about bettering the lives of the people. When a critical mass was reached all it took was ONE MORE INCIDENT to spark the uprising. The proverbial straw, so to speak.

That said, I don't think that we're there yet, at least not in the USA. However, one difference between today and the past, is the worldwide communications net provided by the Internet and other electronic devices. They're so interwoven into ALL life today, both personal and business, that it's going to be VERY difficult for the PTB to shut it all down. And as long as there's communication between people, there will be coordination between like minded people opposed to those same PTB. Yes, the opposite is true too. It's also going to cause things to happen VERY quickly compared to the past.

IF this turns into a continuing guerrilla cyberwar, there'll be more incidents. With more incidents, there'll be more disruption. With more disruption, you'll see more of the average person involved in the disruptions whether actively or passively. We Americans don't like our entertainments messed with. At that point it will boil down to who's blamed. If the capitalist forces get too heavy handed and actually TRY to shut down the Internet and other electronic media, THEY will be blamed by a large portion of the populace. THAT will be the tipping point IMO.

But as I said in my original post in this thread, we don't really know WHAT that tipping point will be.

[Wednesdays]

98. No, the revolution will not be televised...but it will be all over the web

and I'll be sure to have plenty of :popcorn:

[tomg]

131. Love Gil Scott, Heron, and while

it might not be televised, it might take place on and through the net.

[MedicalAdmin]

183. I agree.

At some point the powers that be will strike back and when they do it will be silent, wet and permanent.

Keep well freedom fighters and keep your tracks covered.

[malaise]

10. The internet may save us

in the end.

V is for Truth!

[grasswire]

12. a sixties protester now journalist on MSNBC said the same

He said that the hacks were a message to the governments that awesome power is held in the hands of those who seek to set the truth free. Awesome power.

James Moore, author of Bush's Brain.

[HuckleB]

13. Meh.

:shrug:

[Pavulon]

14. That knowledge requires oxygen

deprive a person(s) of that and the knowledge goes away. Gerry bull was a smart man, seems that did not help him.

They are people playing a game with other people who have proven willing to take extraordinary measures in the past.

I'm sure the government is trying to figure out how to spread its ass cheeks like an assange groupie as we speak..

This is about money, you will pay taxes to clean the shit these idiots put on the walls. Manning will die in prison, and assange will be back to releasing fraternity handshakes.

Reality.

[walldude]

21. Oh I'm sure you are right...

I'm sure the government is threatening to prosecute anyone who prints Wikileaks material because they want to "spread their ass cheeks like a Assange groupie". I'm sure they had him arrested because they love him. I'm sure they aren't scared because they crossed the wrong motherfuckers. I'm sure this is all about money and not dirty laundry.

The reality is a bunch of kids with home computers crashed half the credit industry within hours. I'm sure that is nothing for the government to be worried about.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[TNLib]

15. I think the powers that be are getting a little wake up call

They can't operate they way they use to. Government information is to easily gotten and they can't operate in secrecey anymore.

Visa and Master card would not be getting attacked as hard if they had a better PR image. Any hacker and hacker wanna be had access to instructions to attack MC and Visa. I'm willing to bet some didn't even really know what wiki leaks was and just wanted to attack MC and Visa because MC and Visa suck.

[Ricochet21]

22. You're kidding yourself if you think they can't operate in secrecy anymore

They have money.

Keep up the fight.

[Goldstein1984]

16. I call it civil disobedience. I call them dissenters and rebels.

I like it.

I'll do what I can to support such action.

I don't believe the government is scared, I think they're too arrogant for that. I think they're annoyed and angry, and they're lashing out at those who dare to stand toe-to-toe with them.

[walldude]

29. Yeah but they are scrambling hard to keep a lid on this

maybe scared is a bit much, nervous might sound better. Either way, the hackers got their attention...

[Goldstein1984]

30. Even if they aren't scared now, I hope we're going to a place where they are

[undergroundpanther]

17. :)

Wonderful is what I call them,and it's about time the rich and evil got what they had coming for years...years of abusing power ,people,and this world.

Hail Sekhmet !!!

[pnwmom]

18. I didn't elect these people. No one did. They're hackers out

to cause as much chaos as they can. If they were selective about what they were releasing -- as Daniel Ellsburg was -- I'd be behind them. But I can't support this indiscriminate dumping of hundreds of thousands of documents with zero regard to the consequences.

[walldude]

23. I wish I had elected these people

because the ones I did elect SUCK.

[Celtic Raven]

119. You said what I was thinking

:thumbsup:

[Matariki]

26. You're confusing Wikileaks with Anonymous.

They aren't the same. Wikileaks isn't 'hackers'.

And Daniel Ellsburg stands with Julian Assange.

[madmax]

80. Speaking of Daniel Ellsburg

Daniel Ellsburg stand with Julian Assange.

"2.20pm: A group of whistleblowers including Daniel Ellsberg, who leaked the Pentagon papers; Katharine Gun, the former GCHQ translator who leaked documents about the Iraq war; and Craig Murray, Britain's former ambassador to Uzebekistan who sacked after revealing torture, have put out a statement in support of WikiLeaks.

Ellsberg is quoted as saying:


Every attack now made on WikiLeaks and Julian Assange was made against me and the release of the Pentagon Papers at the time.

The letter begins:

WikiLeaks has teased the genie of transparency out of a very opaque bottle, and powerful forces in America, who thrive on secrecy, are trying desperately to stuff the genie back in."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/blog/2010/dec/08/wikileaks-us-embassy-cables-live-updates

[Duppers]

90. thanks for adding that info!

give some here some much needed perspective.

:thumbsup:

[tblue37]

27. They do have regard for the consequences. As I understand it,

they release info rather slowly, actually, after first redacting names and info that might create significant dangers or harm to innocent people.

[madmax]

116. The UK Gaurdian is also carefully reading and redacting

before they publish. Their website is quite informative not just publishing the information leaked but, commentary and related information. :thumbsup: UK G.

[Matariki]

28. Actually, could you give an example of specific things you think Wikileaks shouldn't have published?

I'm curious because I'm having the same discussion with a good friend of mine and she couldn't name any, so I wonder how she came to the opinion they were indiscriminate.

[Matariki]

147. Nothing?

Same as my friend. Her answer was "wikileaks published 3 million documents" therefore it has to be indiscriminate. She couldn't even tell me *where* she got the misinformation.

[krabigirl]

32. The hackers are not wikileaks.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

34. why do blatant ignorance and loud mouths seem to come in pairs so often?

Everything you said in this post is demonstrably false. I don't think it would have been possible for you to craft a more incorrect post. Are you proud of your thorough ignorance, or do you just like throwing feces against a wall to find out what sticks?

[BrklynLiberal]

166. lololol

A practice perfected by this one

[Forkboy]

35. They could feed the masses and you'd still be against them.

Who are you kidding?

[Luminous Animal]

51. You keep saying that even though the truth has been posted on here dozens and dozens of times.

They have not dumped thousands and thousands of documents. To assert so, is a flat out lie. Each document is being reviewed by 6 news organizations in collaboration. The NY Times is even collaborating with the State Dept.

That is why only a hundred (more or less) are being released per day.

So, they are, indeed, being selective. Do you support them now?

[WinkyDink]

95. Well, we didn't elect Bush, either.

[rhett o rick]

109. I am not surprised at the side you choose in this war. nm

[dbmk]

120. I think you might be mixing up the participants here

Wikileaks and those who work on/for Wikileaks did not hack anything. They recieved information from a US citizen(it seems) and asked several newspapers - and the US State Dept - to help them clean out any information that might have those much talked about consequences. State Dept declined.

I am pretty sure they took consequences into regard. As well as benefits. One might disagree on the decision arived at.

The DDoS attacks going on right now is not about chaos. But to make a point to those who direct and participate in this extrajudicial execution of an idea. They do not pick their targets at random. They have no goal of overthrowing business and government. As long as those businesses and governments operates in what they deem a fair manner.

Now, again, one might disagree with them on the criterias on what constitutes such behavior. But chaotic its not.

[MH1]

140. Yep.

Feels great to know how much 'power' is in the hands of people you know nothing about, who clearly don't give a f*** about you.

Kinda like having the government have that power, as a matter of fact. Only this time you don't even know their names.

[14thColony]

143. Wow

This is almost as bad as mixing up the characters in a one-man play.

[liberation]

158. But Daniel Ellsberg dumped ALL the documents.

Ironically, when he released the Pentagon Documents, the RAND Corp. and the Pentagon apologists used the very SAME arguments to trash his reputation, by impossing arbitrary conditions regarding the free flow of information as you are doing right now. The arguments were something like "We have no problem with the free flow of information, however..."

So congratulations, in using Ellsberg as a copt out, you are in essence acting like the very same people who trashed him and tried to turn the release of the Pentagon Papers into a personality issue, in order to deflect from the reality of what the Pentagon Papers were describing.


The more things things change, the more the apologists of the system remain the same...

[druidity33]

159. you are UNINFORMED.

WikiLeaks has so far released 900+ documents. Each one was prereleased to 4 major newspapers, redacted and gone through harm minimization, and published by said papers. THEN they are uploaded to the WikiLeaks website.

You are POWERFULLY wrong.

Read here for true reporting:

http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/

http://www.democracynow.org/


:shrug:

[druidity33]

160. You are UNINFORMED.

WikiLeaks has so far released 1000+ documents. Each one was pre-released to 4 major newspapers, redacted and gone through harm minimization, and published by said papers. THEN they are uploaded to the WikiLeaks website.

You are POWERFULLY wrong.

Read here for true reporting:

http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/

http://www.democracynow.org/


:shrug:

[Ratty]

175. I didn't know that

My understanding was they only put the 1000+ documents on their website but that some parties had received the entire 250,000+ dump. I hadn't realized unvetted documents had never been released to anybody (BTW I wasn't confusing this with the encrypted "poison pill" file which I knew to be a separate deal - but maybe that's where I got confused).

[frylock]

188. take it up with daniel ellsberg..

you've been here a minute, so i'm positive that you know that ellsberg is 100% behind what wikileaks is doing.

[mike_c]

19. rec'd!

[Zanzobar]

20. Now the government is SCARED.

Pardon me, but, Bwhahahahahahah!

[walldude]

25. Yes I'm sure the government isn't scared of a few kids

who managed to crash half the credit industry within a few hours. That shit happens all the time.

Do you have any idea the levels of encryption Credit Card companies use? I thought not. Nevermind, call me when you educate yourself.

[NavyDem]

44. Most websites use

2048 bit, or 1024 bit RSA (Rivest, Shamir, Adelman) encryption as part of the public key infrastructure. This is of course the ecryption between web browser and client computer.

A DDoS attack against the public facing websites for Visa and Master Card does not affect the back end processing. They would have to bring down the processing network itself.

More info: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RSA

[walldude]

52. There seems to be a bit of debate on whether this was just

a DDoS or an actual hack. Word is they got card numbers but that has also been disputed. I'm still reading but I get the feeling we'll never know how bad they got hit.

[NavyDem]

59. Some generalities

Given that there are conflicting reports, the gist of a DDoS is that it prevents the website from answering legitimate calls for pages. Now, depending on how they launch that attack, it could be bring down just the website, or it could bring down attempts to reach the host using TCP/IP.

Only if they have access to the server (remote) would they be able to gain root access to the server since they are not on site where the server is physically located. Thus, they would have to still have a way to reach the server via TCP/IP. In order to gain root level access, they would have to expose some kind of vulnerability on the server. Once there is root level access, then it's game on.

The problem with the story of stealing CC numbers, is that they did not attack the processing network, they only attacked the public websites of Visa and MasterCard. If they attacked a payment processor and were able to take advantage of the API for reaching the back-end processing, they could conceivably get the numbers. That is a more likely scenario if they attacked a card issuer, vice the payment processor.

[walldude]

68. Well... we only know what we are being told.

Which is all over the place at this point.

You have to admit that if a hacker wanted to get into a system for real, a credit card company would be a good choice since they almost certainly aren't running on TCP/IP alone. Direct server access is pretty much a cost of doing that kind of business. Back in the dial up days we used to just dial into the damn system, it was simple. The tricky part was getting around :) Was never really serious about it but I ran a BBS for awhile and hung out with that crowd. I still hold respect for hackers who do it to prove they can. I hold greater respect when they do it for a righteous cause. No respect for virus gurus or malicious hackers. Funny, even hackers have a left and a right...

[NavyDem]

69. True on a a lot of counts...

If they were going after the credit cards, they would go after someone that would have access to store such information. If security is implemented as it is supposed to be by law, this would be fairly difficult to do (But of course, not impossible).

To be honest, I don't know what the full spectrum of protections implemented are, but it goes beyond using HTTPS and 2048-bit RSA encryption. How they payment processors work is with a separate protocol that is unique to the industry (if I remember correctly), but can be carried over a TCP/IP network.

In most cases where cards have been stolen, there was not a proper implementation of security on the servers, or the card information was stored in web-accessible databases. My interest in all of this is purely academic, as I am completing my degee in information security and forensics, and obtaining my CISSP certification.

[Egnever]

77. Cool degree

Good choice I think.

[xor]

100. CISSP is the one that requires about six years of verifiable security experience, right?

[NavyDem]

165. Close.

CISSP requires 5+ years of verifiable experience which must be certified by another CISSP, and is subject to audit. Here are the requirements:

https://www.isc2.org/cissp-how-to-certify.aspx

[xor]

196. Ahh yeah, I knew it was something along those lines...

I was looking into it a few weeks ago. It's a bit out of reach for the time being... Maybe someday. I'm still planning on taking some courses for it though. Maybe learn a few things in the process. It seems like it covers a lot of the less "glamorous" aspects, I'm not sure if I have the stomach to go through all that right now.

[TorchTheWitch]

67. THAT's what you think they did? Bwaaaahahaha!

Sorry, all they did was disable websites. Nobody has had any problem using their creditcards because of this. You really think some ding-a-lings at 4chan were able to crash the credit industry for hours and the whole fucking world doesn't know about it????

Talk about educating one's self!

[Greyhound]

81. If you know as much as you like to imply then you also know that this is nothing

but exposing the inherent vulnerability of the internet, only a small part of which is the WWW.

You also know that there are many more than a "a few kids" that know at least as much, and in many cases more, than the government's "security experts".

The only completely secure system is an isolated system.

You also know that banks all over the world, including the central banks, are regularly compromised and the banks just raise fees and interest rates to cover any losses and let it go to maintain their illusion of security. The governments of China, Russia, Iran, Iraq, Malaysia, etc., have tried to cut off or limit the internet and they have all failed.

[Kaleko]

24. Those hacks today were a way of showing our swords.

Cyber Samurai weren't even drawing their double-edged swords out of their sheaths, let alone draw real blood.

Not yet. But they did take a stand and make the bloodsuckers scream for their heads.

Yeah baby, it's epic. Like in the movies when they really hit home.

[truth2power]

31. "Shit for 30 years." Yep. How many innocent lives have been lost

to serve the needs of the US MIC? When have any of the execrable scum been brought to justice?

Oh... never? Hmm..

NEMESIS: In Greek mythology, the goddess of retribution, who punishes human transgressions of the natural, right order of things and the arrogance that causes it.

----Courtesy of the late Chalmers Johnson.

Free Assange!

[The Backlash Cometh]

36. People just got sick and tired of Goliath's stupidity.

[Howler]

37. Yep! n/t

n/t

[jotsy]

39. Interesting discussion.

Thanks all.

I support the disclosure of information by Wikileaks because I subscribe to the theory that sunlight is a good disinfectant and the constitutional charter suggests to me that a publicly funded governmental entity should be required to account for its activity.

We are proverbial babes in the woods of the informational age, yet to grow into our technological accomplishments. I'm glad the folks with what appear to be the most comprehensive grip on that kind of know how isn't in the hands of the PTB, cuz man oh man, do the people need an equalizer.

RECOMMENDED

The FCC is set to propose policy regarding net neutrality on December 21st, language I've read may have been drafted by Verizon and Google. They're advising a tiered system to create a rate structure and it likely isn't about much beyond money and group think. I contend we got more than enough that's about that.

<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=51V3Rjqv1R4>

[glinda]

66. I am hoping that if tiered that a media mogul comes along with a progressive open system.

[jotsy]

73. It's been my experience that open and profit are not terms that lend themselves well to one another.

If I understand your hope correctly, that is.

[glinda]

138. They don't but maybe the time has come and perhaps enrollment would be overwhelming.

[DemoTex]

40. 30 years? What a fucking joke.

I was in 'Nam 40+ years ago, and it was well intrenched then. Korea? WWII?

Jesus, even William Faulkener called in their cards from WW-I in "A Fable."

[walldude]

42. My bad.. no need to get pissed.. I'm a bit younger than you

I don't always think of what came before I was aware....

[Kalyke]

43. First... it's not a hack. It's a denial of service - overloading servers.

And, yes, it was a warning.

And, yes, I call them both friends and paychecks.

I work for a security and compliance company... LOL... but I am a former reporter who believes in meting out the truth. Win-win to me. :hi:

[walldude]

46. I heard the sites were hacked...

Are you sure the DOS isn't just all that you are seeing? I'll check it out... and see what I can find.

[Kalyke]

48. Just heard on KO that some numbers were released.

In which case, it's not JUST a DOS.

If that is the case, then the wording of the news stories is incorrect. It's a DOS AND a hack.

[walldude]

50. LOL it's hard to follow, I heard the numbers released

were fakes. They might have got the real ones and not released them though. The beef is with the companies not the card holders.

[nadinbrzezinski]

57. And we may have quite a bit of

denial going on for their own sake and protection.

If so, watch for people having their cards cancelled. And yes that costs money as they need to issue new cards.

But there is a war going on, there is no doubt in my mind. And if these "kids" take this to other kinds of attacks... they could be very disruptive. Methinks we will have to keep an eye on this story... this may or may not be the beginning of something... but it will take time.

[xor]

101. Sounds like that might be an attempt to cause some FUD...

(fear uncertainty and doubt)

[nashville_brook]

45. f 'n a - k 'n r!

[Major Hogwash]

49. They relied on computers too much. The way our votes were stolen 10 years ago should have been enuff

of a warning that the government doesn't run secured computer systems.
Shit, Congress wouldn't listen back in 2004 or even by 2008, not even now.

The false security they have when they tell you their computers are "secured" is total horseshit as any 20-something hacker would tell you.

[Kalyke]

54. B-I-N-G-O and Bingo was the name, oh.

I work in IT security... NOTHING is safe unless you check often and check well.

[Dinger]

132. Exactly (nt)

[HipChick]

53. There are hardly hack...just calling via Twitter for a bunch of people to run

the LOIC app at the same time..

[nadinbrzezinski]

58. Tell that to Master Card

and VISA.

I suspect that it don't matter what happens some folks will still have head in sand for ever. This may be a whimper, or larger than just a whimper.

As a student of history I know this bears paying attention... close attention. But then again, I know history.

[Kalyke]

60. Nadin

You're correct.

Since it's the 30th anniversary of John Lennon's death, I'd be remiss to mention, "Power to the People."


And, hey, love that last name. I'm a Southern woman married to a nice Polish dude. LOL.

[nadinbrzezinski]

63. I know that this afternoon my part of the net was behaving odd

so I wonder just how much of the network was taken over if for just half an hour...

We have a small revolt going on. A riot as it were... whether this riot will be more organized and all that... at least they are not burning down the neighborhood like most physical riots.

Nor do I have to tell my crews to STAY OUT! (One rig got rocks through windshield... yes seen real anger real close)

[walldude]

61. There are other reports of more serious hacking

Olbermann reported on some numbers being stolen. I'm trying to find out what actually happened. And if it did just turn out to be a DDoS then my post is almost more relevant as many here were ready to hang these people. Make no mistake, I have been waiting for this to happen for awhile now. I'm surprised that it happened over Wikileaks, I was expecting it after the Net Neutrality vote, but I knew eventually the hackers would start flexing their muscle. See what happens after the Net Neutrality vote, it's coming up on the 21st.

[AlabamaLibrul]

64. There were no numbers stolen - nothing at all beyond a simple DDoS. Olbermann got it wrong. n/t

[walldude]

161. Show me.

Because Olbermann isn't the only one reporting it.

[AlabamaLibrul]

187. http://twitter.com/ mastercardnews Get short, timely messages from MasterCard Worldwide. n/t

[NavyDem]

65. Manual DDoS?

Manual DDoS? Hackers ususally take over zombie computers that have been compromised. If these guys didn't even do that, I hope they at least used anonymous proxies to try to hide their activity. If this was just coordinated attacks through a bunch of home PCs, they will likely be traced.

Most DDoS attacks are not prosecuted because the attacks come from innocent systems that were compromised.

I just looked up LOIC. A Window's app for stress testing? Really?

[laughingliberal]

62. K & R nt

[cdsilv]

70. Wait till they take down RBS ...

Royal Bank of Scotland processes most credit card transactions during the holidays...

[walldude]

71. Told ya... it was a warning

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=9723569&mesg_id=9723569

[cherokeeprogressive]

74. If it was a warning to the US government, why didn't they direct DDOS attacks at Govt. computers? n

[burrowowl]

75. Good on them!

[underseasurveyor]

76. I've said it for many years and gotten in many heated debates over it...

Hackers and Hemp will save the world ;-)

[Duppers]

87. let's hope.

:)

[nofurylike]

78. and if they bring down their perceived monster? they'll be the

privileged who ride it out just fine, while the most vulnerable pay the blood for the privileged megalomaniacs' 'revolution' game.

[Greyhound]

82. I find the irony absolutely delicious.

The government paid to develop an indestructible communications system to protect their ability to issue orders in case the USSR attacked and unleashed the next great evolution in human communications, thereby creating a tool that threatens their control over the people they are supposed to serve.
:kick: & R & :rofl:

[ChumbawambaFan]

84. Doubt the Gov't is shaking in their socks, exactly. But it's a pleasant fantasy.

Or even Paypal, Mastercard, or Visa for that matter.
We're talking the most powerful forces on the planet Earth. Ever.

And they've been collecting and converting 'hackers' from prison for decades now.
Still, it's a nice vision to aspire to.

Just image a gov't that cared what we thought because WE controlled them... not their campaign backers.

[MrScorpio]

85. Annnd... how is the government clamping down and shutting up going to make things any better?

Looks like a sure fire recipe for making things more fascistic and worse to me.

Apparently, you're under the impression that the government is just going to turn tail and run away from the actions of a bunch of bratty cyberterrorists.


That doesn't make any sense at all.

[Duppers]

86. "hacks"? nitpicking here ;)

I thought Wikileaks was only the conduit by which anonymous whistle-blowers can publish their yet-unheard/secret info. Anon @4chan have not "hacked" either, they merely cyber-attacked. Stickly speaking that's different than hacking. Just a little checking of terms.

Other than that, I agree w/your post, walldude. Always a fan.

What the great mass of these now-finally-awakened people dearly oppose is censorship.




"Truth is treason in the empire of lies."
- Ron Paul
(No matter the source, if truth is spoken, I'll share it. -d)

[HipChick]

91. I have to laugh at some of the fantasies here..agree it's a intermittent cyber attack

not a hack

[CJvR]

88. Perhaps it will be...

...the beginning of the end of Web anarchy. Electron rioters have just provided some fairly good reasons why a Web SWAT team is needed, or better yet a riot proof Web.

[PeaceNikki]

92. What do you know about IT and infrastructure and security and bandwidth?

Have you or someone you know ever had to deal with attacks like this? Are you fully aware of the ramifications and/or potential of these attacks? Do you call it a crime when it's done against or effects someone or some business that you "like"? Or only those you don't?

In the United States, the relevant code is Title 18 Part I Chapter 47 § 1030(a)(5)(A)(i), which says that anyone who:

(i) knowingly causes the transmission of a program, information, code, or command, and as a result of such conduct, intentionally causes damage without authorization, to a protected computer; is in violation of the law and can be fined and imprisoned for up to one year (unless there intrusion causes medical or physical harm, or unless they are already a convicted felon, or unless they seek monetary gain, in which cause the penalties go up).

So, is Paypal or Visa's website a protected computer? No, probably not. But any computer engaged in Interstate commerce is a protected computer. For example, all of the computers belonging to your ISP, which you are placing load on by your criminal activity. If it turns out you were collaborating with others in order to cause this activity to occur, say for instance, all of your buddies on Twitter, then you could also be said to be part of a conspiracy.

A crime is a crime.

[Occulus]

93. Nobody is buying what you're selling. n/t

[PeaceNikki]

94. That doesn't answer any of my questions.

I want to know if the OP or others cheering this on have a fucking clue about what Anon does.

Clearly the answer is no. Carry on with your ignorant fist-pumping slacktivism. Crack open another Dew, click a few times on a DDOS app you downloaded, and congratulate yourselves for doing "your part".

Then go back to browsing for porn and lulz in /b/. Just like wearing a ribbon or a bracelet to "promote awareness" it's slacktivism at its finest.

Oh, and still a Federal offense. Ask this guy: http://media-newswire.com/release_1133513.html

[Duppers]

97. wow!

Read that link.

[here_is_to_hope]

112. u mad /b/ro? eom

[Occulus]

128. 1) it wasn't meant as an answer, but rather as a summary dismissal

2) I'm not taking part beyond holding the insurance file for later decryption and dissemination to local media, if it contains anything of interest
3) I'm WELL aware of what Anonymous does and has done in the past,
4) I'm experienced enough with computers and the internet to not require the use of a "DDOS app" in order to participate in Operation Payback on other levels, even if I were taking part in these latest activities,
5) 4chan's /b/ porn is of the wrong gender for me.

and

6) it's only a crime if they get caught, which most of them won't.

Again: nobody is buying what you're selling.

[walldude]

102. A crime is a crime.

Unless it's perpetrated by the government which we seem to have no power to hold accountable for it's crimes. But I understand, you are all for punishing only the criminals that are "touchable" and allowing your government to get away with whatever it wants. It's done real well for us so far :eyes:

[valerief]

110. Like declaring war based on lies? Now THAT'S a crime! nt

[marew]

99. Couldn't agree more! n/t

[Javaman]

103. 30 years? You are being kind...

read about what we did to central america in the 50s. Or to the Philippians in 1900. Or what we did to the Native Americans. Or just to the American people. Read about the Bonus March in 1932 and it's "glorious" results.

Aw, hell, just read this...

http://americanhistory.about.com/library/timelines/bltimelineuswars.htm

and this...

http://academic.evergreen.edu/g/grossmaz/interventions.html

We have been doing this shit for a very long time. It's not a modern invention. We have always been corrupt.

[walldude]

106. Yeah another poster took me to task about that too... My bad

was just kinda going from since I was aware of the government but yeah we have a whole history of bullshit, criminality and corruption.

[Javaman]

113. It's all good.

Time frame is everything.

It's one thing to say we have always been corrupt, it's another thing to live during a time of corruption.

Peace.

[Jeffersons Ghost]

105. if you only knew... lol n/t

[rhett o rick]

107. I would like to see them hack the wealthy's bank accounts. That would get their attention. nm

[Hestia]

115. That's what I am waiting for also Rhett - make a real impression upon TPTB. Hit them where it hurts

their money

[socialist_n_TN]

123. Yep. I've said that a lot. If you want to get the ............

capitalist's attention, fuck with their money. That's why an ORGANIZED "Payment Strike" would be a tactic worth considering, IF it comes down to it and it gets so egregious that SOMETHING has to be done. That payment strike would be ESPECIALLY effective with credit cards and ALL revolving debt simply because the debt is unsecured.

[Raksha]

134. I would LOVE to see that!

[shireen]

168. +1

[shireen]

169. +1

[rhett o rick]

108. Problem is that an enemy of your enemy isnt always your friend. May be just another enemy. nm

[sirthomas66]

111. The Black Swan enters when needed most. For those who understand,

they receive collective hope. For those who do not, it simply increases their fear. And they demonstrate that fear through words like: "I'll not support something that will result in the indiscriminate death of unknown people." But Legion is killing thousands. Shall the Black Swan fly away because some must die to eliminate the death of many? Or shall he swim in the lake until the politicians remedy the killing through the sudden discovery of right and wrong? Stay tuned, we are at a Moment.

[TBF]

114. I call them heroes fighting for our 1st amendment. nt

[okieinpain]

117. the hacks were terrorism, and they should be hunted down and

sent to live with sarah palin in alaska.

[rhett o rick]

124. The Boston Tea Party was and act of terrorism. nm

[Raksha]

127. Coulda fooled me - I always thought the Boston Tea Party was an act of civil disobedience.

But then I'm an old hippie, so what the hell do I know?

[socialist_n_TN]

137. The Boston Tea Party occuring TODAY ..............

would be CONSIDERED by the modern day Tories as an act of terrorism. Although it WAS civil disobedience in truth. That's what happens when the PTB defines civil disobedience.

[madmax]

146. +1 from another old hippie.

[rhett o rick]

177. Glad to have been of help. nm

[nadinbrzezinski]

194. It was referred as terrorism by the London Press

especially those controlled by the East India Company... and an attack on property.

[nadinbrzezinski]

133. So was the real tea party

And the multiple tar and feathering.

[nadinbrzezinski]

135. So was the real tea party

And the multiple tar and feathering.

[Saxon]

148. Best laugh I've had in a week!

BTW I used to be an Okie back in the day so I understand your pain.

[walldude]

164. Hunt them down...

Bwhahahhahahahahahaha Like we hunted down Bin Laden.... nice try...

[okieinpain]

172. where is that dude, he needs to make an appearance. hell with

the ways are going right now he could probably walk into the U.S capital, get a bag of popcorn and go sit in the balcony and nobody would notice.

[rhett o rick]

178. Are all cases of whistleblowing acts of terrorism or just this case? nm

[Celtic Raven]

122. K&R nt

[Dinger]

130. K & R Walldude:)

[femrap]

136. Unfortunately TPTB

will use these Hackers/Friends as an excuse to clamp down on the Internet. I foresee an Internet very different in the future.

It's all so sad.

May Mother Nature show her power and put TPTB in its place of hell.

[MH1]

141. Yep.

[leeroysphitz]

142. The internet and our infant digital society are going to be our only hope.

They can't shut it down and they are finding out that they can't control it.

Thanks Anon.

[Raster]

152. If not for the free and independent Internet, Bush* would be two years into this third term as....

...pResident with Darth Cheney* and Rumsferatu* by his side. The entire world would believe that Iraq was responsible for 9/11 and possessed numerous weapons of mass destruction, all of them targeted at Homeland Amerika.

[Generic Other]

144. The government should fear the people

not the other way around

[GliderGuider]

151. Hear, hear!!!

:thumbsup:

[davidwparker]

149. They may think they have the power, but they do not.

Just as the original robber barons did not. I won't be easy, but I think all of us have had it with them.

[newtothegame]

153. Government is perfect. More governnment. MORE GOVERNMENT!!!! nt

[katsy]

156. Me too. Friends.

k/r

[katsy]

157. Dupe

sorry.

[BrklynLiberal]

162. Revolutions were never fought and won by Centrists & Moderates..including our own Revolution in 1776

[nadinbrzezinski]

195. Actually that MIGHT be the exception

since the Revolution was more a fight for power between to landed elites.

This is VERY recent historiography by the way.

(And I never called it a revolution, which got me into all kinds of trouble with a few of my college professors until I explained why), then they were in awe that a Sophomore could go there)

[earcandle]

163. Agreed! Wholeheartedly.

[shireen]

167. I wish they'd scare the greedy selfish bastards on wall street .... nt

[Gizmodeus]

170. K&R'ed

With a middle finger salute to those cowards in power. We are Legion and you answer to us.

[SteveM]

173. All those gun-toting GOPers don't get it. I got my own.

No attempt at hijacking, but this is where the rubber meets the road.

"Now the government is SCARED. They are clamping down, and shutting up. They are afraid because someone out there showed them that they do not hold all the cards, they do not run everything, and that people are getting pissed off, and that some of these people hold knowledge and power that cannot be stopped."

Which is why this rather reasonable old lefty got guns.

[RoccoR5955]

174. Anonymous are not criminals

They are comrades, in the finest meaning of the word. Their actions are no more than the same as someone handcuffing themselves to a bank's doors, so that customers cannot get in. It's just a different media format.

DDoS attacks are preventable, and had there been proper defense measures put in place, it could have been thwarted. It just shows how secure these places are. Heck, they even have card numbers. This was a warning to those who want to make enemies of those of us who want freedom. It didn't destroy anything, it just delayed a few people from getting onto a website. Big freakin' deal. They probably could have hacked into the system, from the web, or dropped a trojan on their web server, that would be able to get onto their internal network, and infect any number of machines there. THAT would be an attack. This was merely a lunch counter sit in.

[Kermitt Gribble]

176. K&R! n/t

[Jeffersons Ghost]

184. K&R, lets call it ciber-crime

[WillyT]

186. GIGANTIC K & R !!!

:applause::applause::applause:

:patriot:

:kick:

[sarcasmo]

190. Kick.

[Name removed]

191. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[nadinbrzezinski]

192. The hacks are probably the beginning of something

larger.. how larger, we don't know yet.

[Oceansaway]

193. K&R...n/t

[lonestarnot]

197. Walldude you left off torture and assasination.

[RollWithIt]

199. You can call it whatever you want, as of now it's really called a FEDERAL OFFENSE.....

And if they catch anyone they will go to prison for years.