I'm curious about how many people currently on unemployment

[pnwmom]

would rather give up long term unemployment checks than have the wealthy get to keep their current tax rates (for another 2 years)?

[stevenleser]

1. I asked the same thing once and got crickets...

[leftstreet]

2. Would you rather lose an eye, or have lime jello? n/t

[pnwmom]

4. You're obviously not on unemployment.

[PBS Poll-435]

11. SS/DD

Snark is fun...




Until somebody is actually affected.

[spinbaby]

3. They probably don't have much choice

You may as well ask if they'd like to give up eating.

[pnwmom]

7. So it's okay for us to choose for them? To decide that their benefits

aren't worth some compromising?

[Kweli4Real]

37. NOOOOO!!! That's just it ...

Many here are not choosing for them ... They are criticizing the choice made in their interest, by someone we chose to make that choice.

[gateley]

8. Yeah, if I'm looking literally being put out on the street because I can't pay

my rent and still can't find a job, I wouldn't be too concerned about what else was taking place. You gotta survive.

[SharonAnn]

5. Unemployed people are often desperate. They can't put off eating for a future benefit.

Many of us who have incomes would give up our (relatively small) tax cuts in order to prevent the wealthy from draining the Treasury.

But the unemployed? I wouldn't ask them to go hungry or to let their children go hungry.

[pnwmom]

15. And yet many here are saying that we should have stood on our principle

and opposed the tax cut extension at all costs -- even if it meant no extension of long-term unemployment.

[Capn Sunshine]

57. Because it's easy to only see what you want to see

in Magic Pony Land, rainbows are everywhere. IN DC, where the republicans just won an electoral victory because the right got a huge turnout, and the left crossed their arms and didn't, what real choice is there?

Those that stayed home , those that carp online day and night, and cheer for their own dancing (Millionaire) monkeys on their own favorite TV network, what strength do they have? If they refuse to vote, and they just did that, what do they expect from the President? Politically, he has to write them off and play to the indy middle. The ones that sent the "enough partisan bickering, do something!!!" message. Maybe you don't like this, but it's what just went down during your two year bitchfest.

Now, floating on your ice floe, having given up whatever power you had,and you did that quite consciously, you want to think a threat to those standing on solid ground holds any power?

The consistent naivete demonstrated by this is just amazing. NO wonder the President is pissed. The hard work he does goes unappreciated. The huge attacks mounted against him on a scale similar to the attacks on the Clinton's go largely undefended, the care he has taken to protect the most defenseless among us, ignored.

Where to next?

[Blue_Roses]

58. WOW..

:applause: awesome response!

...and it's so very true!

[Duer 157099]

6. Can you say faulty premise?

If so, then you can understand why these issues did not have to be linked the way they are.

[gateley]

9. And that nails it. You are so right. nt

[leftstreet]

10. +1

[pnwmom]

13. In a hypothetical world, they didn't have to be linked. But in the real world,

they have been. The Rethugs had no interest in extending them at all, because they're perfectly fine with people suffering and the economy continuing to worsen under their watch. Why? Because if the economy doesn't get better, it's Obama above all who will be blamed. Most Americans are ignorant enough not to hold Congress responsible. They might dislike Congress, but Obama will get the blame.

[Duer 157099]

19. So if the R agenda is for the economy to NOT improve (and I agree that it is)

then isn't the logical conclusion that this plan will accomplish EXACTLY that?

[pnwmom]

24. No, these checks will act as a continued stimulus on the economy.

Without them, we'd be falling into an even deeper hole. This is why many analysts think Obama got the better end of the negotiations. The unemployment benefits and a few of the other measures will act as a second stimulus package.

[Duer 157099]

26. I'm speaking of the OTHER side of the equation

The extending of the tax cuts to the uber wealthy. THAT is what will tank this economy further. Same way it's been doing for the past decade.

Oh, and in 13 months when UI ends again, guess what? There will have been SEVERE cuts to other social safety nets that otherwise would have helped to catch those who will lose UI benefits. To say nothing of those who have already exceeded their 99 weeks and thus got exactly ZERO from this deal. ZERO.

[pnwmom]

28. The 99ers will not get an immediate benefit from this package.

But the effects of the stimulus package (I agree with you -- the tax breaks to the wealthy don't fall in that category) will help the economy from moving into an even deeper recession, which will help everyone in the long run. Even the 99ers.

[Duer 157099]

31. Again, I am not objecting to the UI extension

I am strongly objecting to the premise that these issues were inextricably linked. It did NOT have to be that way!

[Kweli4Real]

38. See that's the Bullshit of this matter ...

to say these issues didn't have to be linked is NOT REALITY ... the reality of the situation was they WERE linked and PRESIDENT Obama's ONLY choice was to cut the deal or hope like hell the republicans backed down.

Why can't DUers get that simple point. All other arguments revolve around "should'a", "would'a", and "could'a" ... all words that describe "didn't".

PRESIDENT Obama did the right thing.

[Duer 157099]

39. LOL n/t

[CakeGrrl]

42. And the President made clear today why they WERE linked

The test vote to extend UI benefits was killed by Republicans. They were happy to let them expire. The President had that information to make his decision.

UI benefits would expire if not for the President offering the two year extension on all tax cuts because the Republicans will not be reasonable any other way.

Obama made it clear he has never wanted and does not want the upper-level tax cuts.

And today he CLEARLY stated that the Republicans were holding UI benefits and middle-class cuts hostage unless they saw something on upper-income cuts.

And now people will realize that more and more. (Except perhaps on this forum.)

And the upper-income tax cuts are a political football for 2012. Just what people wanted to see, but without having UI benefits cut off in the meantime.

If you don't depend on UI benes, you don't have much of a dog in this fight.

But the people who need that money DO. And I'll bet they appreciate this effort more than those who can afford to sit back and be pissed off at what they saw as "caving".

[Duer 157099]

47. Yes, I am aware that the pukes blocked the UI extension

But who else is? Was the media crowing about this, blaming the repukes for doing this, asking people to contact their repuke congresspeople and yell at them? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

I know how we got into this boat. I just happen to believe it DIDN'T have to happen that way, if our D reps truly had our best interest in mind.

This was a set up, anyone with any vision could see it coming a mile away, and most of us did. Then some people tell us we have to lay down and take it because that's just how it is.

Bullshit.

[Zenlitened]

53. Agreed.

I know how we got into this boat. I just happen to believe it DIDN'T have to happen that way, if our D reps truly had our best interest in mind.

This was a set up, anyone with any vision could see it coming a mile away, and most of us did. Then some people tell us we have to lay down and take it because that's just how it is.

Bullshit.

[suston96]

12. From Google.....

http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.nr0.htm

Household Survey Data

The number of unemployed persons was 15.1 million in November. The unemployment
rate edged up to 9.8 percent; it was 9.6 percent in each of the prior 3 months.
(Se

[RKP5637]

16. ... but the real unemployment rate is about 17%. n/t

[pnwmom]

20. Which is why it is so hard to get a job and why it is so critical

to keep those checks going. Besides providing income to those who qualify, all of those checks work to stimulate the economy overall.

[RKP5637]

29. Exactly!!! Also, I wish MSM and politicians used the "real" unemployment

rate. IMO it's a cover up when 9.8% is always repeated. The real figure of 17% should be used, that's what this country is up against, that's what people are up against when they look for jobs.

[dennis4868]

14. My neighbor....

who lost his benefits last week is now smiling for the first time in 3 months....he is close to losing his home but now may be saved for 13 months....thank the good lord (and Obama).

[pnwmom]

17. And there are millions more just like him. n/t

[dennis4868]

22. that's right...

but you would not know it reading posts here on DU today.....you would have thought Obama sent 4,000 troops to die in Iraq for a lie....

[Liberalynn]

25. No, he just transferred them to a different front.

Sorry. I don't oppose all wars. For instance the Revolutionary War, the Civil War and everything up to WWII had to be fought.

I just think continuing either of the current conflicts is worse than useless. It does little to protect our nation or any other and the cost of our troops lives is way too high a price to toss away on a war we can never win. So I disagree with the President there too.

[RKP5637]

36. Today these are wars of convenience, not wars of necessity, they are

profit makers ... we get sold a bill of goods, a lot of rhetoric, wave the flag, fear this, fear that ... much of it is a vicious circle ... it's a bad habit, might makes right, my country right or wrong. It's epidemic.

[RKP5637]

32. Many lives are swept under the rug in this country today, millions and millions one

way or another through no fault of their own, failed promises, did all the right things.

[Vincardog]

18. My unemployment checks ran out YEARS ago. I want to end the blow job the rich are getting

But my opinion doesn't count because I am long term right?

[pnwmom]

23. So how are you managing? n/t

[Vincardog]

59. By guile and luck

[Name removed]

40. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[stevenleser]

41. The OP specifically asked about people currently receiving benefits because...

they are the ones who would have had something to lose if the deal wasnt made.

[walldude]

21. LOL... the unemployment rate is around 10%.. the REAL

unemployment rate is more like 20%. This "compromise" helped a few people but there were many more including the 99'ers, and the people who don't file, who are screwed.

Do you really think we got the better end of the deal in this "compromise?" You don't think that Obama could have pushed to get help for more people since he was allowing the Republicans to win a compromise on the LIE that tax breaks for the wealthy create jobs and stimulate the economy? I could understand this compromise if it wasn't based on that lie but it is.

[pnwmom]

27. This compromise helped millions. And it indirectly helps others.

The unemployment checks and some of the other measures (not the breaks for the wealthy) will act to stimulate the economy -- at least enough to keep it from falling even deeper into the hole.

[walldude]

30. There are millions who still need help

A COMPROMISE would have been to extend unemployment to all who needed it until all this money that we are giving to the wealthy to create jobs started creating jobs. That would have been a compromise. But the fact remains that the tax breaks will not stimulate the economy or create jobs.

I could understand this compromise were it not based on lies. But it's a lie that giving more money to the wealthy creates jobs and stimulates the economy. A LIE. And Obama compromised on that very premise.

[Kweli4Real]

44. We? No ...

but those able to put food on their tables and keep a roof over their heads got a GREAT deal.

[MadHound]

33. But that's not the choice,

Obama could have pulled the funds for the UI extension from the surplus left over from the stimulus bill. That would have fully funded thirteen months of UI for everybody, and better yet, taken the gun away from the 'Pugs.

It wasn't an either/or choice. We could have funded UI and let the tax cuts for the rich to expire.

[Dappleganger]

34. Just how much help are the 99'ers getting from this bill?

Zip. Nada.

[FloriTexan]

49. yep, raising our taxes won't help us either.

[Liberalynn]

35. The Unemployment Extension was the only good thing.

I am not on unemployement and that extenstion was a good thing. I am happy that you got them and would not begrudge you them. However, the President should have made the republicans work harder for the tax cut for the wealthy and had them try to defend to the Amercian people, their opposition to the extension of Unemployment benefits, a position that is indefensible, first instead of just giving into them right away. Plus the democratic leadership at the very least should have been invited to the table instead of it being a private party between Obama and his two new best buddies Mitch and the Boner.

Where was his press conference saying those two things i.e. the tax cut for the wealthy and i.e unemployment benefits shouldn't be linked? Sure he says it now after the fact but the time to say it strongly was before he caved. That's my problem with Obama. He may claim he stands up to the Pukes and communicates the Dems possiton, but in reality, not so much.

I am on SSD and the president's continued willingness to "compromise" is making me feel like he sure isn't going to stand up to the Pukes to keep SS untouched. So yeah I have a pony in this race, and I feel like he is going to shoot my pony at the starting line. So I am afraid too that I will be out on the street and starving soon too. Aren't I entitled to my fears? Obama even personally appointed the cat food commission so I can't say I trust him with my S.S. money which I earned and paid for. And those personal savings accounts sound a lot like the Shrubs' plans to me to invest SS money in the stock market, and we all know what would have happened, if that plan did not get stopped. He gets stupid and wrong points for even talking about balancing the budget with SS money because that is not the governments money to begin with, and it is not part of the General Budget. But no he is all ready talking about messing with it before the Pukes even ask and calling it an entitlement program.

Hell I didn't go to an Ivy league school but I even learned that SS is not part of the General Budget and not an entitlement but a paid for right at the Community College level. As a scholar he very well knows both of those points but he is just ignoring them, because his new best friends want to wipe out the New Deal entirely and he is more than willing to accomodate them.

I am sorry but the minute Obama took office every word out of his mouth has been about bipartisanship and what he can do to keep the Republicans happy even though the Dems had a voting majority when he started. We lost that majority because he, Pelosi, and Reed kept failing to communicate the wisdom of the left's position and caving instead to the very idiots who got us into this mess. He stood by and laughed while the tea party was doing their shennanigans and said nothing in our defense. IMHO he hasn't done much for the people who actually elected him except for ignoring us, chastising us, and asking us to bow at the alter of his wonderfulness.

[Luciferous]

43. I'm unemployed but don't qualify for unemployment. If I did, I'd tell

them to keep it and take the tax cuts away from the wealthy!

[Name removed]

46. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Kweli4Real]

51. Okay, my initial response got deleted ...

and rightfully so, if for no other reason than my tone. So let me apologize and say ... if you have to start your response with "If I did ...", then it is likely that your response is merely conjecture and would more than likely change if you actually where in the situation that you are commenting on.

[Codeine]

55. I wouldn't.

And you wouldn't either, not if not getting that money meant homelessness.

[WhaTHellsgoingonhere]

45. Temporarily. That's the way it always goes. Lots of gradstanding...

...but UI is extended within a week or two *retroactively.*

Gone through it with this Congress before. Prepared to do it again.

[FloriTexan]

48. My husband is on unemployment...

soon to be a 99'er. It has kept our head above the water. Others are in much worse shape. The tax break and the unemployment benefits have helped us. Can't really afford to lose either.

[WillyT]

50. And The People Who Have Run Out Of Benefits, And Are NOT Getting Anything More ???

How do the currently unemployed feel about them?

Because you could be in that position in 13 months.

:shrug:

[The Hitman]

52. Do those people vote? Or organize?

Seems like a "Whats the Matter with Kansas" way of governing.

Obama neglects his base. Bush is gone, he can't count on the anti-Bush vote now.

[DirkGently]

54. False dichotomy. One was not traded for the other. nt

[Union Scribe]

56. We get it. Criticizing the compromise = we must hate the unemployed.

It's false and offensive and weak but it's been repeated enough that we get have all heard it by now.

It's the same thing as "If you want us to leave Afghanistan you must hate Afghani women and want terrorists to murder us all" and "If you wanted to hold out for a public option you don't want sick children to be helped by a compromise."

The people in charge aren't stupid. They're going to make sure they always throw a crumb at us while they're robbing us, so that their apologists can always ask some form of "Why do you hate America" to any critics. That's just the way it is.