Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Attorney: Assange Accused for Not Wearing Condom During Consensual Intercourse

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU
 
KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-10 05:27 PM
Original message
Attorney: Assange Accused for Not Wearing Condom During Consensual Intercourse
Attorney: Assange Accused for Not Wearing Condom During Consensual Intercourse

A former attorney for WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange has revealed that the sex assault allegations against Assange in Sweden center around his allegedly not using a condom. James Catlin says Assange has been accused of not using a condom during consensual sex with the two accusers. Catlin says Swedens justice system is likely to become the
"the laughingstock of the world" if the case proceeds. An international arrest warrant was issued for Assange this week.

http://www.democracynow.org/2010/12/3/headlines#2
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
RUMMYisFROSTED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-10 05:36 PM
Response to Original message
1. The same could be said for the State Dept.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-10 05:37 PM
Response to Original message
2. Is that what he's accused of? Or is the accusation that
he agreed to use a condom and then didn't? If the agreement to sex was conditional on the use of a condom, and the condom wasn't used, is the sex really consensual?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Sapphireprick Donating Member (18 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-10 05:44 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. The sex was consensual. Please read:
"Both women boasted of their of their respective celebrity conquests on internet posts and mobile phones texts after the intimacy they would now see him destroyed for.

Ardin hosted a party in Assanges honour at her flat after the crime and tweeted to her followers that she was with the the world's coolest smartest people, it's amazing!

Ardin has sought unsuccessfully to delete these and thereby destroy evidence of Assanges innocence She has published on the internet a guide on how to get revenge on cheating boyfriends."

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/opinion/swedens-reputation-...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-10 05:46 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. Thanks Much for that link to the Herald Sun!
:thumbsup:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TorchTheWitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-10 07:45 PM
Response to Reply #3
14. the author is a previous attorney of Assange's
Other recent articles say that one of the women had sex with him without realizing at first that he wasn't wearing a condom and told him to stop but he didn't.

They also didn't go to police to claim charges of rape. Both women have said from the beginning that they didn't have any interest in having him charged with rape - they wanted to know if he could be forced to submit to an STD test as they were both worried about a possible STD and possible pregnancy. I can see one of them being foolish enough to have sex without a condom while not only not protected from STD's but also not protected from pregnancy but not both and not within days of each other. And the very idea that either of these women thought of him as a boyfriend is ludicrous. Why in the world would either one of them think something so crazy especially since he didn't even live in the same country? This boyfriend claim and the one woman's comments about getting revenge on a cheating boyfriend (which, by the way, do NOT include lying that he raped you) smacks of the "she wore a short skirt" defense.

The comments by the author about their behavior afterward is bizarre. Has he no idea about rape victims particularly date rape victims who like and admire the guy are more than likely to be in denial? And these encounters started out as consensual which the freely admitted... it wasn't as though it was a forcible date rape where the victim had no intension of having sex with the guy at all. I went into denial for MONTHS and even defended what he did! Prosecutors are well aware of this and it's one of the reasons it's so difficult for woman to even go to the police at ALL, EVER. I never did and still have no intension to.

This sex without a condom in cases where both partners willingly complete the sex act without one somehow makes anyone a rapist by LAW is the craziest thing I ever heard of. Does a couple have to file for a special compensation in order to try to get pregnant??? Does a couple who have already been tested for STD's and trust that their partner isn't having sex with someone else and prefers a more reliable birth control method have to file for a special compensation? What if the man wants to wear the condom and the woman doesn't? Does that make HER the rapist? To believe that this is all there is to this law is just an absurdity, and it sounds like the same nonsense Assange's current attorney is claiming that no one else but this previous attorney who wrote the article is claiming.

Really folks, pay attention to what this guy is saying. In the first paragraph he makes this absurd comment:

"Apparently, having consensual sex in Sweden without a condom is punishable by a term of imprisonment of a minimum of two years for Rape". Absurd on its face. Then a couple paragraphs down he says something totally different:

"If consensual sex that started out with the intention of condom use and actual condom use ended up without condom, thats rape." That's totally different than what he said in the first paragraph. In the first paragraph we're expected to believe that in Sweden you must wear a condom whether or not you want to or someone is going to jail for a minimum of two years. Pleeeeeease. NOW what he's saying in THIS paragraph is completely different - there has to be an intent to use a condom by one of the parties. Well, at least he's STARTING to make more sense in this one! But where is the REST of the law? There HAS to be more to it or it's an absurdity on it's face. Where is the intent? How can there be such a thing as rape by accident with no intent? Especially when the very nature of condoms is that purely by accident with no intent whatsoever a condom can sometimes (and far too often for comfort) either break or fall off or both.

It should be obvious to anyone that both of these attorney who so far are the only people making this condom law claim have purposely left out the most important part of the law that MUST exist in order for such a law concerning condom use and consent - the part where if the woman only consents to sex if a condom is used and if the condom is knowingly or intentionally removed by the man yet he continues the sex act THEN it's rape. And THAT law makes sense. And low and behold, we just found out before either of these attorneys made these ludicrous claims about a condom use law that they both managed to forget to completely describe it came out in the media that one of the women accused Assange of having sex with her upon waking without using a condom and when she realized told him to stop (NO MEANS NO) but he didn't. DING DING DING!!!


Here's what Assange has been charged with...

http://www.aklagare.se/In-English /

The matter concerning Mr. Assange

Julian Assange has been detained in his absence charged with rape, sexual molestation and unlawful coercion. Mr Assange had appealed the detention decision issued by Svea Court of Appeal.

Today the Supreme Court has taken a decision not to grant Julian Assange leave to appeal. If the Supreme Court is to hear an appeal, leave to appeal must first be granted. Leave to appeal is only granted if the case is assessed as being very important to the application of the law or if other extraordinary reasons apply.

The arrest warrant is based on the detention decision that has now been examined by all three legal instances. The additional information requested by the British Police concerns the penalties for the other crimes, in addition to rape, that Julian Assange was arrested for. This information will be supplied immediately. The previous arrest warrant stands.


And here's how Assange's current attorney has described this fantasy deliberately incomplete law...

http://www.aolnews.com/ca/article/sex-by-surprise-at-he...
Assange's London attorney, Mark Stephens, told AOL News today that Swedish prosecutors told him that Assange is wanted not for allegations of rape, as previously reported, but for something called "sex by surprise," which he said involves a fine of 5,000 kronor or about $715.

"We don't even know what 'sex by surprise' even means, and they haven't told us," Stephens said, just hours after Sweden's Supreme Court rejected Assange's bid to prevent an arrest order from being issued against him on allegations of sex crimes.


No charges of rape? That's interesting, because I definitely see a charge of rape in Sweden's notice they posted concerning the charges brought after Assange lost his bid for appeal. And more interesting, I also don't see any charge that remotely resembles this "sex by surprise" claim that Assange's attorney says that is one of the charges. Call me crazy, but I'll believe what Sweden says the charges are and not Assange's current attorney nor his previous one.


Here's Sweden's penal code...
http://www.sweden.gov.se/content/1/c6/02/77/77/cb79a8a3...

Three cheers for anyone who can find this whackadoodle law Sweden has been accused of having as both of these Assange attorneys described it which no one with any sense could possibly believe exists.



Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Sapphireprick Donating Member (18 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-10 08:26 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. I understand a naive sweet teenager admiring a man after he raped her
Edited on Sat Dec-04-10 08:26 PM by Sapphireprick
But not a person who wanted to lie in order to lock men up in jail only because they cheated. I respect your believing the ladies, but I and most others (as you can see) don't buy the story of Anna Ardin, aka the woman-who-likes-to-set-men-up.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-10 08:30 PM
Response to Reply #16
17.  A person who worked in the Swedish foreign service
was stationed in DC and who was kicked out of Cuba for associating with a known US State Department front group.

I don't think that women get listened to enough in actual sexual assault situations. But there are also a small number of women who use that for dishonest purposes, just as a small portion of any group is dishonest.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
struggle4progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-10 08:47 PM
Response to Reply #3
20. Written by :"James D. Catlin ... a Melbourne barrister who acted for Assange"
So shake some salt on it
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
SidDithers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-10 07:53 PM
Response to Reply #2
15. And there's the key question...
:thumbsup:

Sid
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-10 11:39 PM
Response to Reply #2
27. I'm just asking but
how difficult is it to make sure a guy uses a condom?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Nite Owl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-10 05:45 PM
Response to Original message
4. Does the whole world need to
know this? It's just something to get him charged with.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-10 05:52 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. How do you mean does the whole world need to know this?
If you mean it's disgusting...that our kids have to hear this...and to know that everything now involves sex and people charging people about sex... I'd agree...it's OTT. But, then...Sex Sells and it seems the Media loves it and you don't get any attention about ANY ISSUE unless it involves SEXUAL ACTS and INTIMACY these days.

But, I wasn't sure what you were thinking in your post as opposed to what I might be thinking about your post that I answered. :shrug:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Nite Owl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-10 09:55 PM
Response to Reply #7
22. I meant that they were digging to find
something on the guy, anything to discredit him, just anything. There is no sense of privacy for anyone. I didn't mean you posting it KoKo! All these governments going after him like chickens without heads and this is what they charge him with!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-10 09:47 PM
Response to Reply #4
21. Do you realize how ironic your question is?
Assange is the guy's whose trying to dump 250,000 random documents selected by Manning because of their supposed belief in total transparency.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
girl gone mad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-10 11:16 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. You're comparing a private citizen with no power and limited means to world governments.
I can think of a few million differences, can't you?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-10 11:36 PM
Response to Reply #23
26. And many of the people in the documents he released
are ALSO private citizens whose only crime was trying to aid us. Do you honestly think that redacting some names (as he claims to have done) will actually protect all of those who have been helping us?

If Cheney had redacted Valerie Plame's name, how long do you think it would have taken people in Afghanistan to figure it out?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Sanity Claws Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-10 05:48 PM
Response to Original message
6. So this is what Interpol has devolved into
An international manhunt for someone who engaged in consensual sex without a condom.

Both Interpol and the Swedes look ridiculous. They're just puppets for The Powers That Be.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
somone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-10 05:57 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. Interpol is a joke
Corruption is rampant among its executives.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-10 06:30 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. transparently corrupt.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-10 08:32 PM
Response to Reply #6
18. Before this is over, I bet enough puppets to stage a Wagnerian opera will out themselves. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Jack Rabbit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-10 06:06 PM
Response to Original message
9. What's the fine for that?
$10? $20? $50?

Some of the people Mr. Assange has offended should be hanged, and this is all they have against him?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
girl gone mad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-10 11:17 PM
Response to Reply #9
25. Around $700. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
kgnu_fan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-10 06:42 PM
Response to Original message
11. Corrupt world
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Smarmie Doofus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-10 06:57 PM
Response to Original message
12. Ellsberg.
Ellsberg. Ellsberg. Ellsberg.

>>>>Ellsberg later claimed that after his trial ended, Watergate prosecutor William H. Merrill informed him of an aborted plot by Liddy and the "plumbers" to have 12 Cuban-Americans who had previously worked for the CIA to "totally incapacitate" Ellsberg as he appeared at a public rally, though it is unclear whether that meant to assassinate Ellsberg or merely to hospitalize him.<24><25> In his autobiography, Liddy describes an "Ellsberg neutralization proposal" originating from Howard Hunt, which involved drugging Ellsberg with LSD, by dissolving it in his soup, at a fund-raising dinner in Washington in order to "have Ellsberg incoherent by the time he was to speak" and thus "make him appear a near burnt-out drug case" and "discredit him". The plot involved waiters from the Miami Cuban community. According to Liddy, when the plan was finally approved, "there was no longer enough lead time to get the Cuban waiters up from their Miami hotels and into place in the Washington Hotel where the dinner was to take place" and the plan was "put into abeyance pending another opportunity".<26>>>>


--wiki

Ellsberg.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Sapphireprick Donating Member (18 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-10 07:01 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. Speaking of Howard Hunt
He can be seen in this video confession of his participation in the Kennedy assassination. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DbD_u7nUB_c
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
struggle4progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-10 08:45 PM
Response to Original message
19. That's one of Assange's lawyers, so shake some salt. And is it everyone's view
that in the era of HIV/AIDS people may not give consent conditioned on condom usage?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
provis99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-10 11:17 PM
Response to Original message
24. Assange obviously forgot to have them fill out the Sexual Consent Form.
Edited on Sat Dec-04-10 11:18 PM by provis99
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Canuckistanian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-10 11:42 PM
Response to Original message
28. Exactly HOW many other people were convicted of the same "crime"?
Show me the Swedish arrest and conviction records for such an offence.

This is bullshit. The Swedes are being pressured to make ANY charges just to get Assange in custody. From that point, it's all extradition treaties, baby.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Fri Jul 25th 2014, 09:55 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC