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blogslut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-25-07 10:41 AM
Original message
Greg Palast Pissed Me Off!
Last week, in a kpete thread concerning Palast's reportage on the Rove/Email/Caging/Vote scandal, another DUer (L. Coyote) posted a link to a YouTube video. The YouTube was film of double-bill speeches given by Palast and Robert Kennedy Jr. on May 1st. The YouTube was part one of eight parts. Being that I am lucky enough to have broadband, I decided to watch to the whole thing. That was, until I got to part three. That was when Greg Palast pissed me off.

To be more accurate, Mr. Palast didn't upset me. What he said upset me. His words upset me so much, I stopped the YouTube and left the computer. Here is what he said:

"A lot of people in this room think that George went in there to get the oil. Well, Exxon does not send in its exploration company with the 101st Airborne to find oil and bring it back so that Bobby can and fill up his yellow Hummer cheaply...(joke) Prius!

No. They send in the 101st to go in and find the oil and turn off the spigots. The lower the supply, the higher the price...So you think that the war is lost? Uh uh. The oil companies last year earned 120 billion dollars more profits than any set of corporations since the Pharoes. More profits than auto industries since the Model "T". When Bill Clinton was President the price of oil was $20 a barrel. Under George Bush, since the war tom toms started, the price has never gone below $50 a barrel. Twenty dollars a barrel...fifty dollars a barrel. Mission Accomplished.
"

I know the Iraq war was never about defense or terrorism. I knew it was about oil and money. The thing is, I always thought it was about getting the oil. It never occurred to me that it was about turning it off.

Many things about this administration upset me, but this...this is a whole new outrage for me.

Watch all 8 parts of the Palast/Kennedy speeches. Palast will infuriate you. Kennedy will inspire you.

Watch here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=du9QWpCWbbY&mode=related&search=


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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-25-07 10:43 AM
Response to Original message
1. turning it off.
Edited on Fri May-25-07 10:43 AM by seemslikeadream
yep and Kennedey was standing right next to him
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The Velveteen Ocelot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-25-07 10:45 AM
Response to Original message
2. Yep. Read his book, "Armed Madhouse."
It's all about how they want to control the oil market in order to drive prices up. Right now the Saudis control OPEC. Bush wants to control OPEC, and the only way he can do that is by maintaining control over Iraq's very considerable oil supplies.
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wtmusic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-25-07 10:48 AM
Response to Original message
3. Unintended consequence
Exxon would have preferred to have an accomodating nation of stooges from whom to steal, possibly keeping gas prices lower but getting a great "deal" on their crude. When the stooges started to object and oil didn't flow because of near-anarchy, they chose the second best option -- raise prices through the roof.
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SheilaT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-25-07 10:49 AM
Response to Original message
4. At the risk of being
completely stupid here, are you mad at Palast for telling you something you didn't already know? (For me the idea that they went in to shut off the spigots so as to control the price of gas is new, but it certainly makes sense.) Or are you mad because you don't think he's telling the truth?

I'm confused, and I'm at work at present so watching the youtube piece isn't possible.
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blogslut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-25-07 10:51 AM
Response to Reply #4
8. sigh
Please read the OP again.
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Demit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-25-07 11:05 AM
Response to Reply #8
14. Having to reread something doesn't always mean the reader is dense.
It also can mean the sentiment was expressed in a confusing manner. I think I get that you were being cute with your hook—counting on the fact that Palast is thought of as a good guy here—to get people to read your post. But what you meant wasn't necessarily as crystal clear as you think. JMO.
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SheilaT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-25-07 11:10 AM
Response to Reply #14
16. Thank you.
When I saw "Sigh, reread the OP" I did go back and read and and still couldn't understand why the OP was pissed at Palast.

In fact, if the OP really is that angry at Palast, the anger is totally misdirected. Killing the messenger is never a good idea.
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blogslut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-25-07 11:14 AM
Response to Reply #16
18. To be more accurate, Mr. Palast didn't upset me. What he said upset me.
If that's not clear enough for you, then I apologize.
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WiseButAngrySara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-25-07 12:30 PM
Response to Reply #18
29. Honestly, it was unclear to me too. This idea is not new to me
but I can't remember if the source was Palast or not (maybe kpetes' previous post). It infuriated me too, but I wasn't infuriated at the source. Your post does suggest that Palast himself angered you! thanks for clearing that up.
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SheilaT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-25-07 12:56 PM
Response to Reply #18
34. Sometimes I'm slow on the uptake.
Glad I get it now. As I said, sometimes I'm slow at these things.
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-26-07 08:52 AM
Response to Reply #8
46. Okay I read it twice
and I am asking you to answer Sheila's question.
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-25-07 10:49 AM
Response to Original message
5. It's about control of oil.
Edited on Fri May-25-07 10:50 AM by mmonk
Not all the people lined up to privatize and lease are American companies either. But what all this assures is price and oil traded in dollars.
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Dhalgren Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-25-07 10:50 AM
Response to Original message
6. Let me understand what you are saying.
You are not pissed-off at Palast, but are pissed-off at our government because of the information Palast was relating. Right? I mean, it is not Palast's fault that we are the biggest bunch of simpletons and saps since the formation of the Confederate Army. right?
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Nickster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-25-07 10:51 AM
Response to Original message
7. That's why the OPEC members hated Saddam. He had the power to dump a ton of oil on the market
or take a ton off of the market. OPEC was subject to his whim. OPEC wanted to keep Iraqi oil off of the market and they've been pretty successful since the first Gulf War. Iraq has never been able to get to pre-Gulf War levels of production and after 5 years of this mess, it'll take a long time to get much oil out of there. Just like Palast said, the less supply, the higher the prices go. If Iraq becomes stable and they rebuild their oil infrastructure, the supply goes up and all the people with their hands in the oil money jar lose out.

Even Iran is making a bundle off of the current situation. All of this unrest is dumping tons of cash into Iran. If Unka Dick has his way, he'll start a war in Iran and take their oil off line as well. Which means that Saudi Arabia takes up that much more of a share in OPEC, and the number 2 and number 3 possible resources of oil are out of business (Iraq and Iran). This tightens the grip of Saudi Arabia over the world's oil supplies and further into our pockets.
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sabra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-25-07 10:52 AM
Response to Original message
9. from today's WSJ: OPEC won't open the spigots to help with gas prices
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-26-07 08:29 AM
Response to Reply #9
42. USG can open the spigot, from the National Reserves.
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Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-25-07 10:52 AM
Response to Original message
10. Yes and no
because much of what is driving the price of foreign oil is the drop in the dollar's purchasing power. The dollar has lost 40% of its 2000 worth, thanks to Stupid's combination of eliminating tax revenue from his own class while engaging in profligate spending on the biggest budgets buster of all time, the MILITARY and UNNECESSARY WAR.

This war was never about grabbing Iraq's oil. Careful reading of the PNAC wet dream caused me to reach the conclusion that the war is part of a larger strategy to control all shipping through the Persian Gulf, and that means CONTROLLING the oil that is sent to the rest of the world, not owning it outright.

The problem with that, of course, is that the rest of the world is pouring research dollars into developing alternative sources plus renewable energy. Even if the PNAC wet dream succeeds, something that is looking more and more impossible every day, the world will have moved on and the US will be sitting on a sea of nasty petroleum with no place to unload it!

The problem with right wing Deep Thinkers is that they're always using football strategy while the rest of the world is playing chess.
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glitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-25-07 11:04 AM
Response to Reply #10
13. Good post. nt
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Demit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-25-07 11:09 AM
Response to Reply #10
15. Agree. It's like when Jughead managed to amass all the money in the world...
The rest of the world just switched to another means of exchange, and he ended up sitting (literally, I remember the particular panel) on a pile of worthless gold. LOL! I don't know why I remember that, I hardly ever read Archie comics, but it always stuck with me.
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tulsakatz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-25-07 12:25 PM
Response to Reply #10
28. that's funny.......

The problem with that, of course, is that the rest of the world is pouring research dollars into developing alternative sources plus renewable energy. Even if the PNAC wet dream succeeds, something that is looking more and more impossible every day, the world will have moved on and the US will be sitting on a sea of nasty petroleum with no place to unload it!


Imagine if they controlled all of the oil but all of a sudden no one wanted it!!
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elehhhhna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-25-07 10:52 AM
Response to Original message
11. Then there's the matter of Dick's profits from corollary spending...
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Clark2008 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-25-07 08:17 PM
Response to Reply #11
40. Or, in his case, coronary spending.



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wakeme2008 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-25-07 11:03 AM
Response to Original message
12. There is the Saudi connection
I do not have the post, but one poster pointed out the oil is un-metered and there is a pipeline into Saudi. The poster theory was Saudi oil is drying up and Bush is adding Iraq oil to the Saudi govt.
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BrainGlutton Donating Member (202 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-25-07 11:13 AM
Response to Original message
17. Here's the story of the war as Palast's book tells it:
It was done to drive the price of oil down. But it was also done to keep the price of oil up. But mainly it was done to keep the price of oil stable. Confused? Read on.

"There are kooks and cranks and conspiracy nuts out there who think George Bush, from the moment he took office, had some kind of secret plan to invade Iraq and grab control of its oil. They're wrong.

There were two plans. I've got them both. One is 323 pages long, the other 101 pages."

"Plan A:"

In February 2001, a meeting organized by Colin Powell's State Department was held in Walnut Creek, California, in the home of Falah Aljibury, an Iraqi-born consultant on Iraq's oil industry. The "Three-Day Plan" they came up with was "an invasion disguised as a coup," "kind of a Marine-supported Bay of Pigs." Saddam was to be replaced by some Ba'athist general cashiered by him, possibly the exiled General Nizar Khazraji -- "the secret group was already contacting Saddam's generals to switch allegiance. Then, according to their playbook, there would be snap elections, say within 90 days, to put a democratic halo on our chosen generalissimo."

"Crucially, the quickie coup-cum-invasion had friends where it counted. "The petroleum industry, the chemical industry, the banking industry," Aljibury told me. "They'd hoped that Iraq would go for a revolutiojn like other revolutions that have occurred in the past and government was shut down for two or three days" . . .

The idea was that no matter which strongman the Bush team designated, they would "bring him in right away and say that Iraq is being liberated - and everybody stay in office . . . everything as is." And by "everything" he meant, first and foremost, the key thing, the oil ministry and state oil company. While the Walnut Creek committee was busy-busy with many topics, Aljibury said, "It quickly became an oil group."

"Plan B:"

But in November 2001, following the U.S. victory in Afghanistan, the Pentagon, dominated by neoconservative PNAC members Donald Rumsfeld, Paul Wolfowitz and Elliot Abrams, had other and very different ideas:

"It was nothing like State's three-day quickie. The neo-cons' 101-page confidential document goes boldly where no invasion plan had gone before: the complete rewrite of the conquered state's "policies, laws and regulations." Here's a sample:

* Pages 8 & 21: A big income tax cut for Iraq's wealthiest and complete elimination of taxes on business revenues.

* Pages 35 & 73: The quick sale of Iraq's banks, bridges and water companies to foreign operators.

* Page 45: The application for Iraq to join the World Trade Organization, kindly ghostwritten by U.S. government contractors.

* Page 28: A "market-friendly" customs law -- a kind of super-NAFTA -- aiming for complete wipeout of tariffs that had protected Iraq's industry from cheap foreign imports.

* Page 44: New copyright laws protecting foreign (i.e., American) software, music and drug companies.

Odd to attach to an invasion plan. It was more like a corporate takeover, except with Abrams tanks instead of junk bonds. There wasn't a whole lot of thinking going on about strengthening the borders against insurgents, disarming private armies or securing Baghdad from looters; and not a thing about elections or "democracy." . . .

<snip>

. . . Selling off banks and bridges was just the beginning. The would-be conquistadors left nothing to chance -- or to the Iraqis. At page 74, the plan's authors required Iraq to "privatize" (i.e., sell off) "all state-owned companies." . . . "

But it goes deeper than that: The core of the neocons' plan was to use Iraq to break the back of OPEC! Privatize the state-owned oilfields among several small companies, let them compete with each other, and they'll up production and drive down the price of oil and even Saudi Arabia will have to follow suit! That idea was Ari Cohen's baby, and he called it a "no-brainer."

After the invasion, the first American viceroy was General Jay Garner, who was committed to neither plan but inclined strongly towards Plan A. His own view was that Iraq's value to the U.S. was as a "coaling station," a base for projection of American power in the MENA as needed, the role the Philippines once played in the South Pacific. As for the oil, that would be left to the Iraqis to decide. Garner wasn't much committed to democracy in Iraq, for its own sake, but regarded it as an urgent practical necessity:

"In his rush to democracy, Garner had planned what he called a "big tent" meeting of Iraq's tribal leaders to plan national elections. Garner knew these characters well and figured he had only those 90 days to keep the Sunni, Shia and Kurdish factions under the tent from slitting each other's throats. The general planned to seal a deal before a slighted group would launch an "insurgency."

All that was unacceptable to the Pentagon neocons. Rumsfeld fired Garner on 4/21/03 and replaced him with Paul Bremer, who put off elections indefinitely -- even municipal elections -- while proceeding to implement almost every economic and legal element of Plan B by his own fiat. Order 37: Flat tax on corporations, individual income tax capped at 15%. Order 40: Iraqi banks sold off to three foreign financiers with no bidding process. Order 12: Iraq to become the only country on Earth with no tariff barriers or import quotas at all. Iraqi industry, limping along after 12 years of sanctions, was shattered by this. Agriculture too; Cargill flooded Iraq's market with wheat, driving Iraqi farmers out of business. And "Order 100 ensures that, "the interim government and all subsequent Iraqi goverments inherit full responsibility for these laws, regulations, orders, memoranda, instructions and directives," which effectively locks in the economic rules of occupation."

Hussein's prohibition on public-sector labor union activity, however, remained in place; 12/03, Bremer arrrested the entire board of the Iraqi Workers Federation of Trade Unions.

While this was going on several billion dollars in Iraqi oil revenue and U.S. reconstruction funds simply disappeared, but investigation is hampered by the Coalition Provisional Authority having been, according to some lawyers, neither an Iraqi nor a U.S. government agency -- and later on, it was dissolved. "The perfect getaway car -- one that simply disappears." In fact, some lawyers argue the CPA never had any legal existence in the first place, so there. (See this thread and this one.)

Every element of Plan B was implemented, except privatizing the oil industry. There were two big problems with that plan that had somehow escaped the notice of the neocon ideologues:

1. Saudi Arabia won't allow OPEC to be broken, and has the power to stop it. As Nawaf Obaid, a Saudi-born economist, think-tanker and member of the Saudi National Security Assessment Project, explained it to Palast:

"Obaid explained the oil facts of life. In the short term, Iraq's fields were trashed even before saboteurs torched them. The CIA and the Pentagon knew it no matter what Wolfowitz said to bobble-headed Congressmen. In the long run, however, many years from now, Iraq, with 114 billion barrels of proven reserves, might be able to crank up above its OPEC quota.

But that won't happen. The globe is littered with the economic skeletons of nationsl that flagrantly busted their OPEC quotas. There's the skeleton of Venezuela. In 1973, Venezuela broke the first Arab oil boycott. But in 1997, when Venezuela again ramped up production, punishment was swift. Saudi Arabia, which can live without big oil revenues for up to a year, opened its spigots and drowned the market. The price of oil dropped to $8 a barrel and Venezuela went bankrupt. Its government fell. The current President of that nation, Hugo Chavez, is now a very good member of OPEC, indeed its most frantic adherent to the quota system.

The Soviet Union was also givena price-cut whupping. In the 1980s, the Saudis dropped the price of oil to punish Russia for its wild expansion of oil-pumping capacity and for the Soviets' invading Muslim Afghanistan. This choking loss of oil income had a lot more to do with the Soviet Union's collapse than Ronald Reagan's crooked smile.

Saudi Arabia has kept its economic knife sharp for Iraq if, under neo-con influence, Iraq were to exceed its OPEC quota. The war-stoked jump in oil prices put $120 billion in Saudi Arabia's treasury in just one year (2004), triple its normal take. This gives the kingdom the cash to hold its breath economically should it need to drop the price of oil for a year to bring Iraq, or any quota-busting nation, to its knees.

Besides, said Obaid, why should President Bush allow troublemakers at the Pentagon to use Iraq to attack the House of Saud when the Saudi royals were so supportive of Mr. Bush's goals? "

2. The international oil companies don't want OPEC busted.

The five big international oil companies own some oilfields of their own, but they have to buy most of the oil they refine from the nationalized oil industries of the OPEC nations. You might think they would want to buy it as cheap as they can, so they can pocket the difference, or else charge less at the pump and sell a lot more gasoline, but it's not that simple:

". . . When OPEC raises the price of crude, Big Oil makes out big time. The oil majors are not simply passive resellers of OPEC production. In OPEC nations, they have "profit sharing agreements" (PSAs) that give the companies a direct slice of the higher price charged. More important, the industry has its own reserves whose value is attached, like a suckerfish, to OPEC's price targets. Here's a statistic you won't see on Army recruitment posters: The rise in the price of oil after the first three years of the war boosted the value of the reserves of ExxonMobil alone by just over $666 billion. The devil is in the details."

Maintaining the status quo for the oil companies requires holding down oil production, and Iraq has been assigned that sorry role since it was founded (it has 74 known oil fields and only 15 in production). In 1927, the major oil company execs met at a hotel room in Belgium and signed an agreement: The Anglo-Persian company (now British Petroleum) would pump almost all its oil from Iran; Standard Oil, under the name of the Arabian-American Oil Company (Aramco), would limit almost all its drilling to Saudi Arabia; Anglo-Persian would drill in Iraq’s Kirkuk and Basra fields but it would drill very little.

"When the British Foreign Office fretted that locking up oil would stoke local nationalist anger, BP-IPC agreed privately to pretend to drill lots of wells, but make them absurdly shallow and place them where, wrote a company manager, "there was no danger of striking oil." "


In the early '60s, the frustrated Iraqi government canceled the BP-Shell-Exxon concession and nationalized the oil fields, but that didn’t solve the problem.

". . . The OPEC cartel, controlled by Saudi Arabia, capped Iraq’s production at a sum equal to Iran’s, though the Iranian reserves are far smaller than Iraq’s. The excuse for this quote equality between Iraq and Iran was to prevent war between them. It didn’t.

To keep Iraq’s Ba’athists from complaining about the limits, Saudi Arabia simply bought off the leaders by funding Saddam’s war against Iran and giving the dictator $7 billion for his "Islamic bomb" program. "

When Hussein invaded Kuwait in 1990, he was hoping to increase Iraq’s OPEC production quota by adding Kuwait’s to it.

So why did Hussein -- a secular Ba'athist, no sponsor of Islamist terrorism, possessing no WMDs, contained as a military threat, yet arguably still useful as a counterbalance to Iran -- why did Hussein, finally, have to go?

"The answer was that Saddam was jerking the oil market up and down. One week, without notice, the man in the moustache suddenly announces he’s going to “support the Palestinian intifada” and cuts off all oil shipments. The result: Worldwide oil prices jump up. The next week, Saddam forgets about the Palestinians and pumps to the maximum allowed under the Oil-for-Food Program. The result: Oil prices suddenly dive-bomb. Up, down, up, down. Saddam was out of control.

"Control is what it’s all about," Lapham told me. "It’s not about getting the oil, it’s about controlling oil’s price." "

But neither could zealous neocon ideologues be allowed to upset the oil companies' apple cart. In May 2003, Phillip Carroll, former CEO of Shell Oil USA, former CEO of Fluor corporation, flew to Baghdad and confronted Bremer. Palast interviewed Carroll in March 2005 and got the story:

"The double-CEO laid down the law to Bremer. Carroll told me: Neo-con plan be damned, "I was very clear that there was to be no privatization of Iraqi oil resources or facilities while I was involved. End of statement." Furthermore, Carroll would permit no "De-Ba'athification" purge in "his" ministry -- oil.

The diminutive Bremer did not have the political testosterone to reply that, on paper, it was Bremer's ministry and as chieftain of the Provisional Authority, Bremer, not Carroll, was in charge. But Bremer understood that in the Great Game, a well-placed pawn, even one who used to play Kissinger's game, does not overrule a knight of the oil industry. Carroll's orders stood. "

Top global oil execs, including no Iraqis, met in Houston, 11-12/03, and drafted a 323-page plan, Options for a Sustainable Iraqi Oil Industry. Iraqis were to be offered seven options, all essentially the same: "seven flavors of state-owned oil companies." Privatization was not an option.

Ahmed Chalabi, a University of Chicago-educated neocon who fully supported the privatization plan and whom the neocons intended for Iraq's new president, was purged, and sought for arrest on espionage charges. His "governing council" was replaced by a new government headed by a Ba'athist blessed by the State Department. Bremer was booted out and the new Ambassador John Negroponte arrived to represent the U.S. in Iraq.

But it's not over yet. In February 2005 there was another shift in power, Negroponte was replaced by PNAC favorite Zalmay Khalizad, and Chalabi returned to power with the Shi'ites and became temporary oil minister. He fired Big Oil's favorites in the ministry -- but still did not dare try to privatize.

Where was W in all this? Who knows? But it appears both the Plan A and the Plan B team enjoyed the support of Cheney.

So there you have it. Why the U.S. invaded Iraq, and why we fucked it up: We went in with three incompatible agendas: Plan A, Plan B, and the stated aim of establishing a democratic government -- a promise that had to be honored in some form eventually, and was, with utterly disastrous results. With all that jerking back and forth, plus all that venality and corruption, plus the intractable political, religious and ethnic divisions among the Iraqi people themselves, how was it to be expected any good would come of it? Maybe if Garner had been allowed to do it his way, the situation could have been saved, but it's too late now.

And that's why American troops are still in Iraq and still killing and still getting killed. And that's why the Iraqi people are still suffering from high unemployment, destroyed infrastructure, and insurgent violence.

And that's why we're paying $3.00/gallon for gas at the pump.

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hootinholler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-25-07 12:25 PM
Response to Reply #17
27. Nice, it kinda hangs together.
I'm wondering how destroying the meters fits into this strategy. The unmetered oil is just being stolen then? Who is benefiting?

-Hoot
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-25-07 12:33 PM
Response to Reply #17
30. Interesting.. Thanks for the long snip about this. n/t
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orleans Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-25-07 02:09 PM
Response to Reply #17
35. damn BrainGlutton! you don't post much but when you do...!
i have to read it all later when i can concentrate better.

and as far as the "$3.00" (cough!)
http://gasbuddy.com/GB_Price_List.aspx
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Gregorian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-25-07 11:19 AM
Response to Original message
19. Iraqis are pawns in a war designed to level the global economic playing field.
That's my abbreviated version.

Mess up Iraq so not only does the world (which is skyrocketing ahead of us) not get the oil, but we set it up so we control it.
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librechik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-25-07 11:30 AM
Response to Original message
20. yes indeedy
that was clear to me from the beginning--but then I'm one of those grassy knoll types who think thst turning off the spigots (and solar/wind power funding, and alternative fuels, and CAFE standards etc.) is so important that they would pull off a second Pearl Harbor incident in order to make it happen.

But I bet you won't go there with me yet.
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magellan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-25-07 11:30 AM
Response to Original message
21. Greg Palast has pissed me off several times
What it's really all about with the oil (control vs. usage) was just one of those times. Another was last week when he shattered any remaining illusions I had about why the corporate media is so fickle about what it reports and how they report it, and why both Dems and Repugs think the CM is working for "the other side". The truth is they're working for their parent companies -- huge corporations who will appease anyone who helps them make money, and that includes the government which has control over licensing and who gets the favors. It just happens that the Repugs have less compunction about the conflict of interest their pro-business agenda introduces into their relationship with the press, so they get better coverage.
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blogslut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-25-07 12:00 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. So very true
Have you seen "Orwell Rolls In His Grave?"

If you get Free Speech TV, look for it. They play the documentary occasionally. Great overview of how our news is shaped by less than honorable motives. Palast is in it too! He's everywhere! Pissing me off!

:)
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magellan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-25-07 12:17 PM
Response to Reply #22
25. Yes!
"Orwell Rolls In His Grave" is one of the very first documentaries I saw on either FSTV or LinkTV when I was deep in the process of awaking from my political slumber three years ago. Isn't that the one where a corporate media big wigs says, "News has become OPINION" with a big greedy smile on his face?

You probably share the same love/hate relationship with Palast that I do. I love him because he's one of a handful of American journalists left in this world who can be relied upon to uncover the truth and explain the complexities in terms anyone can understand.

But I sincerely hate what he's telling me. :mad:
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blogslut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-25-07 12:21 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. yeppers
That's what I'm talking about.

Palast speaks. I get angry.

I dig the guy but keep it under your hat. ;)
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-25-07 12:36 PM
Response to Reply #22
31. Netflix Users can get "Orwell Rolls" and as you say ...it's an excellent
overview. I keep recommending it to everyone...even the Repugs.
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blogslut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-25-07 12:56 PM
Response to Reply #31
32. I forgot about teh Netflix
You are correct. They carry the documentary.

I think BuzzFlash and the Free Speech TV site sell the film as well.
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DiverDave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-25-07 12:07 PM
Response to Original message
23. So, let me get this straight
Edited on Fri May-25-07 12:07 PM by DiverDave
your pissed at him for telling the TRUTH?

or am I missing something?
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blogslut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-25-07 12:14 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. It's a mystery!
Just call me Ms. Cryptic. :)
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DU GrovelBot  Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-25-07 12:56 PM
Response to Original message
33. ## PLEASE DONATE TO DEMOCRATIC UNDERGROUND! ##
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HardRocker05 Donating Member (486 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-25-07 03:44 PM
Response to Original message
36. it was about *control* of the oil, one way or the other. nt
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ms liberty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-25-07 07:42 PM
Response to Original message
37. Yes - it's not about the oil - it's about controlling the oil...n/t
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-25-07 07:58 PM
Response to Original message
38. cannot help myself.. must pick a nit
pharaohs

:P

sorry could not help myself...carry on

signed,
The Spelling Nanny
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blogslut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-25-07 08:06 PM
Response to Reply #38
39. It's cool
I couldn't remember how to spell it. I tried teh Google cause it likes to correct my spelling as well. I typed in pharoes and it asked:

"Did you mean pharos?"

I knew that wasn't right so I went with what I had. Thank you. I really do care about correct spelling. Grammar, not so much. :)
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-26-07 08:27 AM
Response to Original message
41. AND, Palast does not tell you the WHOLE STORY in this video, just his part in it.
We do not get the BIG picture from Palast in this video because he does
not communicate the research of others investigating the election fraud.

Votes were switched so the Oilmen Junta could continue their illegal War.
If you survived the caging, purges, long lines, and challenges, there was
still a 3% chance your Kerry vote was switched to a Bush vote.

In a large subset of Ohio voters, 1 of every 34 votes in the 2004 Presidential election in Ohio, a 6% Kerry-Bush vote-switch is evidenced. This is blatant, and yet the authorities have yet to respond. The US Attorney for Ohio has been informed, and the FBI has also. Meanwhile, Gonzales said, at the Press Club speech, that DoJ takes "voter fraud" seriously. I guess he really does understand the difference between "election fraud" and "voter fraud" after all!

Is this too complicated for the political hires at DoJ to understand?
Read the article. See this proof:
he 2004 Ohio Presidential Election: Cuyahoga County Analysis
How Kerry Votes Were Switched to Bush Votes
http://jqjacobs.net/politics/ohio.html

"I define "vote-switching" as major candidate cross-voting. One major candidate cross-vote changes the election margin by two votes; as one major candidate loses a vote the other gains the cross-vote. Vote-switching is distinguished from cross-voting because impact on results varies depending on for which candidate cross-votes are counted. Vote-switching results when the two major candidates are collocated in the same ballot order position, either from ballot switching between such precincts or voters cross-voting at such locations....."

Here is a thumbnail of a deskpicture-size screen capture illustrating the evidence.
The article introduces the notation. Full-sized image URL: jqjacobs.net/politics/images/cuyahoga_precincts_subsets.jpg



There is a PowerPoint introduction to the article too:



http://jqjacobs.net/politics/vote_switching.ppt
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OmmmSweetOmmm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-26-07 08:31 AM
Response to Original message
43. I've been saying that for quite sometime and in fact posted about it
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dkofos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-26-07 08:39 AM
Response to Original message
44. It's true. And on top of that, haliburton, kbr, bectel and others
get to carve up $125 BILLION in "WAR" funding.

It's good to be friends of king DICK.
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-26-07 08:50 AM
Response to Original message
45. Don't Forget who the world's largest arms dealer is, YOU and ME, the USG!
This too will change with the paradigm shift.

The 1,099 Trillion Principle. http://jqjacobs.net/anthro/ancestors.html
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Bucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-26-07 09:17 AM
Response to Original message
47. That's one theory to explain the logic-free shenanigans called Bush's behavior
I suspect the oil price spike was a welcome, but entirely unintended consequence of the war. Palast makes his money off portraying the Bushies as competent masterminds. The truth is that they and their corporate sponsors are simply positioned to turn a profit not matter which way the world's events turn.

The was about getting control of the oil fields. The fact is that US troops' top prioity in Iraq was securing the oil fields. That's not about secretly manipulating insurgents into blowing up the refineries and pipelines. Apply Occam's Razor liberally here. Palast's hypothesis about shutting it all off is maddening, but entirely unsubstantiated.

The history of Bush's performance in office soundly answers the "Fuck Up or Mastermind?" debate.
.
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nealmhughes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-26-07 09:55 AM
Response to Original message
48. Palast's analysis echoes my own, as the real danger of Saddam was not merely
booting the various kings, amirs and princes out of their gold plated toilet-seated palaces and place the oil revenue at the disposal at the feet of all the Arabic speaking world, rather than the "have" states, but that his method of direct invasion of the al Sabbah regime in Kuwait in failure, he opted to threaten to turn the tap wide open, formenting unrest in the street of Mecca, Rihayd and rippling thru the streets of Damascus and other places where the Saudi/Kuwaiti/UAE largesse never seems to find its way.

That is also the "danger" of Iran. Not old men in turbans practicing nationalism cum Shia fanaticism, rather that of a state surrounded by enemies outright or allies of enemies. Their one winable tactic that is possible: turning the tap wide open, driving the price of oil down, down, down (apologies to T.S. Eliot).

Controlling oil production is a tactic. Controlling oil flow is a strategy.

Of course, the OilCo with the weaponeers in tow would love to do both. What good is it to have expensive oil and not even a hint of public transportation in the majority of the nation and literally a captive nation as a consequence if one cannot keep the people in penury and profits maximized?

One would assume that any analysis of the "oil problem" would come down to in either Marxist or Chicago analyses, that the "danger" would be a spigot wide open, therefore ensuring that the spigot be guarded carefully by arms. And a massive screwing to all in the way.
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OmmmSweetOmmm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-26-07 11:01 PM
Response to Original message
49. Thank you for the link to this video. It was incredible! As to RFK Jr. ... he has to go for
elective office. I had written to him before the last congressional election to run for my district (he's a resident) but never received a reply. A fantastic Progressive did run and ousted a long standing Bushbot here and Kennedy supported him all the way. Now it should be his turn. He is inspiring, eloquent and smart. He can talk to an audience as if he was talking to each individual. It seems that the problem with his voice isn't as bad when he speaks loudly. BTW...I have loved him for quite sometime, but now I'm in love!

As to Palast. I have followed him since before the war and still cannot get over how all of his information has been kept in the dark by MSM. Even having a best selling novel didn't help. He has given the rights to his book, Armed Madhouse over to public domain. He just wants the information to get out there. Bravo Greg!!!!!!!!
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Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-26-07 11:15 PM
Response to Original message
50. surprise
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Warren DeMontague Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-26-07 11:20 PM
Response to Original message
51. No matter how you slice it, the answer is always the same: STOP USING GAS.
Stupid fucking war to control the oil market? STOP USING GAS.

Global Warming? STOP USING GAS.

God Dammit Five Bucks A Fucking Gallon That's An Outrage Why I Never? STOP USING GAS.



Yeah, I know. My car runs on it, too. But the answer to ALL these problems is not to "demand" our "right" to an eternity of cheap petroleum- because one way or another, it's going to run out and it's fucking up the planet in the meantime- the answer is to make finding clean, renewable technological solutions to powering our shit the NUMBER ONE IMMEDIATE PRIORITY.
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