Ok...I'll ask again..if the prez caves on the tax cuts, would you STILL want him renominated?

[Ken Burch]

Poll question: Ok...I'll ask again..if the prez caves on the tax cuts, would you STILL want him renominated?

Note...that's "renominated", not "re-elected". This is not a discussion about voting Republican. OK? Are we all clear on that?

Obviously, there would still be a SLIGHT difference between him and Palin even if he caved on that. He wouldn't be a Democrat anymore, but he'd still be slightly not as bad.

[Radical Activist]

1. If Congress votes the wrong way will you blame Obama?

[dflprincess]

2. If he signs the bill n/t

[Radical Activist]

19. I would love to see him veto

and force them to choose tax cuts for the middle class or none at all. :)

[Ken Burch]

3. I won't blame him if he FIGHTS against Congress doing that with all his might

Obviously, he's not a Democrat anymore if he willingly accepts making the Bush tax cuts for bazillionaires permanent, since doing that would mean that the government could never do anything progressive again.

If Congress voted to make the Bush taxless rates permanent, the prez would be morally obligated to veto the legislation.

You would agree that he has an obligation to ABSOLUTELY oppose making the tax cuts for the rich permanent, right?

And you would agree that Saul Alinsky, were he alive today, would absolutely oppose the prez' renomination if he went along with the cuts, right?

[Radical Activist]

6. Drawing lines in the sand

is so dramatic. I guess its a fun game for some people.

Yes, Obama should continue to oppose a permanent extension of the Bush tax cuts for the rich. In fact, he should maintain his current opposition to extending them even temporarily.

[Ken Burch]

7. If you don't draw lines in the sand, it means you stand for nothing.

How can you act like it's silly to stand up for your principles?

Saul Alinsky was all about drawing lines in the sand.

He would never support a politician who made the Bush tax cuts permanent. And you know it.

Doing that would have to mean that the politician who did it could never do anything progressive again.

There's no such thing as "nuance" or "context" on this issue. It's a moral absolute.

[Radical Activist]

8. "could never do anything progressive again"

Calm down. At the worst, it would mean some good things have to be cut until Democrats take back Congress in two years. Then the tax code could be fixed.

The 2012 primary has nothing to do with this issue. Standing up for principles can be done without the Veruca Salt silliness.

[Hardrada]

9. Calm down, put your hands in the air, middle class, while

we grab the rest of your money!

[Ken Burch]

10. You didn't read my whole post.

I was talking about what happens if the tax cuts are made permanent, not just extended until 2012.

The 'pugs won't settle for just keeping them in place for two years, you know.

Do you understand the difference between the scenario I was talking about and the one you were talking about?

[Radical Activist]

11. You didn't comprehend my post.

There's nothing permanent about the tax code. Even if the cuts are made "permanent" they can still be changed by act of Congress next year or after the next election.

[Ken Burch]

20. You know perfectly well that no Congress would ever put higher taxes for the rich in place

If they were stopped this year.

[Radical Activist]

24. It has been done before. It can be done again.

You have a habit of stating things as absolutes that are anything but. I'm not impressed by that tactic.

[Ken Burch]

26. And YOU have a habit of not considering ANYTHING any Democratic politician does a betrayal

n/t.

[Radical Activist]

36. You must not read my posts.

I do that all the time. I do have a habit of responding to hyperbole, which is why you usually don't like my comments. Exaggeration doesn't help make your argument with those who are informed.

[grahamhgreen]

14. Yes, absolutely, with his equivocating mealy mouth language, he continually sets the stage for

Our disasters.

[Erose999]

42. If Congress "votes the wrong way" they'd still need a near impossible majority to override Obama's

Veto. So ultimately the ball is in Obama's court. Hopefully he will actually post some damn offense instead of his usual strategy of "getting picked and then playing crappy defense".

[MannyGoldstein]

4. It's only caving if it's not the result he wants nt

[Ken Burch]

5. Fair enough. We could then ask...does he STILL have the right to claim to be a Democrat

if he DOES want that?

[PBS Poll-435]

12. Might even renominate him for the Nobel Prize

Either Way!

[Ken Burch]

22. It's actually incredibly EASY to get nominated for the Nobel Prize

All you have to do is to get somebody(your spouse, the pizza guy, a really intelligent chihuahua)to write a letter to the Nobel committee nominating you.

You can even nominate yourself.

[PBS Poll-435]

30. Yet I never win

:cry:

[Ken Burch]

32. Did your chihuahua use "spell check" on the nominating letter?

They make a big deal about that on the Selection Committee.

[BzaDem]

13. I think there's a big difference between making the upper end tax cuts temporary and permanent.

If he extends the middle class tax cuts permanently, with only a temporary extension for the upper end tax cuts, that would make the tax code MUCH more progressive in the long run.

If he fights for that, can't get it, and therefore has to extend all the tax cuts for a year or two, I wouldn't be happy at the result, but I don't want to see the huge 310 billion dollar hit to the economy that a middle class tax cut expiring would have on the economy.

Both of the above options would NOT lead to endless reauthorizing of the Bush tax cuts for the rich. After option A, a bill to make the rich tax cuts permanent wouldn't even pass the Senate. After option B, Obama could just let them all expire in 2 years for deficit reduction purposes (once the economy is back on track).

If he for some reason makes the rich tax cuts permanent, I would be very disappointed, but that isn't going to happen. He (for good reason) would much rather have the middle class tax cuts expire than permanently extend the tax cuts for the rich.

[Name removed]

15. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[grahamhgreen]

18. FDR raised tax rates on the rich - thats what you do in a depression, not lower them.

[Ken Burch]

21. We'd praise the prez to the skies for finally growing a spine!

You're assuming the man would NEVER be rewarded for standing his ground.

It can't be worth letting the rich get out of paying taxes just to save the middle-class tax cuts.

[grahamhgreen]

16. In two years, on said trajectory, we will lose the WH, and the cuts will be permanent, most

Understand that.

Thats the repub srategy. Temporary= permanent.

[Hannah Bell]

17. +100.

[Liquorice]

23. We will lose the WH if he is not renominated. nt

[donheld]

25. We very well lose the WH if he is renominated

if he refuses to fight for any kind of principle.

[Ken Burch]

27. You don't know that.

Renominating an unpopular incumbent is just as sure a route to defeat as challenging an unpopular incumbent. The unpopular almost never REGAIN popularity(note I said "almost", so I'll concede that it's possible that one other incumbent besides Harry Truman could come from behind to win at some point in future history).

[Erose999]

43. If he passes the cuts for the rich, "we" will lose the WH even if he's re-elected.

[TexasObserver]

28. Other. I don't do absolutes when it comes to presidential races.

It all depends on the situation in 2012. No one decision on his part will make up my mind.

[SoCalDemGrrl]

29. Yo Obama are u listening to the base?? Oh I thought not :(

[slackmaster]

31. Yeah, let's shoot ourselves in the foot, nominate someone else and lose

I see there are lots of brilliant political strategists here!

[Ken Burch]

33. you're assuming it's him or nothing.

n/t.

[slackmaster]

34. If not Obama, then who?

TIA for your reply.

[Ken Burch]

35. It could be anyone who can present her or himself as a leader with guts and convictions

I don't have any one name.

[Erose999]

44. In the words of Brando: "Whaddya got?". I'd just about rather write-in vote for Elvis Pressley

than Obama at this point.

[ecstatic]

45. It is. No black vote= No Dem President

Get it?

[Ken Burch]

46. You're assuming I'm talking about replacing the prez with a white candidate

You could nominate someone like Barbara Lee as well.

It's not as though the current president is the only African-American whose capable of winning the office.

[BlueIris]

37. For a variety of reasons, including the fact that I have lost all confidence

in the man himself, I feel renominating Barack Obama would be political suicide for the Democratic Party. The possible outcome of the tax cut fiasco won't change my perspective that it's already too late.

[Safetykitten]

38. He will not cave, and this renomination stuff is nonsense,

[Iggo]

39. That's up to the Democrats.

I just vote for whoever y'all nominate.

[closeupready]

40. Unequivocally NO.

However, if he ends up being the nominee (likely, no matter what he does), I will support him.

[Poboy]

41. Whats with the 'permanent' hangup? Even if he does the temporary route,

it is effectively PERMANENT. Hell, he ALREADY has extended them. WHY? What good has it done???
We've all seen this movie before. He lets this shit continue, and it is PATHETIC.