There must be a subset of travelers who won't object to enhanced TSA screenings

[MrScorpio]

I'm talking kinky submissive people with a fetish for authoritarian types in uniform.

The rubber gloves and the flashlights, you know that that kind of public humiliation gives people like that the biggest thrill in the world. Shoot, they're getting it free with the price of an airplane ticket, when it costs a pretty penny per hour from some of the best dommes at your basic out of the way fetish houses.

"Yes, Mr TSA guy, do with me what you will. I've been a bad girl/boy."

Sounds like the fodder for quite a few letters to the editors at Penthouse Magazine, if they still do that kind of thing.

They probably won't speak up. but if you're at the airport and you see someone with a big ol' smile on their face after getting the once over, just give 'em a wink for me.... You'll know what they're up to if they wink right back to you.




However, for everyone else, people who think that this is a complete affront to personal freedom for the sake of a bureaucratic police/security state... I'll be in that category.

Makes me glad that I haven't flown domestically in over twenty years.

[hlthe2b]

1. I was horrified by what I witnessed a few years back...

and have moved "heaven and earth" to avoid flying since. It isn't popular with work and probably cost me, but I just don't feel like subjecting myself to the stress of flying unless it is an emergent situation.

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

2. I don't really care.

So someone's hand brushes over my junk. Big fuckin deal. Sure as shit beats a 5+ hour car rides because I'm outraegd over security. Yes it's stupid. So what. I'll live. I suppose if I had no life and needed things to be outraged over I'd understand where people are coming from.

[wtmusic]

9. Say someone's hand gives your junk a big squeeze.

Still don't care? Just wondering where you draw the line.

It's not like these people are MDs with a license to lose.

[tinrobot]

24. I'm sick to death of being afraid when traveling.

People stopped being afraid of terrorists, so now they're afraid of the people protecting us from terrorists.

No fear for me, regardless. I seriously doubt anyone would want to squeeze my junk, but I'm absolutely not going to be afraid of some tin badged TSA agent.

[MedicalAdmin]

40. During the pat down, when their hand gets to your "stuff"...

just calmly look down and loudly proclaim to the room "no. I won't meet you later in the bathroom. (and if gender appropriate) No I won't let you suck my cock. Get the fuck away from me!"

[jberryhill]

64. Intimidating a federal officer is a felony, btw

[whathehell]

34. Well, goody for you..

but just because you admittedly don't understand why a lot of people are bothered by having their "junk" touched by strangers doesn't mean they have "no life" and need "things to outraged over".

Way to be defensive

[jefferson_dem]

3. Actually...

I'm starting to really wonder about those who are so fixated on the "porno scopes" and "pat downs" as a "hot button" issue. Things are getting creepier and creepier...

[leftstreet]

5. Some of it is union bashing

TSA Employees Move Closer To Union Representation

November 15, 2010 – Even as the National Treasury Employees Union (NTEU) eagerly moves to a union representation election for Transportation Security Administration (TSA) employees, its president expressed the union’s determination to accelerate its lead role in the effort to secure much-needed collective bargaining rights for these employees. 

“The action by the Federal Labor Relations Authority (FLRA) in ordering an election in TSA sharply underscores the critical need for an administrative directive immediately granting much-needed and long delayed collective bargaining rights in TSA,” said NTEU President Colleen M. Kelley.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

[jefferson_dem]

10. Of course it is...

No surprise Sludge and the right wing echo chamber has been getting all hot and bothered over it for days now, even with not-so-subtle digs at Napalotano's supposed sexual proclivities.

Do people not remember what we went through in 2002, with the fight over union representation within the TSA? This is such an obvious play to smear and discredit this 'guvment organization'... Yet some here are serving as such willing accomplices.

[leftstreet]

14. !!

Exactly

Such short memories we all have

Although I suspect most people standing up for human rights in this instance haven't the faintest idea they're aiding an anti labor campaign.

[jefferson_dem]

15. Regarding your last comment...

I totally agree.

[jberryhill]

20. It's got that salacious aspect where everyone gets to go on about "molestation"

The same people that don't want children on airplanes in the first place.

[alarimer]

120. Human rights are way more important.

If I have to bust the union to get rid of these machines, so be it. So the fascist goons will have a union? Then it'll be even harder to get rid of those sick fucks.

For the record, a lot of people do not like being touched by strangers or ogled by who knows who.

[jberryhill]

123. So, take a stand

Buy a ticket, go to the airport, and be Gandhi of terminal five.

Without action, it's just words.

[emulatorloo]

22. You nailed it. THNks n/t

[GoneOffShore]

27. Nope - sorry to disabuse your world view

The TSA has been an out of control agency since the beginning.

Go on over to Flyer Talk - http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/travel-safety-security-2... /

There is a wide cross section of political opinion there. And everyone is against the TSA and the possibility of it being unionized. Unionization would protect all the clerks with very little oversight by the traveling public.

[leftstreet]

29. AND THERE WE HAVE IT!

Thank you for finally admitting your anti labor agenda here.

Nice going

Oh, and "Flyer Talk?!" Really?

[GoneOffShore]

74. And here we have another view.

My business was almost shut down by a labor dispute even though there were only three people working at our business - myself, my wife and an employee (who was not interested in being a union member). And we were not under any sort of union jurisdiction. Nor needed to be.

And my dad was beaten up by union members during a painters strike in the 1950's because he was a self employed contractor.

Yeah, I'm a little jaundiced.

[leftstreet]

81. So you don't hate TSA workers, you hate unions

Correct?

If so you should be able to post without resorting to bigoted statements, slurs and libeling of a segment of the working class you've never met.

Sounds fair enough

[GoneOffShore]

85. No - I hate the TSA and anyone who willingly works for that agency.

And I've met TSA clerks - the great majority of them are mall cop wannabees with no redeeming qualities.

If someone works for the TSA they should be shunned by relatives, friends, whoever.

[leftstreet]

89. Gosh I wonder if any DUers are TSA workers

[GoneOffShore]

97. If they are they should be ashamed.

[leftstreet]

98. LOL you're just being silly now

You took it a little far, don't ya think?

Hope you don't get written up over this

[GoneOffShore]

105. Really?

People who violate the 1st and 4th amendments of the Constitution daily shouldn't be ashamed of their jobs?

Really?

People who are paid to terrorize their fellow citizens shouldn't be ashamed?

Really?

What kind of bizarro world do you live in?

Advocating for the TSA and their minions is tantamount to accepting the intrusions they make into our lives.

You do realize that they are attempting to control "security" on all forms of public transport?

And take over private aviation? They're requiring the mule drivers on tourist barges to be "TSA certified"?

Anything to be safe is your motto?

[leftstreet]

108. blah, blah, blah, collective bargaining sucks blah, blah, blah, unions suck

yeah, we got it

you can stop now before you embarrass yourself further

[GoneOffShore]

110. Never said what you're saying I said.

However as I DID say that I've had a bad experience with unions and so did my dad.

I'm in favor of collective bargaining when the people involved aren't violating my rights as a citizen.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

131. there are some jobs decent people will not do,

Debt collector, tow-truck driver, telemarketer and TSA thug etc...

[jberryhill]

88. There is quite the class component to the discussion

I had not realized until tonight how much of it is about "them" touching "me".

Some of them are even, you know...

Even nursing agencies get "special requests" from some folks

[leftstreet]

95. It's extraordinary how they've been demonized so quickly

A legitimate conversation would be about Homeland Security, the current Administration and the Patriot Act.

Instead we've got creepy people hoodwinking sincere DUers by slurring TSA workers as 'thugs,' 'perverts,' and 'low IQ' workers.

All because of a potential union contract

In all my years as an activist I've never seen such a blatant targeting of what should be the 'wrong' side of the aisle. This used to be standard 'freeper' propaganda, lapped up like warm milk.

Bizarre

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

133. I was calling TSA employees pieces of shit in 2006

People object to the TSA unionizing not out of opposition to unions but opposition to anything that contributes to the permanence of this horrendous agency.

[jberryhill]

135. Well good for you

And she got over people having a "low opinion" of her as a consequence of what happened long ago, and decided that feeling shame from people who expected her to continue to be a victim is worth the effort. What others think is "expected" of her opinions is their problem.

I'm sorry she does not conform to your requirements as a person.

[MineralMan]

145. You know, I had never thought about it that way.

But, you're right, I think. Now you've got me thinking along an entirely new line. Thanks.

[jberryhill]

31. Oh, well, that settles it

Since "everyone" on Flyer Talk is against it.

Which, by the way, is not even true

And, I'm PHLCaptive (USAirways Platinum ; Star Alliance Gold)

[jefferson_dem]

33. FlyerTalk?

Is this a joke? I should care what those folks are chirping about, why?

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

130. bullshit!

If the sub-prime mortgage scammers were to form "The Brotherhood of Retail Mortgage Professionals" I swear some people on this website would defend them all the way to the wall.

If shitheads form a union, it is a union of shitheads.

[RKP5637]

7. Yep, very creepy, and many just go along with it all, and the creepy gets creepier. CNN just showed

showed them feeling up a little kid too.

[Skittles]

16. I hear you Jefferson

absolutely

[Name removed]

38. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[seabeyond]

42. why wouldnt anyone even consider this. a rape victim. control of who sees or gropes her/his

body.

why are people so unconscious of those that have suffered and just cannot willnot allow this to happen to them again.

i think about them every post i have made on these threads. and hearing people say.... i dont care if someone sees this old fat body... well, good for you. that is not everyone

[Name removed]

45. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Matariki]

50. The INSENSITIVE PART - is YOUR posting that people with concerns about this make them 'creepy'

Take a look at what you are saying. When offered one of very many good reasons why anyone would find this all very disturbing - YOU PERSONALLY ATTACK THOSE WITH OPINIONS DIFFERENT THAN YOURS.

[jefferson_dem]

53. Be honest. The "INSENSITVE PART" is that I don't share your concern.

Does that mean anyone is insensitive to rape victims? Please...get a grip.

[jberryhill]

58. Think about people who have fear of flying, for that matter

I was on a flight out of Fort Lauderdale one time, and some woman just freaked completely out and started screaming "We're going to die, let me out" as soon as the door close and the plane pushed back.

Plane went back to the terminal and we had to wait while they found her luggage.

I felt sorry for her, but at the moment, it was sorta tense.

[Matariki]

60. No, the insensitive part is your name calling and innuendo.

[jberryhill]

62. "Innuendo"? You got one of the Italian TSA screeners

The OP is nothing but name calling and innuendo.

The proposition of the thread is that if you aren't bothered by the TSA, then you are a pervert.

That is called "well poisoning".

[Matariki]

66. You be honest. Explain what you meant by this:

"I'm starting to really wonder about those who are so fixated on the "porno scopes" and "pat downs" as a "hot button" issue."

What is it that you're wondering?

[jberryhill]

77. It's the same mentality that thinks breast feeding is dirty or sexual

An airport security pat down is not a sexual act.

In order to travel safely next month, I had to permit someone to stick a needle into my arm and inject fluid. That was not some kinky s&m thing either.

[jberryhill]

57. Well....

I happen to know a rape survivor who:

a - thinks the DU uproar over this is silly, and

b - has no sympathy for people who spend the rest of their lives as perpetual victims

Only one I know. Sorry she doesn't fit your stereotype or want your concern and protection.

Oh, and she's flying with me to South America next month.

We just got our shots. Had to take an injection, obviously from some needle fetishist.

[Matariki]

61. Right. That settles it. You know one rape victim who speaks for all rape victims

and victims of child abuse and people who don't want their kids groped, etc, etc. And everyone else who demands a say over who can or can't touch their private parts.

Bully for you.

[jberryhill]

71. Oh, and you DO speak for all rape victims

I think not.

[Radical Activist]

69. Maybe someone needs to make

a porno movie out of it.

[somone]

4. TSA is striving to be the #1 place to work for people who like to probe and grope

There is no common sense anymore. Sickening.

[nadinbrzezinski]

6. Reality is that this is security theater

real security would be transparent to you... and hardly require what they are doing.

[RKP5637]

8. Yep, it's false security IMO and gets a big budget, lots of equipment and lots of

rubber gloves.

[nadinbrzezinski]

13. Well real security would still require them gloves

but in a different use.

[RKP5637]

19. Dylan Ratigan had a segment on today about screening that was interesting. Sorry,

I didn't catch the name of who he had on, but he was discussing that questions/answers on a purely non-discriminatory basis were far more effective than the TSA techniques being employed by the US. I was busy at the time, but I believe it was a Middle East airline that had been doing effective screening for years. Yep, rubber gloves would still be an item, I'm sure.

[nadinbrzezinski]

21. The former head of El Al

and Mexico City used him as an advisor after 9.11

Some of their security is just common sense, most is transparent to the end user, unless you know what you are looking for.

yes they do the security line and all that... but they also check each bag before you board your plane, as physically do it.

The pat downs started after the undie bomber, I suspect UNDER OUR PRESSURE.

[MrScorpio]

11. Exactamundo

Bureaucracy Gone Wild!

[jberryhill]

48. A few stats

Bureau of Transportation Statistics:
http://www.bts.gov/publications/national_transportation...


Table 2-16b: Prohibited Items Intercepted at Airport Screening Checkpoints


2006

Firearms 2,075
Knives 1,607,125
Box cutters 15,999

2007

Firearms 1,416
Knives 1,056,687
Box cutters 11,908

2008

Firearms 902
Knives 626,182
Box cutters 6,284

[GoneOffShore]

99. Tewwowists caught - 0

[jberryhill]

107. Your keyboard seems to need repair /nt

[GoneOffShore]

112. Thanks , but no.

I'm sorry I left off the 'sic'.

And indeed - the number of terrorists caught by TSA clerks is exactly zero.

[jberryhill]

121. You seem not to understand their job

In 2008, they kept 902 firearms off of planes.

I don't really know why anyone would think it a good idea to take a firearm aboard a plane, but I'm pretty sure your terrorist apprehension rate is also zero, along with your firearm seizure rate.

So, by my reckoning, that puts them 902 points ahead of you in the "stuff I'd care about" column.

[seabeyond]

12. i am working to understand the person not only willing, but enthusiastic with this basic disrespect

but i still have not been able to wrap my mind around that person. that they cannot look at these photos taken and not see the disrespect, pathetic... that anyone allows. that a person can grab a breast, or fondle a dick and not see the affront.

i really do not get it at all.

[Kennah]

17. Very true

They actually already have their own website here.

[Name removed]

18. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[seabeyond]

23. it is NOT medical. a lot of people are ANGRY that they must appear naked or be groped

doesnt matter if the tsa worker is into it or not. the PERSON does not want to strip for another or have breast or dick grabbed.

why is that hard for you to understand.

[jberryhill]

25. When you learn the grownup words for private parts

Then we can have an adult discussion.

The OP suggests that the people who are not angry are perverts.

Someone can disagree with you without being a pervert.

[seabeyond]

39. wow.... "grownup word"? really. k, not dick, penis.... geez. are you comforted. nt

[uppityperson]

52. PENIS penis PENIS penis PENIS penis PENIS penis

BREAST breast BREAST breast BREAST
TESTICLE testicle TESTICLE testicle
LABIA labia LABIA labia

thinking here, aha! "private parts" is a "grownup word"?
GENITALS genitals GENITALS genitals
GONADS gonads GONADS gonads

friend dressed as a cheerleader 1 halloween with "NAD" on their shirt so she could shout "GO NADS!"

Can we have an adult conversation?

[Name removed]

54. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[iris27]

75. Thanks, UP, I needed that laugh!

Was getting dismayed at the folks here who think we should all just shrug off being groped in the name of security theater...you cheered me right up.

[jefferson_dem]

56. A poster upthread just accused me of being insensitive to rape victims...

just because I haven't joined in the hysteria.

[jberryhill]

59. "hysteria" is a sexist term

This is one of those "if you don't see it my way, you are scum" things that people have.

A lot of people do not know how to handle simple disagreement.

That's okay, head over to the thread where if you don't like circumcision, then you hate Jews.

Obviously, San Francisco is going to need to do inspections to enforce the circumcision ban, so then we'll just merge the threads.

[seabeyond]

63. have you considered the reaction from people that have been sexually assaulted? nt

[jberryhill]

67. Yes, I'm married to one

And before you say something snarky, she thinks the uproar over this stuff is silly, and does not consider herself a lifelong "victim" who needs YOU, or any other self-appointed "defender", to stand up for her.

[seabeyond]

72. good for her.

i am glad to hear she is not a life long vicitim, i can appreciate that. truly. i also would not sneer at some victim if they were not able to put it in as healthy of a place as your wife. or who felt that they should have the choice of who they got naked for, or who groped their boob.

at the very least, i can be empathic with another, knowing that there are more than just one way to handle rape or molestation instead of assuming i was the only victim and it should be handle my way.

[jberryhill]

80. Truth be told...

She has an advanced degree in psychology and very little patience for others who, in her view, leverage their "victim" status for the rest of their lives.

But, yes, I understand that's just her. She's tough as nails and wicked smart.

And thank you for not going for the snark. I don't know that I would not have, and it is a credit to your good character.

[seabeyond]

94. i find it amazing though

that with an advanced depgree in psychology she would reduce a person desire for control of their body as a leverage for lifelong victim. and that she would have so little patience being a psychologist.

if a person is sexually abused from a child on, for a long period of time, i would think wanting control would be an important function in their ability to not be a lifelong victim using it as a leverage.

i find this really interesting.

i am not much into victimhood. i use it more as they were in an uncontrollable situation, powerless. but i, too, am not much into someone staying in victim role.

i know my mother was raised with alcoholic parents. the father was physically abusive. she was not a lifetime victim, but it was important she had a control and structured life as an adult. it was a need inside of her. very strong woman. very insightful, and yet, she needed that.

i have seen it with a couple other women that grew up with alcoholic fathers. so i assumed it was a norm. i never considered them victims or using a victim status.

sheeeit.... i can take this in a whole other direction too.... lol. like how women and men may feel they have the right to make the choice of nakedness in general. but i will stop here. i have kids to deal with.

[jberryhill]

103. The thing is

People have all sorts of phobias and neuroses that are relevant to air travel in the first place.

Nobody asks "what about claustrophobics?"

Or agoraphobics?

I was on a flight where someone went clean into a screaming panic attack when the door closed. Was on another flight where an alcoholic went into some kind of rampage, and the flight had to be diverted to get him off of the plane.

Maladaptive psychological conditions are.... Maladaptive. It is unfortunate, and it's not anyone's fault. But, yes, I totally understand that any number of psychological conditions may render someone unfit for any of an array of aspects of the flying experience.

I have a blind daughter and her partner has MS. It's a match made in heaven really because she pushes the wheelchair and her partner navigates. Now, it was no joy getting the two of them through airport security, but we don't expect the world to revolve around their conditios either. In fact, we have always discouraged people from going out of their way to accommodate her, because she needed to develop independence, which she did.

Perhaps a more sensible solution is to provide special assistance for psychological handicaps the same way airports provide special assistance for physical ones. But the entire experience is definitely unsuited for an array of psychological handicaps, and that's not new. Generally, though, therapy is preferable to catering to a cultivated psychological condition.

[Mimosa]

137. I was physically and emotionally abused, alcoholic stepfather, and one of his friends

I have a fight or flight response to any stranger who might attempt to feel my intimate parts.

I couldn't protect myself at age 12.

BTW, Israel has been under serious threats of terrorist attacks in the air since the 1960s and they do not have a system which violates the rights and dignoty of law abiding citizens and tourists.

The have investigative systems in place. When you book a flight they'll find out who you are. And their secority officers are highly trained professionals who treat travellers in a dignified manner. Why do Americans always settle for giving up our personal freedoms?

[seabeyond]

140. i can never acept or do stupid well. and that is what tsa is asking us to do

it is easier for the illusion of safety, then the time and training for the effectiveness of isreal security. i would think that would be a good job creation program with higher livable wage helping economy all around.

i am sorry you grew up as you did. i am a believer, the mere fact youa re a child, you deserve that right for a safe environment to grow. to many children dont. helps me better understand your other post..... "weak and timid", lol. i dont get that either, but then, i had been raised totally different.

[pinboy3niner]

116. Rape victims who "leverage their 'victim' status for the rest of their lives"?

That makes it sound lilke a trauma survivor's strong emotional reactions are a choice. Many rape survivors suffer from PTSD, something that clearly is not a choice, but a normal human psychological reaction to traumatic experience (and a recoginzed psychiatric disorder).

The notion that a sexual trauma survivor who expresses discomfort about being physically groped as a security measure is milking their experience to "leverage their victim status" seems to dismiss out of hand the very real concerns and emotions of people who have valid reasons for having strong psychological reactions to being subjected to these very intrusive search procedures.

Or is every trauma survivor who struggles with psychological issues merely faking it to "leverage their 'victim' status for the rest of their lives"?

[jberryhill]

118. Claustrophobics have valid strong reactions to being on a plane

Ergo, they don't get on them.

Anyone who has flown a lot has seen passenger meltdowns over all sorts of stuff.

I am not belittling any condition. Some folks are not suited to the experience for any number of reasons.

The point of this thread is to call anyone who does not object a pervert.

Subthreads include calling TSA employees perverts, union workers thugs, and people without college degrees untrustwothy.

This is an equal opportunity thread.

[tpsbmam]

106. And you know you can't generalize from an N of 1. I'm sure there are others

who feel the same as your wife. And others for whom this type of groping would be traumatizing. What bothers me is you and your wife belittling other rape victims who don't feel the same as she does or who have more lasting effects than your wife has had. Shame on both of you.

[jberryhill]

109. I'm not generalizing

Agoraphobics and claustrophobics can't handle going to the airport and getting on a plane, either.

The experience of flying may be unsuitable for any of a number of psychological conditions. That is not new, nor is it belittling anyone.

Being ON an airplane involves spending hours in cramped quarters with strangers. I had some dude who kept falling over onto me asleep one evening on a flight, and I didn't like it one bit. I'm sure there are people who would have found it traumatizing.

[tpsbmam]

122. You did, indeed, say this belittling thing about rape victims who feel lasting trauma

after rape:


b - has no sympathy for people who spend the rest of their lives as perpetual victims

IMO that is, indeed, belittling rape victims who don't react the same as your wife has. Great for her but shit, have a little damn empathy for those who don't fare as well.

[jberryhill]

124. I was actually characterizing the opinion of someone else

And the OP thinks I'm a pervert.

Is there some other thing you wish to call me?

[tpsbmam]

125. I didn't CALL you anything. I was challenging you on the

opinion of rape victims that YOU attributed to your wife. And I'm done here -- you're insistent on misreading what I said and refusing to accept responsibility for the things you yourself said.

And for the record, I think the idea that people who don't object to the tactile screenings are perverts is just plain silly. And I also think that the characterization of rape victims who continue to be traumatized by the rape as "perpetual victims" is belittling and completely lacking in empathy. That is NOT calling you names, it's addressing your statement. Period.

[jberryhill]

127. You are challenging me on someone else's opinion?

I do not have an opinion on the state of mind of others who have had a traumatizing experience which I have not.

If you want to argue with her, I will send you my address and you can come over for dinner. I was simply sitting at my computer and said "Hey, what do you think of this.". I do not own or control her, and did not intend to insult you or anyone by simply bouncing a question off of someone who, unlike me, would have an opinion based solely on her own experience. It is neither a universal opinion, nor one which I share.

My point is only that, yes, I agree that any number of people may have psychological conditions that render them unsuitable for any number of things.

Millions of people travel through airports every day. Necessarily, there are a number of them who have crises over lots of things that happen there. It's not my place to judge anyone. I would suggest that people who may not be able to deal with an airport, should consider avoiding airports, since I really just plain like people, and don't like them to be traumatized.

Again, the point of this thread is to call anyone who is not bothered by the TSA a pervert. Perhaps that sets a tone, but I believe I am entitled to state that I am not a pervert.

What evening are you free for dinner?

[tpsbmam]

129. It may be someone else's opinion but you're the one that gave voice to it here.

As for dinner...thanks, but no thanks. She's certainly entitled to her opinion and I'm certainly entitled to not think highly of her opinion. That's enough.

[jberryhill]

132. Well I surely regret that

Someday you may learn to express opinions without putting people down, but I won't hold my breath

Ciaio

[pinboy3niner]

136. Yes, it's perfectly reasonable to challenge an opinion brought here...

...even if the poster states that it's not his opinion, that he's merely reporting another viewpoint. An objectionable viewpoint doesn't get a free pass just because the one who posted it washes his hands of it. Especially when the posting promotes a false stereotype.

On one level, it's simply distorted and wrong to suggest that people who are trauma survivors who have difficulty moving forward are choosing to do so because that's desirable or advantageous (as if having to struggle with the effects of psychological trauma is such a great way to live).

I'd suggest that inability to make progress is more likely due to the fact that it can be extremely painful and extraordinarily difficult to face and deal with powerful traumatic experiences. Choosing to avoid that psychological pain is a very different choice from the one suggested by their characterization as people who "leverage their 'victim' status for the rest of their lives."

On another level, the 'professional victim' stereotype is one that is promoted by conservatives because it's useful in attacking and belittling the Left, and especially in attacking social programs as part of the effort to eliminate them. Yet another reason why expression of such views should be challenged and questioned.

[Matariki]

138. Jefferson Dem, i never said that

You either misunderstood me, or I communicated poorly.

I objected to your chararacterization of the concern others have as being "creepy" - that was your word. I suggested that one of the many reasons a person might strongly object to being groped in the genitals, particlarly by someone asserting authority over them, would be rape qnd sexual abuse survivors.

Dismissing people who are opposed to this as having perverse motives is what I find insensitive. Calling people upset by it "hysterical" is condesending and worth noting that the word very often is used as a sexist perjorative.

[MrScorpio]

28. I really don't know how to answer this...

I'm trying to figure out if you're serious or not.

[jberryhill]

35. As am I

Your operative assumption appears to be that people who aren't in a froth over this are perverts of some kind.

My wife and I are flying to Colombia in a couple of weeks, and quite frankly I was more bothered by the yellow fever vaccination than anything TSA does. My arm felt like a MFer for three days.

Now, granted, that wasn't as much of an inconvenience as keeping my live typhoid refrigerated before Kenya last year, but there are a lot of nuisances considerably higher on the scale.

[pitohui]

79. i'll look for you to post a cool trip report when you get back! (on flyertalk if not here)

i was lucky and had no reaction to my yellow fever shot but i've heard of others who had your reaction

trying to plan a south america trip myself but i'll prob. be going solo ... have only visited bolivia and will prob. start by going there first

[jberryhill]

82. You want to know the thing that really scares me

MIA to CTG on....

Avianca

I don't care if the TSA wants to do an anal probe, knowing that Avianca has, like, a 50/50 shot of flying into a mountain.

[haifa lootin]

44. But is a pervert with a 2 day course in feeling up passengers the same as a

radiologist with a 2 year associate degree? Something is telling me...no.

[jberryhill]

46. You think there are no perverts in medical jobs?

Lol...

Biggest child molestation case in my state ever, involves a dentist.

Believe it or not, however much you may look down on those beneath your station, having a degree doesn't make one a pervert or not a pervert.

Every pedophile priest has one.

[leftstreet]

47. You have evidence to prove TSA workers are 'perverts?'

[jberryhill]

49. They don't have degrees, and get low pay

Obviously, they are the wrong sort of people.

What more do you need to know, really.

[pitohui]

76. yeah that line bothered me too

the thing that gets me is that this is normally highly intelligent poster but he feels obliged to weigh in and have an opinion about something HE KNOWS FUCK ALL ABOUT

it's just discouraging

sick of the hysteria

i want to have the option of the patdown, since i fly VERY often and i have already been exposed to a lot of ionizing radiation in my early life and for medical

i do not want this option taken away from me, for profit, so they can sell more scanners...i've been patted down a lot, as i often travel solo and i am a nervous person who apparently has a suspicious profile and you know what? it still isn't sex, it isn't sexual assault, it isn't rape, it's just a fucking JOB

[mainer]

104. Who's getting all these stimulating pat-downs? Not me.

I always get a bored-looking female who just feels the back of my bra, under my arms, and the sides of my legs. Not once has anyone touched my breasts or anywhere close to my privates. I seem to be missing the exciting stuff.

[riderinthestorm]

119. Me too. 38DD and... nothing.

Count me in as one of those whose knickers are NOT in a knot over this.

I am grateful when I can fly instead of drive. We drive all over this country for business and I am sick to death of it. I LOVE flying when I can and revel in it. The minor security checks don't bother me in the least. When you fly frequently and see the security at other places - well, nothing is a problem anymore. Try going into a bank in Guatemala with Ouzi armed guards who frisk you to just change travelers cheques. Sorry but the whiners on this thread have no idea what's going on in the rest of the world who have real security concerns. I know, I know, most of these procedures aren't "real" but kabuki theatre for the peace-of-mind of the masses, but that's politics.

My (then) 13 year old went through the new scanner at Heathrow in February with my husband. While I was a tad concerned, she wouldn't have had the trip of a lifetime to visit her older archaeologist sister and do cool medieval stuff in York. Did someone store her image? Sigh, I know it's possible. Does she know or care (yet)? No. Was taking that "chance" worth every moment of a world class experience? Imho, yes.

[lostnfound]

139. It's new. Have you flown lately? If you show reluctance to go through the fancy scanners

they give you a too-detailed inspection. Just happened to a colleague of mine. I've had them touch my breasts; it was weird and unespected, and it felt very rude to have someone do that. But in the new police state, we are supposed to act like docile livestock.

[mainer]

142. I just went through the scanner because I was in a hurry

so no, I haven't faced an enhanced "patting-down" recently. But the old pat-downs never bothered me.

[GoneOffShore]

26. Nope. It's the Kettles and Gomers who say "Keep Us Safe"

At any price -
And think of the children.

While the children are being felt up by a bunch of fascist thugs who couldn't hold a mall security job.

[stray cat]

30. So you are no longer flying - it's a long drive across country but I guess you don't travel far

[MrScorpio]

41. When I was in Virginia, a trip home took between 9 and 11 hours to Michigan

And only took time, plus the cost of three fill ups and turnpike tolls.

In the end, I had my own car to drive.

I really love driving and did it before I went to Germany and after I got back.

I'm back at home in Michigan now, with no need to go anywhere and grateful that flying is not a necessity for me.

[seabeyond]

43. 2 yrs ago went from tx to cape cod. last yr from tx to SF. best decision i made

driving and no longer flying. was truly the best and thank tsa for pushing me to drive instead of fly

for so many reasons

[stray cat]

32. A lot has changed in 20 years - do you fly or swim when you travel overseas?

[MrScorpio]

36. I flew back from Germany in 1998 and haven't flown since

Since then, I drove every place that I need to go.

Mostly because all of my trips took less than a day and I wanted to drive my own car at the eventual destination.

Although I've had pleasant flying experiences before, they were all in the 80's... Today, I'm not envious of plane travelers in the least.

[TexasObserver]

37. Bill Murray: masochistic patient. Steve Martin: sadistic dentist.

Little Shop of Horrors, the musical.

[sally cat]

51. Yes, there have been many posts here today supporting the new techniques.

[GoneOffShore]

115. And what a great shame that is.

[Kurska]

55. I knew all that bondage play would come in handy some day.

Airport here I come!

[uppityperson]

65. Are you seriously saying anyone who doesn't object is kinky submissive with a fetish for authoritari

authoritarians in uniforms? Seriously? Seriously?

I fly and will continue to fly and think this "enhanced" patting down/feeling up/groping is idiotic and they'd be so much better off screening all baggage, but don't think I'm kinky/submissive with uniform fetish since I will continue to fly and not speak up at the airport.

[MrScorpio]

87. The first part is clearly a joke.

You know, like "funny. Hah hah"?

Oh well, I tried.

[jberryhill]

114. Oh

I didn't know it was a joke, either.

After the spine chilling rhetoric about "Nazi death camp guards" (from another thread) and being repeatedly told that I am some bootlicking submissive sheep, because I really don't give a shit on this one, I'm willing to take others at their word about what an odious person I must be for not making the last twilight stand for liberty in the B terminal.

Reminds me of a "we need to rebel" speech one guy gave in the smoking room at Dulles one evening. It was quite stirring, and full of "Are we as Americans going to put up with this?". Whatta guy!

Flying has sucked since they banned smoking on the planes.

[uppityperson]

144. Oh. The winking part I took as a joke, but took the rest at your word.

sorry I was mistaken, will try to not do that again.

[Radical Activist]

68. If I could pick who patted me down

I'd be all for it.

[pitohui]

70. a subset? the overwhelming majority don't object

and if you think a patdown from a security officer at an airport is in any way stimulating, trust me, i BELIEVE you haven't flown ANYWHERE in over 20 years

even the bitchiest german girl in europe can't make this sexy, it's just a boring job, it is what it is

do you think your doctor is getting hot off your medical x-rays or off your wife's breast exams? do you think the patients who don't object to mammograms/x-rays are into s/m

you must not know much about s/m is all i can say

and, as you say, you don't fly

why do people who don't fly insist on speaking up just to make it harder for the rest of us? you don't fly but you're willing to gamble my life and my safety on your vague ideas about what it must be like?

it isn't s/m, it's a fucking job, maybe a stupid job, but a job...and mature adults know it

i wish people would object to the scanner, which can actually increase my lifetime risk of getting cancer, but people who don't fly are astro-turfing the web w. their sick shiny fantasies of what a patdown is like and they don't care about what they're doing or who they're hurting

why don't you buy a fucking ticket and see for yourself? sheesh! a patdown is not sex, it is the safe alternative to ionizing radiation administered by someone w. no medical reason or training...

[jberryhill]

73. Oh, didn't you know? Educated professionals can't be perverts

Only hourly wage employees are perverts.

It's in this thread - low income earners are of low moral character. Go wallow in it for a while and learn.

[pitohui]

83. i guess i've been looking for love in all the wrong places

yeah, the more this thread goes on, the more the OP digs a hole for himself

he knows nothing about travel, or about s/m, or about...well, anything regarding the subject at hand but by gum he's gonna post about it anyway

the thread offends on every level, would read again i guess, if only to shake my head in amazement about what people believe about flying or s/m if they've never flown or done s/m

[brooklynite]

78. Maybe the answer is...people aren't being inconvenienced

Yes, there are certainly people who HAVE been, but statistically, they represent a very small share of the millions of people who fly each day. They DO however become a significant portion of the news discussion because of the drama of the stories.

FWIW, I've made 10 flights in the past two months, including 3 trips abroad. I've had no delays getting through airport security, despite carrying a host of electronics and odd wires and cables.

[LostInAnomie]

84. I don't really give a shit.

I'll live.

[pnwmom]

86. I doubt that many women who are in the mammogram years

will suffer all that much.

Maybe the solution is for men to start having yearly mammograms? Or "junk"-o-grams?

[jberryhill]

111. Too few men check for testicular cancer

It's a similar routine.

Of course, I'm looking forward at this point to entering the prostate exam years....

[pnwmom]

126. I think the prostrate exam is more similar to a woman's yearly

"internal" exam.

The mammogram doesn't yet have an equivalent for men. They don't flatten testicles between two metal plates, do they?

They're still working on it . . .

[jberryhill]

128. As much as I support equality...

...I'll pass on the testicle crushing metal plate thing, and take my chances.

[bluetrain]

90. What happens with taking pets on board? Can you refuse to allow your animal to go through the cancer

machine? And, if so, are they then groped by security? If so, how many dog bites are we predicting?

[MrScorpio]

92. Dogs don't do kink.

I don't think that they'd pleased at all with much of the gropage and irradiationization.

[joshcryer]

91. TSA people are gross.

I won't let gross people touch me let alone get near me.

[sally cat]

93. The public has put up with this for years, politely, and this new crap is what we get?

[Renew Deal]

96. How do you know how much this costs at the "fetish house?"

[MrScorpio]

102. I have my sources

Besides, my stint in Germany was an eye opener.

[HipChick]

100. Meanwhile the conversation over at flyertalk is much different..

Realism? I'm off for a mileage run next weekend, and hitting up the carribean for the holidays...secondary screening checks coming back into the US are much worst

[jberryhill]

113. I got that last month

I had apparently been in Switzerland "too long" not to have exceeded the $600 limit on goods acquired abroad, so they had to find out for themselves that, yes, I am a cheap bastard.

[mainer]

101. I'm more pissed at gate agents who say my bottle of water...

counts as a "carry-on item". Happened to me last month, when I tried to board with a purse, a laptop case, and a 12-oz bottle of water I'd just purchased at the airport concession. Gate agent wouldn't let me board until I combined my "three items into two", and she kicked me out of line until I would comply. So I stuck my bottle of water in my purse, and only then would she let me board.

THAT is what I call authoritarian abuse.

[jberryhill]

117. I have two words for you

"cargo pants"

They don't call them that for nothing.

And for some reason, they never seem to notice that a fanny pack is a luggage item, because it is worn. You can, of course hold your purse or laptop case in front of you, so they don't see it, or have a loose sweater hanging over it.

[mainer]

141. "Do these make me look fat?" Uh, yep.

The problem with cargo pants.

[Raine]

134. I would bet many repukes are probably going to enjoy it it

you know how they love wearing diapers and being spanked since their so naughty.

[KillCapitalism]

143. They are the type of people who live their lives in fear.

The fear is induced by RW propaganda. When they see someone of middle eastern descent, they automatically think "terraist." They usually never go into big cities for fear of being victimized by "brown" people. They're also generally afraid to travel to Europe, or interact with Europeans b/c they're communists who are out to get us all.