I like Jon Stewart, but he needs to spend some time in the South,

[The Backlash Cometh]

I think he's a little out of touch with how aggressive Republicans can be, and how absolutely they are not interested in compromise. The softer the Democrats get, the more the Republicans will take. That lack of compromise was apparent to anyone who listened to Bush, Cheney and Rove. We wouldn't have gotten this far without two things happening: The first, that Republican policies self-destructed. The second that the Democrats showed a little toughness. And now he wants us to hand the brass ring back?

Maybe we all misunderstood his message?

[madmax]

1. Didn't he say something about Rick Sanchez

and then something about still being employed. Being Jewish I'd bet he has a nodding acquaintance with bigotry and such.

[The Backlash Cometh]

2. Maybe he does understand bigotry, but he's now in a place where he

can pick and chose where he lives, which means it's easier for him to be civil. Maybe he should spend some time in the South where people don't have those kind of options.

[madmax]

5. Point taken and understood. :) nt

[emulatorloo]

12. Yes, to say that Sanchez is not a bigot and CNN should not have fired him. n/t

[LaurenG]

3. Here's the message. It starts with you (each of us). Meaning it has to start somewhere

and he's telling the world to get on it. It's like being in a relationship with a substance abuser, you keep the focus on yourself and keep working to make yourself better. They will either change or have no one who cares what they say. It may take a decade but while the time passes we still work on our own lives and attitudes.


edit:typo

[The Backlash Cometh]

4. Kumbayaaaaa

He's in the political news business, albeit in a satire sort of way. Holding people accountable for their actions is the only way to drive the point. If we used Jon Stewart's way, there would have been no Nuremberg trials.

[madmax]

6. Another well made point.

Interesting thread starting here.

[LaurenG]

35. Is this a message that you don't want to hear?

and who said anything about not holding people accountable?

[The Backlash Cometh]

40. When you hold someone accountable, it's not pretty.

It's very messy. The media might even look like it's on a vendetta when it finally gets around to reporting someone's malfeasance. The question that people tend to ask is, why did they take so long?

It ain't pretty. And I think Jon wants it to be wrapped up and tied in a bow.

[w8liftinglady]

7. yeah...Jon needs to meet a few of our neighbors

...and I can pretty much assure you they aren't democrats.WARNING..you WILL be offended.
http://www.texasrebelknightskkk.com/
http://www.stormfront.org/ku_klux_klan/
http://www.uwkkkk.com/
http://www.whitecivilrights.com/
http://www.volksfrontinternational.com/
http://www.independentskins.com/
http://www.whiteknightsofamerica.com/

[The Backlash Cometh]

13. Those are the extremes. In Florida we deal with another type of character.

REDs Retired and Extremely Dangerous!

The bigotry of older residents sometimes is breath-taking. The danger they pose is they are ready to follow anyone who tells them what they want to hear. If you don't have a strong counter-argument, or have someone willing to show them their hypocrisies, all kinds of chaos rule the day.

[w8liftinglady]

19. those are all within a 100 mile radius of where I live.

we.also.have a HUGE red elderly population...who hates social programs...except theirs,of course.Oh,yeah..and fix the roads...but cut my taxes....and clean water...but cut my taxes...oh,yeah.....................................................................

[The Backlash Cometh]

24. It's crazy.

I know one couple who embraced the extreme of hypocrisy. They hated government interference with everything. One of them took a government position on a P&Z board and did everything he could to help out his buddies who wanted to take shortcuts. He began to see the light when his name showed up on a lawsuit. However, his wife is a Beck fan nut.

Saddest thing of all is that they are really two of the nicest people you will meet. Just very committed to what they believe in, even if they did live long enough to see how it harmed their community and themselves.

[laundry_queen]

38. LOL that sounds like my dad.

Wants his taxes cut. Thinks because he doesn't have kids in school, he shouldn't pay school taxes (nevermind he had 2 kids go through public school). Wants his income taxes and provincial taxes cut. But complains about the state of the roads, and how lax the policing in town is. He doesn't even seem to understand that the money for the cool new hip replacement procedure he had (he traveled because he wanted a different procedure than the usual replacement), that was completely covered by his provincial health care, comes from his taxes! Thinks government is insanely bloated. Thinks programs that don't benefit him don't deserve to exist. Only things that benefit HIM, matter. oy.

[MatthewStLouis]

8. Jon Stewart knows a rational government is liberal by default.

Yes, his political message may have been obtuse--but I would expect that from a comedian. People are more likely to listen to a rational reasoned message than one that is flaming liberal (or blathering conservative) right out of the gate. Jon Stewart is giving his audience credit for being able to figure out who the elephant in the room is (republican obstructionists). If you don't know the problem with our government is republicans, you probably don't watch Jon Stewart or Stephen Colbert in the first place.

That's my two cents worth of free thinking.



Favorite rally sign: I reserve the right to change my opinions with new information!

[emulatorloo]

11. I was struck by the fact that nobody at the rally said anything about VOTING other than Tony Bennett

Jonathan Alter pointed this out last night on Countdown.

I like Jon Stewart quite a bit, but it seems to me that he is prisoner to the "Persona" he's created. It is basically apolitical, cynicism about everything and every body. You see him step out of that in the interview segments sometimes.

However I remember when he ran a cartoon in 2006, the point of which was that "midterm elections are boring, don't bother"

[The Backlash Cometh]

14. That should be the sign of an intelligent person.

To be aware that new information can change the entire chess board.

[misanthrope]

43. A rational government is TOLERANT by default...

...and we all know what that means in today's environment.

[Poboy]

9. I think you're right. The daring ignorance and obnoxiousness all around me is

quite the wieght. I look like a typical white male, so they assume it is 'safe' to spout all their bullshit.
I hear what they think all the time. It isn't pretty. Sometimes I cannot hold back and shock them with a counter charge or expose their stupidity. The spineless Dems sure don't make it easy to defend them, but sometimes I just have to point out the loony-tune rhetoric being parroted all around me.

[The Backlash Cometh]

15. Thanks for sharing that.

I, too, was once thought of as "white." I heard it all which is why I have absolutely no tolerance with their views now because I know what they are hiding.

[madmax]

16. Typical white female here and I hear the same

shit. They assume that because I'm white I think like them. When I open my big mouth and let 'em have it they're shocked. What asshats.

[w8liftinglady]

20. I have the same problem.

I'm a blonde,blue-eyed white woman...I can't be a heathen Democrat...it's...it's...Un-American.

[madmax]

21. And with muscles no doubt due to your

user name. ;)

[The Backlash Cometh]

25. I would love to meet the two of you someday.

You both sound like interesting people.

[madmax]

36. That would be fun! I posted last week that we

should try to put together a DU convention. Not much politics but, lot's of fun - a huge family reunion thing. Of course being what we are, politics will be involved in conversations. But, I was thinking more along the lines of just hanging together and meeting in r/l. Doesn't have to be a fancy resort thing. Someplace cheap with water, pool, river, ocean, lake, whatever. Didn't get too many posts. It's just something I think would be quite memorable.

[The Backlash Cometh]

48. In fairness to DU, these meet-ups have been going on for quite a while.

I'm just ready to give it a try.

[madmax]

49. I went to one in Philie about 8 years ago.

It was great. Met LynneSin, Will Pitt, Kool Kitty and a few others whose name escape me at the moment. Hell, it was eight years ago. Somedays I'm happy to remember what I did 8 minutes ago. ;) Life gets hectic.

I was thinking more along the lines of HUGE! :rofl: Without the guest speaker bullshit and any type of structured political discourse.

[pgodbold]

10. I can see the look incredulous shock that would spread over his face. Shit just got real. nt

[femrap]

17. I know what you're talking about...

I have family living in the South...they are so full of righteous Christian hatred and racism. There is no compromising with them. They're vile. Hell, just to get their attention, you have to hit them upside the head with a 2 by 4.

I saw a great bumper sticker yesterday: I'll be Nicer when they are smarter.

So I guess I'll just continue being mean to the Willful Ignorants....because no one can change their minds...not even Jesus, imho.

[chervilant]

22. Well, now,

I've tried nice.

I've tried being diplomatic.

For a wee while, I even tried being quiet.

Now, I use facts and quotes, irrefutable statistics, and links to actual footage of wingnuttery. Sadly, cognitive dissonance and denial are standard responses.

[The Backlash Cometh]

26. I have met some very nice people here, but, there are peaks and valleys.

The valleys always occur when these people begin dating or mingling with the hardcore Florida rednecks. From their mouths I hear them say, "I'll knock their teeth down their throat!" and they mean it. It's an anger that is just itching for a fight.

[no limit]

18. What Jon was saying is you don't have to shout and be a dick to make a point.

hyperbolic rethoric is destroying our media. It's not that we should bow down, or play nice. It's that we shouldn't stoop to their level. And when we do we only make things worse.

It's not really about you, it's more about the media. The media has become 2 sides trying to out yell another. And that's a huge problem for our country.

[DevonRex]

27. Exactly right. Thanks. nt

[The Backlash Cometh]

28. I see.

So, basically, we have to make our side more entertaining to keep the tone down and get the message across?

How many writers do you think it will take to make a viable show?

[no limit]

30. Maddow seems capable of doing the job. I know republicans that actually like her show.

Do you think Maddow does a shitty job at getting the message across? I think she does a great job.

[The Backlash Cometh]

32. I haven't watched her show, but I hear good things.

[TheKentuckian]

29. The problems with our media start with an obligation to profit rather than the truth

It can be as serene as still water on a windless day and still be as uninformative and corporate friendly.

Another big one is what Jon played to is false equivalence. The media is expected to play referee and by making every viewpoint (that they allow to be discussed) as equal. By de facto defense of wrong by sticking with"both sides do it" at every opportunity. By sweeping objective reality under the rug and letting total bullshit to stand on equal footing with fact.
They have failed completely to be a honest broker that is a major point of their existence.

The media has also taken to hamfisted protection of interests from business and government.

They do not invest in reporting, research (other than polling), or crucial infrastructure for either like field offices.

The critical problems are in a complete failure to get facts out. Fuck the yelling, it serves mostly to break the monotony of fluff about entertainers and the opinions of washed up hacks and softball questions for politicians.

We got ten channels of no data and 3.5 networks of maybe worse and the tone is what bothers folks????

Tone is THE fundamental underlaying flaw in our media in your view?

I'm about getting the truth out, then about getting the truth to as many as possible. Tone is a luxury when we have so few voices with limited platforms.

The lack of desperation for honest facts, tough and relentless questions, and calling it like it is, is pretty damned telling to me.

We've got problems in the media that are way fucking deep and when I hear liberal worrying about tone and tenor then I am about forced to believe it is a direct assault on the message or damn near ethereal nonsense from those with a high degree of comfort with the status quo.

How the hell does one worry about being tuned out before they have a message getting out at all or that can be heard over the background?

What you want only existed in an environment that saw news as a public service rather than a profit center so instead the cry is for unilateral disarmament forgetting that we just are barely hobbling out of such an era and no its not worse but better because our ideas at least are somewhat discussed.

[no limit]

33. I only read a few lines till I got to the point where you said Jon wants media to treat both sides

equally.

That is actually the exact oppisite of the point Jon Stewart was making. I would read the rest of your posts but unfortunately I am a bit tired of reading your posts today, shorten them up a bit please.

[TheKentuckian]

41. Read or don't read. I don't get paid or report to an editor.

Post should be about as long or short as the person writing them makes them when it comes from them.

[no limit]

50. I've been reading your long posts all morning and posting replies, you ignore those replies

then you come in here and give misinformation in the very first line of your post and you want me to keep reading the essay you put up that from the get go is filled with inaccurate information (that I pointed out to you and you again ignored)?

Thanks, but I'll pass. Have a nice day.

[Poboy]

34. Good post Kentuckian. -nt

[felix_numinous]

23. Solidarity is built on camaraderie and respect

-Showing up in great numbers, inoculating ourselves against being further mindfracked by the right, was just a FIRST STEP. This rally was not a destination for us to get stuck in and over analyze, but a means to galvanize us towards working together.

If we got together in a left version of a teabag rally, full of our anger and frustration, we would have given the RW exactly what they wanted, and endless fodder. By showing up and making fun of everything, we effectively removed ourselves from the hate spiral. The RW media pundits don't know what happened, they cannot figure this out, so they have no target.

Think of the genius of Colbert, he gets the message out, we have a really good laugh (which is good medicine-it removes stress so we can think clearly!) and we all show up in great numbers and end up feeling empowered.

This does not mean we should not express our anger, but the left needs unity first before we move forward.

It really is no more complicated than this, IMHO. :)

[The Backlash Cometh]

31. I have no question that his rally was a huge success.

And a combine force is the only way to beat the right. I'm just trying to figure out where we're going to find that common ground amongst ourselves, especially since we adore Stewart, but think he needs to understand how the right affect every aspect of our lives. Frankly, he should understand what some of us are going through since we are literally minorities in our communities.

[felix_numinous]

51. Yes, Jon Stewart is in NY

and I wonder if he has spent much time in the deep South. I lived in FL, LA, and AZ and know what you are talking about.

It is so disturbing to see how divided this country has become, there are neighborhoods with so much tension, I have seen it too. I am holding my breath today, good luck to you in your state :)

[felix_numinous]

52. dup

[LostInAnomie]

37. That was not his message.

He was targeting the media's use of hyperbole and sensationalism for the purpose of ratings and how that poisons our national dialogue. Not the individual voters that have strong opinions.

[The Backlash Cometh]

39. We need to find a way to make this distinction,

because, for the longest time, we were looking for someone in the media to represent our views. So we embraced the media gladiators, like Olberman, and for all their effort, they get pulled in the same net with all the right-wing nuts. I can see how that would grate more than a few nerves considering what an effort it took to get this far.

Crossfire, however, was a problem. People kept talking over each other, and nobody was listening to the other side.

[misanthrope]

42. Amen! He doesn't realize the hatred that's out here...

...and just how polarized things are. Jimmy Carter told Bill Maher the other night that he's never seen the country this divided and thinks it's worse than it's been since the run-up to the Civil War.

The difference there? Carter is from the South. He sees it first hand.

[The Backlash Cometh]

46. Yes, it's scary.

You need to go about this using the Petrie dish method. You need to expose their hypocrisies, and reveal their double-speak. Slowly, you will dissolve their support, pulling the more rational people away from them. In the end, you'll end up with crud that will be exposed for the hate group they really are, but at least, once exposed, you can prevent them from creating the chaos that is dismantling this country.

It's the chaos that we should be trying to put down. Division is just one strategy to create chaos.

[nadinbrzezinski]

44. It is about a system

I know this is hard to understand, but it is about a system. That was his criticism, the media system...

[The Backlash Cometh]

47. I think it's good we're talking about it.

Let's make his point clear so that we don't spend any more time tripping over each other.

[Doctor_J]

45. Yeah, I don't think us quieting down is going to help

at all