"Oh no, not this time, it will hurt our chances in the election."

[originalpckelly]

Then when 2012 rolls around, it will be, "Oh no, we couldn't possibly risk it, the presidency is at stake."
And so on and so forth.

It will always be something. There is never an easy for moment for true change, there is always an election on the way.

How long should I wait for my human/civil rights? If it were you, how long would you like to wait?

[leftstreet]

1. We will get our rights when we demand them n/t

[Skittles]

2. Democratic president, House and Senate?

you shouldn't be waiting at all

[TheWatcher]

8. That's got to be it! Once we get all those, things will surely go our way!

Oh, wait.....

You would think people would catch on to the Fake, Truman Show, Political Theater by now, but they just keep buying more fiercely into it with each passing cycle.

"Maybe this time....."

Maybe when the time comes that we stand up and actually DEMAND Change, DEMAND Representation, and DEMAND our Civil Rights, OR ELSE, that is when real change will happen.

But as you and I are always told, my dear Skittles, that's just SO 1776 and 1787.

It's just SO QUAINT.

We have to LOOK FORWARD, MOVE ON, and my PERSONAL FAVORITE.....

BE PATIENT

Someday My Pony Will Come!

[originalpckelly]

10. From Dr. MLK:

"We know through painful experience that freedom is never voluntarily given by the oppressor; it must be demanded by the oppressed. Frankly, I have yet to engage in a direct-action campaign that was "well timed" in the view of those who have not suffered unduly from the disease of segregation. For years now I have heard the word "Wait!" It rings in the ear of every Negro with piercing familiarity. This "Wait" has almost always meant "Never." We must come to see, with one of our distinguished jurists, that "justice too long delayed is justice denied."

We have made great progress in this nation. It may no longer be appropriate to use such profound words as oppressor or oppressed, BUT what we see today in the policy of DADT or the rejection of full marriage for my people is the tail end of true oppression. It was not illegal to be black, it was illegal to be gay. I just want you to think about that. MY PEOPLE have been discriminated against AND killed in this nation and others for centuries. Long before a single slave was taken from Africa, death was the sentence for being gay. And it still goes on. WE WILL WAIT NO LONGER!

[tavalon]

13. We have miles and miles left to go

Oppressed and oppressor are just as relevant today.

[laughingliberal]

22. "justice too long delayed is justice denied."

How is it we still fail to remember this after all these years?

Left me with tears rolling down my face. Thank you for posting.

[beforeyoureyes]

50. Such powerful and moving words. The world is a dim place without King

[Angry Dragon]

3. Yesterday would be good!!

[emulatorloo]

4. Senate Republicans stopped the repeal of DADT in the Senate

If the Republicans weren't so anti-gay this nightmare would be over.

[sabrina 1]

32. Then they should be rolled over as they deserve. Did anyone

seriously think they would do anything different? Why, when we have the power, do we even bother with them?

The president has the authority as CIC to issue an Executive Order to halt the dismissal of Gay troops from the military 'in a time of national emergency' IF, he believes it harms the military to deprive it of their services. Since he already stated that he DOES believe dismissals of Gays harm the military, he is obligated to stop it.

There is plenty of material available on what he has the power to do. WE DON'T NEED Republicans. But after the election, thanks to all these failures on the part of this party, things that should have been easy, we may not have that power anymore.

This has nothing to do with Republicans, it has to do with this President as he is in the unique position of having the power to stop it with overwhelming public support.

[MadMaddie]

5. I don't know... how long did Black Americans wait?

How many died marching? Getting beaten by police and attacked by dogs?
Since the Emancipation Proclaimation?

How long did it take to integrate the military? 1940 - 1965
http://www.history.army.mil/books/integration/iaf-fm.htm


I ask of you and others before President Obama came to office was there any effort at all to repeal DADT? (Mind you more Americans today are against DADT) Were there any significant court cases working through the courts in our favor? Gay Marriage? At the National level....?

It's been two years and many are turning their back on their party and their leader.

If many choose not to vote well then Republicans will attempt to strip Gays of what rights we have. If many are willing to risk that go for it.

We think of Pink Stars and that it couldn't happen here.....well some of the things we have seen over the last 2 years doesn't build my confidence that it couldn't happen here. Be careful of what you wish for....

[HipChick]

9. +1000...

[FreeState]

18. before President Obama came to office was there any effort at all to repeal DADT?

Yes there was - if your unaware of this you have not been paying attention at all. Never mind the fact that DADT is part of the path from an all out ban on GLBTs. Its been going on since the 70's.

[BlueCheese]

30. Right.

Bill Clinton was trying to allow gays to serve openly in 1993. DADT was the compromise result of that. Noxious as DADT is now, it actually represented progress at the time.

[MadMaddie]

51. I am specifically referring to DADT

I know the history of Gays in America. Yes, the attack on Gays ratched up in the 1970's with Pat Robertson, Anita. I am talking about a coordinated effort through the courts and forcing the Pentagon to do it's job. Clinton sold us out trying to appease the right wing with DADT.

You cannot deny that there is momentum. Is it a fast as we want it? No.

My question to you is if McCain/Palin would the cases be moving through the courts? Would DADT be even discussed? Would our soldiars who are being vocal now being taking the chance of losing their career if they didn't think there was a chance to repeal DADT.

[Panaconda]

19. Black America is still waiting

If you have any doubts go to the nearest state penitentiary.

[MadMaddie]

52. I agree that there are still major issues especially with the

for profit jails. I agree that the system is broken.

compared to the year I was born, 1965 we do have more opportunities, we can go to college, we have many successful professionals. It is not perfect. We know that and that's why we continue to fight the fight.

[EFerrari]

27. Two years? Gays have been fighting discrimination in the military at least since 1942

when the first psych testing was done to screen them out. More recently, there was this soldier:



Technical Sergeant Leonard Matlovich (1943 – June 22, 1988)<1> was a Vietnam War veteran, race relations instructor, and recipient of the Purple Heart and the Bronze Star.

Matlovich was the first gay service member to fight the ban on gays in the military, and perhaps the best-known gay man in America in the 1970s next to Harvey Milk. His fight to stay in the United States Air Force after coming out of the closet became a cause célèbre around which the gay community rallied. His case resulted in articles in newspapers and magazines throughout the country, numerous television interviews, and a television movie on NBC. His photograph appeared on the cover of the September 8, 1975, issue of Time magazine, making him a symbol for thousands of gay and lesbian servicemembers and gay people generally.<2> In October 2006, Matlovich was honored by LGBT History Month as a leader in the history of the LGBT community.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leonard_Matlovich

This fight is much, much older than two years.

[QC]

43. Thank you for pointing that out.

A lot of people around here seem to think that gay people did not exist until Ellen Degeneres invented us in 1996.

[MadMaddie]

53. I agree the fight is older than two years old

but the difference today is that the majority of Americans think the law should be repealed. That is a major shift and that shift will impact the outcome.

[pnwmom]

6. Specifically, what do you think should be done right now?

If Obama eliminated DADT "by a stroke of the pen," then the next President could reinstate it "by a stroke of the pen" and millions of out service members would have their jobs put in jeopardy.

[originalpckelly]

15. It isn't about Obama, it's about you.

I can guarantee you I will NEVER meet Obama or enter into dialogue with him, I can't do a damn thing about him. On the other hand, while I may never meet you in person, I can change your mind. You are the problem. You make an excuse for inaction, just like so many other people. I don't know if you're one of my people or if you're not, but one way or the other, you've made at least one excuse for inaction. Thinking change is impossible is the surest way to make it impossible.

[pnwmom]

42. Look at all the change that has occurred in the last 30 years.

When my father came out, you could still get arrested for being gay. The "enlightened" view was that it was a mental disorder, not criminal behavior.

So the question isn't whether change is possible, but on what timetable. And just based on the last 5 years, I think gay marriage and the repeal of DADT will be a done deal within the next few years -- maybe sooner. Unless we're stupid enough to elect large Rethug majorities who DO want to turn back the clock.

[originalpckelly]

45. Hell, even just seven years ago, it was illegal in some areas to have gay sex...

in the privacy of one's bedroom. There has been immense progress, but one little thing is missing: we cannot go around in public displaying affection for one another. I mean we can in some situations, but how often do you see it outside of the villages around the country. NOT often.

I remember I used to live next to a gay couple when I was a kid, and I remember never seeing them kiss or hug or do anything. You wouldn't even know they were a couple if you didn't ask them, as my nosy mother did. They could have passed for roommates. We shouldn't have to go through that.

[pnwmom]

47. PDA's in my area (Seattle and environs) aren't particularly unusual.

Not that either gay or straight couples do a lot of it. I think that probably depends on where you live -- and where you go. There was quite a bit of PDA-ing going on among some women near me at the Natalie Merchant concert!

[originalpckelly]

48. It does indeed.

In Denver, I never see it outside of Capitol Hill, our local gay village. Then you go to Pridefest and see how many people are holding hands, it's just so out of whack, something is NOT right. The math doesn't add up. There are too many gay people for it not be seen at least once a day on a casual stroll.

[nashville_brook]

7. at some point they've got to admit that they don't deserve the votes of those they won't support

[tavalon]

11. We don't get our rights on election day

We get them when we hit the streets, willing to die for them.

I voted straight Dem this time purely to spite the corporations and their goddamn secret money now given so freely because of Citizen's United (an Orwellian name if ever there were one).

[nadinbrzezinski]

12. Realistically this country changes

At the pace measured in generations. It took 100 years for African Americans to truly move from slaves to equals, and a civil war.

I wish it could be immediate, by the way... Why I fight. It is the civil rights issue of our day.

[originalpckelly]

17. The internet is the most powerful method change in history.

Shaming these people into change is one way.

[nadinbrzezinski]

20. So was the printing press...

Professional hazards of a working historian.. Cynical I know.

[originalpckelly]

25. I agree, the internet is not at all different from a printing press.

[nadinbrzezinski]

31. The printing press was very revolutionary

But this is a good place to organize, beyond that it will take blood, sweat and tears. In other words direct action.

[stray cat]

14. Your choice is to work for it, stop working for it or ?

[Panaconda]

21. You've omitted the most important part

which is the method and tactics used to, as you say, "work for it."

[stray cat]

16. What specific right and what is your solution for getting it now?

And does it interfere with the rights of anyone else

[originalpckelly]

24. It would be nice to walk hand in hand with a another guy down the street...

Without having it be a real statistically significant possibility that we would be called some anti-gay epithet, beaten up, or even killed. I would like to hold hands in public more than the two days a year in the downtown area where Gay Pride is held. Just something as simple as that.

I'd like to be able to dream about getting married, and have it be a real possibility.

I'd like for my people to join the military and have their partners receive full benefits.

I'd like for someone to be openly gay, and universally protected from employment discrimination.

There are so many things I can't even name them. Give me time.

[originalpckelly]

29. For the hand holding thing, I think GLBT people should hold walk-ins...

We should basically walk down the street hand in hand in protest. I think it should be non-violent, if someone hits us, we should just continue, or seek medical help. Get people to stand-by to give first aid. We need to push this, we need to be in your face about it. I think this most basic of things is the starting point.

How often do you see same-sex partners walking hand in hand in places? Not very, I only saw one instance of it during the DNC and I see it during Pride, but that's it.

[originalpckelly]

37. We should do it like every weekend...

while video-taping anyone who insults us, hits us, or anything else. Then you put the video on YouTube to let the normal people of our nation see what we go through.

[nadinbrzezinski]

28. You've got to be shitting me

How would marriage interfere with my rights as a heterosexual couple?

Or how would rights of visitation and inheritance for gays affect you?

Change will take much longer than I feel comfortable with, but brutally honest thanks for illustrating this.

To the OP this is exactly what I mean.

[originalpckelly]

33. This isn't about our party, this is about all of America.

If my people are to openly love one another, and not fear any more than a straight couple might, change must happen in both parties. It must happen in all of America. Hatred of GLBTIs must be marginalized to such a point, that not even a republican will run on an anti-GLBTI platform.

People seem to be missing that.

[nadinbrzezinski]

34. I didn't say it was about party.

Kindly re-read what I wrote.

[originalpckelly]

35. Sorry wrong place...

:P

No harm meant. I'm tired dammit, neighbors woke my ass at 1 AM, and I couldn't go back to sleep.

[nadinbrzezinski]

36. No problem

[originalpckelly]

39. I'm just so fucking pissed right now.

I'm at my limits with this shit. I don't want people to abstain from voting, that's like shooting yourself in the face because you don't like the way your nose looks. BUT, we have to do something about this. I think we should start small with making public displays of affection between GLBTI couples safer, more common, and less shocking to ordinary straight people. Maybe if people see us being close in public they will become desensitized and the ick factor that's there will go away.

I can see people participating in this, seems like a good venue for them to get laid. :rofl:

[nadinbrzezinski]

40. The civil rights movement is instructive

Blacks sitting at the counter is very similar to gay couples holding hands in the park.

Direct action is the next stage.

[originalpckelly]

41. I have to think more about strategy.

I think we might very be able to pull this shit off. Would you need a permit? Hmmmm... I would need help. I can imagine using Facebook to do it. The whole getting laid thing is joke, but it's true I'd imagine.

People wouldn't have to be couples, they'd just show up and either they'd pick a partner or we could assign them one.

[JNelson6563]

44. See, that's where things get unrealistic

Let's talk about how racist the GOP is. While they're somewhat subtle about it they've certainly got their dog whistles. Discrimination goes on all the time, long after "equal rights" was the law for AAs. I am all for complete equal rights for all people without exception and I expect my party to deliver it but I know there is no way to legislate away bigotry, hatred, intolerance and the like.

Julie

[originalpckelly]

46. Ideally, I'm looking for them to run a token candidate...

then I know my job will be done.

[laughingliberal]

23. K & R nt

[DURHAM D]

26. Just as the Repubs use abortion -

the Dems use our human rights.

They truly believe we will continue to give them our votes until the end of time and therefore they continue to hold the carrot out there - just out of reach. More importantly, they need our money. Our donations have been way out of proportion (high) to our actual numbers for the past 35 years. I assume that well is now drying up to some degree as well. I know mine has - as have my friend's.

[BzaDem]

38. Supporting Obama in 2012 is the best way to ensure justices are appointed that understand

equal protection under the law applies to marriage as well.

The President really has no power to enact marriage equality from a legislative perspective. Their only power on this issue is to appoint justices to the Supreme Court who take equal protection seriously, and that is a very significant power. Supporting someone other than Obama would set back the battle through the courts by at least a generation.

If you think the President's appointees won't have any trouble recognizing equal protection applies to all, then I want some of what you are smoking.

[beforeyoureyes]

49. The reason Rahm and Gibbs feel they can taunt progressives (the BEST of us)

with impunity is precisely the 'where they gonna go?' attitude....

Those who stand up to them and demand representation are mocked.

Meanwhile, bipartisanship is their code word for sell out.

I felt sick to my stomach today when I read the plan for the next two years. Cutting the deficit, right? Code words for slashing Social Security and programs to help the neediest among us.

I am watching this spectacle in sadness.