I guess Americans just don't give a damn about the wars anymore

[Philosoraptor]

Two wars that is. Two wars lasting longer than any other wars we've been in. Nobody talks about them anymore, nobody gives a shit that we've killed half a million innocent people in two countries that would very much like us to leave, not even the president is all that concerned about ending what used to be the bush/cheney wars. Sad.

Every day I get more fed up with Obama's pointless rhetoric about Afghanistan and Iraq, it's all bla bla bla and people keep dying, and soldiers keep offing themselves after the horrors of serving there, yet, on they drag, the 'never ending, not exactly sure why we're over there' wars.

I totally hated bush and cheney, but I am thoroughly disgusted and disappointed with the man I voted for to end these obscenities deceptively referred to as wars. I can't hide my disappointment, I have to be honest with myself, I've heard all the explanations and excuses as to why we are still there, why this bullshit is still going on, and I don't believe a fucking word of it.

And now I suppose I'm a traitor or a cranky malcontent or a republican because I'm deeply disappointed with the Democratic party who I feel fooled me, faked me out, and forgot me.

I hate what we've become, a nation of dumbass sheep.

[ixion]

1. Most Americans don't want to trouble their 'beautiful mind' with nasty issues like endless war

they'd rather focus on the latest American Idol saga and Lindsey Lohan. :puke:

[Philosoraptor]

2. No one I know ever mentions the wars, except a soldier I know over there

[ixion]

3. yeah, beyond the quasi-patriotic ('freedom isn't free', etc) allusions, I don't hear anyone talking

about it, despite the fact that we're spending billions and committing war crimes. :(

[TBF]

4. War is cool now that the Dems are in office.

It is disgusting.

[ixion]

22. Yes it is.

And we've found out who has ethics and who doesn't here on DU. I've been amazed at the way the tone of the discussion has changed since Obama was elected, and I don't mean for the better.

[TorchTheWitch]

44. I know what you mean

Although I haven't been amazed. In all the years I've been here DU has always been a Team D vs. Team R sport and not much else.

[SammyWinstonJack]

47. Funny how that works out, eh?

:puke:

[90-percent]

5. Support our troops

People don't even bother putting these stickers on their cars anymore.

-90%

[KarenS]

6. K & R and a big "AMEN" n/t

[ejpoeta]

7. this is what gets me. how much time do the wars get on the news?

they spend more on lindsay lohan and mel gibson. it is sickening because men and women are suffering and dying over there and as far as i'm concerned it should be all over the news. we should have to suffer those images every day. i imagine people would be demanding hte troops come home by now if that were the case.

[theHandpuppet]

10. Back in the day journalists were allowed to cover wars...

The images we saw on TV every night during the Vietnam War are still seared on my memory. Every magazine exposed the real horrors of war to soldiers and civilians alike. I'm convinced it was the coverage of the war that helped to bring an end to it -- which is why TPTB have clamped down on journalists and what they are allowed to see and report. Those truly in power don't want an end to war.

[ejpoeta]

12. i agree. it is very lucrative. and as soon as i hear afghanistan had

some valuable natural resource buried in their land i thought.... we are never leaving afghanistan. and people go along with it. they think it's just fine. as long as it's not them that has to go fight in these wars or their kids. we can spend any amount of money to fight wars and kill people. they call themselves christians, sacred life and all that.... but killing innocent poeple who didn't do a damn thing to us.... that's just fine? I was watching the rise and fall of rome on History International yesterday.... since the history channel doesn't seem to show any actual history anymore... rome wasn't destroyed from outside.... it was destroyed from within.

[Ginto]

66. Juxtapose that with WWII where the media was severely regulated.

I've often thought we may not have dropped that horrible bomb if the media was allowed to do what it is meant to do.

[JonLP24]

46. Not only that

The media never talks about the TCNs. Ever.

[Freetradesucks]

8. As soon as a Dem gets in office,

You don't hear a fucking WORD about it any more! It's so hypocritical I can't stand it, and it does make me ashamed of my party.

[KG]

9. meh. they're not even wars anymore. just brutal, repressive occupation propping up deeply corrupt

puppet regimes that are destrying the american economy. nothing to lose any sleep over. :eyes:

[WinkyDink]

19. Au contraire; the "wars" support our only viable manufacturing industries.

[yellowwood]

11. So frustrating

Yes, even here on DU, I see little interest.
Let someone say that her iguana needs a facelift, and hundreds of people will jump to commiserate, but our young men continue to die, and nobody pays attention.

Meanwhile, if people don't care about anything else, they should care about the money that we are spending. For what?
Cost of War
http://costofwar.com/

I remain loyal to the Democratic Party. If we had John McCain for President, we'd have bombed Iran by now.

[Cirque du So-What]

13. Horseshit & hogwash

A simple search (oh, sorry, didn't mean to draw attention to the fact that you don't have the capability of performing a simple search) reveals 102 active threads on the subject of Wikileaks. If you don't think that falls into the category of discussing the war, then there's nothing I can do to change your mind - seeing how I'm just a 'dumbass sheep' & all.

[stray cat]

14. Dumbass sheep=anyone who disagrees with you?

Assuming you really do understand the repercussions of any and all actions

[Philosoraptor]

25. basically yes

[mkultra]

29. which is essentially just you calling for your own herd.

[Scuba]

15. We need the draft. This is why Nixon ended it. n/t

[stray cat]

16. We do need the draft -shared sacrifice versus people sitting it out in comfort

Or posting on web sites

[TBF]

21. If they enact the draft I am moving my children to another country.

I will not take part in the insidious imperialism in which wars are fought only to protect resources abroad (ie oil).

[earth mom]

64. The draft is for all the warmongers and fundies who want to kill every muslim on the planet.

By all means you should leave the country and take your kids with you if there is a draft.

No one would blame you for that and every peace loving person should do the same.

[mkultra]

30. dont think for a second that will reduce Americas tendency

to go to war

[proteus_lives]

40. +10

It's the only way they'll end. Been my opinion for years.

[KharmaTrain]

17. The Dirty Business Of War

Firstly...the GOTB and Pentagon have had a long love affair. They're the ones who make sure billions get funneled to the MIC and always frame Democrats as being "weak" on Defense that then has people in that party falling all over each other to show they're just as tough. This is the kabuki game this administration has gotten itself into. While it's trying to disengage, it does so with tremendous pushback from the MIC that exerts as much influence in our government as the banksters and other corporate barons. The ugly truth is these wars make money for those who control our politicians and thus the price of empire.

That said, these wars have fallen off the radar as they're not sexy. When you had bombers over Baghdad with "Shock and Awe", the corporate media fell all over itself with its own awe...brought to you by the MIC that made it possible. Media "consolidation" have all but eliminated foreign bureaus and thus there's little coverage unless its picked up from an outside source. Unlike Vietnam where there was a report every evening people saw while trying to eat dinner, reports from Iraq or Afghanistan rarely show any action, if they're shown at all. Once in a great while you see some images of the destruction of war, but even then its distant and always "justified".

Ugly truth is with the economy so screwed up, the military is one refuge for many. It's why we see recuritment numbers met and re-enlistments (even if it means going back to the meatgrinders) remaining high. It beats trying to pound the pavement in a depressed economy. It also keeps thousands in the various war related industries and the mercenaries (contractors) going as well. These jobs are spread in almost every district and the politicians won't go near any cuts...especially right now.

I'm sorry you felt duped by the promises...I didn't quite hear them that way. I heard President Obama talk about disengaging in Iraq but putting a stronger push into Afghanistan. The hope was a diplomatic effort would get underway where none existed to create the ultimate "exit" strategy that didn't exist. Ugly truth of war is its easy to start one, ending it is a different story. This administration needs a diplomatic out...a way to withdraw without being framed as "weak" on defense. To end engagement yet not rattle the congresscritters (including Democrats) who rely on the MIC gravy train for votes and campaign cash.

There's no simple answer...sadly.

[WinkyDink]

18. Reasons for the "wars": Theft of resources; Regional hegemony; $upport for M-I C; Imposition of

"Security (AKA, Police) State; and, IMO, Control of drug-trade source (the Taliban had eradicated the poppy-fields).

[Golden Raisin]

20. But, but, but.......

We're bringing American-style Democracy to these countries and preventing terror strikes by evil-doers in the ever-increasingly Fascist-esque "homeland". They should bring back the draft and should show 24/7 on the "news" the most brutal, bloody woundings & casualties of our soldiers and the innocent Iraqi & Afghan civilian/bystanders. They should also show the horrendous effects of war on and disgraceful treatment of our brave veterans after they return home shattered in body and mind. But first you'd have to drag people away from Dancing With the Stars, The Trials & Tribulations of Lindsay Lohan and the continuing Adventures of the Kardashian Girls.

[flyarm]

23. I could not agree with you more...but I am going a step further,.

everyone I know who supported these wars of lies..I keep emailing them stories that are coming out of the Wikileaks ..unsolicited..I just keep emailing the gruesome stories..I want them to know what they supported..I want to rub their faces in it..because there will never be accountability for those who supported these wars without them having done one damn bit of research or even paying attention to truth...

And when I send the articles to these people..I put notes on the bottom..that the blood is on the hands who supported these wars of lies...and Children were murdered for the wars of lies..etc..I put commentary on all of the articles..so far none of the people I am sending to have blocked my emails..and I don't intend to stop..

I want those who supported the lies and the wars of lies held accountable..because they were too lazy to know the truth..or they put their hands over their eyes their ears and their mouths and they went along with the lies..why wouldn't they? there is no accountability in doing so..

I want them held equally accountable!

[femrap]

24. Our nation is in

these wars so the wealthy can make more money selling arms to both sides. War is a racket. And the poor cannon fodder believes the wealthy's lies about patriotism.

And of course the wealthy have no family members on the ground in these wars.

Did you ever read that report from Iron Mountain? google it...it's a pdf and well worth the read. People don't know if it's a joke or real....nevertheless, it explains our reasons for war vs. peace.

I wish there were still the Draft...at least the wealthy would have to do some fancy dancing to keep their kids out of battle....like papa Bush had to do.

[LiberalAndProud]

26. What wars?

I rarely turn to the news any more, but it is shocking what passes for "need to know". Tyra Banks is being sued and something "breaking" came out about the Kardashians(sp).

We are at war? Can't tell it from here.

[Philosoraptor]

28. The hidden wars that are just too boring to bother with

[Mnemosyne]

27. I still care about the illegal Occupation of two countries by the US. n/t

[MissDeeds]

31. I thought with a Democrat in the White House the wars would end

I thought Democrats were better than this. Guess not.

K&R

[LWolf]

32. Some of us do.

We aren't the people whose ideas and opinions matter, apparently. :(

[madokie]

33. Those of us who were participants in war are the only ones who seem to care

I've got scars both physically and mentally, the physical ones I'd learned to deal with but the mental ones I guess I could honestly say those I'll never be able to deal with. Its been 40 years this month since I came home a very different person than I was a few years prior.

My hero's are the ones who fought to stop the war back here in our streets. Without them we'd never have left when we did.
I was on the first flight bringing us home after nixon declared we were drawing down the troops. After having spent 15 months and a few days in country.

[CrispyQ]

34. Mr. Fish never disappoints:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=103x566262

Worth the click.

[Fire1]

35. Oh, we care. We're just distracted with little things like food,

shelter and JOBS!!!

[NNN0LHI]

36. Military is the only one hiring these days

Didn't used to be that way. But it is now. Big percentage of our industrial jobs have went overseas. Steel, auto, chemical and other companies used to come hire our kids right out of high school. I was one of them. Only one that does that now is the military.

Military is our jobs program.

We fucked up.

Don

[indepat]

37. This being my 7th decade active in politics, the failure to get the US out and to prosecute known

war criminals are by far my greatest political disappointments. :cry:

[krabigirl]

38. I agree. I hate what we have become. Why does no one care anymore?

Burnout? I refuse to be a sheep. I am extremely disappointed in this president and his support for these unending wars. Why is war ok now that we have a Democratic president?

[readmoreoften]

39. Cognitive dissonance. Obama supports the wars and they support Obama. When a Republican is in office

they'll be outraged again.

[Bluebear]

41. Every word true. nt

[NNN0LHI]

49. Every word was bullshit

Most Americans including Democrats were all for invading Afghanistan. Check the polls from back then and you will see.

There were very few of us even on this site who knew it was a bad idea and were against it. I was on this site in 2001 so I can remember this period real well.

Don

[Bluebear]

54. Mm.

[SammyWinstonJack]

51. +1000 nt

[MissDeeds]

53. Exactly

Strange how values can change like that...

[Solly Mack]

42. ...

[Philosoraptor]

43. .......

[JonLP24]

45. I agree

that Americans don't (seem) to care about the wars. The majority of them anyways.

[w8liftinglady]

48. which is why I remind my neighbors...weekly.they wave their flags...

um...and want their taxes cut.None of their kids are over there.

[subsuelo]

50. "I hate what we've become, a nation of dumbass sheep."

tempted to use that for a sig line...

[Catherina]

52. Many still do and wiill not be voting for Democrats this time around

Gays are being set up as the scapegoats because it's easier to babble about us wanting ponies but the antiwar faction and all the activists and more left people who know they were betrayed by this Administration are going to make up an even bigger non-voting bloc.

Many people still give a huge damn and won't be supporting this.

[scheming daemons]

56. How is voting Republicans into power going to help end the wars?

...

[Catherina]

58. How simplistically you see the world and choices n/t

[scheming daemons]

61. Like it or not, U.S. elections are a binary choice

This isn't Europe.

99.9% of all elections next tuesday will be won by a Democrat or by a Republican.

[scheming daemons]

55. I care about the wars... but I care more about feeding my family

When one loses one's job, that becomes priority 1, 2, 3, and 4.


Wars take a back seat when I can't pay my bills.

[Catherina]

59. Right, To hell with the other guy. Me, me, ME! Let them be blown to bits right? n/t

[cherokeeprogressive]

57. I had a customer tell me a couple of weeks ago that he was going to Iraq for the third time.

I told him he was lucky there was no more "combat" going on in Iraq and after the two of us finished laughing he pointed me to an Army Times article whereupon GI's were VERY angry that their mission in Iraq wasn't considered "combat", because EVERY time they ventured out of the "Green Zone" they were fired upon at least once.

Now that they're "President Obama's Wars", getting out of them ASAP isn't the highest priority.

[TheKentuckian]

60. Some care but many seem to be more concerned about how the President will look

Than the blood of our fellow citizens, the bankrupting of the nation, living our principles, and the untold loss of innocent life across the seas.

Then there's always the argument that the TeaPubliKlans would have us in even more wars. They may be so inclined but we don't have the capacity without a draft. They aren't thinking and fail to see how completely stretched our forces are and ignore how many deployments we are forced to send our people on to maintain what we have. No consideration that we've been doing stop loss for years.

If you don't demand these foolish occupations end then you literally do hate America and her people, we simply cannot sustain this crap with out gutting our own country.

There are no parties enumerated in our constitution, there is a limit to that loyalty. You put party before country and you are pretty much a traitor. If these occupations were wrong two years ago they are wrong or worse today.

[derby378]

62. We tried to end them, we failed, we're demoralized

And the corporatist Democrats have chased out the new blood and want to return the party to their center-right corporate stand.

[earth mom]

63. I am so digusted with DU and the DUers who excuse the GENOCIDE of those wars just because Obama

is the one pushing those wars now.

Nothing has changed.

Hope and change my ass! :grr:

So glad you posted the truth Philosoraptor!

[walldude]

65. I'm with you...

And to me it looks like the Dems are throwing the election. I mean really, close races with people like Angle? O'Donnell? Buck? Miller? Freaking lunatics the lot of them, and the Dems strategy is what? To play nice? To blame the electorate?

If the Dems lose control it will be because they ran a shitty race against the easiest most pathetic opponents ever to be thrown up against them. Yet I have to sit here and listen to crap like that "Action LIberal" shit, that seeks to blame all the Democrats problems on everyone but themselves.

I posted earlier about how I was ready to not only throw out the baby with the bath water, but I'm ready to chuck the tub, the bathroom, the house, the neighborhood, the state and the fucking country.