It's time to talk honestly about collapse–no matter how others may respond

[marmar]

from YES! Magazine:



"In the Face of This Truth"
It's time to talk honestly about collapse–no matter how others may respond.

by Robert Jensen


We live in the midst of multiple crises­—economic and political, cultural and ecological—posing a significant threat to human existence at the level we have become accustomed to. There’s no way to be awake to the depth of these crises without emotional reactions, no way to be aware of the pain caused by these systemic failures without some dread and distress.

Those emotions come from recognizing that we humans with our big brains have disrupted the balance of the living world in disastrous ways that may be causing irreversible ecological destruction, and that drastically different ways of living are not only necessary but inevitable, with no guarantee of a smooth transition.

This talk, in polite company, leads to being labeled hysterical, Chicken Little, apocalyptic. No matter that you are calm, aren’t predicting the sky falling, and have made no reference to rapture. Pointing out that we live in unsustainable systems, that unsustainable systems can’t be sustained, and that no person or institution with power in the dominant culture is talking about this—well, that’s obviously crazy.

But to many of us, these insights simply seem honest. To be fully alive today is to live with anguish, not for one’s own condition in the world but for the condition of the world, for a world that is in collapse. What to do when such honesty is unwelcome? ..........(more)

The complete piece is at: http://www.yesmagazine.org/issues/a-resilient-community/in-the-face-of-this-truth

[laughingliberal]

1. K & R nt

[xchrom]

2. Recommend

[girl gone mad]

3. k & r ..

back to the greatest.. Egyptian rivers not withstanding.

[marmar]

4. LOL.....

nt

[dixiegrrrrl]

5. Happy to rec this.

I read the article awhile back, and what he says here is what I am encountering:

"This is the second year in a row that our apple trees do not have apples on them. But most people get their food in grocery stores where the apples still appear, and food still arrives, in season and out, from all over the world. This will soon end, and people won’t understand why. They don’t see the trouble in the land as I and my friends do. I grieve daily as I look on this altered world. My grandchildren are young adults who think their lives will continue as they have been. Who will tell them? They can’t hear me. They, and many others, will have to see the changes for themselves, as I have. I can’t imagine that anything else will convince them.

My grief for the world, and for them, is compounded by this feeling of helplessness because there is no way we can have the collective action you speak of when the ‘collective’ is still in denial."

Ayup.

Our garden and our land and the climate here is changing, very noticeable over the last 5 years.

Sadly, out here in the country, where I view most people as self sufficient, a "young" woman in her
30's told me she had no idea of how to cut up a whole chicken, so she spends more to buy them in pieces.

[jwirr]

6. Well said. That next generation is truly in denial. My grandchildren

understand why we are doing this they just do not see the danger approaching. Fortunately for my family the younger ones are paying attention to our own attempts at survival. They are not doing it but watching - hopefully when they do see it they will be able to remember. I have been trying to get them all to read Kunstler but they do not want to read. But the books are here - maybe someday.

[dixiegrrrrl]

9. My G'ma was a contankerous old broad, not very likeable.

Today I bless the circumstances that forced me to live with her when I was young.
She did not intend to teach her survival skills, but I learned them all the same.

don't give up on your kids.
I thought mine were not taking it all in when I had my farm, they were teenagers and pretty absorbed with other things.

Now they are in their 40's and both are thanking me, one is gardening, both are very aware politically. It sank in after all.And I am lucky that Mr. d can build anything, make anything work, and can figure out how to rig what is needed when the power goes out.

[PavePusher]

17. OMG, yer a survivalist!?!? n/t

[texastoast]

66. My mom is looking

and sees me recalling all of what she taught me as a Great Depression survivor. I'm sure she has (FINALLY) a sense of self-satisfaction that I listened (at least to a lot of it) and am putting my parents' wisdom in practice and passing on to my own.

Much of what is in the Foxfire book my mom and dad talked about after they had lived it. I'm so thankful that I was raised around people who lived close to the Earth.

[IDemo]

11. Would they be more likely to pay attention to a DVD?

What a Way to Go: Life at the End of Empire comes highly recommended; both to explain the gravity of the collection of crises we face and to offer the insights of several great thinkers on how things may wind up (it's not necessarily 100% doomthink).

Trailer here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k8X8_wUoiq0&feature=related

[Karenina]

104. Marking. Thanx!

[dkf]

7. Yet understanding the situation does not solve it, especially in a world where we have to deal with

Republicans.

My brother talks about this all the time and it is frankly unbearable. Live for now and try to figure out how to insulate the next generation. Prepare them by investing in alternative energy. Where they will have access to food is another story.

[dkf]

8. Oops..

[RaleighNCDUer]

47. That's the one that most caught me.

The symptoms of the problem are being hidden by the design of the problem.

[SteveM]

102. Good point.

[SoCalDem]

96. The lack of free-ranging bees has to be a part of the apple problem

I commented to my husband a while back how we NEVER see lizards anymore.. We used to have a LOT of them...and our backyard power lines used to have birds all lined up on them every evening..now? maybe 2 or 3..

[SteveM]

101. Is the "collective in denial," or no longer a collective?

With the demise of the "Big-3" networks, the shrinking of the dailies, even the end to the "Top 40," the main instruments of true mass media have become almost irrelevant. Say what one will about the imperfections of the old model, nothing has replaced it. So, how does one even define a "collective" or "community" anymore and where does it exist? The best out-in-the-streets attempt at providing a mass movement today is the Tea Party.

On a side note, NO ONE wants anything to do with the "Left:" not Obama, not the Democrats, not MSM. All three fear to the bones the far right (why, after all, are so many discussions among progressives centered on how much they are bullied?), and do not wish to offend them in any way. I think a study by UCLA(?) on self-esteem among public school children found that the students with the highest esteem, confidence and popularity were -- the bullies. They were gettin' everything they wanted.

[undergroundpanther]

115. That denial

it makes me crazy inside. I got kicked out of a support group ,I asked them why? They said it was for being too honest(I shit you not),not playing"the game"( I don't know what the game is)..and being too forward about how I feel and think(so I should take my thoughts and smooth down the sharp edges and make my mind be mush,.In a nutshell I think they asked me to slip into denial and if I couldn't do that,play a game ..and if I can't play it because it makes no sense,shut up about the despair,rage, helplessness,urgency I feel and never talk about anything that torments me deeply about this mess the world is in,and about corruption and abusers of power..I guess I will not go back,becuz I know I'm a shitty liar,awful playa,and I am not about to stop speaking my own mind to soothe any tweekers,quivering authoritarian/chickenshit egos.My mind(s) belong to me(us) only.That is the only place left in this world where I am free.

[undergroundpanther]

116. That Denial

it makes me crazy inside. I got kicked out of a support group ,I asked them why? They said it was for being too honest(I shit you not),not playing"the game"( I don't know what the game is)..and being too forward about how I feel and think(so I should take my thoughts and smooth down the sharp edges and make my mind be mush,.In a nutshell I think they asked me to slip into denial and if I couldn't do that,play a game ..and if I can't play it because it makes no sense,shut up about the despair,rage, helplessness,urgency I feel and never talk about anything that torments me deeply about this mess the world is in,and about corruption and abusers of power..I guess I will not go back,becuz I know I'm a shitty liar,awful playa,and I am not about to stop speaking my own mind to soothe any tweekers,quivering authoritarian/chickenshit egos.My mind(s) belong to me(us) only.That is the only place left in this world where I am free.

[XemaSab]

10. K&R

n/t

[Bonobo]

12. This is why we need to demand more from our leaders, not just the lesser of two evils.

We needed someone to go in and change the game, not someone who would play it with a slightly different slant.

We must begin to demand and demands start with stopping compromising.

[lunatica]

13. Where are the people who aren't the lesser of two evils?

Wouldn't we all vote for them if they were there? Sometimes the only thing we have is compromise.

[Bonobo]

14. Not everyone would.

The ones I am talking about are defeated early by our side who chooses to front-load the "compromise" process.

It is about expecting/demanding too little.

[lunatica]

15. I think it's about being FORCED to expect/demand too little

I want much more than we're getting. I'm a Progressive Social Democrat so the choices I have in Presidential elections are a disappointment, but it is what it is and since I'm not willing to let anyone make me give up my vote I will have to vote for the lesser of two evils. The greater of those two evils is not anything I can accept or give a pass to. Right now I have no choice.

But right now California has some excellent people campaigning for the first time in a very long time. The last good governor we had is running this time after a series of disastrous governors and I'm glad to vote for him. Barbara Boxer and Barbara Lee are Progressives as is Gavin Newsom. It's the first time in a very long time that I'm glad to vote. But I voted even when I had to hold my nose.

[femrap]

106. I loved having Jerry Brown as the Gov.....

I hope he wins this one. Sometimes I think CA should secede from the union. Sometimes I want to secede from the union!

I am amazed that this topic is being so highly rec'd. That's encouraging to me. I have felt like Cassandra for so long...but I believe Mother Nature has had it...and when she gets pissed off, watch out. I don't blame her in the least.

[TBF]

19. Compromise is NOT the only thing - in France there are 2.5

million in the streets this weekend. We have other alternatives.

[CoffeeCat]

26. At this point, our political system is useless...

It has been so corrupted, that it is impossible for anyone who objects
to what is happening--to win any meaningful election. It takes so much
money to win an election, and the power brokers and king makers at the
upper echelons of both parties can make or break anyone.

No one, who wants to break up the corporatism and corruption--could make
it anywhere in politics, at this point.

The system is rotten from head to toe.

[yurbud]

84. they are eliminated in the early rounds of primaries, often by media ridicule.

[skepticscott]

20. Well, demands start in the voting booth

The reason we have the current crop of leaders that we do is that the ones who get elected are (with very few exceptions) those who tell people what they want to hear, rather than those who tell people what they need to be told. Candidates who tell the voters that everything will be hunky-dory if we just keep on doing what we're doing and being hard-working Americans will always win over those who call for shared sacrifice now to forestall problems in the future.

[Skittles]

24. style over substance

it is nauseating how people fall for this shite

[L0oniX]

52. Jimmy Carter told us the truth and we kicked him out.

[femrap]

107. 'They' kicked him out.

I still set the thermostat at 68 degrees or less and put on a sweater. No one wants to her The Truth...I've been 'crazy' more times than I want for trying to open people's eyes.

Then I just took the attitude of 'Let them learn the hard way.'

[Tesha]

110. People will *ALWAYS* choose a pretty lie over a hard, ugly truth.

And wasn't Reagan the epitome of a pretty liar telling pretty lies?

Tesha

[pokercat999]

117. Actually the ray-gun didn't lie all that much he was just talking

to people making over $200K per year and we thought he was talking to his audience of "regular" people. So you see it's your fault for not understanding his plain talk.:sarcasm:

[chervilant]

63. Wow...

Poor wee skeptic...

Electronic voting machines, corporate contributions, partisan PACs, and the M$M Propaganda Machine now produce our 'crop of leaders' and individual voters have very little to do with election outcomes. But, like most of the rest of us, you are simply snarfing the red herrings promulgated by the Corporate Megalomaniacs, who recognize the merit in sustaining the delusion that we 'vote' for our preferred candidates.

[skepticscott]

108. No, we get to vote for a very limited

selection of candidates which have been, to no small extent, pre-selected by forces that the voters can't control. Unconventionality, including excessive frankness and truth-telling, generally gets excised from the process before the general population gets to weigh in. I'm not quite so cynical yet to think that ballots just go to the shredder and vote totals are invented in back rooms somewhere, though. If that were true, people like Kucinich would never get re-elected.

[chervilant]

121. What if

the 'powers that be' do their 'market research' to determine the level of support each candidate has (pre-election) and the likelihood the hoi polloi will question anomalies in election outcomes (for specific races)?

I guess I am completely jaded by the Corporatocracy...

[quaker bill]

38. Nice concept

but in the real and relative world, all things can be viewed as the choice of the "lesser of two evils". The question is how much less evil. In my experience, there are no saints, and the few who come close would not consider themselves "leaders".

Not compromising and having no elected representatives does not change things. My friends and I did alot of "not compromising" in the 1980s. The Reagan administration sent agents to check up on us, but pretty well motored on with its agenda undisturbed.

[Enthusiast]

39. Like that will happen.

:sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm:

[FirstLight]

16. wow..good stuff

sustainability and self sufficiency is now the new bomb shelter of our generation.
just because it didn;t happen to them doesn;t mean we should throw the concept out
it's never a bad thing to be aware and prepared for change. and things are changing faster than we know. the feedback loop for the environment is really on fast forward...

so ya, i'm all for this conversation...and action as well.

did you see this? i was just introduced to this community project today... covers alot of the same concepts:
http://transitionsc.org/about

[Mojorabbit]

35. A fledgling transition

movement has started where I live. I am so glad but we need so much more.

[OneGrassRoot]

43. Here is the (or maybe "a") national website...

http://www.transitionus.org/about-us

The Transition Network is growing, which is awesome.

And Yes! Magazine is AWESOME as well.

:hi:

[amerikat]

18. The average Joe doesn't even want to consider collapse.

I scares me too. But i think it is a natural consequence of the global shenanigans
we have accepted as a way of life in the 80's 90's 00's and this next decade.

I have no doubt that local is better.

Our new community garden rocks. I think we are on the right path.

[Winston Wolf]

21. Thank You...

...kicked and recommended.

[laurel46]

22. Thanks marmar, for introducing me to this site, "yes".

I look forward to your posts and enjoy your great comments. This is a great magazine you have shown me and it shows how people are getting together in food growing co-ops as well. My neighborhood is starting up sharing back yard bounties and possibly other things.

Collapse is a depressing reality, thank goodness we have each other in our family, friends and neighbors.

And dixiegrrrl, I too have gained experience from my grandparents on farm living (canning, growing, quilting sheep's wool quilts, etc...) Well needed skills for today. Have you thought of teaching an adult ed class on farm life? You have valuable skills.

[marmar]

53. You're welcome......and Welcome to DU !!!!

:hi: :party:

[MadMaddie]

23. So on this topic I just read a book called "One Second After"

I would recommend that everyone read it.

The Premise of the book is that a Electromagnetic Pulse (EMP) attack scenario occurs in today's environment and what happens to Americans. It is a work of fiction but it really gives you some ideas that we are in trouble as a nation if something like this happend.

The lesson I took from it is that we as individuals have to prepare ourselves for potential crisis.

http://www.amazon.com/One-Second-After-William-Forstchen/product-reviews/0765317583

We are very spoiled as Americans and rely heavily on technology and other conveniences to live.

Facinating read.

MadMaddie

[gristy]

27. Holy cow. There are 54 PAGES of reviews for that book

[Mojorabbit]

36. I read that book

It was an eye opener for me esp the challenges feeding large groups of people using local resources.

[marmar]

37. Gotta check that out......Gratzi.

nt

[bikebloke]

49. James Howard Kunstler has a couple.

World Made By Hand and sequel The Witch of Hebron.

They're novels in a post-oil world.

[Subdivisions]

67. Read it. What's really scary about that book is the story of

the main character's daughter, who has juvenile diabetes and needs insulin.

That's all I'll say about that.

[femrap]

25. I have long wanted tp

just :hide: :hide:

I fear for humanity....yet, I feel the system must be destroyed before we can survive.

[earcandle]

28. Finally, someone recognizes in the most general terms that we really need to group think. We need

each other to coordinate our "non-collapse" because
we can in a cincinatti second if we regroup and get our basic
fabric back in order.  People who were in charge of that not
too long ago can probably advise, or even still do the job. 
Lets just get the last best default in the queue and then move
on, with no hesitancy on lessons learned and rehabilitation
for those who gave up a lot to belong to the damaged goods
class.  

hey.. we can do this for our kids with our last big breathes. 
We can do it.  We have to do it. We must show our kids the
way.  We must give back their inheritance and prosecute these
criminals to have our standing in the world again.

Why give it up for this tiny group of creeps?  I would prefer
to give up the concept of wealth or the usefulness of money if
this is where it is leading.  There are alternative ways to do
things.... brainstorming is freeing, empathy is freeing and
enlightening... weave a social fabric of the Golden Years
threads.. use gold silk... invest... be your best....
reinvent.. reimagine... 

[madville]

29. It all reverts back to the basics

Water
Food
Heat
Shelter

I would also include:

Medical supplies (first aid, antibiotics, prescriptions, etc)
Weapons

[MadMaddie]

119. Agreed!

I would add to your list basic skills.

Mechanics
Construction Workers
Farmers (old school not conglomorite)

[dgibby]

30. Google "sustainable living".

Lots of great ideas about living through the coming unpleasantness. Also, Mother Earth News is another excellent source of info, and last time I checked, the old Foxfire books were still available on Amazon.

I'm moving back to Va next month to be closer to family. One of my nieces is a master gardener, so I'm planning to build a greenhouse so we can grow through the winter. The house I'm moving to has a basement, so will be putting in shelves to store canned goods, emergency supplies, etc. I'm also planning to get some laying hens, and join a CSA.

As much as I hope the country doesn't collapse, I don't see how it can be avoided if we continue on our present course.

[madmax]

31. k&r

[ProudDad]

32. I've been posting this for more than 2 years...

nice to see it getting some traction...

Power Down, Relocalize, and while we're waiting - starve the corporate beast...

=======================================

For more information about the Long Emergency and what we can try to do to survive it...

www.transitionus.org
http://steadystate.org/
http://www.postcarbon.org/
http://www.postcarbon.org/blog-post/162645-future-chaos-there-is-no-plan
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Long_Emergency

Films:
For the beginner: End of Suburbia
http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/the-end-of-suburbia/

Then What a Way to Go...
http://www.whatawaytogomovie.com/links-and-resources/documentaries-and-videos/

[Dappleganger]

40. GREAT resources...

thank you for putting those together!

[OneGrassRoot]

44. CASSE is a new one for me...

Thanks! :hi:

[marmar]

50. Thanks for the links.....

.....I own a copy of "End of Suburbia"....It's essential viewing.

[L0oniX]

55. More suggestions ...found and watched on Netflix...

Collapse - energy depletion and the collapse of the economic

A Crude Awakening: The Oil Crash - world's dependency on oil and the impending chaos

The Corporation - American corporation, its global economic supremacy and its psychopathic leanings

The 11th Hour - a planet at risk while also offering some exciting and radical solutions for making life on earth sustainable

Blue Gold: World Water Wars - corrupt governments, corporations and even private investors are scrambling to control it

Food, Inc. - the food industry's detrimental effects on our health and environment

National Geographic: Collapse - a team of scientists set out to learn exactly what took down our seemingly indestructible society

The Future of Food - shadowy relationship between agriculture, big business and government

The Oil Factor - realities of the conflict in Iraq and Afghanistan and sheds light on the United States' true motives

...and more.

[stuntcat]

64. what a way

I've had the Way To Go dvd for years but never watched, I've been afraid it would make me madder. Like how I put off watching Earthlings.. then finally did, and I'm glad, but it horrified me.

Maybe I'll watch What A Way to Go tonight, finally.

[GliderGuider]

71. I recommend it very highly

I got to know the producers personally - they are both great human beings who have done their level best to give a sober but ultimately hopeful picture of the Converging Clusterfuck.

[mcollier]

82. Hey Proud Dad... X Marks the Spot!

As long as the question from the major corporations is: How can this make us a profit? We'll likely continue down the unsustainable path of human existence.

Over and over again the masses of people get suckered into divisive tacktics usually regarding race meant to distract, get talked into continuing standing with the corporate interests inspite of their own, and the false idea of the People are powerless in making change happen...

[catzies]

98. Thank you. New links there for me to read later. n/t

Bookmarked.

[defendandprotect]

33. Agree ... and the environmental questions and Nature can be very emotional .....

I've often spoken of this with young people, but once they are newly married and have

little children -- it's too difficult; impossible.

The art of the lie is that right wing propaganda has so completely lied to the public that

we are now actually moving from the REALITY directly to IT'S TOO LATE!


Forget the poisoning of humans and the the planet --

and just consider a planet that seemed an EDEN in its entirety --

It's almost as though the mission of patriarchy was to destroy beauty wherever it was found!

Most of us haven't even experienced the full beauty of nature -- how many kids these

days never smell really fresh air? Our blue skies are filled with some chemical clouds

which eventually drop to earth. Fall and Spring are over in minutes now.

Rain often means flood -- or hail. Drought cracks the earth so severely that even a return

to normal rain doesn't penetrate the rigid soil.

Smell the air yourself -- more often it smells like Wendy's or MacDonald's -- that is when

iot doesn't smell like exhaustive fumes!

Trees? Only thin ribbons of trees trail our highways now.

It can often move you to tears.

[Amonester]

34. K&R

And Bookmarked

[Enthusiast]

41. K&R

It would help (just a tad) if millions of dollars weren't being spent to push the message that global climate change is a hoax. Our political system has been hijacked making a meaningful change in direction nearly impossible. Our TV is full of idiots making the most ridiculous proclamations. How can we achieve progress?

[Billy Burnett]

42. Cuba is a leading nation in sustainability.

The World Wildlife Federation awarded Cuba for being the only nation to achieve sustainability.

In 1994 when the USSR collapsed, Cuba was cut off from affordable oil and all things that come of it.
The Cubans had to turn to an alternative, organic, local, cooperative infrastructure to survive.
All the while continuing to build survival infrastructures - building schools, hospitals, health clinics, and train more teachers and doctors to the point now that Cuba has more teachers per student and Drs per capita than any other nation.

They have done quite well with it. They are poor (in terms of material wealth). But they have accomplished a modern survival model we all could look to and learn from.

Of course, socialist Cuba is "the enemy" of corporatism (America's brand), therefore we Americans are kept in the dark about Cuba's amazing accomplishments.

[L0oniX]

57. +1

[sam sarrha]

45. this is what caused the Recession,, the Richest 1% holds 42% of Financial wealth, top 19% holds 93%

the bottom 80% holds only 7% of financial wealth.. top 1% holds 6 Times that

http://sociology.ucsc.edu/whorulesamerica/power/wealth.html

http://feedingamerica.org/faces-of-hunger/hunger-101/child-hunger-facts.aspx
"...20% or more of the child population in 16 states and D.C. are living in food insecure households. The states of Arkansas (24.4 percent) and Texas (24.3 percent) have the highest rates of children in households without consistent access to food. (Cook, John, Child Food Insecurity in the United States: 2006-2008. iii..."

the Psychotic Obsessive Compulsive Hording of wealth in this country should be declared a threat to National Security.

all speculation on Strategic commodities, food, fuel, health care, etc should be forbidden.

all windfall profits in the stock market should be taxed just like the under classes winning the lottery.. immediately and no deductions.

the ReThuglicans have been taken over by the Dominionists.. they believe that Wealth is proof of gods favor of a man, therefore it is a SIN to tax a rich man/corporation, like wise Poverty is proof of gods Dis-Favor/punishment of a man, so it is a SIN to help them.

http://doggo.tripod.com/doggchrisdomin.html
"...Leo Strauss was born in 1899 and died in 1973. ... He is most famous for resuscitating Machiavelli and introducing his principles as the guiding philosophy of the neo-conservative movement. ... More than any other man, Strauss breathed upon conservatism, inspiring it to rise from its atrophied condition and its natural dislike of change and to embrace an unbounded new political ideology that rides on the back of a revolutionary steed, hailing even radical change; hence the name Neo-Conservatives.

Significantly, Dominionism is a form of Social Darwinism.<48> It inherently includes the religious belief that wealth-power is a sign of God’s election. That is, out of the masses of people and the multitude of nations, wealth, in and of itself, is thought to indicate God’s approval on men and nations whereas poverty and sickness reflect God’s disapproval.

(It was not until I read this article that I realized that this is a fundamental tenet of Dominionists.

Worldly wealth and power are signs of God's favor -- to attempt to limit or decrease one's wealth and power is to disrespect God.

On the contrary, God's elect on Earth are called upon to increase their wealth and power.

It is not sufficient for a man to be a millionaire, or for a country to have sovereignty within its borders -- a man must strive to increase his wealth as much as possible, and a Dominionist government's behavior toward its neighbors must be "invade their countries, kill their leaders and convert them to Christianity".

Furthermore, any attempt to decrease a person's or a country's wealth and power -- to take from the rich to give to the poor, to reduce military spending and power -- is a direct attack on God.) ..."



http://blog.buzzflash.com/hartmann/10016
"...Thom Hartmann's "Independent Thinker" Book of the Month Review

How is it, some have wondered, that the Republican Party has been taken over by a relatively small band of radical ideologues who don't believe in democracy or honesty or any specific religion, but relentlessly flog the language of "freedom," "honor," and Christianity? How is it that people who run the government into deficit can campaign on fiscal responsibility? Or that people who campaign on a "pro life" position can be responsible for lying us into a war that has killed well over 100,000 human beings, nakedly advocate torture, and openly promote the death penalty in American?..."



http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article5010.htm
"...The effect of Strauss’s teaching is to convince his acolytes that they are the natural ruling elite and the persecuted few. And it does not take much intelligence for them to surmise that they are in a situation of great danger, especially in a world devoted to the modern ideas of equal rights and freedoms. Now more than ever, the wise few must proceed cautiously and with circumspection. So, they come to the conclusion that they have a moral justification to lie in order to avoid persecution. Strauss goes so far as to say that dissembling and deception – in effect, a culture of lies – is the peculiar justice of the wise..."

There are dark days ahead for all americans that live in the bottom 80% wealth zone.. we are just a profitable pool of slaves.. to make the rich richer..

[Desertrose]

78. Interesting and so true......

thx.

[Klukie]

80. Great post!!! Thanks!

[The Uncola]

46. Is anyone else as tired..

.. as I am? I feel battle fatigued and not too optimistic that there will be any solutions in time to do any good. My sophomore biology teacher in high school started me learning about the dangers of the (at that time) looming population problem and how it would multiply exponentially all of the other problems of our planet. I'm now 57. You do the math. In my lifetime, I've seen very little done to stem the inevitable and a whole heck of a lot done to exacerbate it. And I'm tired, weary from trying to make difference, only to have those who claimed to be allies, desert us when it comes down to it. Profit over environment, corporations over people... and so it goes... I wish I could still afford hope.. but since I haven't had a income for 9 months.. I can't afford much of anything..

[chervilant]

70. Well, now,

I am 54 years old. I read Rachel Carson's Silent Spring when I was 12 years old. When I finished her iconic treatise, I made two fundamental decisions: 1) I would not bear children, and 2) I would be an activist for the rest of my life. I am so glad that I achieved both those goals.

During my brief tenure on this planet, I've witnessed:

--the heavy metal pollution of this planet's groundwater

--the nationwide existence of 'Superfund Sites' that are so toxic, massive amounts of our tax dollars have been allocated to 'clean up' these abandoned, hazardous areas (visit Superfund websites and you'll find "Superfund for Kids!")

--an exponential increase in diabetes, heart disease, and other diseases directly linked to the consumption of refined sugars (let's not even BEGIN to discuss hydrogenated oils...)

--the 'War on Drugs' (an ironic ploy that benefits the uber wealthy in two primary ways: more money, more money, more money; and keeping the hoi polloi distracted and addicted)

--a pile of floating garbage--in surface area, the size of the state of Texas--in the Pacific Ocean

--a measurable decline in the food fish we pull out of our oceans and lakes

--the steady decline of the honeybee population worldwide (called "Colony Collapse Disorder" by the scientists who are 'struggling' to identify the causes)

--a growing percentage of adults (as of the 90s, this figure was forty percent) who are functionally illiterate (thus, easily manipulated)

--a now ubiquitous 'message delivery system' (television) that has turned a significant number of humans into distracted, misinformed zombies

--a toxic, dangerous economic system that has concentrated the wealth of this planet into the hands of a miniscule fraction of our planet's global population (writing the representative percentage requires scientific notation, and a double-digit negative exponent).

--destructive, endless 'wars' based on lies and profitability (and, don't even get me started about Depleted Uranium)

--a radical shift to exponential growth (read 'change') that few recognize and even fewer discuss.

Sigh...

I don't have time to list all of the other issues I've been witnessing. This would take weeks, if not months.

I'm watching as more and more of us resort to 'react' mode, letting our inchoate fears and frustrations manifest as road rage, name-calling, sarcasm, and other forms of mental, emotional and physical violence. Do I think we humans are experiencing a critical tipping point in our evolution as a species? You bet. Do I think we can do anything about it? I'm becoming increasingly skeptical.

I have been trying to get my certification to be a teacher, but I'm wondering if I should just cash in all my retirement accounts now, and move in with a friend who owns forty acres in rural Arkansas. I have already collected heirloom seeds for many of the fruits and veggies that I love, and I know how to split wood, use coal oil lamps, field dress any animal, can or pressure-can any consumable you can name, discern edible wildings, and purify creek water. I am within six points of 'Expert' with both pistols and rifles (though I prefer not to handle a shotgun). I could survive this imminent crisis...

But, the question becomes, do I have any interest in struggling to survive through the next two decades in this, my twilight years on the planet?

That's the $64,000 question...

[The Uncola]

75. Indeed it is...

.. the $64,000 question. One I don't know how to answer. Thanks for the thoughtful response, we seem to be kindred souls.

[northernlights]

89. it seems to me that if you move in with your friend now

You'll survive and maybe have some contentment on your friend's 40 acres in Arkansas.

I've been trying to sell my house on 2 1/2 acres to move into a cabin on many acres, tucked away, preferably with or near like-minded peoploe, and continue learning to survive. I'm way behind you (although ok in the gardening and animal husbandry area). Know nothing about fishing, field-dressing or guns, though.

I will be learning clamming in the next year, although as we eff up the sea there might not be much of that in the future...

[chervilant]

92. hmm...

About five years ago, I began seeking like-minded people who might be interested in purchasing land together. I wanted to be in northwest Arkansas for a number of reasons, not the least of which was the ability to 'disappear' down long, almost impassable dirt roads. At the time, clean spring water was still fairly common in the back hills.

My efforts stalled when one of my friends decided she wanted to snare her fifth husband (the general contractor we needed to build basic structures), and that they needed to live near his mother in central Kentucky. I pulled back from my efforts then, a bit concerned about my ability to discern whether I was attracting 'like-minded' people, or folks with serious emotional issues.

I still want to build a like-minded community. However, after multiple periods of unemployment and underemployment, my brains and work ethic are the only things I can bring to the table. Well, I do have all of the canning paraphernalia I'd need to can enough food to last from harvest to harvest. I do have certain essential tools, including an 8-lb splitting maul. I have the first four of the Foxfire series, and a shelf full of resources about living off the land. I can raise and butcher chickens, and process their meat. I can milk a cow, and know a wee bit about animal husbandry. I can hunt and fish. I have some heirloom seeds, and considerable experience with French Intensive gardening. Who knows--I may be perceived by some as a viable member of a community.

We'll see. I haven't yet given up. Life is still a rush, as long as I keep my present-moment focus on the gifts this universe brings me: a squirrel burying a fat, perfect pecan; a flock of herons gliding low overhead; a vividly orange and burnt sienna maple leaf, flashing by on a cool breeze.

We'll see...

[bvar22]

97. My wife & I cashed out and moved to rural Arkansas in 2006.

So far, so good.
The water that most people buy in the stores comes out of the ground behind our cabin.
We produce a good percentage of our own food. (Veggie Garden, Chickens, HoneyBees)
Wild game is plentiful.

We heat primarily with a wood stove, burning mostly Oak and Hickory
which we cut and split ourselves.

We buy almost nothing NEW,
preferring 2nd hand or salvage, and do the work ourselves.

Less is More!

It IS a process.
Next year, we will CONSUME even less.

[chervilant]

122. Wow.

I'm so jelly...

[bvar22]

124. Shhh! We don't want the word to get out, but

Rural Arkansas is one of the best deals in America.
*Inexpensive property
*Low taxes
*Abundant clean water
*Long growing season
*Huge National Forests
*Many areas undeveloped and pristine

The downside,
Poverty & ignorance abound
Poor Public services

If you are looking,
an On Property Spring, or Spring fed well is MOST important.
The geology here is very broken and faulted.
Not every place has a good well.
Without our Spring fed well, we couldn't do what we do.
We can run our well wide open 24/7 even during drought without problems.
The water just gets colder and clearer.
We drink straight from the well,
and in July, that crystal clear, ice cold spring water is magic.

[chervilant]

125. The farm

where I spent my formative years had a year-round spring that came out of the side of the hill upon which the homesteaders of the property had built their farmhouse. By the time my dad bought the property, the oak boards the homesteaders had milled from trees growing on the property were rock hard (Dad broke numerous saw blades and drill bits wiring this house for electricity).

The spring was the primo playground for me and my two sisters. We spent many a happy hour playing in and around this amazing ecosystem, even in winter.

The water still tastes sweet and clean, but the farm now belongs to someone else. I am still sad about the loss of this amazing piece of property.

On edit:

Oh, btw, there was no running water or electricity in the old farmhouse for some years after we moved in. My sisters and I were required to carry water up the hill multiple times a day, until my Dad ran a gravity feed from another spring more than 500 feet behind and somewhat above the old farmhouse. Visitors to the farm were intrigued by our water that ran out of the tap 24/7. We sometimes found baby crawdads and caddis fly larvae in our water, so we learned to check our glass before we drank (and three little girls learned to run those critters down to the 'big spring' in order to insure their survival).

[EmeraldCityGrl]

48. We need to take care of each other. We will never survive what's coming

if we don't. Get involved locally. Most people are feeling the same as you are.
Like many others here we started with a community pea patch. We are building
relationships with others that share our concerns and value the opportunity to
connect with others concerned about economic and social collapse.

Our online communities are invaluable, but you can't offer a meal, an extra room
in your home, the sharing of skills or a real hug over the internet. To many people
feel alone and disconnected when there are so many others with the same instincts
urging them to prepare. Fly your freak flag:)

[bertman]

51. For anyone who doubts that climate change is already in full swing,

there was an article in a May issue of Rolling Stone magazine entitled "Capitalists of Chaos; Who's Cashing In on Global Warming?". The article is by McKenzie Funk. RS links are subscription only. If you can get hold of the entire article it is highly educational and very frightening. Here are a couple of excerpts:

"The Arab-led government in Khartoum, where the two forks of the Nile meet, has reportedly turned over nearly 2 million acres to Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Jordan, Kuwait and the United Arab Emirates, hoping to make the northern region the breadbasket of the Arab world."

"The savviest corporate buyers see global warming as a double boon: In the short term, it’s a push factor, destroying agriculture in regions such as northern China and the American Southwest, which are becoming too dry to support crops, and causing food prices to spike. In the long term, it creates a pull: Higher-latitude countries like Ukraine, Russia, Romania, Kazakhstan and Canada are becoming more productive, not less, as the climate heats up. “You don’t need to be a rocket scientist to suggest that production belts in the Northern Hemisphere are shifting northwards,” says Carl Atkin, the head of agribusiness research at Bidwells, the British real estate behemoth. The firm’s consulting wing is helping financial clients make a major push into Eastern Europe."

“The world needs food. Thomas Malthus talked about the problem of finite land but infinite growth. He’s been wrong to date — we can use technology to push out more food. But what happens when technology isn’t coming fast enough? I think people will panic, especially those who have no land to grow on.”

As always, The Powers That Be see this climate catastrophe as an opportunity for profit-taking.

Thanks for posting this, marmar. Rec.

[earth mom]

127. That is a MUST READ article! I keep hoping Rolling Stone will post it online

so I can post a thread about it here on DU.

What hit me in the gut about that article is that the greedy Wall Street banksters are eager to make food the next big scam.

Remember the run on rice a year or two ago? That was the beginning, perhaps a trial run.

I don't think we've seen nothing yet of what those jerks have in store for us! :scared:

[kestrel91316]

54. The human race is crazy. This is why we are doomed. We can't see the forest for

the trees. We have failed to suffer enough consequences of our actions, yet those consequences ARE building up. And they will come down on us like a ton of bricks.

[Jim_Shorts]

56. It Is Completely FUBAR

Government has been BROKEN for at least 25 years and without a united effort to fix these enormous problems we're f*&#+d. I've read articles where we could put enough solar panels & wind turbines in Arizona to generate electricity for the entire USA. There is a group of scientists putting huge sheets of material over the ice in the arctic to reduce the reflection of the sun to help reduce warming. I still believe there are options, but do any of you guys really believe we could unite to solve them? Not a chance in h e double hockey sticks.
The problem is even if a majority of the population agreed to act, the forces that be would find divisive issues to divide us - like mosques @ ground zero or religious or gay or terrorist bullshit. Republicans use government as just another cash cow and we will not stop them.
I have 2 sons in their early 20's and I have been telling them to think long and hard about having children at least until we have some more answers. ( even though I would love to have grand kids)

[grahamhgreen]

79. The crucial point was bailing out the bankers who

Are funding the destruction of the planet - never should have done it.

It's not too late to tax these guys at the Eisenhower rate of 94% in order to save the country/planet

[L0oniX]

58. K & R ...but where are all the usual DU deniers?

I get slammed when ever I post anything about collapse, peak oil, etc. No matter ...I have my sail boat and my escape plans. I can't stay here because it's a metropolitan area ...too many people and no land for small farms ...plenty of roads and parking lots though.

[Subdivisions]

68. Don't worry about the deniers. We need someone (lots of someones) to

continue denying there are problems. After all, when TSHTF, lots of people will have to die. May as well be the deniers because they will not be prepared either physically or mentally, but it won't stop them from begging for a tin of tuna from those of us who were not so hard-assed about what is coming and dared to prepare for it.

[GliderGuider]

72. I was wondering the same thing.

I get in so much shit over on E/E for posting stuff that's not even this cautionary. It's a good thing, actually. There's a lot to take in and assimilate psychologically, and the sooner we start the better we'll be able to cope with the changes as they arrive.

[Extend a Hand]

113. hey sailor

I'm planning on a sailboat as a retreat as well. We're about to sail down from the Chesapeake to beaufort or charleston next week. Where do you sail?

[L0oniX]

118. Tampabay / St. Petersburg

[L0oniX]

126. Check these pics out.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x9350953

[Gregorian]

59. One child or less. It's the only way out of this mess.

Constant resources, with exponential demand. That isn't even remotely sustainable.

The kindest thing that could happen is a world wide rule of one or no children. Even if everyone wails and cries about it.

But it isn't going to happen. We will slowly destroy what was a beautiful world, as people slowly catch on. Too late to preserve what was glorious.

[stuntcat]

60. wail and cry indeed

People have tried to make me feel guilty for not making darling lil #7 billion.. for not giving a baby the rest of this century. I told them I'd kill myself first.

We are ending what was glorious.

[chervilant]

74. Actually,

We will not destroy this planet. We are destroying ourselves. Gaia will continue in all her glory, if with different lifeforms.

[mike_c]

61. Garrett Hardin was right all along....

http://www.dieoff.org/page95.htm

[zipplewrath]

62. I suspect he is wrong

"But most people get their food in grocery stores where the apples still appear, and food still arrives, in season and out, from all over the world. This will soon end, and people won’t understand why."

People won't particularly notice. Some foods already are cyclical, for no other reason than economic limitations. People might "notice" but not for long. He notices changes in his own guarden, and presumes these changes will all be equal all the time, everywhere. We had a dust bowl in the US for a few years, better part of a decade in some ways, but how much do you think the people in NYC noticed? We've been having major shifts if sea food availability my whole life, but how much do you think the vast majority of people notice? Heck, the quality and variety of food has been decreasing for decades, but who particularly notices, on a political level?

I don't deny that major shifts are coming. I just suspect we might be surprised how much people don't really notice.

[stuntcat]

65. yes, I think..

I think this stuff happens gradually enough that people accept it. Even the disasters, that get everyone's attention.. they will come slowly, spaced out just enough that people with refrigerators & cars & clean sidewalks will still think everything is going just fine.
Over 40,000 people will starve to death today but who has to think about that? Not us.

[GliderGuider]

73. That's my current view too.

We will adjust, and assume that what we're seeing is normal, because it was always "normal" before. Humans have this amazing ability to redefine any situation that persists long enough as "normal", and accept it as such.

We will likely see a slow bumpy path down in most cases rather than a collapse. Some places will actually collapse of course, but in order to preserve our world view we'll chalk it up to their "special shortcomings" rather than treat the regional collapses as the evidence they are.

[stuntcat]

91. regional collapse

I hate to sound like the very example I'm setting, but I think that really is the way humans are! To see effects on people as the result of their shortcoming.
We're so comfortable in our suburbs, so protected. A lot of consumers will be happy for decades.

I just watched that End of Suburbia video someone else posted:
"Films:
For the beginner: End of Suburbia
http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/the-end-of-suburbia / "

Now I'm going to take a walk through my suburb to get to my Target to buy a little umbrella I'll need for my high-carbon, parent-paid trip to Scotland this Thursday! See, this week I feel like the very picture of what makes me ill. I don't go to Thanksgiving and I go light on Christmas, maybe that'll make up for this vacation a little.. maybe I hope :shrug:

[chervilant]

100. hmm...

Most people are not noticing right now. Most people are completely clueless right now.

[SteveM]

103. You may be right...

"I don't deny that major shifts are coming. I just suspect we might be surprised how much people don't really notice."

There has never been an "economic downturn" since my adulthood that has not resulted in major detrimental effects to most of the population; in terms of good-paying jobs, in terms of benefits, in terms of full-time jobs, etc. After this "downturn," we will see the future: It is temporary. And part-time.

"The past is a foreign country, they do things differently there." -- Harold Pinter, The Go-Between

[Crunchy Frog]

120. We'll gradually transition to Soylent Green, and people won't notice.

We're already halfway there. People buy packages of chemicals and think it's food. Just dress it up in the right packaging with the right ad campaign and they'll eat it up.

[truebrit71]

69. Yes but when? Are we going to be like so many frogs slowly boiling to death...

..or will the feedback loop reach a point of critical mass and the whole thing just come crashing down?

I have just finished reading Eaarth and that book really opened my eyes...I think we are well and truly fucked, the only question is how long will it take, and how bad will it be?

Interested in other people's thoughts on timing...

[Desertrose]

76. K&R

[grahamhgreen]

77. I spoke with a Chinese student yesterday - her feelings were just the opposite

She showed me picture of her hometown, Hanzhou (google images), and it is stunningly beautiful.

The new bullet train makes the 300km trip to Shanghai in just 40 minutes.

The whole town is centered around a lake with bike paths, walking streets, and a public bike exchange for all citizens (google that). They even have river surfing.

She said the people are upbeat, relaxed happy and enjoy life, sitting around the many tea houses that surround the lake discussing their future.

She mentioned that the Chinese are stunned by how foolhardy we were to ever enter Afghanistan, as well as how foolish we were to stay.

She also mentioned that most Chinese are not particularly religiosity and instead believe that ones works on the earth determine their worth.

Just anecdotal, but googling Hangzhou really made me understand just how far we have slipped into the third world.

[totodeinhere]

83. That's only one location in China.

In many rural areas in China the people continue to live in abject poverty.

BTW, has the student you talked to ever even heard of jailed Chinese Nobel Peace laureate Liu Xiaobo? And if she has, what is her opinion of his detention for having the temerity to speak out against the regime that is in power?

[grahamhgreen]

94. I will ask her - good question!

She's just one person, but she sees her country on the way up, whereas so many here see us in an inevitable slide down....

[northernlights]

90. I'm curious as to her social station in life?

Is she, perhaps, one of the Chinese elite?

There are many places in the US that are stunningly beautiful, protected...and off limits by virtue of their expense to most Americans.

[grahamhgreen]

95. She's a history major, full scholarship

if not from the elite, at least from the middle class, with the brains to give her a leg up.

[totodeinhere]

81. Just like all other species that were once the dominant species here on earth,

homo sapiens will eventually go into a decline and most likely become extinct. But that's OK because another species will take our place at the top of the heap. That's the way it's always been on planet earth. It's no big deal.

[stuntcat]

112. we'll take thousands of other species with us

and not through natural catastrophes but through the one we create, not accidentally either. It's the dirtiest thing in the universe to me.

[yurbud]

85. it's the inevitable result of a society set up to benefit a very rapacious tiny minority

that wants more and more and more than they can ever possibly consume or their heirs could consume for a hundred generations.

Because the earth is finite, their desire for ever more leads to more and more bizarre behavior to squeeze wealth from places it doesn't exist or where they are destroying the possibility collecting future wealth by killing the cow (us) for steaks instead of keeping it alive for milk.

[WillyT]

86. Most Excellent !!! - K & R !!!

Reminds me of this quote from 'Postcards From The Edge':

"Thanks GOD I got sober now so I can be hyper-conscious for this series of humiliations."

http://ia.media-imdb.com/images/M/MV5BMjEzMDUxNjM2Nl5BMl5BanBnXkFtZTcwNjM2NDEyMQ@@._V1._SY314_CR3,0,214,314_.jpg

:shrug:

:kick:

[Joe Chi Minh]

87. Man's rationality is limited. Oddly enough, the higher the status of the individual in society,

generally-speaking, the more limited his/her rationality. It's because we know what we want to know. Apparently, in philosophy, it's called 'voluntarism'. Genuine worldlings can never have enough worldly possessions. Like the monkeys in India they catch in peanut traps.

All Christ's gospel teachings were based on it.

[AlbertCat]

93. All Christ's gospel teachings were based on it.

EVERYBODY'S teachings were based on it before the Industrial Revolution!

Life in Christ's time was not that much different from life 1000 years later. Sure fashions and philosophies change, but not the basics. Life in the 16th century is essentially the same as life in the 17th and early 18th centuries. But things slowly start to change with the turn of the 18th century and really take off in the 19th.

IOW, a person from 1492 could get along fine were he magical transported to 1792. A person from 2010 waking up in 1776 would be in a heap of trouble!

[Joe Chi Minh]

114. Hilarious thought. Particularly in the West. Tremendous technological progress,

but a savage regression into anomie, indeed, in the US, anarchy. Oddly enough, not from the quarter from which one would customarily expect it, but from the top level of society.

Are they still in control of their disaster capitalism, or will they become victims of it with the rest of us?

[orbitalman]

88. It is like waiting for the OTHER shoe to drop. n/t

[customerserviceguy]

99. The word 'collapse' means the very sudden shift

of one way of doing things, to another way. Frankly, I take this all with a grain of salt, I remember hearing about the 'population bomb' back in the late 1960's, and especially as Earth Day came and went, and while things truly suck for a goodly portion of humanity, they always have.

You might bristle at the word 'apocalyptic', but the one thing that eschatological religious people and the "we're coming to the limits of what we can do" people have in common is the idea that the only thing that "saves" us is some sort of divine intervention or complete about-face in daily living activities.

I feel that human beings have the capacity to adapt to changes gradually, even if the pace of those changes would scare the pants off their ancestors of three generations earlier. We've always done it, and I believe we always will.

[cbdo2007]

105. Well, an impending "collapse" has been shouted around for milleniums, so I guess eventually...

someone has to get it right.

You've got to be pretty narcissistic to actually think it's going to happen in your lifetime and that you're going to be a witness to it, and even more so that you're one of the handful of people who actually called it correctly this time, but I guess your right, someday collapse is going to happen, probably when we all least expect it.

[Capn Sunshine]

109. This guy should lighten up-we'll always have soylent green

and other petroleum derived foodstuffs. Tastes like chicken!

[GliderGuider]

111. This article gets over 200 votes?

I'm totally, utterly impressed. I'be been telling this tale for 5 years, and have gotten little but scoffs from the Polyanna gallery.

It's a strange thing to be happy about...

[GliderGuider]

123. Kick for a very important article

This is a topic that we'll be seeing more and more discussion about over the next 5 years. Get in on the ground floor...

[earth mom]

128. Thanks for kicking this thread or I wouldn't have seen it last night.

Here's another kick! :kick: