Does violence underpin the American way of life?

[mix]

Poll question: Does violence underpin the American way of life?

[napi21]

1. YES! And I never realized just how many really nasty people

there are in this country. I always listen to streaming radio and many of the progressive hosts invite Pubs to call in to their show. I've heard some of the most evil, mean & nasty people in the last week. One guy called Bill Alan Combs yesterday screaming how much he hated him & all those damn liberals & he wanted to see him beheaded! Several called Ed Schultz this past week just yelling the mose vile though not profane language at him & all those damn liberals.

It's gotten much worse lately. I commented to my hubby last night that I can't believe there are so many absolute nasty people in this country. OF course his reply was "Oh I can!"

[mix]

3. Hateful, violent rhetoric has always been common in American politics,

but our way of life, consumerism above all, requires massive military expenditures and near constant war to sustain. And the environmental cost is catastrophic.

The tragedy is the structural constraints most of us are placed in...we can't escape globalization, only mitigate its effects.

Those who voted no should read a little history and do a lot of soul searching to understand the source of our affluence and power.

[Cal33]

52. I think you are correct. The Native Americans are among the few

groups whose estimated population of 20 million 2 centuries ago has dropped to about
4 million today. During these 200 years the population of most of the rest of the
world has multiplied many, many times. Let's face it, we took their land, killed
their people, and put the survivors into reservations. Violence has been our way of
life for many, many generations. Is it any wonder that there is so much of it in our
lives today?

[mix]

57. I could not agree more.

That is why the study of American history is so important. Until the crimes the USA has committed--genocide, ethnocide, and slavery--have been learned about and until spiritual and humane atonement is made, if ever possible, there will always be a scar on our collective and individual psyches and a blight on our conscience.

Most people will forget, I will always be among those who REMEMBER.

[Name removed]

2. Deleted message

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[asdjrocky]

33. Sounds like another pug who watched Red Dawn too many times.

Welcome to DU Got Nugs. :hi: :smoke:

[JDPriestly]

4. Violence underpins a lot of animal life, too.

We humans have to make an effort if we want to have a less violent society. Americans aren't making enough effort.

[mix]

58. Reason, innate rationality though fleeting, is the only thing that might

check our primal impulse to be violent and aggressive at times.

[MisterP]

69. empathy, compassion, not any Reason stripped of feeling, is what stays the hand

and most people insisting on "primal impulses" as the cause of war are themselves warmongers (Robert Ardrey)

[mix]

71. thank you, this was clarifying nt

[JDPriestly]

81. It is, in my opinion, a combination of empathy, compassion and

reason that causes us to "stay the hand." These are qualities we need to foster and develop in ourselves and others. Nonviolent communication is the beginning. We also need to free ourselves of our own greed.

[Name removed]

5. Deleted message

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[mix]

6. Equivocation is not an excuse for your post.

But I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, given my other conclusion.

[L0oniX]

7. Ya don't come back from war and watch Bambi movies.

[Cid_B]

12. I did...

just finished Hercules as well...

Also the US is not a violent country. The average person does not worry about violence being done to them on a daily basis. Some yes but a small percentage.

[mix]

13. History disagrees that the "US is not a violent country."

Let's hear/see your evidence.

[Cid_B]

26. Do you need a survey....

to prove to you that the average American is usually confident that they wont get their ass kicked on a daily basis?

I just got back from a violent country. The US aint it.

[L0oniX]

29. DUH! If China attacked us and was in our country shooting kids...

you would see just how violent we can be. Your example is dishonest at best.

[mix]

30. You've missed the point of this post.

[Cid_B]

31. If your point of posting...

... was to get a circle jerk of agreement then I guess I'm out...

You didn't state anything about reasons or invasions. The question was is it or isn't it. Violence does not "underpin" the American way of life. period...

[mix]

34. What a comforting fantasy.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_qLAIskTQXUc/TEY_wAq8VMI/AAAAAAAAA_o/TghPteuyqFs/s1600/iraq+oil+2.jpg

[Cid_B]

36. You've obviously got your own little axe to grind...

... mucho apologies for the dissension. Oh, wait... You asked the f'ing question....

Which part was fantasy exactly? Do you believe that the average American deals with violence on a daily basis in their every day life?

[mix]

38. Yeah, like I wish my country would live in peace and prosperity

and fulfill the promise of liberty and equality that it was founded on.

I'll grind that axe 24/7/365.

[Cid_B]

48. And that has what to do with violence underpinning America?

Seriously, its like you just did a mad-lib.

If you feel like addressing the points made then let me know. Otherwise, why do you even ask?

[mix]

51. Either you get it or don't.

This continent was stolen. Mass murder and ethnocide were committed. The occupations of the Philippines and Nicaragua slaughtered thousands. Vietnam was a crime against humanity, committed by our military. Hundreds of thousands were killed in Guatemala and El Salvador in the 70s and 80s, through American trained proxies mostly, for wanting a better life, one that conflicted with the profits of American corporations. The USA has supported assassinations and death squads throughout South America. Torture, a long time policy of our military and intelligence services, was made "official" during the Bush-Cheney years. Guantanamo is still open and so is Bagram. The occupations of Iraq and Afghanistan are wars for oil to keep our way of life functioning. We are close allies with Saudi Arabia, one of the most radically conservative and repressive theocracies in the world, because of oil. We also arm them to the teeth to keep any possible reform from happening.

That is the just some of the violence that underpins our way of life.

Denying this is laughable.

[Cal33]

55. Just look at the history of our nation. My post #52 is the 4th from the top

in this thread.

[L0oniX]

28. LOL

[Odin2005]

8. In the broad sense, yes.

Hate, bullying, misogyny, rape, economic exploration, theocratic politics, it is all a form of violence.

[mix]

66. good to see you

:hi:

[Odin2005]

68. Hi!

:hi:

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

9. Since the threat of prison rape/murder is our chief law enforcement tool, yes.

The threat of a year stamping license plates and working out in safe surroundings isn't really so scary.

[mix]

10. A society of incarceration.

1980 the Reagan Revolution begins

[defendandprotect]

11. Voted "yes" but just wanted to elaborate that there are strong forces which

teach "violence" because it benefits the few -

The very concept of a "macho" masculism --

the concept of rape of women -- and assault on homosexuals --

The right wing can only rise on political violence -- and that violence came

out into the open in '63 with the coup on JFk and our "people's" government.

Since then government and business have been so corrupted that they provide

a constant attack on citizens.

Look at your TV -- the images of women -- the return of concepts of torture!

And, as ridiculous as it was, Poppy Bush's ability to end what the GOP called

"the VN syndrome" -- thereby providing us again with new imperialism and new

perpetual wars!!

Especially want to make clear that violence is TAUGHT ... it is not a natural

state --

and, our soldiers, of course, are but one more example of that --

our MIC has to be very industrious to get men to kill ... even the enemy!

[mix]

15. I absolutely agree that modern violence is a learned cultural practice/value

in American society...and we export that violence globally to preserve our way of life.

[defendandprotect]

24. Want to keep the stress on "TAUGHT" .... because we need to acknowlege how

violence is TAUGHT to Americans ever day by MSM --

by politicians -- by our MIC --

and most of all by organized patriarchal religion which underpins patriarchy --

We see that in the Papal Bulls which instructed Columbus as Europeans took over this

continent -- "enslave them, convert them, or kill them" applied to both the Native

American and the African enslaved here.

Patriarchy and capitalism have always used religion and demonizing of others to move

their agenda forward -- TEACHING myths of "inferiority" of other human beings to make

them exploitable.

"Manifest Destiny" and "Man's Dominion Over Nature" are the licenses to the few to

exploit nature, natural resources, animal-life -- and even other human beings.


Capitalism was invented by the Vatican when Feudalism became insufficient to run their

Papal States.



Patriarchy, Organized patriarchal religion, capitalim =

The Unholy Trinity



:)

[proteus_lives]

14. This poll is just another expression of DU's brand of American Exceptionalism.

Inside of America being the best, it's America is just the worst.

Go to the DRC if you want to see a society where violence underpins the way of life.

[mix]

16. bs

It's a protest against what is being done in our name, when there are alternatives.

[spin]

17. The violent crime rate in the United States has been dropping for years ...

The violent crime rate of the United States, 1960 to 2005.

As has the property crime rate.


The property crime rate of the US, 1960 to 2005.

Note: source http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_the_United_States



There is a LOT of anger in the United States today.

The United States of Anger
Judith Parker Harris
Posted: September 3, 2009 05:56 PM

There isn't much that unites us these days except that a lot of us are really angry. We've got liberal vs. conservative, choice vs. life, young vs. old, rich vs. poor, male s. female, My God vs. your God. Why so angry? Maybe it is because everyone's feeling out of control about everything. Try substituting consciousness for control. Listen to what is coming out of your mouth and then decide who's running this show?

***snip***

While we often can't change the situation, we can change a lot about our attitudes, habits and opinions by altering the way we act and react. For instance, when you start going down a negative thinking path of judgment, criticism or blame, try substituting compassion, wisdom and understanding. Pause, until the knee jerk reactions of anger and fear subside. Think for a moment and explain your thoughts based on the reframing of logic and example taken from current events rather than past, often regrettable, history. Before we can learn new things we have to make our current assumptions explicit and find ways to challenge them. The solution is un-learning the mental model we use to explain the world.

We agonize over a health care plan that doesn't yet exist, and fill in the blanks with fear and anger. We watch the news each night to learn of more murders in our local neighborhoods. For What?

***snip***

The miracle of human life is that we can change. We actually develop our neural wiring in direct response to our life's experiences. If you decide it's in your interest to be a better boss, manager, employee, mate, child, friend, or citizen of the world, you can achieve that goal by changing your own neural wiring -- the way you think and feel about every role you play in life.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/judith-parker-harris/the-united-states-of-ange_b_276924.html

[mix]

20. Yet incarceration rates are skyrocketing.

And what about the violence we inflict beyond our borders to keep this country going, that hasn't been dropping, has it?

[defendandprotect]

25. Exactly . . . .

United Nations has called America the "terrorist" nation -- I certainly agree!!

Last I heard on the prison figures, it was 1 in every 34 Americans!!

Imprisonment for the AA community is an unbelievable figure -- which I can't recall

at the moment -- but horrific!!

And, we have only to look at Arizona for another example of the efforts to increase

the prison population!!

We are putting the wrong people in jail !!! :evilgrin:

[spin]

32. Perhaps incarceration is why the crime rate is falling ...

there's a lot of debate on this subject. I personally believe that the crime rate is falling because of better police work. That would lead to a higher incarceration rate.

If it comes down to a choice between putting violent criminals in jail as opposed to giving them a slap on the wrist time and time again until they finally murder someone, I would go with prison time. You may disagree.

But I also believe that in order to make our country a safer and better place we have to improve our educational system so that our students can successfully compete with students from other nations and provide jobs that pay a living wage.

The violence we inflict in military actions against other countries is largely determined by the actions of the people we elect. I personally agreed with the actions we initially took against the Taliban and al-Qaida in Afghanistan after 9-11, but when Bush the Younger decided to attack Iraq rather than hunt Osama bin Laden and his crew down, I felt that we were heading down the wrong path.

The primary excuse that was used to justify the invasion of Iraq was their supposed development of weapons of mass destruction. Had the people we elected insisted on proof rather than allow themselves to be herded like cattle into approving our attack, we would have avoided losing many lives and wasting billions and billions of dollars.

[mix]

35. Your "better police work" is an example of the violence

that underpins American society. And so is incarceration with no chance of reform and rehabilitation.

Cops are "soldiers" now, keeping one class of people safe and sound.

[spin]

65. In some cases and some areas of the country, you might be right ...

I know a lot of cops both retired and current duty and my experience with them has shown me that the majority are honorable people doing a job that few ordinary citizens (including me) would be willing to do for the pay.

Recently we had a local police officer rooming with us for a year in the big old hotel we live in. He and his wife were very active in a lot of community activities such as the Special Olympics. He often bent over backward to help people out rather than to arrest them. He is a dedicated and professional officer and a asset to our small town.

Of course, I have known some police who are over authoritarian and tend to abuse their power. My experience has shown them to be in the minority.

But I live in Florida. If I lived in Chicago or New York City, I might have a far different view.

Of course I believe in attempting to rehabilitate a person who has attempted even a violent crime and I have known success stories. For example, an uncle of my grandchildren held up a convenience store with a firearm. He served a jail sentence and currently is a productive cabinet maker who runs his own business.

But there are limits. All too often when a tragic and stupid shooting takes someones life, we find the criminal has a rap sheet that is several pages long. He had been waving red flags for years and yet every time he broke the law in a more serious manner all he received was a short sentence or probation. You don't have to be a psychic to predict his future.

Let me ask you how you rehabilitate a person like this?

Man charged in Petit murders has extensive rap sheet
September 24, 2010 10:00 a.m. EDT

(CNN) -- Steven Hayes, 47, has been a convicted felon since 1980. The man currently on trial for the murders of Jennifer Hawke-Petit and her two daughters has been in and out of the criminal justice system since he was 17-years-old.

Hayes' 8-page criminal report was obtained by CNN, and shows a long history of burglary, larceny, drug possession, and forgery.

His first arrest was on April 25, 1980. He was charged with third-degree burglary and served 18 months probation for that crime. Since then, he has racked up nearly 60 criminal counts -- over 10 of them for burglary.

Prior to the Petit home invasion and murders, Hayes had been charged, yet again, with third-degree burglary in 2003 and sentenced to five years in prison, but he only served three of those years.
http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/09/24/petit.hayes.criminal.history/index.html

Steven Hayes is accused of killing three members of a Connecticut family in a 2007 home invasion.

An accelerant appears to have been poured on or near two girls as they lay tied up in their beds in their Connecticut home when home invaders set it afire more than three years ago, an investigator told jurors Friday.

***snip***

Michaela Petit, 11, and her sister Hayley, 17, died of smoke inhalation after their family's home was set afire, investigators said. Their mother, 48-year-old Jennifer Hawke-Petit, died of strangulation.

Hayes told police that both girls were tied to their beds, according to a police report.

Referring to a photograph of Michaela Petit's body in her bedroom, Makuc pointed out what he said was evidence that an accelerant had been poured over the girl.
http://articles.cnn.com/2010-09-24/justice/connecticut.murder.trial_1_home-invaders-dna-analysis-home-invasion?_s=PM:CRIME

[TonyMontana]

37. And yet is still higher than every other industrialized nation

[spin]

64. Many of those prisoners are nonviolent drug offenders ...

we need to end our failed war on drugs and legalize some drugs such as marijuana.

[mitchum]

18. H Rap Brown: "Violence is American as cherry pie"

[galileoreloaded]

19. Violence underpinns the human condition. EOM

[mix]

22. And neoliberal-militarized capitalism exacerbates

that aspect of the "human condition."

[proteus_lives]

39. +1

[mix]

40. The easy answer is always the most appealing. nt

[proteus_lives]

41. So is expectionalism.

It's easier then dealing with the world on real terms.

It's much quicker just to say, "Best! Best! Best! or Worst! Worst! Worst!"

[mix]

42. Your "analysis" of this post is fantasy and fabrication.

Where is your evidence of "exceptionalism"?

[proteus_lives]

43. Your comments on your little poll.

And the fact you ignore comments like, "Try living in the DRC if you want to see a society where violence underpins life."

[mix]

44. I am a citizen of the United States, here I can hope to change

the society I live in. Why that equates with "exceptionalism" in your mind is incomprehensible to me.

Next time before spewing, get your facts and evidence in order, svp.

[xchrom]

21. Yes. Nt

[SargeUNN]

23. Yep but then

it has always been a factor in our nation. Today it probably is more visible with the internet and the illusion of secrecy many have so they are more willing to blast their views than in a place where they would instantly be recognized. Funny but they also like to use the cloak of secrecy in their attacks even when such a claim is totally absurb.

[rrneck]

27. No.

It's gluttony. Violence is the result.

[RandomThoughts]

45. You can go through most of your life without violence.

It is a small part of existence in real life. But a huge part of TV.

Why is that?

[mix]

46. And yet it permeates our society, inside and outside our borders.

Peace in certain parts of America is not an accident of history.

I don't own a TV.

[chaska]

47. CAPITALISM = VIOLENCE

[mix]

49. The evidence is all around us. I wonder why so few notice? nt

[seabeyond]

50. the easy answer was yes. listening to people, i am saying a resounding no.

i have never experienced any violence, anywhere in life. nor the three i live with. nor many many others i know. the people that have, have gone out looking for it. thinking of brothers that have a thing for fighting.

maybe it is in pockets of u.s. but i am not in those pockets.

[mix]

53. I wonder why your life is so free of violence, while the lives of those

in places like Baghdad and Kandahar are not?

[seabeyond]

54. i heard different arguments thru out thread. guess depends what you are talking about.

if you are addressing war then this period of time in our history....

if you are talking about living in the u.s., then no.

[mix]

56. The two are intimately and intrinsically connected.

The violence abroad is what underpins, or supports, our way of life here.

[seabeyond]

60. look, you ask if violence underpins our way of life in america. referring to living in america

all over the u.s., 5 decades, nothing... i am not running into violence. personally, i have had none. i have lived all over, alone, out at all hours and feel safe. i am not running into violence around the corner. i have been lucky to not have it in my family as many are that lucky. many not that lucky.

but know.... i do not see vilence underpinning the lifestyle of u.s.

i do see an escalation of anger, hate, disrespect.... civil behavior. i think that may feed off the wars, but i think it feeds more off a lot of things in society that have shifted and change in the last decade or so, which have nothing to do with war

[mix]

62. It surprises me to cross Americans such as yourself

that are utterly clueless about the death and violence that our way of life depends upon in great part.

No wonder the MIC does exactly what it wants globally, with the sons and daughters of the lower-middle and working classes mostly paying the highest price for America's economic elites. Our citizens have tuned out, or worse, they are in denial.

peace

[seabeyond]

63. it would help if the question was clear enough

to know wtf you are talking about.

but your continuing insulting tone on so many of yoru posts may allow some self reflection to give you the answer to your very question

[Name removed]

59. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[GSLevel9]

61. UNFORTUNATELY...YES! nt

[TBF]

67. Yes, as a child I couldn't believe how violent people were

towards each other (especially within families), and it underlies everything in this capitalistic society. I still feel the same now, 40 years later.

[TK421]

70. I don't know, but whenever I look at a cruise liner I usually get violent impulses n/t

[mix]

72. I feel that way about Zeppelins.

[TK421]

73. uuurrrrggggggg ......AHHHHHH!!!!!! NOW YOU'VE DONE IT!! @!@

[mix]

74. any form of transport really nt

[TK421]

75. aRggghhh!!!!! I want to kill EVERYTHING NOW!!!!@!@

I'm SERIES!!11

[mix]

76. Cognac might take the edge off,

or it might not.

[TK421]

79. NOT!!!@!$

:rofl: I'm drinking a Starbucks Frappuccino right now ( this is my third in the last two hours or so ) maybe I should lay off the caffeine?

[mix]

80. I'm still chasing the dragon...nostalgia for that first caffeine rush haunts me to this day. nt

[slackmaster]

77. Sometimes violence is necessary. The country was born in violent revolution.

Have a nice day.

[mix]

78. oh. nt

[grahamhgreen]

82. It comes from the top down - the solution to our problems, we are told,

Is to be more violent, have more wars, have more draconian police methods, more severe punishments in law and at schools.

And from our media, "Machete" anyone?