I don't want you to protest, and I don't want you to riot.

[leeroysphitz]

I don't want you to write to your congressman because I wouldn't know
what to tell you to write. I don't know about the depression and the
the inflation and the Russians and the crime in the street...

All I know is that FIRST - you've got to get mad!
You've gotta say "I'M A HUMAN BEING, GOD DAMNIT! My life has value!"
So... I want you to get up now...
I want ALL of you to get up out of your chairs...

I want you to get up right now and go to the window
- open it - and...

Oh, nevermind, we wouldn't want to lose the BIG GAME, go ahead and keep
voting for your blue dogs, DINOS and fence sitters this november. We don't
actually need any REAL change.

[villager]

1. Or as they say in "Young Frankenstein:"

"A riot is an ugly thing. And... I think it is just about time that we had one!"

[leeroysphitz]

2. Just about.

[Control-Z]

3. So you're saying don't vote

or vote republican?

I, for one, don't want to lose the BIG GAME. If we lose, it'll take a hell of lot longer and require a hell of a lot more rioting, protesting, shouting and letter writing to get what we want.

[leeroysphitz]

4. I am NOT saying to vote republican.

I am saying that if you keep rewarding Dinos, fence sitters and blue dogs with your vote then you will never get to vote for anyone but Dinos, blue dogs and fence sitters.

I'm saying that TEACHING our incumbents that there is a REAL price to pay for putting corporate financier interests over VOTER interests is a FAR more important goal than the outcome of ANY mid-term election.

If we all had the courage to TEACH them (our elected officials) this critical lesson we would not have to settle for the shit legislation we have had to endure. We would actually have a VOICE in the debate and a real seat at the grown up's table.

If wining the election is all that you love then that is all you will receive (maybe). If you actually want to mend this broken nation then you might consider another, broader, option.

[Control-Z]

5. And that broader option would be?

Helping republicans and teabaggers take control of congress? Because no vote is a vote for them.

Why don't you explain how that no voting option is going to work for us.

[leeroysphitz]

6. As I have clearly stated, forcing DEMS to act like DEMS is more important than the outcome

of ANY single election. You know that.

[Control-Z]

9. So a McCain/Palin win

would have been better for our country?

You honestly believe that giving up the gains we've made will strengthen our party? Please. Explain to me how that works.

[leeroysphitz]

12. Yeah. if that is what it takes to keep the useless and gutless from seeking the

democratic nomination in the future then so be it. I know that you know what I am talking about.

[Control-Z]

17. No.

I don't know what you are talking about. And, at this point, I don't think you do either. I would love to have a stronger, more progressive party but losing elections and falling deeper into the abyss is not the way to do it.

This new strain of conservative teabaggery is more dangerous and crazier than even Bush/Cheney. They don't even pretend. It is downright frightening to think about what they will do to our country if they get the chance.

[leeroysphitz]

20. Elections are temporary and the electorate can be fickle but they seem to vote

for candidates that stand behind their convictions right or wrong. Why can't our candidates simply stand up firm for what they believe?

If the pukes take the house in November they do not take control of the government. We still have (I truly hope?) a president that will block their idiocy with the power of the veto. This gives us, not only, grid-lock but a second chance for the dems in the house and the white house to show some back bone and for would-be Dem candidates to learn a lesson about what it means to fuck with the base (or with the voters in general for that matter since most Americans agree with the Dem base on most of the important issues).

[AuntPatsy]

10. after having to deal with eight years of bushes base, I hardly doubt

the end justifies the means....this country and its citizens cannot afford another two, four or even eight years of having any republican in any seat of real power...sorry...though I agree something has to be done to ensure those we vote for do what they promised to do, I know for a fact that doing anything that gives a chance of any republican winning is like shooting your own foot and finding yourself with no ability to ask for or receive the needed care you would sooner or later surely need in order to survive and or walk right again....


I am just as furious as you at what I see as a sure bet that the corporations which include the religion based ones seem to have much more control over our government officials then is good for this countries majority of citizens but then again I have common sense enough to realize that the other side like it or not could care less about answering to the people, try viewing the years of bush again....really review it..and realize that none of them ever answered to anyone nor cared to and got away with it..our side at least gives us the ability to be outraged without fear of being completely ignored and or incarcerated...

Why not take some time to do a bit of investigating...you still have time...units for incarceration are popping up everywhere, ask yourself why and again ask yourself who will be running them...or better yet..research it all and hit on a better plan instead of yelling outside your window which in all reality will probably ensure a visit from local law enforcement for disturbing someone else's peace..

Your not clearly thinking even if you feel you are clearing stating something...

[leeroysphitz]

14. I survived Bush/Cheney. I will outlive any of the halfwits that seek the republican nom.

I don't know if the country can survive another DINO president.

[AuntPatsy]

24. Glad you survived, many did not......but we shall agree to disagree...

[leeroysphitz]

28. In case you hadn't noticed our men and women in uniform are STILL dying.

But I guess their deaths don't count under a dem administration?

[SammyWinstonJack]

41. +1

:thumbsup:

[Joe Fields]

15. I disagree with you. That is exactly what we need.

I'm afraid nothing else will create the tipping point for this country's citizens to finally rise up.

[AuntPatsy]

25. The only thing that will help is that if we all come together, I fear such is

impossible, hate is winning thanks to people like hannity, beck etc...so like the other poster, I will agree to disagree..the enemy cannot be defeated in such a way in my humble opinion...

[Joe Fields]

13. Let me explain it to you. Simply put, it means...

relatively short term pain for long term gain. Is that too hard for you to understand?

I completely agree with Leroy, and have stated this very concept in recent months. Yes, just about everything in this country from A to Z will go from bad to worse, but I believe it is the only way we can correct our course. In due time politics could be reshaped to actually represent the people's, not corporations plundering and savage interests.

I believe it could be accomplished within a four year election cycle. It would involve more pain, more sacrifice and most definitely many large marches on Washington. It may get a little scary, a little bloody, but I firmly believe the outcome would be rewarding, as opposed to this once great country of ours dying a slow death due to the strangulation of our democracy.

[leeroysphitz]

16. You took the words right out of my mouth and then improved upon them greatly.

Thanks Joe...

[cliffordu]

19. If you feel this strongly about it get out there on the barricades and

wake people the fuck up/.

Or don't vote. Who gives a shit?

[leeroysphitz]

21. Exactly. Toss a malotav or sit home watching Judge Judy...

Untill I can convince large enough numbers of the weak, spineless, dis-interested and complacent, such as yourself, out of the gutless trance their TVs have lulled them into, nothing can be accomplished.

Good point there Cliff...

[cliffordu]

23. I was on the barricades in 1971 AFTER my tour in Vietnam.

don't lecture me on walking the talk, little one.

Snivelling about how weak other people are on an internet message board kinda speaks for itself.

Are you with the 10th Chairborne Rangers???

The Third Mountain Dew Division Basement Signal Corps??

:rofl:

[leeroysphitz]

26. No. I was with the 101st Airborne Division and I did MY due diligence in the Iraqi desert..

And quite frankly the job that your generation did on American politics leaves quite a bit to be desired and is why we are in the mess that we are in today.

Thank you very much for your "service".


:P

[cliffordu]

29. I think

you're a lying sack of shit.

I have NEVER heard one vet quote the word 'service' when thanking another vet for his (or hers).

We never would. You?? not so much.

And where are your barricades, again??

[leeroysphitz]

30. You think.

You were a conscript. It wasn't your job to think. If you were capable of independent thought you would have run to Canada.

I was an elite (paratrooper) member of the largest, best equiped, best educated, best trained professional army ever assembled.

While you and your buddies were smoking dope waiting for your year to be up crying about getting back to the "world" and drinking PBR in your "hooch" we were doing the jobs we signed up for, not knowing when we would ever get home again.

So am I supposed to kiss your ass just because you had to go to Asia hen you were a kid?
My buddy Thom.was the fuller brush man in Saigon in 71, should I kiss his ass too?

[cliffordu]

31. Lying about the (elite) paratrooper, too...

Did you get that off of a cereal box??

Jump school was three weeks when I went through in '69. Elite my ass. I passed it with a broken hand.

You're as elite as Medal of Honor (the video game) allows you to be.

:rofl:

[leeroysphitz]

39. It was still three weeks when I went through in '89.

Air Assault school was three weeks as well. Did you break your hand doing wall push ups or falling out of your bunk?

[cliffordu]

42. duplicate

[cliffordu]

43. Drunk fistfight.

They let us go to the EM club after the first week, on Saturday night and Sunday IIRC...... Too many beers ensued with typical results.

I gotta say, doing pull ups with a broken bone in my hand that last week and jumping was an exquisite hell.

[BzaDem]

37. .

[aikoaiko]

7. Vote for the person furthest left with the best chance of winining the seat

That's how I see it.

[leeroysphitz]

8. fair enough.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

11. I hear you clearly...

I vote for the Dem I want in the primary...

I vote for whoever won that primary in the general.

That's what I do.

I wish there were a better way to get the good Democrats to run.

[leeroysphitz]

18. I respect you Peggy and I value your wisdom, I also envy your view

and I used to share your strategy but I think things have become dire and emergent. I think we need to actively seek the defeat, regardless of the short term cost, of those who call themselves democrats but show, by their actions, that they do not truly share our values.

[cliffordu]

22. Short term cost?

The "short term cost" of the two bush terms is going to be a yoke on your grandchildren financially.

Not to mention the loss of an entire generation's worth of political good will worldwide.

I wish I could boil all this down into throwing a tantrum to 'teach them a lesson' but this world will not stand another lesson like the one you espouse.

And I think you know that.

If not, then just stop voting. Then you get the world you deserve.

[leeroysphitz]

27. And re-electing Blanche Lincoln and Joe Lieberman is going to mitigate that how exactly?

Nice try.

[marions ghost]

36. right

:thumbsup:

[Tsiyu]

32. the DINO politicians don't suffer if we don't elect them

they get pensions and healthcare and cushy jobs and speaking engagements.

WE SUFFER.

If we don't keep our majority, we don't stand a chance against anything that's wrong with this country.

I'm not happy at all about the DINO I must help elect, but he is doing what he has to do to win in a conservative state. I'm more liberal than most people I know. But I am also able to see what is at stake and vote for the lesser of two evils.

I urge everyone to do the same. The alternative is suicide.

[Greyhound]

33. Had he lived longer, I wonder what Paddy Chayefsky would have been saying

about this nightmare today?
:kick: & R

[Mimosa]

34. Dems have been morphing into Rethugs... n/t

[LiberalAndProud]

35. Is it worth a new war to you?

I fear that given into Republican hands, we would soon be at war with Iran. You're right, Democrats haven't been adept, historically, at ending wars. And "escalation" is disonant to my instincts, coming from a Democrat.

Yet, if you want to start a brand new war or two, you might want to check in with the Republican party. You know what I'm saying?


Edit: because I don't know where Iram is.

[BzaDem]

38. Have you considered that there might be NO way to achieve what you want?

You talk about "rewarding" dems. The problem is that if you vote them out of office, they will just become lobbyists and make three or four times what they were making before. If you told them you were punishing them, they would likely laugh in your face.

Your failed logic comes from a flawed assumption. You state that if you don't "make them pay," they will keep acting against your will. But have you ever considered that if you do "make them pay," their replacements will act against your will EVEN MORE? In other words, have you considered the possibility that no matter what you do, scream, stomp, cry, vote, yell, etc, you will not get what you want, no matter HOW much you want it? That the question is not WHETHER you get what you want, but how far AWAY what you get is FROM what you want? Whether you like it or not?

[lunatica]

40. I'm glad I don't turn to you for advice

But by all means go ahead and do nothing about the problems. Sucking lemons is so productive.