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Campaign 2004: Were Bush / Cheney / NSA illegal wiretaps spying on Dems?

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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-19-07 10:36 PM
Original message
Campaign 2004: Were Bush / Cheney / NSA illegal wiretaps spying on Dems?
Edited on Sat May-19-07 11:06 PM by L. Coyote
Investigating more on this fresh revelation--Bush illegally spied on Americans when his own AG and Acting AG told him it is illegal--leads to some interesting questions. In particular, were they spying on political figures, candidates, and activists. Most succinctly, "Were they spying on the opposition in the 2004 Presidential election?"

Now this to add to considerations, in the context of the 2006 campaign season, when things
were heating up with regard to legality questions after many years of program operations:

-----------------------
What are Cheney and Addington Hiding About NSA Spying on Americans?
May 18 (EIRNS)— http://www.larouchepub.com/pr/2007/070518cheney_addgtn....

"...the gnawing suspicion of many observers all along, as to what is the real reason that the White House, under Dick Cheney's direction, has continuously stonewalled, and shrouded the NSA surveillance program in such secrecy.

"On Feb. 6, 2006, when Gonzales was testifying before the Senate Judiciary Committee, he was asked by Sen. Charles Schumer (D-N.Y.) about reports that Comey and others had disagreed about the NSA program. Gonzales answered that "there has not been any serious disagreement about the program that the President has confirmed. There have been disagreements about other matters regarding operations which I cannot get into." When pressed by Schumer, Gonzales repeated that "none of the reservations dealt with the program that we're talking about today. They dealt with operational capabilities that we're not talking about today." And a little later, Gonzales stated: "I'm here only testifying about what the President has confirmed. And with respect to what the President has confirmed, I do not believe that these DOJ officials that you're identifying had concerns about this program." "
----------------------

It is most interesting to analyze what Gonzales is NOT saying, of course. I addressed
this form of attorney-speak just the other day with a neocon neologism, the "parse-lie."

-----------
Tue May-15 - http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
9. More blossoms in the White House Parse-Lie Garden

Assistant Attorney General William Moschella claimed: "we do not believe that Messrs. Ashcroft and Comey would be in a position to provide any new information to the committee."

.... this ... simply says, "I'm working around an obvious lie I cannot tell, so I'll parse a string of bull crap together for you that will make you think I answered your question the way I would if I told a direct lie that would sound a lot like what this seems to say." ....

Definition: A parse-lie is a political plant that blooms all year long. It is not a lie, just a florid string of crap that makes one believe something not said. It is a clever construction that makes one believe the lie it replaces. At the same time, it end runs the actual lie by parsing truth to sound like the lie it averts. Parse-lie blossoms have a slight scent of bull crap. Recently, the White House Parse-Lie Garden has been stinking horridly due to the massive amount of blooming. .... Some of the best bloom episodes in recent times were Alberto Gonzales testifying on FISA and the USA firings.
-----------

Events, and a Google search for Gonzo-gate lead to some interesting readings on the origins of the word "gonzo" from the 'before Alberto' era. And another neocon neologism, "gonzolies," blossomed. See: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Gonzolies means "the last man standing after a lying match." In the cited discourse above, with Alberto testifying to the Senate, our new vocabulary is in fullest blossom--here's the neologistics: "What is hiding in the parse-lie patch and what is Gonzolies really not saying?"

Of course, history teaches us lessons, and Watergate in particular might be useful in this context.
Let us consider two stories and compare them to the Watergate break-in.

1.) Republican operatives are given a contract (within the context of a bribe scheme to get the contract) to set up an IT network for Congress. They set it up so they subsequently intercept all the Democratic communications of the Committees investigating them, principally Leahy's Judiciary committee.

2.) Bush illegally, and with advice in hand as to its illegality from his Attorney General and Acting Attorney General, goes ahead nonetheless with an NSA spying program on a multitude of American citizens.

THE COMPARISON:

#1.) The RNC hires a bozo crew of rogue CIA bunglers (who botched a Cuba invasion) and who get caught trying to place bugs in a political office, DNC HQ.

OR

#2.) The President of the USA and corrupt, bribe-paying operatives actually do intercept ALL communications of all the people investigating them and probably also the communications of those running against them before the 2004 and 2006 elections. AND, they carry out part of this scheme in the very Halls of Congress.

I'll call this, "POTUS, the Felons, Waaaa-aay Worse than Watergate, and Who Haven't They Bugged?"

If Watergate teaches us anything, it should be that corrupt Presidents will spy on Democrats. AND, don't believe the "I'm not a crook" crap.
Just guessing, mind you--given the smell coming from the White House parse-lie Garden and Gonzolies' incredible powers of recall--
but something really big is about to bloom, and I suspect that the object of the NSA spying is the same as the Congressional spying. Just guessing.

======================
Here is the Schumer and Comey exchange, excerpt from testimony by former Deputy Attorney General
James B. Comey to the Senate Judiciary Committee, May 15, 2007:
http://www.salon.com/news/primary_sources/2007/05/15/co... /

======================
Linguists are going to have a field day with this era, as they did with Watergate. Check this out:
"I’m Not a Crook" The Public Face and Private Political Reality of Richard M. Nixon
A Discourse and Conversation Analysis of Some Nixon Tapes
http://jqjacobs.net/anthro/discourse.html

I can't wait to see the discourse analyses of the Gonzolies v. Judiciary match.
Iran-Contra still holds the "I do not recall" record, I'm betting, but this inquisition is just starting.
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Liberal Democratic discussion forum
   Replies to this thread
  - Another excellent post. Thanks L. Coyote  panader0   May-19-07 10:59 PM   #1 
  - One thing I'm curious about  OnceUponTimeOnTheNet   May-19-07 11:09 PM   #2 
  - Very good question. Is that why Ashcroft was outed and Gonzolies installed?  L. Coyote   May-19-07 11:23 PM   #3 
     - VIDEO: Monkeyman delivers another KO: Ashcroft, Gonzolies and the corrupt Politicons  L. Coyote   May-20-07 08:34 AM   #18 
  - Of course they were. I'm curious to know if this aim  sfexpat2000   May-19-07 11:27 PM   #4 
  - I agree. How can anyone doubt it?.  BrklynLiberal   May-19-07 11:47 PM   #6 
  - I recommend this one for post of the month  pscot   May-19-07 11:33 PM   #5 
  - Why has this question not been asked by Congress?  jgraz   May-19-07 11:53 PM   #7 
  - Much of the current investigation stems form them asking this question, when  L. Coyote   May-20-07 12:11 PM   #25 
     - Fair enough...I'm in a "show me" state of mind re: congress  jgraz   May-20-07 12:30 PM   #26 
        - Ditto that. Remember too that Pelosi could be serving tea at 1600 and by 16:00  L. Coyote   May-20-07 12:40 PM   #27 
  - K & R  wicket   May-20-07 12:03 AM   #8 
  - Of course they eavesdrop on all their enemies, and all their friends.  bleever   May-20-07 12:49 AM   #9 
  - IMHO they spy on the Dems ALL THE TIME, and are blackmailing  kestrel91316   May-20-07 12:55 AM   #10 
  - Blackmail enough of them  Zywiec   May-20-07 08:54 AM   #20 
  - Maybe they blackmailed McAuliffe into not securing election process in 2002 and 2004?  blm   May-20-07 09:09 AM   #21 
  - Oh hell....they were probably spying on Dems and conducting  Mind_your_head   May-20-07 01:16 AM   #11 
  - Damned straight! What did God give us brains for, except to cry foul at  Peace Patriot   May-20-07 04:25 AM   #14 
     - "And you don't even have to have much of a brain to figure this one out"  L. Coyote   May-20-07 09:23 AM   #22 
  - New Yorker: The Hidden Power = "Bush had secretly authorized the N.S.A. to eavesdrop"  L. Coyote   May-20-07 01:47 AM   #12 
  - Powell tried to bail on the My Lai massacre. What has changed  sfexpat2000   May-20-07 01:49 AM   #13 
  - K&R  bonito   May-20-07 05:07 AM   #15 
  - Feb. 2004. Hacker-Gate, "Republicans stole thousands of Democratic documents.."  L. Coyote   May-20-07 06:42 AM   #16 
  - Excellent post  ooglymoogly   May-20-07 08:03 PM   #31 
  - Uncensored 'Hackergate' Report Accidentally Released; Perps' Names Revealed  L. Coyote   May-22-07 11:22 AM   #53 
     - Statement of Sen. Leahy: "right-wing activists ... spreading lies" & "proceed to closed session"  L. Coyote   May-22-07 11:42 AM   #54 
     - Was the Senate File Pilfering Criminal? = Computer Fraud and Abuse Act (18 U.S.C. 1030)  L. Coyote   May-22-07 12:15 PM   #55 
  - ACLU: The Government Is Spying on Americans  L. Coyote   May-20-07 07:49 AM   #17 
  - I think them spying on Dems has been a worry and suspected  Breeze54   May-20-07 08:48 AM   #19 
  - The Strategery Revealed ...  Everybody   May-20-07 10:28 AM   #23 
  - I would bet money that they spied on Republicans too  Horse with no Name   May-20-07 10:31 AM   #24 
  - I bet you are correct  Tara_NM   May-20-07 10:10 PM   #33 
  - Of course they were spying on Congress and anyone else considered a POLITICAL threat  Vinnie From Indy   May-20-07 01:01 PM   #28 
  - The President's Domestic Surveillance Program, Key News Articles, FRONTLINE VIDEO  L. Coyote   May-20-07 01:39 PM   #29 
  - Does anyone on DU really doubt that the spying was directed  MasonJar   May-20-07 07:43 PM   #30 
  - Bush admits he signed NSA wiretap order, OK'd program more than 30 times  L. Coyote   May-20-07 09:52 PM   #32 
  - Federal Court Strikes Down NSA Warrantless Surveillance Program (8/17/2006)  L. Coyote   May-20-07 10:37 PM   #34 
  - The End of Illegal Domestic Spying? Don't Count on It  L. Coyote   May-20-07 10:41 PM   #35 
  - Another week reveals more lapses in judgment by the Bush team  L. Coyote   May-21-07 07:45 AM   #36 
  - Comey & Phone Companies' Role in the NSA Program = illegal wiretaps  L. Coyote   May-21-07 10:20 AM   #37 
  - James B. Comey has made a remarkable amount of trouble for the White House  L. Coyote   May-21-07 01:23 PM   #42 
  - "Bush was very clear that 'a wiretap requires a court order...' " Caught LYING??  L. Coyote   May-21-07 10:42 AM   #38 
  - President Bush’s Illegal Domestic Spying Program: Overview  L. Coyote   May-21-07 10:55 AM   #39 
  - What other programs are the NSA geeks runnning? = "illegal domestic data-trawling"  L. Coyote   May-21-07 01:08 PM   #40 
  - The "Program" wasn't needed after November 2004  Norquist Nemesis   May-21-07 01:12 PM   #41 
  - Once a good timeline evolves, this juncture should get real scrutiny  L. Coyote   May-21-07 01:25 PM   #43 
  - What Does Comey's Testimony Tell Us about the NSA Program?  L. Coyote   May-21-07 01:49 PM   #44 
  - "... NSA warrantless wiretapping of certain attorneys representing men detained at Guantánamo..."  L. Coyote   May-21-07 02:12 PM   #45 
  - If so, same as watergate and these guys are much worse  marlakay   May-21-07 02:18 PM   #46 
  - What Was "The Program" Before Goldsmith and Comey? = among the theories  L. Coyote   May-21-07 02:23 PM   #47 
  - DEC. 16, 2005 NY TIMES breaks story: Bush Lets NSA Spy in USA Without Warrants  L. Coyote   May-21-07 02:34 PM   #48 
  - Bush administration's FISA falsehoods continue unabated "... just flat-out lies..."  L. Coyote   May-21-07 07:13 PM   #49 
  - I believe they spied on 60 Minutes and got a fax of the Bush AWOL document before show time.  McCamy Taylor   May-21-07 08:03 PM   #50 
  - I've been told this is the reason Rove cannot hand over copies of his emails  Imagevision   May-21-07 08:16 PM   #51 
  - No doubt the degree of politization will be seen in Rove's e-activity. Also  L. Coyote   May-22-07 08:36 AM   #52 
  - NSA Whistleblower Alleges Illegal Spying = NSA AND Defense!!  L. Coyote   May-23-07 07:41 AM   #56 
  - President Bush personally summoned the paper’s publisher  L. Coyote   May-23-07 07:56 AM   #57 
  - The programs ... made public so far... just the tip of the iceberg...  L. Coyote   May-23-07 08:10 AM   #58 
  - Security Voices Against President Bush's Warrantless NSA Domestic Wiretap Program  L. Coyote   May-23-07 09:38 AM   #59 
 
panader0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-19-07 10:59 PM
Response to Original message
1. Another excellent post. Thanks L. Coyote
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OnceUponTimeOnTheNet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-19-07 11:09 PM
Response to Original message
2. One thing I'm curious about
is the chance that once Gonzo took over DOJ, he let the illegal methods proceed once again.

Great job on keeping us informed on this subject, Coyote, Thanks!
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-19-07 11:23 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Very good question. Is that why Ashcroft was outed and Gonzolies installed?
Once again, this inquisition has only just started.
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-20-07 08:34 AM
Response to Reply #3
18. VIDEO: Monkeyman delivers another KO: Ashcroft, Gonzolies and the corrupt Politicons
Monkeyman Sat May-19-07 08:28 PM - http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
"How Much Longer Do We Suffer"
Weekend KO Fix--Above the Law Cheney?
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-19-07 11:27 PM
Response to Original message
4. Of course they were. I'm curious to know if this aim
will ever see the light of day. K&R
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BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-19-07 11:47 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. I agree. How can anyone doubt it?.
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pscot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-19-07 11:33 PM
Response to Original message
5. I recommend this one for post of the month
W is dumb enough to go along with this, but is he capapable of initiating it? Like David Eglesias said, all roads lead to Rove. And Cheney. Speaking of Parse Lies, Bush told one a couple of days ago when he was asked whether he sent Gonzo to Ashcroft's sick room. Hs response was that the program in question was classified and he wasn't going to talk about it, a non sequitor which the press allowed to pass unchallenged. Great post.
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jgraz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-19-07 11:53 PM
Response to Original message
7. Why has this question not been asked by Congress?
If I were a member of the judiciary committee, that would be the first thing out of my mouth: "Did you ever use your wiretap programs to spy on poltical opponents?"
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-20-07 12:11 PM
Response to Reply #7
25. Much of the current investigation stems form them asking this question, when
They caught the hacker-gate interception of all the Senate Committee on the Judiciary electronic communications, and began asking this question way back then.

The problem seems to be that the "oversight era" could not begin until the People transformed the Congress. Another problem is the sheer mass of corruption and abuses of power to deal with while, at the same time, attempting to stop an illegal war and run the country. I do not envy our representatives in today's environment, one of both difficulty and urgency on multitudinous fronts.

Not regarding your question and speaking generally of attitudes I see in the blogosphere, it might be a good idea to give change a chance, to hurl fewer diatribes their way, and to question the motives and sincerity of those who do assault out own team so early in the transistion to this oversight era.

Consider how different things would be without a majority in the Senate before expecting great changes overnight!!

Consider how much has happened and changed in just these short months since the new Congress began to work!!

Rats are jumping off their ship or fighting over the deck chairs. There is a sinking feeling somewhere, and it is not on this side of the aisle.
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jgraz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-20-07 12:30 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. Fair enough...I'm in a "show me" state of mind re: congress
Ever since Pelosi's "off the table" statement, I've been wondering how far the Dems are actually willing to go. If they're just trying to set up a 2008 win -- rather than doing their constitutional duty -- then I'm going to be mighty sick of the whole game.
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-20-07 12:40 PM
Response to Reply #26
27. Ditto that. Remember too that Pelosi could be serving tea at 1600 and by 16:00
Edited on Sun May-20-07 12:41 PM by L. Coyote
after the morning that they decide to throw the scoundrels out. There's that 'ducks in a row' issue before that sunrise, and some of those ducks are still the wrong color. But, watch them changing color here (with more yet to add, and more to follow soon):

Gonzolies (verb. nov.) English, May 17, 2007
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
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wicket Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-20-07 12:03 AM
Response to Original message
8. K & R
:kick:
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bleever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-20-07 12:49 AM
Response to Original message
9. Of course they eavesdrop on all their enemies, and all their friends.
They're not thinking about politics; they're thinking (a la Rove) about THE politics.

That means being in a position to dictate not only to your foes, but your allies as well. An executive power that is unitary, as in "belonging to one".


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kestrel91316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-20-07 12:55 AM
Response to Original message
10. IMHO they spy on the Dems ALL THE TIME, and are blackmailing
enough of them to keep them from actually changing anything.

People want to know why the Dems are such panty-waists: surveillance and anthrax - that's why.
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Zywiec Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-20-07 08:54 AM
Response to Reply #10
20. Blackmail enough of them
to keep them from actually changing anything? What are they doing that could be subjected to blackmail. I would guess it's more about stealing policy ideas.

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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-20-07 09:09 AM
Response to Reply #10
21. Maybe they blackmailed McAuliffe into not securing election process in 2002 and 2004?
Edited on Sun May-20-07 09:09 AM by blm
Because in early 2001 he opened the Office of Voter Integrity to counter all the election fraud tactics we heard about in the 2000 election hearings, and then he never lifted another finger and the fraud in 2002 and 2004 was WORSE than ever.
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Mind_your_head Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-20-07 01:16 AM
Response to Original message
11. Oh hell....they were probably spying on Dems and conducting
intellectual espionage and corporate espionage. They were doing whatever THEY wanted! (it's all 'secret', ya know.... :eyes:) They rule the planet. (they just haven't quite yet got us 'proles' to 'know/sit in our place' just yet') ~ mebbe ANOTHER disaster (like 9/11?) will 'do' it, but, well mebbe it will just highlight 'incompetence to the bone' (most likely).

I was gonna end this with "G-d help us all", but that's not necessary when WE have the tools to help our own selves and STOP these mad men on our own. (Only call upon G-d when we're beyong helping our own selves? )

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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-20-07 04:25 AM
Response to Reply #11
14. Damned straight! What did God give us brains for, except to cry foul at
rightwing Bushite corporations "counting" all our votes with 'TRADE SECRET,' PROPRIETARY programming code--code so secret that not even our secretaries of state are permitted to review it--and virtually no audit/recount controls?

I mean, are we "intelligently designed" or not? I think it's kind of funny that the Bushites and their 'christian' nutballs think we are. How would they know? But, whoever did it--God, or Madame Evolution--we do have brains, right? --that can think things through from beginning to end?

And you don't even have to have much of a brain to figure this one out. Bushites "counting" all the votes with secret code? Aha! A fluorescent bulb lights up the circuitry.

Of course they are spying on, and blackmailing, everybody in DC, and threatening people, their own and others. They probably had a bug (or whatever they use these days) in Ashcroft's office, when he was talking to Comey about--as Comey put, in his testimony--"what they had learned" about "the program."

And of course they stole the 2004 election. What was the "trade secret" code FOR, if not to shove Bush, Cheney and Cabal, and their unjust, heinous war down our throats?

As for 2006, it's pretty obvious to me that the people, in their anger, outvoted the machines in some cases, trying to get themselves a half-decent Congress, and that's all that Diebold-ES&S would allow them--a HALF-decent Congress. But half-decent is not sufficient. And, lo and behold, with 75% of the American people opposed to the war and wanting it ended, they ESCALATE IT, and get yet more Iraqis and U.S. soldiers killed, and throw another hundred billion or so of our future tax dollars down that rathole of war profiteers.

But the interesting thing is that the great progressive American majority is alive and well, having survived six years of relentless, 24/7 fascist propaganda and warmongering. I only wish that the Democratic Party leadership deserved them--our stubborn, propaganda-resistant, peace-minded, justice-minded, generous, good hearted fellow and sister Americans, and the unstoppable grass roots workers and get-out-the-vote folks, who put the Democratic leadership in power. Truly, we do not know what our leaders are going through. There are many hidden things. But their mind-boggling approval of--and continued silence about--Diebold/ES&S "trade secret" vote counting makes you wonder about them. If they are suffering NSA spying and blackmail and threats, and don't have the Congressional votes to impeach these fuckers and stop their goddamned war, did they not bring it on themselves?
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-20-07 09:23 AM
Response to Reply #14
22. "And you don't even have to have much of a brain to figure this one out"
GREAT QUOTE!! I'm rather certain that the brain of the body politic will have completed the uptake on this one by week's end. A new consensus is fast emerging about the corruption and abuses of power, one of intolerance--and on the path to IMPEACHMENT like never before.
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-20-07 01:47 AM
Response to Original message
12. New Yorker: The Hidden Power = "Bush had secretly authorized the N.S.A. to eavesdrop"
Powell says it's Addington. I say don't blame the legal advisors for the actions of the Deciders. Blame them all, but do not ignore Bush while castigating Rove, and do not ignore Cheney while faulting Addington. We have seen this sort of "sacrificial lamb" tail too often, and it comes around again because fault seems to never reach to "The Decider." Who secretly authorizes the spying? Not the counsel!

================
The Hidden Power
by Jane Mayer July 3, 2006
http://www.newyorker.com/archive/2006/07/03/060703fa_fa...
LETTER FROM WASHINGTON about David Addington and the war on terror.

... Colin Powell commented privately on a recent report in the Times which revealed that Pres. Bush had secretly authorized the N.S.A. to eavesdrop on American citizens without first obtaining a warrant from the FISA court. “It's Addington,” Powell said. “He doesn't care about the Constitution.” He was referring to David S. Addington, Vice-President Cheney's chief of staff and his longtime legal adviser. Most Americans have never heard of him, but he has played a central role in shaping the Bush Administration's legal strategy for the war on terror. Known as the New Paradigm, this strategy rests on a reading of the Constitution that few legal scholars share-namely, that the President has the authority to disregard virtually all legal boundaries, if national security demands it. Under this framework, statutes prohibiting torture, secret detention, and warrantless surveillance have been set aside.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-20-07 01:49 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. Powell tried to bail on the My Lai massacre. What has changed
since then?
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bonito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-20-07 05:07 AM
Response to Original message
15. K&R
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-20-07 06:42 AM
Response to Original message
16. Feb. 2004. Hacker-Gate, "Republicans stole thousands of Democratic documents.."
This I posted in: Yesterday was a GREAT DAY for Falwell TO DIE. Or, the Buffalo Jump to Hell.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
a compilation of Bush scandals (in progress, so please contribute a few).

This alone is way worse than Watergate. In this case the criminals actually pulled off a
their "listening" program, instead of getting caught trying to bug the Dems. And, in retrospect
from several years later, the Department of Justice or the GOP Congressional leadership did NADA!!
So, do we have the proverbial crime of the cover-up to consider too?

=======================================
Dems: Stolen memo case should go to DOJ
by kos - Tue Feb 10, 2004 at 02:02:22 PM PDT
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/2/10/17222/9423

.... Senate Dems are now demanding a criminal investigation from the Department of Justice
after Republicans stole thousands of Democratic documents from a shared Justice committee server.

From the registration only Roll Call:

Key Senate Democrats predicted Monday that the internal investigation into the
Judiciary Committee's leaked memos would be turned into a full-blown criminal investigation.

Exiting a 90-minute briefing about the probe with Senate Sergeant-at-Arms Bill Pickle, a
quartet of senior Judiciary Democrats declared that what they had heard led them to believe
a criminal inquiry, most likely with the Justice Department handling it, should occur.

"Eventually, this has to be looked at as a criminal matter," said Sen. Patrick Leahy (D-Vt.)...

Leahy sat in on the Senators-only briefing with Sens. Edward Kennedy (D-Mass.), Dianne Feinstein
(D-Calif.) and Dick Durbin (D-Ill.), all of whom declined to speak of the details of where Pickle
stands in his three-month investigation ......

Republicans, in defending the theft, refer to the matter as a "technical glitch" and deny that the stolen memos amount to criminal wrongdoing .....
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ooglymoogly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-20-07 08:03 PM
Response to Reply #16
31. Excellent post
Edited on Sun May-20-07 08:23 PM by ooglymoogly
One question though....is Turdblossom a weed in this pars-lie garden or is the pars-lie garden an offshoot of the Turdblossom...or are they all just invasive poisonous weeds that are totally out of control but all of the same control sport? ...robot plants so to speak.
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-22-07 11:22 AM
Response to Reply #16
53. Uncensored 'Hackergate' Report Accidentally Released; Perps' Names Revealed
March 30, 2004
Uncensored 'Hackergate' Report Accidentally Released; Perps' Names Revealed
Report on the Investigation Into Improper Access to the Senate Judiciary Committee's Computer System (3/6/2004 - Cyptome)
http://www.subliminalnews.com/archives/000167.php

An uncensored version of the Senate Sergeant At Arms' report on his investigation into Republican hacking of sensitive Democrat computer servers was accidentally released to journalists on March 4. The 67-page report includes the names of the partisan cyber-thieves, other key figures on both sides of the scandal, and numerous footnotes that were redacted in the public version.

A copy of the full, uncensored report ( http://cryptome.org/judiciary-sys.htm ) is available at Cryptome.org, which highlights the previously censored sections in red text. A link to a PDF of the censored version ( http://www.calpundit.com/blogphotos/Pickle%20report.pdf ) is also provided.

It is unclear just how accidental the "accidental release" of the full report actually was. A letter issued by Orrin Hatch (R-Utah), who chairs the Judiciary Committee, said the release was due to "an administrative error" and that there "was no intention on anyone's part to release this version at this time..."

As reported by Subliminal News at the time ( http://www.subliminalnews.com/archives/000141.php ), the scandal -- now often referred to as "Hackergate" -- erupted publicly in late January, 2004, when the Boston Globe and other press outlets reported that Republican staff members of the US Senate Judiciary Commitee had secretly infiltrated Democrat computers for at least a year.

=========================
FULL REPORT:
http://cryptome.org/judiciary-sys.htm
PDF: http://www.calpundit.com/blogphotos/Pickle%20report.pdf

Joint Statement
Of Senate Judiciary Chairman Orrin Hatch, (R-Utah)
And Ranking Member Patrick Leahy (D-Vt.) ....................................

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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-22-07 11:42 AM
Response to Reply #53
54. Statement of Sen. Leahy: "right-wing activists ... spreading lies" & "proceed to closed session"
You have to wonder what happened in closed session, back before the "Chairman Leahy" era began.

=========================
Statement of The Honorable Patrick Leahy
United States Senator - Vermont ....
Senate Judiciary Committee
Executive Business Meeting
March 4, 2004

Just three weeks ago Members of the Committee were briefed by the Sergeant at Arms on the preliminary indications of his 3-month investigation into the theft of computer files of Democratic offices by staff working for Republican Members of this Committee. Yesterday afternoon the Sergeant at Arms briefed Senator Hatch and me, again, and provided us with a copy of his report.

I commend Sergeant at Arms William Pickle and his staff for their diligent work. He has invested tremendous effort and professionalism into this investigation into this unprecedented case of partisan spying in the Senate. This investigation was prompted by Republican staff's infiltration of Democratic staff's computer files, the stealing of those files and then the dissemination of them to sympathetic activists and columnists. We know this inquiry was an arduous undertaking that required a great deal of skill and sensitivity and commitment, and Mr. Pickle and his staff deserve credit for meeting that challenge as well as they did without having the authority to compel testimony or to prosecute.

Today we hope to work together to begin the process of public accountability by making public the overall findings of the inquiry to date. Chairman Hatch and I want to consult with the other Members of the Committee to make available to them the information we have received and with them to make available to the public information about this matter without undercutting or compromising further investigation. Senator Hatch and I hope to make information available to the public by close of business today. To do that we will need the cooperation of all Members of the Committee. I also thank the press and the public for their patience with us today.

Establishing the basic facts was the essential first step in solving this crisis of confidence. Mr. Pickle and his investigators have invested three months to do that. Other steps are ahead of us. There are still outstanding questions that demand answers. We still do not know the full extent to which these confidential files were disbursed, and to whom. We do not know how the information obtained was used, and by whom, in or outside the Senate. We do not know who at the Department of Justice or the White House benefited from this wrongdoing and worked with staff of these Republican offices or their intermediaries. We do not know whether nominees are implicated. We cannot repair the damage that has been done until we know the answers to these questions.

I have commented little on this serious and far-reaching matter. Even while right-wing activists have been spreading lies and making absurd charges, I have tried to show restraint as this investigation got underway. I repeat that those who spied and stole internal, confidential drafts and memos of their Democratic counterparts bring dishonor to this Committee and to the Senate. Taking things that do not belong to you is wrong, and there is no excusing or whitewashing it.

I commend Chairman Hatch for acknowledging that this conduct was unacceptable, improper and unethical. I have likewise commended Senator Graham and others who have acknowledged the wrongdoing by those Republican staff implicated in this matter.

By mid-February it became clear that not just dozens but thousands of computer files were involved, and that the secret surveillance of legitimate and indeed essential staff work took place from at least 2001 into 2003. It appears that those involved in this theft not only used what they found for their own partisan purposes, but also periodically passed along material to extreme, partisan, right-wing activists from outside organizations, and to hand-picked, Republican-leaning columnists and media organizations friendly to their "win-at-all-costs" crusade. The investigation itself was triggered last November when more than a dozen computer files were distributed to newspapers on the Republican right and were posted on a partisan advocacy group's website.

http://fairjudiciary.campsol.com/cfj_contents/press/col... [br />
The memos:

http://fairjudiciary.campsol.com/cfj_contents/press/jud... ]

Much remains to be learned about this breach. We still do not know who benefited from these thefts, how these computer files were used, and how and with whom they were shared inside or outside the Committee. We do not yet know for certain if judicial nominees who have passed through this Committee were coached for their hearings based on the stolen files or on information they contained. Over the last several days we have written to the White House and the Department of Justice inquiring what they knew about these matters. We do not have responsive answers to those inquiries.

What we do know is that all Members of this Committee thought their computer files were confidential. We do know that the confidentiality of our computer files was breached. This was wrongdoing by calculation and stealth, not by inadvertence or mistake. We know this was intentional, repeated, longstanding, systematic and malicious. We know this was carried on surreptitiously because those involved knew that what they were doing was wrong.

All Members of the Senate rely on the confidential reports and advice of their staff. The Senate could not fully operate in this modern world without being able to rely on our staff's research and analysis, which is now often prepared electronically, over computer systems under the control of the Sergeant at Arms. That expectation of privacy was clearly expressed by Republican and Democratic Members of this Committee in our brief discussions over the last couple of weeks. It is reflected in the joint letter Senator Hatch and I sent to GAO and in the letter Senators Cornyn, Craig, Chambliss, Graham and Sessions sent to the Sergeant at Arms on November 22 as his investigation was beginning.

Establishing full public accountability is the first step toward restoring the basic trust that is necessary for the Senate to function and fulfill its constitutional responsibilities. Prompt public dissemination of the basic findings of the Sergeant at Arms is a step in that direction.

It is time for the Committee to fulfill Senator Durbin's request of the past several weeks and to meet in closed session to discuss this matter and how we should proceed.

Accordingly, I move pursuant to Rule 26.5.b. to proceed to closed session as we will be discussing matters relating to matters of committee staff personnel and internal management and that discussion may “tend to charge an individual with crime or misconduct, to disgrace or injure the professional standing of an individual, or otherwise to expose an individual to public contempt or obloquy -- and will disclose information relating to the Sergeant at Arms' investigation, which may relate to the prosecution of a criminal offense and should be kept secret in the interests of effective law enforcement, and which may divulge matters required to be kept confidential under the rules of this Committee and the Senate.

# # # # #
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-22-07 12:15 PM
Response to Reply #53
55. Was the Senate File Pilfering Criminal? = Computer Fraud and Abuse Act (18 U.S.C. 1030)
Was the Senate File Pilfering Criminal?
Monday January 26, 2004 by Ed Felten
http://www.freedom-to-tinker.com/index.php?p=502


Some people have argued that the Senate file pilfering could not have violated the law, because the files were reportedly on a shared network drive that was not password-protected. (See, for instance, Jack Shafer’s Slate article.) Assuming those facts, were the accesses unlawful?

Here’s the relevant wording from the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act (18 U.S.C. 1030):

Whoever … intentionally accesses a computer without authorization or exceeds authorized access, and thereby obtains … information from any department or agency of the United States … shall be punished as provided in subsection (c) …



he term ‘’exceeds authorized access'’ means to access a computer with authorization and to use such access to obtain or alter information in the computer that the accesser is not entitled so to obtain or alter

To my non-lawyer’s eye, this looks like a judgment call. It seems not to matter that the files were on a shared server or that the staffers may have been entitled to access other files on that server.

The key issue is whether the staffers were “entitled to” access the particular files in question. And this issue, to me at least, doesn’t look clear-cut. The fact that it was easy to access the files isn’t dispositive — “entitled to access” is not the same as “able to access”. ...........

PLUS: 13 Responses to “Was the Senate File Pilfering Criminal?”
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-20-07 07:49 AM
Response to Original message
17. ACLU: The Government Is Spying on Americans
American Civil Liberties Union : Safe and Free : Spy Files
http://www.aclu.org/safefree/spyfiles/index.html

The Government Is Spying on Americans
Documents obtained by the ACLU under the Freedom of Information Act reveal that the FBI is using its Joint Terrorism Task Forces to gather extensive information about peaceful organizations. Recently, President Bush acknowledged giving explicit and secret authorization for warrantless electronic eavesdropping and physical searches by the NSA. There is proof that the Pentagon, too, is illegally gathering and sharing private and protected information.

The actions of the president, his administration, and these agencies are part of a broad pattern of disregard for the rule of law in the name of national security. The ACLU is calling for investigations and full disclosure of records to determine if oaths of office were broken or federal laws violated.

ARTICLES:

> NYCLU Releases RNC Documents That City Tried to Conceal (3/21/2007) - http://www.aclu.org/freespeech/republicannationalconven...
> Report Shows Widespread Pentagon Surveillance of Peace Activists (1/17/2007) - http://www.aclu.org/safefree/spyfiles/28024prs20070117....

REPORTS:

> Pentagon
Report Shows Widespread Pentagon Surveillance of Peace Activists
News reports and released documents have revealed the Pentagon is collecting information in a secret database on peace groups and law-abiding Americans who have attended anti-war protests. Read More >> http://www.aclu.org/safefree/spyfiles/28024prs20070117....

> NSA
White House Concedes Wiretapping Oversight to FISA
President Bush acknowledged authorizing the NSA to engage in warrantless electronic spying and physical searches of Americans. The ACLU is leading the challenge to stop this program. Read More >> http://www.aclu.org/safefree/nsaspying/28048prs20070117...

> FBI / JTTF
ACLU Calls for Repeal of Expanded Patriot Act Powers in Response to DoJ Report
The FBI has issued significantly more NSLs than previously disclosed. The report found serious breaches of department regulations and numerous potential violations of the law. Read More >> http://www.aclu.org/safefree/general/28954prs20070309.h...

Learn about the challenge to unchecked spying in your state >> http://www.aclu.org/spymap
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Breeze54 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-20-07 08:48 AM
Response to Original message
19. I think them spying on Dems has been a worry and suspected
for quite a long time!!! A-holes!
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GeorgeGist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-20-07 10:28 AM
Response to Original message
23. The Strategery Revealed ...
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Horse with no Name Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-20-07 10:31 AM
Response to Original message
24. I would bet money that they spied on Republicans too
To keep them toeing the party lines.
I bet they have at LEAST one embarrassing item on each person in Washington.
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Tara_NM Donating Member (89 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-20-07 10:10 PM
Response to Reply #24
33. I bet you are correct
It would fit into their pattern like the last piece of a puzzle fits.... perfectly!
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Vinnie From Indy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-20-07 01:01 PM
Response to Original message
28. Of course they were spying on Congress and anyone else considered a POLITICAL threat
One of the elephants in the room concerning this issue is the fact that the program must have been solely about domestic political spying if Ashcroft and Comey were so against it. There is no other reasonable explantion.
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-20-07 01:39 PM
Response to Reply #28
29. The President's Domestic Surveillance Program, Key News Articles, FRONTLINE VIDEO
They can't blame spying on the Judiciary Comm. on the hunt for terrorists. Gotcha, indeed!

I look forward to the details of how much spying was going on and by whom, Military, NSA, FBI, NRA, CIA, DEA, Border Patrol, Homeland Security Police, and who knows what secret agencies, and then who gained access to the data for what purposes.

This could be about the capture of ALL transmissions from the communications companies trunk lines by using a splitter. That is discussed in the FRONTLINE report, now online:

The Key News Articles - http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/homefront/etc/l...
The President's Domestic Surveillance Program

SPYING ON THE HOMEFRONT: Watch the entire 60 minute progam online: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/homefront/view /

MUST SEE and READ info well-organized and comprehensive material.
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MasonJar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-20-07 07:43 PM
Response to Original message
30. Does anyone on DU really doubt that the spying was directed
mainly toward opposition candidates? These "morans" do not care about terrorists or they would have captured bin Laden by now. Remember that when Kerry went to an election event, Bush often had one around the corner.
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-20-07 09:52 PM
Response to Original message
32. Bush admits he signed NSA wiretap order, OK'd program more than 30 times
Bush admits he signed NSA wiretap order
Adds he OK'd program more than 30 times, will continue to do so

Saturday, December 17, 2005; Posted: 8:07 p.m. EST (01:07 GMT)
http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/12/17/bush.nsa /

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- In acknowledging the message was true, President Bush took aim at the messenger Saturday, saying that a newspaper jeopardized national security by revealing that he authorized wiretaps on U.S. citizens ......

Bush added: "Yesterday the existence of this secret program was revealed ... our enemies have learned information they should not ...this effort damages our national security and puts our citizens at risk."

The NSA eavesdrops on billions of communications worldwide. ....

........ Sen. Russ Feingold, D-Wisconsin, said there was no law allowing the president's actions and that "it's a sad day."

"He's trying to claim somehow that the authorization for the Afghanistan attack after 9/11 permitted this, and that's just absurd," .......
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-20-07 10:37 PM
Response to Reply #32
34. Federal Court Strikes Down NSA Warrantless Surveillance Program (8/17/2006)
Federal Court Strikes Down NSA Warrantless Surveillance Program (8/17/2006)
http://www.aclu.org/safefree/nsaspying/26489prs20060817...

DETROIT -- In an American Civil Liberties Union case, a federal court today ruled that the Bush administration’s program to monitor the phone calls and e-mails of Americans without warrants is unconstitutional and must be stopped. This is the first ruling by a federal court to strike down the controversial National Security Agency surveillance program.

"Today’s ruling is a landmark victory against the abuse of power that has become the hallmark of the Bush administration," said Anthony D. Romero, Executive Director of the ACLU. "Government spying on innocent Americans without any kind of warrant and without Congressional approval runs counter to the very foundations of our democracy. Now Congress needs to do its job and stop the president from violating the law." ..........


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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-20-07 10:41 PM
Response to Original message
35. The End of Illegal Domestic Spying? Don't Count on It
UNDER SURVEILLANCE
The End of Illegal Domestic Spying? Don't Count on It
By Joe W. Pitts | March 15, 2007
http://www.washingtonspectator.com/articles/20070315sur...


Americans of all persuasions were shocked by the revelations, first reported in the New York Times in December of 2005, that President Bush had authorized the National Security Agency (NSA) to eavesdrop secretly for years on the calls and e-mails of American citizens, bypassing the warrants required by the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA) and the U.S. Constitution's Fourth Amendment. The administration's decision, in January, to subject the NSA program to review by the special FISA court, supposedly ending the controversial warrantless surveillance, was reported as a stunning and welcome reversal.

Yet the surveillance program isn't the only thing now "warranted"; so is skepticism about the administration's change of heart. The superficial change-back to FISA control merely masks more deeply hidden examples of secrecy and deception in the concerted attack on American constitutional values. Whether manifest in the Scooter Libby verdict, the recent scandalous disclosures that National Security Letters (NSLs) have been deceptively and illegally used by the FBI to spy on unsuspecting Americans, or in these NSA programs, this attack on our constitutional core demands a vigorous response. ......
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-21-07 07:45 AM
Response to Original message
36. Another week reveals more lapses in judgment by the Bush team
Will Gonzolies be dis-barred in Texas?

===================
Getting in Deeper...
Another week reveals more lapses in judgment by the Bush team
By Chitra Ragavan
Posted 5/20/07
http://www.usnews.com/usnews/news/articles/070520/28jus...

For months, congressional Democrats have tried to force embattled Attorney General Alberto Gonzales out of his job by using what one congressional source called "conventional weapons" ..... But last week, the committee investigating the firings detonated what the same source called a "thermonuclear device." And in doing so, they have put Gonzales's future in serious doubt.

Bedside drama. The bomb in question is James Comey, a highly regarded former deputy attorney general who dramatically described Gonzales's dark role in reauthorizing the National Security Agency's secret wiretap program. ..........

......congressional sources tell U.S. News that Democrats will ask the Texas Bar Association to determine whether Gonzales violated his code of professional responsibility or broke laws by bringing up the NSA program in the hospital in front of Ashcroft's wife, who lacks security clearances. "I am not going to speculate on discussions that may or may not have taken place," Justice Department spokesman Dean Boyd responded, "much less attempt to render a legal judgment on any such discussions." ..........
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-21-07 10:20 AM
Response to Original message
37. Comey & Phone Companies' Role in the NSA Program = illegal wiretaps
Comey and the Phone Companies' Role in the NSA Program
by Shayana Kadidal
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/shayana-kadidal/comey-and...

On Friday, professional administration apologist Douglas Kmiec published an op-ed in the Washington Post (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/20... ) in which he criticizes former Deputy AG James Comey's testimony (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/shayana-kadidal/what-does... ) as "staggeringly histrionic," claims the media's analogies between the threatened mass resignations (of Comey, Ashcroft and FBI Director Mueller) to Watergate's Friday Night Massacre are absurd, and then (correctly) notes that the president, not the Attorney General or anyone else in DOJ, has the last word on exactly which interpretation of federal laws the rest of the executive branch will follow.

.............Professor Lederman provides is that "the signature might have been necessary to induce the requisite private actors -- telecom companies in particular -- to continue to go along with the program."............

..... the Wiretap Act contains a section, 18 USC 2511(2)(a)(ii), that allows telecom providers and other private parties (e.g. your landlord) to help the government carry out electronic surveillance if those private parties have been "provided with ... a court order" or "a certification in writing by ... the Attorney General of the United States that no warrant or court order is required by law, that all statutory requirements have been met, and that the specified assistance is required."

So, the government can go to AT&T with a court order -- a warrant -- allowing the government to put a wiretap in place, and AT&T is allowed to help them without such help subjecting AT&T to criminal or civil liability under the various wiretapping laws. ..................
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-21-07 01:23 PM
Response to Reply #37
42. James B. Comey has made a remarkable amount of trouble for the White House
Loyal to Bush but Big Thorn in Republicans’ Side
By SCOTT SHANE and DAVID JOHNSTON
Published: May 17, 2007
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/17/washington/17comey.ht...

WASHINGTON, May 16 — For a loyal George W. Bush Republican, James B. Comey has made a remarkable amount of trouble for the White House.

As deputy attorney general in 2003, he appointed his old friend Patrick J. Fitzgerald as independent counsel in the C.I.A. leak case, ....

In 2004, he backed Justice Department subordinates who withdrew a legal memorandum justifying harsh interrogations of suspected terrorists.
....he publicly praised several United States attorneys who had been dismissed.....

Finally, at a Senate hearing on Tuesday, Mr. Comey gave a riveting account of how he intervened in 2004 at the hospital bedside of Attorney General John Ashcroft to prevent two top White House officials from persuading Mr. Ashcroft to reauthorize the National Security Agency’s domestic eavesdropping program.......
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-21-07 10:42 AM
Response to Original message
38. "Bush was very clear that 'a wiretap requires a court order...' " Caught LYING??
The Wiretap Research Page
http://www.thisiswiretap.com /

Back in 2004, George W. Bush was caught on camera explaining very carefully that the government always requires a court order when "chasing down terrorists." Trying to sell the Patriot Act - which he wanted renewed but which was coming under increasing fire from all sides of the political spectrum - Bush was very clear that "a wiretap requires a court order. Nothing has changed, by the way." By that, he meant that neither the Patriot Act nor its ostensible cause - the 9/11 terrorist attacks - changed the absolute legal requirement for the government to get a court order before ordering wiretaps against suspected terrorists.

(One interesting side note: Bush continually refers to ordering wiretaps against "terrorists" - not suspects. This is highly revealing of his mindset: anyone who is suspected of being a terrorist automatically IS a terrorist. This mindset has permeated the entire military and security apparatus: that's why countless innocent people have been jailed and tortured around the world: because all suspects are regarded as guilty ....

.............But this week, Bush has outed himself as a liar. He has admitted - even boasted - of his secret spy program that operated without any warrants or any recourse to judicial oversight whatsoever - not even the FISA program which could have given him the broadest possible scope to order wiretaps and surveillance .................
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-21-07 10:55 AM
Response to Original message
39. President Bush’s Illegal Domestic Spying Program: Overview
President Bush’s Illegal Domestic Spying Program: A Brief Overview
http://www.pfaw.org/pfaw/general/default.aspx?oId=20427

Produced by People For the American Way Foundation
On December 16, The New York Times, citing anonymous sources, reported that President Bush had signed a secret executive order authorizing the National Security Agency to conduct warrantless electronic eavesdropping on persons within the United States. The Bush administration has since confirmed the accuracy of this report.

What’s wrong with that?

It’s against the law. ..................

Where can I learn more?

The Congressional Research Service report (available at http://www.fas.org/irp/agency/doj/fisa /) is a great place to start. Or read People For the American Way’s “Illegal NSA Spying Program Myths and Facts” guide (available at http://media.pfaw.org/NSA_myths_and_facts_2-3-2006.pdf ).
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-21-07 01:08 PM
Response to Reply #39
40. What other programs are the NSA geeks runnning? = "illegal domestic data-trawling"
What other programs are the NSA geeks runnning?
By fazzaz31
http://warrenreports.tpmcafe.com/blog/fazzaz31/2007/may...

Pundits worldwide are wondering just what other programs the NSA might have running ... we need to know a little about how the NSA works ....

.... NSA is chartered by the National Security Act of 1947 ... to conduct foreign military sigint (signal intelligence) only, but may assist civilian law enforcement officials thus ....

.....Broadly speaking, NSA has two jobs: 1) intercept foreign military communications, and 2) decipher code. .... FISA was later specifically crafted to allow them to listen domestically when the origination point was either domestic or foreign, as long as there was some foreign node involved, but only with a warrant, eg, a FISA warrant.......

.........In the past, NSA was almost completely inactive domestically, which is why they recently had to build those switching rooms in AT&T's San Francisco and St Louis facilities.........the only reason for a tap in St Louis is to monitor US interstate phone and e-mail traffic, and that means illegal domestic data-trawling, no matter how they parse it.

.........LONG ARTICLE..............
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Norquist Nemesis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-21-07 01:12 PM
Response to Original message
41. The "Program" wasn't needed after November 2004
That's why it was voluntarily stopped by Bushetals. Once the election was over and as long as Congress remained with GOP control, there was no more need for the "survellience program."
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-21-07 01:25 PM
Response to Reply #41
43. Once a good timeline evolves, this juncture should get real scrutiny
This is a point worthy of investigation. How does that critical day play in other scenarios?
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-21-07 01:49 PM
Response to Original message
44. What Does Comey's Testimony Tell Us about the NSA Program?
What Does Comey's Testimony Tell Us about the NSA Program? (15 comments )
Shayana Kadidal - 05.17.2007
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/shayana-kadidal/what-does...

The astonishing story of Alberto Gonzales' March 2004 bedside visit with John Ashcroft ... former Deputy Attorney General James Comey's riveting testimony before the Senate Judiciary Committee ....
(The whole video is here http://www.alternet.org/blogs/video/51973 /
and the transcript is here. http://gulcfac.typepad.com/georgetown_university_law/fi...
The New York Times' account of the testimony is here, http://www.nytimes.com/2006/01/01/politics/01spy.html?p...
and Dahlia Lithwick's is here, http://www.slate.com/id/2166213 /

the whole thing is worth watching/reading.) Here's my 10-cent summary: ............Comey --an outstanding career prosecutor, not a "Bushie," who'd joined the AG's staff in 2003-- had serious misgivings about the legality of the NSA program, doubts shared by other non-partisan-hack lawyers who'd come to DOJ.........Comey decided he wouldn't reauthorize it....Afterwards, Card ... orders Comey over to the White House; Comey refuses unless Solicitor General Ted Olsen is present as a witness. Olson is dragged out of a dinner party and heads to the White House with Comey. ...

.....There's been a ton of fascinating speculation (here,http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2007/05/16/nsa_c... / here http://volokh.com/archives/archive_2007_05_13-2007_05_1... and here http://balkin.blogspot.com/2007/05/can-you-even-imagine... ) about what this dispute was about on the merits (Comey, of course, can't speak about that). A number of commentators point out that in late 2003 a new set of DOJ and Office of Legal Council lawyers was replacing the group (Yoo, Bybee, Delahunty) that authored the torture memos and other documents setting forth a theory of uncheckable Presidential power...........

..........................

=========
READ MORE: National Security Agency http://www.huffingtonpost.com/people/National+Security+...
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-21-07 02:12 PM
Response to Original message
45. "... NSA warrantless wiretapping of certain attorneys representing men detained at Guantánamo..."
CCR FILES FOIA LAWSUIT AGAINST NSA AND DOJ DEMANDING INFORMATION ON WARRANTLESS SPYING OF GUANTÁNAMO ATTORNEYS
Lawsuit filed due to government’s refusal to turn over documents through FOIA requests
http://www.ccr-ny.org/v2/reports/report.asp?ObjID=0B8U2...

FOIA complaint = http://ccr-ny.org/v2/reports/docs/FOIA_NSA_complaint.pd...

....On May 17, 2007, the Center for Constitutional Rights (CCR) filed a Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) lawsuit against the National Security Agency (NSA) and the Department of Justice (DOJ) demanding that the government comply with requests to turn over all records of NSA warrantless wiretapping of certain attorneys representing men detained at Guantánamo.

The lawsuit, Wilner v. NSA, was filed in the U.S. District Court for the Southern District of New York on behalf of 16 attorneys. The plaintiffs - including CCR staff attorneys Gitanjali Gutierrez and Wells Dixon as well as law professors and partners at prominent international law firms - represent detainees at Guantánamo Bay, Cuba and may have been the subjects of the NSA's warrantless wiretapping program that began shortly after September 11, 2001.

(Case summary of Wilner v. NSA http://www.ccr-ny.org/v2/legal/september_11th/sept11Art... )

.........We have always believed that the primary reason administration officials decided not to use the FISA statute to get warrants for the NSA program is because they wanted to target conversations even the FISA court wouldn't have approved of, such as attorneys speaking to their clients," said Shayana Kadidal, CCR managing attorney for the Guantánamo Global Justice Initiative. "The government asserts - generally without a shred of evidence - that many of our clients are linked to terrorism. They've said the NSA program targets calls between Americans and foreigners linked to terrorism, and they've told Congress that they won't rule out listening to lawyers. ..........
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marlakay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-21-07 02:18 PM
Response to Original message
46. If so, same as watergate and these guys are much worse
Impeaching them isn't good enough for me. I want all of them in jail for the rest of their lives, and not a golf course one either. A regular federal prison with no frills and getting beaten and raped. Thats what they deserve...

and believe it or not...I am a very compassionate caring person...but they are evil and must be punished so the world sees not to repeat this again.
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-21-07 02:23 PM
Response to Original message
47. What Was "The Program" Before Goldsmith and Comey? = among the theories
Edited on Mon May-21-07 02:23 PM by L. Coyote
Thursday, May 17, 2007
What Was "The Program" Before Goldsmith and Comey?
Marty Lederman
http://balkin.blogspot.com/2007/05/what-was-program-bef...

"We're doing what?"

That's a quotation from the original Risen & Lichtblau New York Times article that broke the unlawful wiretapping story.....

What, indeed, was the nature of the "program" before Goldsmith, Comey and Ashcroft -- those notorious civil libertarian extremists -- called a halt to it, and threatened to resign if the President continued to break the law? And what was the nature and breadth of its legal justification? .....

........Was it a full-bore data-mining program of some sort, akin to the TIA program that Congress had de-funded? (John Yoo suggests as much in his new book.) Something involving the FBI as well as the NSA (hence the central role of the FBI Director in the Comey narrative)? .......

These are among the theories receiving a good deal of speculation this evening. There's a lot of great stuff to read -- this is just the tip of the iceberg: ..................

Glenn Greenwald. http://salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2007/05/16/nsa_comey /

Laura Rozen. http://www.warandpiece.com/blogdirs/006129.html

Orin Kerr. http://volokh.com/archives/archive_2007_05_13-2007_05_1...

Hilzoy. http://obsidianwings.blogs.com/obsidian_wings/2007/05/c...

Shayana Kadidal. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/shayana-kadidal/what-does...

Paul Kiel, doing so much fine work over at the now-indispensible TPM Muckraker, including the publication of one reader's speculation. http://www.tpmmuckraker.com/archives/003232.php#more

Anonymous Liberal. http://www.anonymousliberal.com/2007/05/what-changes-we...

In that last post, A.L. wisely goes back to the Risen & Lichtblau story that started it all, which contains some important potential clues. Important excerpts .................
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-21-07 02:34 PM
Response to Reply #47
48. DEC. 16, 2005 NY TIMES breaks story: Bush Lets NSA Spy in USA Without Warrants
Edited on Mon May-21-07 02:35 PM by L. Coyote
December 16, 2005
Bush Lets U.S. Spy on Callers Without Courts
By JAMES RISEN and ERIC LICHTBLAU
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/12/16/politics/16program.ht...


WASHINGTON, Dec. 15 - Months after the Sept. 11 attacks, President Bush secretly authorized the National Security Agency to eavesdrop on Americans and others inside the United States to search for evidence of terrorist activity without the court-approved warrants ordinarily required for domestic spying, according to government officials.

Under a presidential order signed in 2002, the intelligence agency has monitored the international telephone calls and international e-mail messages of hundreds, perhaps thousands, of people inside the United States without warrants over the past three years ........

..........The White House asked The New York Times not to publish this article, arguing that it could jeopardize continuing investigations and alert would-be terrorists that they might be under scrutiny. After meeting with senior administration officials to hear their concerns, the newspaper delayed publication for a year to conduct additional reporting. Some information that administration officials argued could be useful to terrorists has been omitted...........

.........officials familiar with it say the N.S.A. eavesdrops without warrants on up to 500 people in the United States at any given time. The list changes as some names are added and others dropped...........

Mr. Bush's executive order allowing some warrantless eavesdropping on those inside the United States - including American citizens, permanent legal residents, tourists and other foreigners - is based on classified legal opinions that assert that the president has broad powers to order such searches, derived in part from the September 2001 Congressional resolution authorizing him to wage war on Al Qaeda and other terrorist groups, according to the officials familiar with the N.S.A. operation.

The National Security Agency, which is based at Fort Meade, Md., is the nation's largest and most secretive intelligence agency, so intent on remaining out of public view that it has long been nicknamed "No Such Agency." .........
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-21-07 07:13 PM
Response to Original message
49. Bush administration's FISA falsehoods continue unabated "... just flat-out lies..."
The administration's FISA falsehoods continue unabated
Glenn Greenwald
Monday May 21, 2007 07:40 EST
http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2007/05/21/fisa_...


Mike McConnell, the Bush administration's Director of National Intelligence, has a remarkably dishonest Op-Ed in The Washington Post this morning, in which he argues for completely unspecified "updates" and "changes" to FISA in order to expand -- yet again -- the Government's powers of eavesdropping on Americans. McConnell's entire argument for expansion of surveillance powers rests on a patent falsehood. ........

Many of these statements are highly misleading, as they strongly imply that FISA has not been amended since it was first enacted 30 years ago. But several of the statements -- such as: "the law has not been changed to reflect technological advancements" -- are just flat-out lies...........
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McCamy Taylor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-21-07 08:03 PM
Response to Original message
50. I believe they spied on 60 Minutes and got a fax of the Bush AWOL document before show time.
Recall that in her book, Mary Mapes points out that the GOP activist "Buckhead" (really attorney Harry MacDougal) who pretended to be an expert on typewriters over at the Free Republic based all of his analysis of the documents' validity on a faxed copy of the Bush awol memo. As Mapes shows in her book, the faxing process changes the type characteristics in a way that makes it seem that it comes from a computer or modern source. I believe it is possible that phone calls containing these documents in fax form were intercepted by the re-elect Bush-Cheney Team, the faxed copies were shown to credible experts who said that faxes could not be veried but that being faxes they did not look authentic. Since no real expert would make an opinion about the authenticity of faxes, Karl Rove got the GOP attorney to pretend to be an expert and post his "findings" at DU in order to discredit the whole Bush AWOL story---a story that was patently true.

Why faxes? If this was an inside job, if someone at CBS leaked the documents, why not copy them with a scanner to get better copies that an expert could really examine? Faxes are what a wiretap would give you.

Has anyone figured out how MacDougal got his hands on faxed copies of the Bush AWOL documents when he did? Maybe Congress should summon him and ask him?

Anyway, this is what I posted over on my website, Grand Theft Election Ohio about the subject last year. I call it "Party Like Its 1984."

http://www.grandtheftelectionohio.com/060513.htm
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Imagevision Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-21-07 08:16 PM
Response to Original message
51. I've been told this is the reason Rove cannot hand over copies of his emails
this is similar to Nixon's missing 18 minutes of tape
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-22-07 08:36 AM
Response to Reply #51
52. No doubt the degree of politization will be seen in Rove's e-activity. Also
it would be a mistake to think that only the NSA should be a focus of the "Did Bushco use USG to Spy on the Dems?" question. We know it wasn't the NSA doing the spying in the Halls of Congress.

The list of plausible spooks to consider might be rather long, FBI, CIA, police departments, Homeland Security, Military Intelligence ....

Where is all the data captured during all the spying? And, who controls access?

Unlike the missing 18 minutes, this question deals with three plus years of recording all communications!!
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-23-07 07:41 AM
Response to Original message
56. NSA Whistleblower Alleges Illegal Spying = NSA AND Defense!!
Edited on Wed May-23-07 07:45 AM by L. Coyote
Noteworthy herein is Tice's mention of both NSA and Defense. So Defense was also doing illegal spying????
Rumsfeld could be a target?? And Bush has not addressed how Defense spying was authorized. Maybe it was not.

========================================
NSA Whistleblower Alleges Illegal Spying
Former Employee Admits to Being a Source for The New York Times
http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/Investigation/story?id=149188...
By BRIAN ROSS
Jan. 10, 2006

Russell Tice, a longtime insider at the National Security Agency, is now a whistleblower the agency would like to keep quiet.

For 20 years, Tice worked in the shadows as he helped the United States spy on other people's conversations around the world.

"I specialized in what's called special access programs," Tice said of his job. "We called them 'black world' programs and operations."

But now, Tice tells ABC News that some of those secret "black world" operations run by the NSA were operated in ways that he believes violated the law. He is prepared to tell Congress all he knows about the alleged wrongdoing in these programs run by the Defense Department and the NSA .........

Tice ... says the number of Americans subject to eavesdropping by the NSA could be in the millions if the full range of secret NSA programs is used.......
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-23-07 07:56 AM
Response to Reply #56
57. President Bush personally summoned the paper’s publisher
Edited on Wed May-23-07 08:00 AM by L. Coyote
Obstructing Justice?? NY Times withheld info before 2004 election about Bush's impeachable offenses. Unbelievable in a "democracy."

This report also reflects how many actors/agencies were involved in the illegalities: FBI, DIA, Homeland Security, CIA, more...

========================
Tuesday, January 3rd, 2006
EXCLUSIVE: National Security Agency Whistleblower Warns Domestic Spying Program Is Sign the U.S. is Decaying Into a “Police State”
http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=06/01/03/143...

Listen to Segment
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..... growing controversy over President Bush’s decision to order the National Security Agency to eavesdrop on U.S. citizens inside the country without the legally required court warrants. Bush’s decision was first revealed in the New York Times in mid-December. The Times published the expose after holding the story for more than a year under pressure from the White House. The paper reportedly first uncovered the illegal order prior to the 2004 election. When the editors at the Times decided last month to go ahead with the article, President Bush personally summoned the paper’s publisher, Arthur Sulzberger, and executive editor, Bill Keller, to the Oval Office in an attempt to talk them out of running the story. Since the story broke, calls for Congressional hearings and the possible impeachment of the president have intensified. Conservative legal experts have even admitted Bush may have committed an impeachable offense by ordering the NSA to break the law.

................the Washington Post is reporting that the NSA passed on records of intercepted email and phone calls to other government agencies including the FBI, the Defense Intelligence Agency, the CIA and the Department of Homeland Security. This news come on the heels of several other reports that the FBI’s Joint Terrorism Task Force, military intelligence and local police departments have all been engaged in monitoring peaceful groups including Greenpeace, PETA - the People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals, Catholic Worker, anti-war groups and even bicyclists in New York City........
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-23-07 08:10 AM
Response to Reply #56
58. The programs ... made public so far... just the tip of the iceberg...
Inside the Puzzle Palace
A Reason interview with NSA whistleblower Russell Tice
Julian Sanchez | January 13, 2006
http://www.reason.com/news/show/33016.html


In December, New York Times reporters James Risen and Eric Lichtblau commandeered the news cycle with the revelation that President Bush had approved a program of warrantless wiretaps of domestic-to-international communications by the super-secretive National Security Agency. Days later, they disclosed that the NSA's electronic eavesdropping may have been far more extensive than initial reports suggested, involving the harvesting of enormous volumes of telcommunications data for analysis.

.......... The programs that have been made public so far, according to Tice, are just the tip of the iceberg. .....

....I'm referring to what I need to tell Congress that no one knows yet, which is only tertiarily connected to what you know about now.

REASON: What aspect of that, within the parameters of what you're able to talk about, concerned you?

Tice: The lack of oversight, mainly—when a problem arose and I raised concerns, the total lack of concern that anyone could be held accountable for any illegality involved. And then these things are so deep black, the extremely sensitive programs that I was a specialist in, these things are so deep black that only a minute few people are cleared for these things. So even if you have a concern, it's things in many cases your own supervisor isn't cleared for. So you have literally nowhere to go. ...

Tice: In my case, there's no way the programs I want to talk to Congress about should be public ever, unless maybe in 200 years they want to declassify them. You should never learn about it; no one at the Times should ever learn about these things. But that same mechanism that allows you to have a program like this at an extremely high, sensitive classification level could also be used to mask illegality, like spying on Americans. And spying on Americans is illegal unless you go to a FISA court. It's the job of the FBI to conduct operations against Americans with the proper court warrants.....
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-23-07 09:38 AM
Response to Original message
59. Security Voices Against President Bush's Warrantless NSA Domestic Wiretap Program
Security Voices Against President Bush's Warrantless NSA Domestic Wiretap Program
Last updated: March 9, 2006
http://www.aclu.org/safefree/nsaspying/24171leg20060201...


David Kris, former Associate Deputy Attorney General dealing with national security issues for the Bush administration, 2000-2003 (“Legal Rationale for Spy Program Question,” Associated Press, 3/09/06)

“Claims that FISA simply requires too much paperwork or the bothersome marshaling of arguments seem relatively weak justifications for resorting to constitutional powers in ‘violation of the statute’”

In an email to an aid of Attorney General Alberto Gonzales concerning the white paper Gonzales sent to Congress:

“I kind of doubt it’s going to bring me around on the statutory arguments… but you never know, and in any event I can respect the analysis even if I don’t fully agree.”

(“Ex-Justice Lawyer Rips Case for Spying,” Washington Post, 3/09/06)

“In sum, I do not believe the statutory law will bear the government’s weight…. I do not think Congress can be said to have authorized the NSA surveillance.”

Christopher Pyle, a former intelligence officer (“Checking big Brother,” American Prospect, 1/20/06)

“Whatever their excuse, one thing is clear: These domestic spies are eager to add to, not subtract from, their files and lists. If a suspect shares your name, you are likely to be stopped at the airport, rejected for employment, or denied a security clearance, over and over again. Unfortunately, there is no way to correct such an erroneous file, because the files are secret. And, even if the files of one agency could be corrected, the files of the hundreds, perhaps thousands, of other agencies on the network would still be infected. Years later, when the network is queried, the original error will come back as a hundredfold ‘truth,’ simply because so many agencies believe it.”

“The time has come to scale back this bloated system, before intelligence analysts drown in trivia, before the reputations of decent citizens are destroyed, and before the sheer scale of the spying intimidates Americans from ever questioning their government.”

...............
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